mmmhmmmm sure Rove.

So, the RNC implements a special protocol to keep Rove from accidently deleting his emails?

Right. And the bank puts its money in the vault at night to keep people from accidently wandering in in the middle of the night and accidently taking it home.

Where was that e-mail of Rove's stored that he found and used as his excuse to change his testimony in Plamegate?

If this is true then Luskin should have no problem turning over all the equipment to forensic investigators. After all, a thorough scrubbing of those machines would validate his client's position. This is a perfect way for Rove to exonerate himself. Protect your client Mr. Luskin, turn over the machines.

I'm not an IT expert by any means, but correct me if I'm wrong here but in order to delete something off the server don't you have to know where to go? It's not generally something you do by accident is it? Over and over and over again too... Any signs on whether or not the RNC is going to cooperate with congress on turning emails over? Congress needs to forget about getting anything from the White House and concentrate on the RNC.

How could he delete his emails from servers? Everyone tidies up their inbox. IANAT (I am not a techie) but from what I have read, he would not be able to do that from his devices, be they hand held, wireless, desk top.

Am I right to assume this is just crap?

code word: smelly

How many more times can they slap the Dems in the face and make a mockery of their "oversight" before the Dems finally say ENOUGH? The shit is just getting more and more outrageous, verging on unbelievable.

If true, Patrick Fitzgerald was clearly aware of violations of PRA. Guess since that wasn't part of his mandate.

I really once again how Rove avoided charges. Everything he did had the appearance of bad faith and we all know how zless flarant but similar behavior helped to damn Libby.

I agree with Lee above. Hand over the hardware.

Security code: debt, as in you owe us our govt back.

Most companies also maintain an 'old computer boneyard' where retired computer systems languish. Often, unless strict protocols are enforced, systems are retired with their hard drives intact. Such a potential resource should not be overlooked.

Not a techie either, but I've heard that deleting a file merely erases the reference to the file(like
a table of contents),and that the file is still there, and can easily be retrieved, unless it is purposely(criminally?) over-written several times.

Could Karl Rove be the first person to delete all their email? It is one thing to clear your inbox, quite another to delete your sent mail. Who would ever clean up that folder?

I'm pretty sure that if we got the email he wrote, that would be pretty good. But, cleaning up your inbox doesn't delete email you send.

When a file is erase, it's given a filename beginning with "?" which basically hides it from view. It still exists on the hard drive, although it is released from the FAT (File Allocation Table) and can, in time, be overwritten. Even if it's overwritten, parts of the document may still be retrievable. Only a full reformat of the hard drive can make the files irretrievable.

These people only know how to speak through their lawyer,....hmmm. Like someone hinted earlier here, subpoena the SA in charge and find out if there was ever a request to delete a specific range of emails from the RNC servers. The problem is finding out who's in charge. These people point more fingers than a NYC traffic cop during rush hour.

DBH said:
"This is all horse hockey, any decent server admin does daily, weekly and monthly backups that can be pulled and examined for emails. Unless the tapes were erased. "

That's it, in a nutshell. Time to find the tapes (and the admin, assuming he/she is still in the country....).

If it was an accident, then certainly they'll have no problem working with experts to recover the data.

Whatever the RNC's e-mail deletion policy, and whether or not Rove's e-mails were actually deleted from his laptop/desktop/mail server, the terms of the Presidential Records Act say that before any official records from the EOP can be deleted from computers the EOP must receive a formal opinion on the matter from the National Archivist.

Where is that opinion? If Rove didn't obtain one the EOP is in violation of the law.

Let's hear exactly what Karl's email protocol was. Was he following the rules or not? Spell it all out. The onus is on them to do more than mumble about how he didn't mean to throw his Blackberry in the incinerator.

He's going to do the same thing he did to Fitzgerald, six months from now, when the pressure is unbearable, he'll suddenly magically "find" some more emails.

When does that trick cross the line?

Karl Rove: Big f-ing liar, or the biggest f-ing liar?

OK, so if Rove's personal attorney (as opposed to White House Counsel) is discussing this, that would mean the issue (i.e., his deletion of RNC based e-mail) is not executive privileged, right?

Unfortunately, it's a believeable story. Most email clients have it as an option that deleting mail from an Inbox will also delete the mail from the server. It's fairly routine for people to clean out their Inboxes of mail they no longer think is important.

Of course, it's highly questionable why he was using his RNC account for those discussions in the first place, and why the RNC didn't institute a strict archiving procedure for ALL White House employees in the first place (something that should have obviously been necessary).

Here's an interesting comment from the Washington Post comments page:

www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/comments/display?contentID=AR2007041202408&start=121

"Having actually worked inside the very-well managed RNC computer room, I know for a fact there exists documented standard operating procedures which include real-time backup, redundant servers and offsite storage for disaster recovery purposes. Further, It is not credible that Karl Rove, a political functionary, has admin level access to the RNC email servers. He may have emptied his RNC email inbox, but there are numerous copies of the original messages and accompanying transaction logs."

