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DoJ Official to Lam: Leave in "Weeks, Not Months"

Those who are suspicious of U.S. Attorney for San Diego Carol Lam's firing just got a lot more cause for suspicion.

In her written answers to questions from Congress, Lam recounted a conversation with Justice Department official Michael Elston after she was fired in which Elston made it clear to her that she would be gone within "weeks" regardless of the fate of certain cases, and that this order came "from the highest levels of the government." Elston also told her that someone from outside her office would most likely to come in to take over.

Lam had good reason to be preoccupied about certain cases, of course. Her office was close to indicting Brent Wilkes, a defense contractor who allegedly bribed Duke Cunningham and possibly other Republican congressmen, and Dusty Foggo, the former executive director of the CIA.

But according to Lam, Elston told her that her appeals to stay on in order to deal with certain cases was "'not being received positively.'" She was to depart in "weeks, not months" and "these instructions were 'coming from the very highest levels of the government.'"

Lam also adds that Elston told her he "suspected" that the administration would be installing someone from outside her office as her successor, that there would be "no overlap" between Lam's departure and her successor's start date, and that her successor wouldn't have to be vetted by the committee of Republicans in California who had before been responsible for vetting U.S. attorneys in the state.

All of this will do much to increase suspicion that the administration intended to replace Lam with a "loyal Bushie" of their choice.

Lam also describes an odd conversation she had with Deputy Atttorney General Paul McNulty. After being told that she was being fired, Lam called McNulty for an explanation. McNulty declined to tell Lam why she was being fired:

He responded that he wanted some time to think about how to answer that question because he didn’t want to give me an answer “that would lead” me down the wrong route. He added that he knew I had personally taken on a long trial and he had great respect for me. Mr. McNulty never responded to my question.

Lam's account of these conversations is below. You can read all of her answers here.

From Lam's written testimony to Congress:

Following the call from Michael Battle informing me I was to resign effective January 21, 2007, I called DAG McNulty to inquire why I was being asked to resign. He responded that he wanted some time to think about how to answer that question because he didn’t want to give me an answer “that would lead” me down the wrong route. He added that he knew I had personally taken on a long trial and he had great respect for me. Mr. McNulty never responded to my question.

After a follow-up call with Mike Battle a few days later, I requested additional time to ensure and orderly transition in the office, especially regarding pending investigations and several significant cases that were set to begin trial in the next few months.

On January 5, 2007, I received a call from Michael Elston informing me that my request for more time base on case-related considerations was “not being received positively,” and that I should “stop thinking in terms of the cases in the office.” He insisted that I had to depart in a matter of weeks, not months, and that these instructions were “coming from the very highest levels of the government.” In this and subsequent calls, Mike Elston told me that (1) he ‘suspected” and “had a feeling” that the interim U.S. Attorney who would succeed me would not be someone from within my office, but rather would be someone who was a DOJ employee not currently working in my office, (2) there would be “no overlap” between my departure and the start date of the interim U.S. Attorney, and (3) the person picked to serve as interim U.S. Attorney would not have to be vetted by the committee process used in California for the selection of U.S. Attorneys.


43 Comments

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This was nothing short of a coup which started in FL in 2000.

I hope this blatant attack on Republicans (which Lam and her colleagues were at one time) will cause a major defection in the party.

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Time to start looking into who's actually going to be prosecuting Wilkes & Foggo. Loyal Bushie, by chance?

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Time to start asking what it is about the Wilkes/Foggo case that has the administration willing to go to such lengths. I don't think we know 1/10th of the story at the moment.

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McNulty is looking worse and worse.

I remember when people used to compare him to patrick fitzgerald.

maybe they were right.

fitz certainly doesn't have much to show for his investigation.

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Is there any base for a perjury charge in all this? And if so, for whom??

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William Ruckelshaus
Elliot Richardson

A reminder of Republicans who served the law and their country. And the advent of the 'new conservative order': Robert Bork

The transition from then to now started on a Saturday in October '73.

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William Ruckelshaus
Elliot Richardson

A reminder of Republicans who served the law and their country. And the advent of the 'new conservative order': Robert Bork

The transition from then to now started on a Saturday in October '73.

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It looks like the DOJ is melting down today with the release of these reponses and other items.

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Carol Lam was on the cusp of indicting a former high ranking official of the Bush administration. She is fired in a time-sensitive manner, at the wishes highest levels of the administration, and yet, when she asks, she is given no explanation for her dismissal or its timing.

Why isn't Gonzales being formally investigated for obstruction of justice?

Code word "turn", which the aspen leaves will soon do, in clusters, out East.

