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Two weeks ago, the Bush administration organized an intelligence briefing for journalists in Iraq to demonstrate that Iran was providing weapons to Iraqi insurgents. According to the anonymous briefers, the weapons -- particularly explosively formed penetrators or E.F.P.s -- were manufactured in Iran and provided to insurgents by the Quds Force -- a fact that meant direction for the operation was “coming from the highest levels of the Iranian government.”

Well. A raid in southern Iraq on Saturday seems to have complicated the case. There, The Wall Street Journal reports (sub. req.), troops "uncovered a makeshift factory used to construct advanced roadside bombs that the U.S. had thought were made only in Iran." The main feature of the find were several copper liners that are the main component of EFPs. But, The New York Times reports, "while the find gave experts much more information on the makings of the E.F.P.’s, which the American military has repeatedly argued must originate in Iran, the cache also included items that appeared to cloud the issue."

Among those cloudy items were "cardboard boxes of the gray plastic PVC tubes used to make the canisters. The boxes appeared to contain shipments of tubes directly from factories in the Middle East, none of them in Iran."

Possibly, the Times muses, "the parts were purchased on the open market" and then "the liners were then manufactured to the right size to cap the fittings."

But where were the liners made? The Army captain who led the raid doesn't know. From the Journal:

Capt. [Clayton] Combs said the copper caps were smooth and perfectly symmetrical, suggesting they had been made with a high degree of technical precision. He said he didn't know where the caps came from or whether they had been made in Iran. "That's the hard thing about this war," he said.

348 Comments

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Copper bowls have been made in the Mid East...
since the before the Bronze age. Who do they think we all are total fools?

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you don't have to fool all the people all of the time, just enough of them to ram through your agenda...

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Yes, They think we are fools. That is why they pictures they supplied earlier as proof of Iran weapons were the same pictures the for years have been in the Army training material and videos for IEDs.

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what do you want to bet they were bought in a shipment of ten thousand from a company that makes copper fittings......

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The ones they need to fool are the media reporters who have no knowledge of anything and are feed the information and then repeat it word for word.

The reporters are fools and tools of the Bush administration.

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Here is a good link on this subject at Newshog:

http://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/2007/02/question-evidence-as-well-as-arguments.html

The reality appears to be that any competent machinist in the Third World could assemble a workable, though perhaps crude, EFP.

Most parts are off-the-shelf: i.e., C4 explosive, PVC or metal pipes, and detonators. The most complicated part is machining the copper "liner." But surely by now the appropriate dimensions for the concave liner are well known amongst Shiite militias. Sunni jihadists in Iraq and Afghanistan will not be far behind. At perhaps $30 per EFP, the relative cost of the weapon compared to its targets is miniscule and dramatically in favor of the users of EFPs.

Several EFPs can be arrayed horizontally to fire a salvo and can have an effective range of up to 100 yards. It is an ideal defensive weapon for urban warfare.

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"a company that makes copper fittings....."

remind me what that reference is to?

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...even if we allow the rather idiotic premise that Iran is the only Middle Eastern country which has the not-very-sophisticated industrial capability of manufacturing such copper disks, so what? It is to be expected that Iran, or factions inside Iran (with or without government sanction), would sell arms or munitions or other items which could go into the making of munitions, to their Iraqi Shiite cousins. The motive could be simply profit, or to cause trouble for the Americans, or both. Iran has American troops on two of its borders. It's called proxy warfare.

When we were arming the Afghani mujahideen with Stinger missiles, the USSR never considered that an overt act of war by the US against the Soviet Union. The (hypothetical) fact that some Iranians - again, either with or without government sanction - might be selling arms or items that could be used to make arms to Iraqis, is hardly a causus belli.

I think we have enough wars on our hands already - is the Bush administration trying to go 0-3 in the Middle East?

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Patrick Cockburn of the Independent newspaper has reported that the US raided a Baghdad warehouse in November that was used to manufacture EFP's. They confiscated a large quantity of the shaped copper projectiles which the US military claims cannot be manufactured in Iraq and therefore must come from Iran. Absolutely nothing the Bush administration says can be believed.

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If congress can just keep Bush and Cheney from going of the deep end again using fabricated intelligence, their lies, such as Iran is providing EFPs, will be debunked.

Impeach the little woodenhead (Bush) before it is too late.

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This is the smoking gun.

"The boxes appeared to contain shipments of tubes directly from factories in the Middle East"

To all but the most biased observer (or perhaps the French) this is clear evidence of external meddling in Iraq. The idea that these PVC tubes, which are of no use other than the construction of IEDs (and plumbing) could have been shipped without knowledge and involvement of the highest levels of the authoritarian governments of these states is ludicrous.

"One box said in English that the tubes inside had been made in the United Arab Emirates and another said, in Arabic, "plastic made in Haditha," a restive Sunni town on the Euphrates River in Iraq."

Clearly, we must hold the leaders of the UAE and...um...Iraq... responsible for the turmoil in...um...Iraq.

