I guess if the soldiers call it a civil war, then it must be a civil war. Gee, Dubya calls it sectarian blah blah blah. Idiot.

I just sent a link of this page to a friend who sent me an email of some moronic "we're so great cause we're fighting your war" story. People just don't want to believe that this "war" isn't as glorious as we're told it is.

At least the Democrat controlled Congress supports the lives of our troops.... oh, I forgot. that was just rhetoric.

I had a (then-conservative) buddy in Iraq (Balad) in 2004. He wrote at the time that in his company at least, most were pro-Kerry. So please, let's not embrace some revisionism about how 100% united the troops were until only recently.

With so little support among the troops, withdrawal should be a sure given at once.
With so little support from Congress, withdrawal should be a sure given at once. With so little support from the people, withdrawal should be accomplished by now.
Meanwhile, because of a little boil on this nations' nose called the maladministration, we remain, bringing home increasing numbers of our troops' remains.
Time to lance the boil. Where's the lance?

With so little support among the troops, withdrawal should be a sure given at once.
With so little support from Congress, withdrawal should be a sure given at once. With so little support from the people, withdrawal should be accomplished by now.

To which we can add, recent polls and surveys indicate that the continued US occupation of Iraq has little support among the Iraqi population, and recently even among the Iraqi legislature. With so little support from the country, ending the occupatino should be accomplished ASAP.

It is heartbreaking to see what we have asked our soldiers to do..we learned nothing from Viet Nam, it is so sad. I really do not know how the MSM sleeps at night. I blame them the most, where was the opposition to power in the first place?I wish the whole country would go on stike and refuse to watch or read "fake News"

It is heartbreaking to see what we have asked our soldiers to do..we learned nothing from Viet Nam, it is so sad. I really do not know how the MSM sleeps at night. I blame them the most, where was the opposition to power in the first place?I wish the whole country would go on stike and refuse to watch or read "fake News"

"...and those giant military bases they've been building..."

Yeah, and that 'largest of all American Embassy compounds in the entire world' that is underway.

Why doesn't the MSM (or Democratic Congressional leaders) speak up on these issues?

Once again, the several $TRILLIONS of petroleum reserves is, of course, the answer....no wonder the Iraqi 'people' (Shi'ites, Sunnis, Kurds, all of them) want us out of there.

C. Davie

I agree with Potato Head. I recall lots of stories from 2003, 2004, 3005, that morale had tanked. Is this the NYT's version of Saddam wouldn't let me in?

SC: Degree. Make your own joke.

Unfortunately war is mostly portrayed as nobel, appealing to primordial tribal instincts. War is brutal, war is destructive, war serves the interests of old men and women who send young men and now women to die and be maimed to serve their interests.

What is nobel is peace and conservation of the planets resources.

The obvious answer to all this has been around for a long while.
To read the sex scandals, it is obvious that Politicans are testosterone-heavy,

SOoooo---

Lysistrata! (SP?)

Go, Peloski! Lead the charge! I just know Hillary is
in ....

The war would be _O-ver_!

What possibly could go wrong?

And guess what? These soldiers are writing and calling home and telling their families that it's not worth it anymore. And those families are telling their friends that Jim or Jane doesn't think it's worth it anymore. And this is happening in the most conservative communities in the country.

So when Democrats stick to their guns and say it's time to get out now, that message gets traction. Which is what the Republicans are afraid of.

The really sad part is that we don't seem to be learning anything from this conflict. First, that the neocon policy of "pre-emptive" invasions aimed at regime change, nation-building, and trying to force-feed democracy simply doesn't work and goes against the long held ideals of our country. While pre-emptive strikes against specific targets or groups may be necessary at times in today's world, it must be used as a last resort and when all other alternatives have failed.

Secondly, I hope this war also leads to a discussion of the need for a draft. In my opinion, it is a disgrace the way one small segment of our society has been asked to bear the brunt of this conflict while nothing is asked of the bulk of the population and the wealthy actually get tax cuts. Add to this the profiteering and abuse by Halliburton and others with close ties to this administration represents malfeasance, if not outright traitorous behavior.

Finally, are we willing to sacrifice our rights and freedoms for the sake of a feeling of security? The fear mongers on the right obviously believe so, but I hope our country resists this temptation. The fact is that there is only one way the "terrorists win" ... if they get us to willingly give up the ideals that have guided this nation for over two hundred years.