By onlineid | Apr 13, 2007 9:39:39 AM

Everything else aside, the "I didn't *mean* to" is not a sound legal defense.
If you accidentally run a red light and plow through a playgroup of 5-year-olds, you're still gonna be in trouble whether there was malicious intent or not.

Not to mention it being exposed as an obvious and blatant lie if said e-mails are even the least bit difficult to retrieve.

Security Code: Give Me A F#cking Break

The WH has been thinking about this and preparing for this day for a long time. I'm sure that we are now just bumping into the outer perimeter of defense-in-depth obstruction.

Could you shred these awful Smilin' Karl photos? How about a Just Plain Karl, a Nervous Karl, or a Wait-I'm-Thinking-Up-An-Explanation Karl?

Most Ethical Administration Ever!

This makes no sense whatsoever.

1. We’re talking about a group with access to the FBI, the CIA and any other intelligence agency in the world and they can’t retrieve information?

2. Their saying that Osama bin Laden could email anyone back and forth, from anywhere in the world and all he would have to do is hit ‘delete’ afterwards?

3. During the hearings on the handling of classified information we found out from the person who was the head of security that this administration had not even lifted a finger to do an internal investigation…all they need to do is get testimony from the WH IT person and they can explain their deletion procedures.

Some excellent comments. Tom-you are right- someone should look into the William Jefferson emails. If we had any media stoolies like all the republican ones, they'd be on TV now yelling about how this administration is spying on our emails and they can't even keep track of their own. How in the world are they tracking terrorists?? Wouldn't that just be delicious to turn "terrorists" back on them???

Ahhhhh, Turdblossom strikes again.

Karl is not a computer neophyte.

He's been obsessed with technology every step of the way.

He knows exactly what he was doing.

Of course he didn't mean to "delete" the messages. He meant to "obliterate" them.

Rove is in a real bind.

If he and the EOP claim RNC e-mails are not subject to the Presidential Records Act because they were not official business, then where are the records of his official business that did fall under the Act?

But EOP attorney Fielding is claiming executive privelege does apply to the RNC-processed e-mails, so they must have been official business, no? So deleting them was a violation of the law.

Either way, Rove loses the argument.

Not sure if I got this right:

P. Fitzgerald requested Rove's emails w/ regards to the Plame case.

Now we learn, in connection with the AG firings, that MCRove didn't retain his mails until '05.

And Fitzgearld didn't notice?

Might want to take a 2nd look into that...

V-word 'sticky'. heh.

.

secruity code: Turn

As in the tables are turning
As in turn yourself in, Rove
As in turn over a new leaf.
As in leave no stone un-turned.

Why would Rove think that the RNC would be preserving his emails? Is it even reasonable to think a political organization or a private company would preserve one's emails? I would think, given his position and security clearances, that his default belief would be that nobody other than himself and the white house would be -- or should be -- saving his emails.

Which raises another issue, what classified and top secret information has he revealed to the RNC if 90% of his work was done on the RNC email accounts.

CAN WE START AN IMPEACHMENT DRIVE YET!!!!

Look, everybody who sent an email to Rove has a copy of it in their 'Sent' folder. And everybody who received an email from Rove has it in their 'In' folder.

Everybody knows you don't delete emails - why in hell would you? Running out of space on your 320 Gigabyte hard drive?

Everybody knows that destroying government records is a felony.

These people have committed Conspiracy and Subversion. Let the trials begin. Prepare the jails.

Here's something that keeps happening everytime Rove et al want to get a message out that wholly untrue: Their lawyer communicates the message to the media. Look at plamegate and the misinformation that wa spread by their lawyers.

It is happening so often that if a message is being communicated by this administrations lawyer, you know it is not the truth. If it were the truth, the individual would hold their own press conference and deliver the message.

You will never here Rove utter the words - "i deleted them by accident" because it is a lie.

Can anyone find other examples of plainly false information delivered to the press via the lawyers for others in this administration.

$140K check was written by WH ags & not cashed. Co that allegedly provided "office frunishings" but that actually provided "communications security" to . . . not sure but think it was to Cheney or Rove . . .never cashed the check. Less than five weeks later, Cunningham purchased/got a boat for $140K. Co then got $360+ Mil in US Gov Ks. Murky exactly how this went down . . . Entire transaction can be verified. Google and see RNC ems for more info. All during time of missing ems.

whizkid,

The beaury of blogs is that you speak your miind. If you're angry, talk about it. You don't need to hop on a Greyhound and land some place to make your mark. Speak out. I want to hear what's on your mind. Clearly, you are quite bright. I grew up hearing alot about Abby Hoffman, but can honestly say, know little about him. This other person, Saul Alinsky, I know nothing. What should I know?

Saul was about the working people of this country. That pay the taxes and fight the wars.

The American people. Hale Atlantis!

And of course I'm being full of crap here, but he was a great spokesman for labour and the greater good of the greater number of people and deserves being noted as a heroe to the Yippie movement, which had the crap we faced figured out....oh...about 30 years ago.