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Carol Lam was on the cusp of indicting a former high ranking official of the Bush administration. She is fired in a time-sensitive manner, at the wishes highest levels of the administration, and yet, when she asks, she is given no explanation for her dismissal or its timing.

Why isn't Gonzales being formally investigated for obstruction of justice?

Code word "turn", which the aspen leaves will soon do, in clusters, out East.

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I highly recommend that everyone read Ms. Lam's entire response. Over the past 6+ years, we have been so thoroughly desensitized to soundbites, spin, and utter bullshit, and it incredibly refreshing to read well-reasoned, straightforward, and cogents responses to discussions. In addition to the more scandalous issues noted above, her responses decimate the argument that she performed poorly on immigration and gun crime.

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modmom- a coup, indeed.
Now consider: In order for a coup to succeed, it need only succeed, because who, then, controls any investigation of it?

No matter any witnesses, documents or any other evidence that may exist.

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When do Michael Elston and Michael Battle testify?

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Why is chimpy mcflightsuit so worried.
The duke and his cronies were subverting the secret cia budget for their own gain.
If this comes out the GOP will go the way of the Whigs.

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Karl knows that only the DOJ can prosecute - in this case, itself. There aren't enough votes in Congress to impeach anybody, or to pass special/independent counsel legislation with votes sufficient to override a presidential veto.

Congress is limited to exercising its investigative powers using all the resources at its command and with all deliberate speed. For surely they know that any and all bodies and documents the administration can discard, it will discard.

The Democrats should be taking notes and names. The statute of limitation on any crimes committed in the past few years will not run until long after Mr. Bush leaves office.

One thing Congressional researchers need to put high on their to do list is to comb recent (and new legislation - before it passes) for exculpatory language that would limit or prohibit prosecuting them. The Addingtons of the administration will be trying to slip these into EVERY piece of legislation between now and the last day of the 110th Congress. Better check all those Exec Orders, too.

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"The transition from then to now started on a Saturday in October '73."

Actually, Wahoo, there are many who think it all started Nov. 63.
More and more I am tendng to agree.

What is it about Texas?

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I took dc's advice and read all of Carol Lam's testimony. It was worth doing.

Also, I'd like more explanation about the comments by Wahoo and MRO about when the transition from then to now started, e.g. October 73 or Nov. 63. Am afraid I was only marginally interested in politics before the Bush disaster. Would really like to know more about the history of the US Attorney General's office. I know Janet Reno was roundly criticized, but am not sure how justified the criticism was.

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Youse guys crack me up. "The statute of limitation on any crimes committed in the past few years will not run until long after Mr. Bush leaves office." Tell me, does a "lame duck" administration pack US Attorney posts with friends if it thinks it will be gone in two years? Anyone remember what civic event was scheduled for NYC on 9/11/01? (An election.) Anyone remember what happened to that election. (Cancelled.) Anyone remember the outcry against that? (There was none.) Or Rudy graciously offering to remain in office?

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana (1863–1952).

Oh, but you jokers are too busy trying blogging the security codes. Any idea how stupid that makes you look?

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It will be interesting to hear how Elston attempts to paint Kyle Sampson and Monica Goodling as the "very highest levels of government". Another Bushie pleads the Fifth and resigns suddenly?

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How anyone can believe there is any "justice" anymore in the USA is beyond me. The "Bushies" can do all this b/c the Federal Appellate Courts are all stocked w/Bushies who, if there is ever any criminal penalty assessed to the Bushies for their criminal obstruction of justice, will find grounds to reverse same as we saw w/Ollie North etc. done in the DC Circuit (Judge Silberman sp? et al). The government has been stocked thru and thru with those who would, and have, destroyed our Republic . . . all this is just the tip of the iceberg . . . we are definitely timewise along the path of Germany circa 1935 . . .

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This, to me, is the smoking gun.

How can it possibly be argued that firing Lam was not an attempt to disrupt ongoing cases? And doing that is simply the lowest form of slimy behavior, unethical, illegal (obstruction of justice), and simply down and dirty skullduggery.

If in my profession something like this occurred it would be totally unethical and it would incur legal responsibility for any bad outcomes to society or another person.

To have this occur in the "Justice Department" is simply so outrageous and nefarious that it defies description. And no penalty can be enough at this point in an effort to set things right.

How is it just for the rest of society, for DoJ to leave so many pus-filled holes in our system of law enforcement? How can anyone expect fairness ("justice for all"), given the current climate of cronyism, greed, election tampering and outright criminal behavior by those entrusted with law enforcement?

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Wahoo said:

"William Ruckelshaus
Elliot Richardson

"A reminder of Republicans who served the law and their country."

Wahoo is right. These men resigned rather than violate their oath of office. There should be statues of these men in the Justice building.