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That is a small and portable artillery weapon designed by Alford Technologies, called a Krakatoa. Theyre used by by US Special Forces. The designer is named Dr. Sidney Alford. The copper liner actually becomes a molten bullet when the C4 packed behind it is detonated. It is a fearsome fearsome weapon.

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Fox had pictures of an uncovered weapons cache on tv yesterday--stacks of pvc pipes, the copper caps the article talks about.

They said it was buried in a palm grove and a tip had been phoned in by a local resident.

What I found interesting was an orange (electrical?) box with the word "Switch" printed on it in english.

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We must keep this lunatic in the whitehouse in check until the election.By electing a person with an intellect higher than a fifth grader, we can get our country back to where we are respected and believed by the world community.

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This has all the appearances that the human-animal hybrid duo of the Chimp-in-Charge and the Penguin are ticked-off that Shia are buying components locally in an attempt to stimulate the local ecomony . . . While the Sunnis use their Saudi stipends purcahsing the components of their E.F.P.'s from the Caryle Group and Haliburton.

The USA has gotta stop buying all our Middle East intell from covert operations sponsored by Bandar Bush. This is very embarassing.

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Has anyone checked to see if one could download the blue-prints and specs for E.F.P.'s from DoD web-site . . . Just like the nuclear bombs a coupla months ago . . .?

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"The (hypothetical) fact that some Iranians - again, either with or without government sanction - might be selling arms or items that could be used to make arms to Iraqis, is hardly a causus belli."

That's a losing argument and doesn't go to the heart of the matter anyway which is this: you can't trust Bush, Cheney or anyone who works for them anymore than you can trust the Iranians these days. Trying to argue it's sorta, kinda legal or ok to kill American soldiers is to put it mildly politically stoopid.

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Doesn't this mean that the "anonymous" briefers from two weeks ago can be outted (on the basis that the info provided has been shown to be BS)?

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Bob: Yes. Please find the stories posted about it over the past couple of days on this very site if you'd like to comment without being offtopic.

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Sy Hersch wrote extensively just yesterday on this subject (indirectly). Part of the Bush surge policy it to attempt to line up whatever skunks it takes to advance American interests in that area, i.e., oil interests. This is the worst of the bad old days that were exposed by Iran-Contra. Human rights are the first thing to go. Today we are capturing hundreds of Iranians in Iraq then torturing them to provide the "intelligence" necessary to make the case for war against Iran. That is likely the source for the earlier reports that, once again, proved to be false. But, then, what else can you expect from torture? This might makes right policy is nuts.

Nobody ever asks the question, "why do they hate us so much". Without an assessment of that question we are doomed to create even more hatred against America. Cheney and Bush have been wrong from the beginning and they show no signs of having learned any lessons from those repeated failures as they plow forward into their next failure.

I suppose this policy can have a modestly positive pause before everything falls apart if enough cash greases the policy, but fail it will. I am guessing that that is all Bush is looking for at this point in time as that would dump the problem in the lap of the next President. The next President will be handed the greatest challenge of any President since FDR took over from Hoover.

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Several months ago I watched a segment of "Future Weapons" on the Discovery Channel. A Brit explosives expert made one of these devices out in the middle of a muddy field. All of the components were simple and somewhat crude. That was the purpose of the segment. To demonstrate how easy it is to construct this deadly device. Can anyone say TIVO! The official story is total BS. I'm sure the people at the Discovery Channel are waiting for someone to call.

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Making a symmetrical concave copper disk with a
precise varying thickness - well, what that needs
is a small lathe. Basically 1880's steam-engine
technology. Any machine shop capable of repairing
gasoline engines could do it. Or you can buy a
small Chinese-made lathe for $400, see
www.mini-lathe.com. Hell, if you have $20 or so
you could smelt your own copper from ore with a
home-made charcoal foundry, see www.backyardmetalcasting.com

Getting the design right is tricky, requiring
either a lot of dangerous and noisy experiments,
or else some non-trivial computer simulations.
But the manufacturing is easy, and could be done
in any third-world country.

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From the LA Times earlier this month (2/18 I believe):
In November, U.S. troops raiding a Baghdad machine shop came
across a pile of copper disks, 5 inches in diameter, stamped out as
part of what was clearly an ongoing order. This ominous discovery,
unreported until now, makes it clear that Iraqi insurgents have no
need to rely on Iran as the source of EFPs.

The truth is that EFPs are simple to make for anyone who knows how
to do it. Far from a sophisticated assembly operation that might
require state supervision, all that is required is one of those disks,
some high-powered explosive (which is easy to procure in Iraq) and a
container, such as a piece of pipe. I asked a Pentagon analyst
specializing in such devices how much each one would cost to
make. "Twenty bucks," he answered after a brief calculation. "Thirty
at most."

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Devil's advocacy: Maybe Bush is doing the right thing by talking tough w/ Iran. After all, Ahmedinejad (forgive the spelling errors) lost big in regional elections a few months ago and part of the reason was Iran's international isolation. Iran is a great country and could be a real anchor for stability in the Persian Gulf. But Ahmedinejad really is a nutcase.