If Luskin's is telling the truth that Fitzgerald was given a complete set of Rove's emails WH/RNC/Private than Luskin should have a copy of what was provided to Fitzgerald as well. It would seem any good lawyer would keep a record of any information that is transmitted on behalf of his client.

I think the Fitzgerald sop is an attempt on Rove/Luskin's part to distract us from who should be the focus here and that is Rove/Luskin not Fitzgerald.

Congress should request that Luskin turn over the complete email records he has admitted to providing to Fitzgerald on behalf of his client Rove.

a johnson,

You appear to make reasonable points. If I may:

1. You assume that Fitz "was given a complete set of Rove's emails" - How is that possible, given that the RNC has NO Rove ems prior to '05, no WH ems from '00-04, and no WH ems for anyone from 3/04-10/05?

2. You assume "any good lawyer would keep a record of any information that is transmitted on behalf of his client." . . . a valid assumption; however, Rove isn't a lawyer, and the very reason that we are discussing these lawyers is because - they aren't so good (where are the disciplinary committees - in most jurisdictions, you plead the Fifth, chances are that you get disbarred.

P.S. "Good" can be somewhat ambiguous. Like the term "porn", I know it when I see it. The vast majority of lawyers are decent professionals. What the GOP sees and elects not to see tends to astound and to morph with the changing fortunes of time. I am not a member of the Federalist Society - if I were to be a card-carrying member of the ACLU, would I not be "good"?

3. What does "sop" mean?

4. What Fitz thinks is relevant . . . for better or worse . . . what you think isn't so important. What does Fitz think?

5. All records that Luskin "has admitted to providing to Fitzgerald on behalf of his client Rove" should definitely be forthcoming.

Any records from the RNC server have no basis for a claim of privilege, have been requested and must therefore be provided.

Peter-

This is not the independent counsel selection, of course -- but today brings TPM-posted news that the Senate has come to agreement with the WH to joint-pick a consultant who will help go figure out what the heck those deleted emails got up to. I assume it will basically be a high-end tech person, and it will be their task to determine final word on the email fate and its recoverability.

Great.

But I have just one question -- why ever should this decision require anything more than "OK" from the White House -- and this being the only word out of their mouth, uttered as the Senate-chosen tech investigator approaches the server room at the White House and says, a la Jimmy Fallon's irritable support desk guy from SNL -- "Move!"?

Rove Didn't Mean to Delete Email

over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over,

because he made the same mistake

again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again

for four years.

And nobody else in the entire Bush administration managed to make the same mistake.

Sounds reasonable...............

I'm so glad Rove's lawyer clarified for him that when he deleted his emails he was just cleaning his inbox because he had no use for the emails anymore. And that Rove's lawyer also explained for us that Karl always intended for his emails to be preserved.

But this leaves me a little confused. But if that's the case, why doesn't Karl just turn over all his RNC emails? Why else was he happy they were being preserved?

Karl? Can you please talk to the public rather than having your lawyer or the White House spokesperson or whoever the minion of the moment is take the fall for you?

Karl - don't tell me you're pulling another Scottie on us! Remember when you hung that poor White House spokesperson out to dry with your lies that you had nothing at all to do with Plame?

Karl, remind me please, why should we trust you?

Oh yeah, I forgot. You are a lying sack of you know what who will do and say anything to advance your political cause or save yourself, as the case may be.

Well Karl, I've got some bad news for you. America is on to you. You and Bush may be sending our boys off to Iraq to die for you say is to uphold the rule of law (remember that was the number one reason for Iraq that Bush gave in his State of the Union?). And you and Bush may just not be above the rule of law at home.

You see Karl, you and Bush don't get to break the law because Bush is President, got it? I know you don't. And I hope you find out the hard way what I mean because you're obviously not listening to folks like me who are sick of the corruption, incompetence and cya'ing of you, Bush and the whole lot of Bush Republican politicians and officials today.

-- This is all unadulterated bullshit. The emails are not gone. Just get a forensics team ready and a warrant for the servers. Then execute the warrant. There done. Then the congress will see what emails they can. --

steambomb... if that's true, and assume it is, can you explain why -- when Fitzgerald discovered Rove's emails were missing -- would close his investigation of Rove without retrieving and reviewing Rove's 5 million emails ?

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I wish people knew how most of this works; if no special protocols are in place for archiving or backup, when you delete e-mails from your account, they are deleted from the server. You get to choose where storage is going to occur when you access your account, they will initially be stored on the server, no matter what, you can choose to store them locally (on your own PC's hard drive, as you access your account they'll be downloaded onto your PC they'll be deleted from the server, absent a deliberate archiving/backup setup on the server, and then they reside on your machine, until you delete them). Now if the RNC didn't set up archiving, then they may be saved on the servers that they were sent to, but not necessarily anywhere else. If this was deliberately set up to be a blind hole for Repug clandestine communication, all they had to do was not archive, or not back them up (or in either case, pretend they didn't) and no one's going to see them, unless the Repugs were dumb enough to send them to the legitimate government accounts, which is what happened in at least one instance, to bring this to light.

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