I too have my suspicions aroused by the lengths the White House has gone to in order to interrupt her investigations. I am betting that the most likely reason they "had a problem" with Carol Lam is that she was investigating Jerry Lewis, reportedly one of the most powerful figures in Congress.

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move along now. nothing to see. no obsturction of justice here. pay no attention to the constitution waving from the back of the room.

security code where. as in where is the outrage?

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Barbara - Wahoo is refering to the Saturday Night Massacre - In October 1973 Richard Nixon told his AG, Elliot Richardson to file Archibald Cox, the special prosecuter appointed to investigate the Watergate coverup. Richardson refused and resigned as AG. Nixon then ordered the Deputy AG, William Ruckelshaus to fire Cox; Ruckelshaus also refused and resigned. The next in line was the Solicitor General, one Robert Bork, who fired Cox. Of course another special prosecuter was appointed, Nixon resigned less than a year later, and Robert Bork never made it onto the Supreme Court and has been bitter about it ever since.

I agree with Wahoo - it was the beginning of the end of the Republican party. My father had been voting Democratic for about 5 years, but after that he changed his registration to Democrat and never looked back.

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The Republican party didn't die after Watergate, and it won't die now.

That's from a life long Dem, and one who watched Nixon resign.

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To me one of the biggest bits of news in this is that in the spring of 2006, Lam joined with the other "Southwest Border" USAs to ask for more resources to fight illegal immigration – and was denied. (See question 26 in her full response).

That strikes me as the most devastating strike at the WH/Gonzales defense on this that she was fired because of immigration.

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Sorry, in the comment above I was referring to Lam's answer to question 27, not 26 as I wrote.

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In my opinion, the Grand Old Party is going to suffer a slow painful death. The progressive and Libertarian voters are drifting to the Dems. If a "progressive conservative" third party ran a full slate, it would siphon off the non kool-aid drinkers and leave the republicans with only the lunatic fringe of the right.

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If the republican party and all its fanatical adherents of the fascist and socalledchristian and related fundamentalist authoritarians ceased to exist tomorrow, it would not be too soon for the good of the U.S. My parents moved from south america to this country many years ago to escape political corruption and abuse of power...now, my son and his family are exploring possible countries to emigrate to....any suggestions?

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Perhaps this goes without saying, but "the highest level of government" is guvspeak for the POTUS or the VPOTUS.

In Bushworld, I'd add "Karl Rove" to that list, or just substitute him for POTUS.

I wonder how much we'll ever know about the relationship between Rove and Cheney, i.e. what crosspurposes or synergy they have in managing the Presidunce.

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Since Ms. Lam's responses are posted as page images in pdf format at the link, I have taken the liberty of transcribing them into text on this blog page. Hope it's useful.

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Oops, looks like links won't embed in these comments. So let's see if this naked URL for the text transcription gets through:
http://tinselwing.wordpress.com/carol-lams-written-responses-to-the-senate-judiciary-committee/

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The Republicans arent going anywhere. They have only become more powerful because their whole administration is a PR campaign to cover up the slow bleed of American justice and rights. Has Gonzales, Rove, Cheney, Bush been "perp-walked" out of the white house? No. The outrage fatigue is overwhelming by the constant desensitization campaign of scandal. We don't know which thing to march against next. And when there's NO SHAME, then why would the Republicans do anything different. Even with the Dems in control of congress, the Repubs still act in charge, and yet "victimized," which they also did when they were in control.
I keep thinking "we better wake up," but we're wide awake, and no Republicans have left the party. And they've actually gained Lieberman.
God help us all. The Christianists are killing the bees, the wages, the water supply and the earth.

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The Republicans arent going anywhere. They have only become more powerful because their whole administration is a PR campaign to cover up the slow bleed of American justice and rights. Has Gonzales, Rove, Cheney, Bush been "perp-walked" out of the white house? No. The outrage fatigue is overwhelming by the constant desensitization campaign of scandal. We don't know which thing to march against next. And when there's NO SHAME, then why would the Republicans do anything different. Even with the Dems in control of congress, the Repubs still act in charge, and yet "victimized," which they also did when they were in control.
I keep thinking "we better wake up," but we're wide awake, and no Republicans have left the party. And they've actually gained Lieberman.
God help us all. The Christianists are killing the bees, the wages, the water supply and the earth.

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Josh says today that McNulty may not have been aware yet, when he spoke to Lam, of the immigration reason that the DOJ was going to give as a rationale for her firing.

I think that is plausible.

I also think that perhaps if you read between the lines that McNulty DID answer Lam but his message was very oblique....supposedly he told her he did not want to give her answer that 'might lead' her down the wrong path, but then he also added...he understood that she had just STARTED a big trial and he RESPECTED her for that.

