i heard this...and THEN susan collins steps up and agrees 100% with the 4 wars analogy...
as in...
'OH YAH I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING"

Does this mean we get a fifth war (Iran) free?

There's a name for that- anarchy.

I have always found wars cheaper by the dozen.

So far according to my calculations the war has cost every man woman and child over 1200 dollars.

It is an investment in our future ,.. for sure :(

I didn't see the grilling, but I think this assessment is actually correct in principle (Gates might be ducking and weaving by not invoking the "civil war spectre"). I don't think we have a plain vanilla civil war going on here because the ultimate elements are not "state-ist" in nature; some of them are, and perhaps most of them are, but the ultimate goal, among the rank and file is not control of the state - more like settling old scores.

What I think, and what I think Gates is saying, is that we actually have a general state of lawlessness, where the state does not have a monopoly on the use of violence. There is nothing "civil" per se, in the nature of the violence. "The law" is in the hands of many non-state elements, i.e. militias, some of whom have infiltrated the state as a means of better access to those they wish to slaughter - all of whom have agendas they want to enforce, and vendettas they want to resolve - which go back decades, centruies even.

Either way, we are picking nits in trying to come up with a label, as the violence that the administration permitted to get out of control through his many blunders, is not the sort of violence that our military can counter.

I still argue for federalism, and U.S. forces drawing back to a border control position in order to (a) contain the violence, and (b) keep the other regional skunks out of the ring. If the Iraqis want their civil war, they have every right to it - just not at the expense of U.S. lives and capital.

Any conflict will have among its many elements, groups of people attempting to stake out political territory before things get semi-frozen by a cease-fire. This black and white element easily gets blurred by other elements, settling debts, revenge, providing neighborhood protection (gangs), bolstering "leaders" egos and most important, repelling the invaders leaving our mentally challenged "leader" quite literally at a loss for words.

The hoops this administration goes through to avoid certain target phrases (civil war would be one) would be somewhat entertaining if people were not dying. That this administration plays word games during such a deadly enterprise is criminal and evil. I am against capital punishment but, I might look away this time.