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so there is this wild eyed president who's a real nutcase, lost big in recent elections, believes in this second coming idea, and threatens other nations with attack. what to do about him?
i say impeach bushcheney now.

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The Alford Krakatoa is a shaped explosive device made in Great Britian and used by British and US special forces to blow things up. It can penetrate at least two inches of steel.

A while back, some British commandos were busted in Iraq with a trunk full of explosive devices.

Anyone can make the copper lids if they have a metal shop and know the right measurements.

A + B + C = blowback, the unintentional consequences of black operations that were never supposed to be known. That's my theory.

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workaday joe >"...Iran is a great country and could be a real anchor for stability in the Persian Gulf..."

Assuming that either Bush Handlers, Inc. or the Chinese would actually want stability in that region which, working from facts on the record, neither group clearly does not.

"Politics is just high school with guns and more money" - Frank Zappa

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Yeah, we get the picture on the impeach thing. We don't need four posts per story mentioning it.

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Actually, the copper bowls are from a company that makes special aluminum tubes...

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These various components may have been planted in the palm grove in order to be "turned in" by a local in order to demonstrate that pre-made EFPs are not being transported to Iraq by Iranian operatives. Plausible deniability?

Or are we setting ourselves up?

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In the words of Madeleine Kahn in the film "What's Up, Doc?": This is OUTRAGEOUS!

This should be front page news, of course. But it won't be. A tiny fraction of the folks who heard the phony "IED story" are going to hear this retraction.
The damage is done. Now, when the president gets on the tube in a couple months and gravely reports that we must save the Iranians from themselves by bombing them into the Stone Age, 100 million Americans will turn to their spouses and say "Hey, didn't they make the weapons that killed our boys?"

Bam. That's all it takes for another four years of this shite.

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Naturally, the military and Cheney are lying about Iran and these weapons, but I'm beginning to second-guess myself about the reason. Perhaps it's all just a distraction from the question of who is supplying the Sunnis with the more sophisticated anti-aircraft weaponas thye've used to bring down more choppers in a month than in all of 2006?

This is by far a more important development in insurgent ordnance than the EFPs. Better anti-chopper weapons (supplied by the US to the mujahideen) drove the Soviets out of Afghanistan. I've seen it asserted, without much backup (though it makes sense), that Sunni insurgents are buying these things with money donated by wealthy Saudis. Let the bombs fall on Riyadh, not Teheran! Oh, I forgot, one might hit Bandar Bush! Never mind!

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The explosives are most likely the 30 tons of explosives found in huge bunkers and reported by embedded media during the rush to Baghdad....
They reported the presence of the explosives, even showing pictures of IAEA seals (broken) to get inside and photograph the huge amount of explosives present. Then they all left to go to Baghdad. Nothing was secured, the next time anyone showed up, all the explosives were gone. They estimated it was numerous semi-truckloads of the highest explosives known. (TSX I think) These explosives are used for nuclear triggers, but I think they would work just fine in EFP's.
Why has nobody in the media made this connection? We had a handle on a huge amount of explosives and let it go....

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Perhaps I shouldn't mention this, but I've successfully made an EPF using only a beer can and Dick Cheney's bowel movements. Actually, I didn't need the can.

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"These copper bowls could be filled with anthrax and and sprinkled on your child's cereal while you are watching a Tivo'd American Idol episode."

-The New Colin Powell

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The real question no one, except Juan Cole, is asking on this is why would Iran(Shiite) sell/give these weapons to the insurgents(Sunni) who are killing most of our soldiers and a lot of Iraqi Shiites???

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"When we were arming the Afghani mujahideen with Stinger missiles, the USSR never considered that an overt act of war by the US against the Soviet Union."

We also didn't attack China or Russia when their weapons were killing US troops in Vietnam. US troops were also killed directly by the Chinese in Korea, yet we didn't move beyond theater. Revenge isn't a foreign policy.

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It's a distraction. Explosive ordinance from Belgium and Czechoslovakia have been found in Iraq. The USA needs to bomb Belgium!

See: Table 1. Iraq’s landmines
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/cement_factory_ii/cement_factory_ii_tabe.htm

=================

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workaday joe> Devil's advocacy: Maybe Bush is doing the right thing by talking tough w/ Iran.

I blame Bush for Ahmadinejad's election in the first place. Going into the election, Ahmadinejad (former mayor of Tehran) was well down in the polls. Then Bush opened his yap and warned the Iranian people not to elect some fanatic like, say, Ahmadinejad.

Bush is a dangerous fool, as is Ahmadinejad, but at least he remembers his B'rer Rabbit stories.

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Granted these explosives can be made relatively easily as the Krakatoa is a very simply made weapon. But does anyone know why over 100 .50 caliber sniper rifles have been found in the hands of the insurgents less then 45 days after they arrived when ALL of those rifles were shipped to Iran as a larger part of an 800 rifle shipment, according to the rifle's manufacturer?

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Steve, the administration WANTED Ahmadinejad to be elected to justify war with Iran. This was just another calculated move by the Cheney, er, I mean, Rove, I mean, the b*sh administration...

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