We all know the strange but true fact that for the last six years our government has been in the hands of people who hate government. The Bush Administration’s mania for privatization—from charter schools to Blackwater—represents their attempt to shrink government down to drowning size (while lining the pockets of their corporate masters).

And by now we also all know that this same cabal of government haters bullied their way into Iraq under the misguided notion that their version American-style governance could be easily exported to—and would be warmly welcomed by—the Iraqi people.

So what happens when Bush’s small government model is imposed upon Iraq at the barrel of a gun? An article in today’s LA Times, “Stalled justice is just one of Ramadi’s woes,”connects the dots:

“U.S. officials here agree that an attempt to privatize 200 state-run Iraqi businesses, including a ceramics factory in Ramadi, only worsened unemployment. The privatization process halted subsidies for the factories, resulting in their decline and failure to attract bidders. Half a million workers were left jobless when they closed.”

And how did this arrogant mistake play itself out on the ground in Ramadi? According to Deputy Undersecretary of Defense Paul A. Brinkley:

“A huge reason for all the violence here is unemployment. People have to feed their families. Some are doing it with the $200 they get to plant IEDs.”

Something to keep in mind when we read about our brave soldiers being blown to bits in Iraq.

Whats the difference between the Democratic and Republicon response? Bush says a Democratic timeline of withdrawal tells the insurgents to just wait until we leave and THEN take over Iraq. But doesn't the Republicon response of giving the Iraqi gov't till September tell the insurgents to kill as many of our soldiers and Iraqi's to force America to leave? Why isn't Bush and his cabal held to respond to their emboldening of those they call terrorists?

to me, it sounds like the troops aren't supporting the troops. they should be strung up as traitors!

(just trying to show how stupid the right wing talking points are. any criticism of the war lets the troops down, right? well what happens when the troops criticize the war?)

Some say we learned nothing from Viet Nam. I find that ridiculous.

Me and a million others who marched around the White House before this war learned that occupation is folly.
And our President and Vice President who found easy living and good money in Viet Nam seemed to have learned that they will not pay the price no matter how foolish the policy.

ANON...you say it is the dumbest thing you have ever heard? I wish you had followed up with a "why" you think so.

But, I'll give you my follow up anyway:
Your response seems to presume they would just leave their oil in the ground and not sell it to anyone. While that may not be the dumbest thing I have ever heard, do you imagine they don't like oil or understand profit as much as we do? (they're just camel jockeys, right?)

Maybe you object to "fair price". Okay, substitute "market price".

Again, ANON, what good does the oil do the arabs if they leave it in the ground? What good does it do them if they get only 10% of what other nations get for their oil?
We want their oil, they want to sell it to us. We can do this transaction without killing anyone.
The problem is, big oil and the bushies want to STEAL it.

Have you even read the present Iraqi oil bill?
The devil is in the details....

Love to the troops. I love 'em enough to not want to waste them...unlike our fearless, non-military experienced leaders.
Xman

The President and his puppeteer have proven time and again that they couldn't give a damn what the American people think. He is on some messianic mission that blinds him to the realities and consequences of his actions. The puppeteer is so inebriated with the wealth he and his friends at Haliburton are awash in that he couldn't possibly end the war and turn off the spigot prematurely (read, during the tenure of the Bush "debaclecy"). The dark side has won for now.

Another thing, those who fail to see how the Democrats failed us on the war funding bill are totally bamboozled as well. While it is true the democrats cannot override a veto, they had no obligation to pass any supplemental war funding bill. Pelosi could have refused to bring it to the floor of the House and declared, "The war is over Mr. Bush, it's over, bring our men and women home." They were elected for that purpose and they failed to stand upto to the dark side. How demoralizing, and this from a life long liberal democrat.

i think about 80% of military families voted for Bush - both times. so they got what they wanted.
a stupid incompetent war run by an ignorant, wastral son of a rich man.

i think about 80% of military families voted for Bush - both times. so they got what they wanted.
a stupid incompetent war run by an ignorant, wastral son of a rich man.

i think about 80% of military families voted for Bush - both times. so they got what they wanted.
a stupid incompetent war run by an ignorant, wastral son of a rich man.

i think about 80% of military families voted for Bush - both times. so they got what they wanted.
a stupid incompetent war run by an ignorant, wastral son of a rich man.