I think that he WAS telling Lam, what was going on but he was doing it very indirectly. Only Lam took it as him not answering her.

McNulty DID in fact answer her...and he told her PRECISELY why she was being fired.

McNulty's conscious would not let him remain silent, just as he was uncomfortable about the Bogden firing as well as thinking Schumer would understand performance reasons.

Recall, we are knee-depth in this investigation because it was McNulty who went OFF-SCRIPT.

I think McNulty is trying HARD to subtly tell the truth while leaving himself a way out. But he is singing like a canary...we just have to listen carefully to his omissions as well as oblique references and we find the TRUTH exposed.

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On the up side Duke Cunninham's buddy Duncan "Doughnuts" Hunter can now use his Presidential campaign money to run and not save it for his defense fund.

Code word is knot, like Hunter is knot going anywhere.

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DAG McNulty is another one of those slippery golden boys who got where he is by successfully prosecuting a Northern Virginia doctor for pain pill distribution. The doctor was a pioneering pain management specialist. McNulty twisted the facts, limited the number of witnesses for the doctor, misrepresented the facts, and, in my opinion, suppressed evidence. He is a super-ambitious clown who never should have been promoted. Now suddenly, he knows little or nothing about the firing of these fine US Attorneys for political reasons. Republican politicians always harp about integrity, but this administration's record is odious in that regard.

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"Barbara - Wahoo is refering to the Saturday Night Massacre - In October 1973 Richard Nixon told his AG, Elliot Richardson to file Archibald Cox, the special prosecuter appointed to investigate the Watergate coverup. Richardson refused and resigned as AG. Nixon then ordered the Deputy AG, William Ruckelshaus to fire Cox; Ruckelshaus also refused and resigned. The next in line was the Solicitor General, one Robert Bork, who fired Cox. Of course another special prosecuter was appointed, Nixon resigned less than a year later, and Robert Bork never made it onto the Supreme Court and has been bitter about it ever since."

You folks are missing an important point here--Bork tendered his resignation immediately after carrying out the order. In other words, what Bork did was fall on his sword for the people below him in the Department of Justice. He knew that if he resigned without firing Cox, then the next person would have to do the same, and so on, leaving the Department without any senior leadership. The only solution was to carry out the order and resign in protest.

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Thanks Historian for the explanation.

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"Also, I'd like more explanation about the comments by Wahoo and MRO about when the transition from then to now started, e.g. October 73 or Nov. 63. Am afraid I was only marginally interested in politics before the Bush disaster. Would really like to know more about the history of the US Attorney General's office. I know Janet Reno was roundly criticized, but am not sure how justified the criticism was."

"Posted by: Barbara
Date: May 2, 2007 04:54 PM"

November 22, 1963: JFK assassinated in Dallas, Texas.

October, 1973: "Saturday Night Massacre". Nixon ordered -- an unconstitutional order -- the Atty. Gen. to fire Watergate Special Prosecutor Archibald Cox.

Atty Gen. Eliot Richardson (R-MA) refused, and resigned.

Nixon then ordered Asst. Atty. Gen. Rukleshaus to fire Cox. He refused and resigned.

He then ordered the Solictor General to fire Cox. The Solicitor General, Robert Bork, did the firing.

Nixon also ordered the Special Prosecutor's office sealed. Before that could be done, staffers stuffed files of evidence into the fronts of their pants, under their shirts, as they left.

It was a terrifying weekend. Thankfully, it backfired.

SC = hope. As in, hope.

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"Is there any base for a perjury charge in all this? And if so, for whom??

"Posted by: BluestateRedhead
Date: May 2, 2007 03:21 PM"

Most obviously, obstruction of justice. In testoimony to Congress by such as Elston, perjury and obstruction of justice.

Lam was clearly an experienced pro, and efficient.

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"You folks are missing an important point here--Bork tendered his resignation immediately after carrying out the order. In other words, what Bork did was fall on his sword for the people below him in the Department of Justice. He knew that if he resigned without firing Cox, then the next person would have to do the same, and so on, leaving the Department without any senior leadership. The only solution was to carry out the order and resign in protest.

"Posted by: Historian
Date: May 3, 2007 07:59 PM"

BS. He could have done exactly as did Richardson and Ruckleshaus. Instead, he went along to get along -- then covered has ass.

His being a fruitloop is not a result of his being a "victim".

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This whole episode is saddening. Lam is clearly a seasoned pro, believes in the rule of law, has integrity, and was efficient.

And she didn't even get the courtesy of even a lie as to why she was being fired.

All of us are the poorer for it.

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