Well, this is certainly the perfect situation for W: stall the civil war long enough until the Dems take the White House. His hands stay just clean enough for a quiet exit raking tumbleweed at the ranch. And when all hell breaks loose after our pullout, the Republican shills can say, "see, we told you so" and then spin it politically. Lovely.

Now that the bill funding daily Iraqi operations has passed, Democrats in Congress should propose another bill covering the cost of redeploying our troops out of Iraq, at some unspecified time in the future.

Purpose?

A rainy day fund. Instantly available once the order is given. Placed in a lockbox. A "support the troops" bill.

Of course, Bush and Cheney will veto this bill, because they literally don't have any "exit strategy" for our troops in Iraq, especially any "exit strategy" for redeploying ALL of our troops out of Iraq.

But all this Democratic bill would do is set aside funds to cover the expense of getting our troops out of harms way. It would not affect the day to day operational funding of the war in Iraq. This is solely an "end game" bill.

A bill which would severely undercut the Republican talking point that if enough Democrats and Republicans in Congress defund Bush's Iraq War, they'll be abandoning our troops in Iraq.

Nope. The cost of redeploying our troops out of Iraq has already been funded and is just waiting to be accessed and used for that purpose, Democrats can say.

This is why Bush and Cheney will veto such a bill. They won't want any funds set aside specifically allocated for removing our troops from Iraq, because they have no intention of ever removing ALL our troops from Iraq.

If Democrats in Congress, though, do what I suggest, then finally the "big lie" will be put to Bush and Cheney's claim (as well as all rubber-stamp Republicans) that they "support the troops."

What is everyone complaining about? The war has been a huge success. Haliburton received a no-bid, cost plus contract from its former CEO, now vice president, Cheney. No conflict of interest here. The stock values have gone up, up, up. Why have they moved headquarters to Dubai? Maybe it doesn't have extradition with the US. And if we leave with our tail between our legs, Haliburtion will want to work with China. They already work with Iran, even with sanctions (they use a shell subsidiary corporation).

Blackwater forces get paid a fair market price for what they do. And these soldiers can quit, if the work become morally repugnant. Or if feeling caught in a civil war.

The Carlyle Group (George H.W. Bush, Baker, Majors and other State leaders) makes money on war, from both sides typically. War is a great deal for the military-industrial-congress complex.
Everyone is a winner. The empire and American hegemony are reinforced. You really think Democrats or Republicans want to upset the campaign funding apple cart? It is too hard to raise money from the little guy voters.

If we can stabilize Iraq, we can get the oil law put in place so our oil companies have legal right to at least half the oil. And we have our largest embassy in Iraq, as well as, military bases as permanent as any. We need cheap soldiers to enforce US hegemony and protect corporate interests for years to come.

We are to blame for this. We want the empire/ military-industrial-congress complex. It protects us. We have the nukes and we don't think anyone else should. It keeps us wealthy at the cost of "slave" labor elsewhere. It provides cheap oil to keep the economy going. Do you want to pay $10/gal for gasoline, if we lose supplies here and there. Should we pay for the war as we go with a $40/gal tax or just pass it on to the next generation. So we should just keep it going, making more and more sophisticated weapons to keep ahead of the ones we give or sell to leaders like Sadaam.

Remember Noam Chompsky says to ask: "Is America its people or its corporations?" You get a better understanding of what is going on.

I've had it with the empire. Have you? Love your enemy!

"At least the Democrat controlled Congress supports the lives of our troops.... oh, I forgot. that was just rhetoric.

"Posted by: johnnydoughey
Date: May 28, 2007 11:00 AM"

You're politically illiterate, and full of shit.

And: it Democrat_IC_.

The Democrats do not yet have the votes to override vetoes. What you demand as a bill would be _VETOED_, ass, while prescious time would be lost.

The "mainstream" media, and the uninformed, such as you, assert that the bill passed was a "victory" for Bushit, and that the Democrats "caved". Those are not the facts.

1. The Democrats forced Bushit to compromise -- a first in six years. That in itself is a major accomplishment.

2. The bill includes domestic spending Bushit opposed. That includes monies for veterans affairs. And, it includes an increase in the minimum wage.

3. As it comes closer to next years elections -- September of this year at latest -- the Democrats will have more votes in support of their initiatives because REPUBLICANS will begin to realize that, if they want to be re-elected, they must join those initiatives.

Those being the facts -- that the Democrats don't yet have sufficient votes to do as you demand because the Republicans are holding out -- who do you bash? The Democrats.

There's a place where a slew of individuals do nothing but bash Democrats, even when it's the Republicans who desere it. Free Republic. Take your assininity over there; they'll welcome you with open arms -- so long as you don't bash Republicans.

Looking for a solution to this non-sense our military has to endure? There are two ways to enforce the law against the President: Impeachment -- which Congress refuses -- and prosecution.

BIg problem for Bush: His former AG Ashcroft, then a senator said as such: If Congress did not act swiftly, prosecution remains the only option. He assumed Congress would act. Today, we've learned.

Share with the military: There is an option, Congress refuses to impeach. We the People have not taken prosecution of Bush and Cheney off the table. [Click the link below, visit the comments at the end of the blogspot -- and you'll see details, and the specific Ashcroft comments -- plus links and things you can do/send to your friends in the military who are disgusted with this arrogant President.]

Congress' decision to do nothing is meaningless. They refuse to impeach. We the People may prosecute Members of Congress who refuse to enforce and defend the Constitution.

We the People are putting this President's crimes on the table, and can prosecute him. Congress has no power to stop this. Spread the word! Game on for prosecuting this President and Vice President. [Hit the link below for details; skim down to the comments-discussion thread for links, what you can do, and things that will support prosecuting this President and VP.]

Note: Comments above are _not_ from nolo, the blogowner.

Posted by: JNagarya
Date: May 29, 2007 01:08 AM

Thank you for your focus and attention. Could you pass the link below, it is a solution to enforcing the law against the President. Yes, congrss may have refused to impeach, but We the People have not refused to prosecute.

Thank you.

[Skim down to the comments in the link below/blogspot for discussion on prosecuting Bush and Cheney outside impeachment.]

"The Arabs need to be put in their place which is the 7th century. I'd nuke every oilwell they own. Necessity is the mother of invention.

"Posted by: Jason
Date: May 28, 2007 03:35 PM"

The Arabs are in their place: the Middle East, where they live and have all along belonged. It's the US that is out of line.

Or are you another of those low self esteem bigots who cannot admit that the US can -- and does, often knowingly -- do that even the US calls wrong?

SC = brain. As in, A word which is foreign to you.

"This is really depressing but most of these soldiers who are finally facing up to reality would have answered only a few months ago: "The damn queer Democrats just want to cut and run" or "The goddamn fag liberals are undermining this war just like they did Vietnam". Now that a few soldiers are waking up, suddently the media gets all flushed and says "Now this has some credibililty, we better pay attention to these wise sages". Yet the thousands of so-called evil liberal elitists predicted years ago all the exact problems we are encountering. But the truth was too hard to face then, as it still is now. America should be ashamed. We all share in this persistance of ignorance and idiocy. Remember, the baffoon Bush was re-elected.

"Posted by: Tom
Date: May 28, 2007 05:37 PM"

Hell, it's my view that those who help advance an illegal war and occupation don't deserve sympathy. They either duped themselves with the means to do so which were handed to them, or they were gung-ho assholes who didn't care about the truth and law, all that mattered being the opportunity to find out what it is like to kill without negative consequences.

I hold the same view about US invovlement in Viet Nam: I knew and dealt with the dupes (still do, at times -- those who cannot admit they were suckered, or otherwise wrong) then, and will doubtless do so again, this time around.

But at present, only 41 per cent of the troops now support the war. And a reason it is still that high is that they only get the war-mongers propaganda as "news". Another is that they have family and freinds who couldn't care less for law, truth, and reality; all that matters is to be gung-ho for anything a Republican president says.

who cares what they have to say about the war? they signed up for it, they willingly participated in it, and they, as soldiers, are the most vociferous in support of this president's disastrous policies. let them stay there - it'll mean fewer votes for whatever decider the republicans nominate this year.

who cares what they have to say about the war? they signed up for it, they willingly participated in it, and they, as soldiers, are the most vociferous in support of this president's disastrous policies. let them stay there - it'll mean fewer votes for whatever decider the republicans nominate this year.