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Cheney on Trip to Ashcroft's Hospital Bedside: "I Don't Recall"
From Dick Cheney's interview tonight with Larry King:
Q In that regard, The New York Times -- which, as you said, is not your favorite -- reports it was you who dispatched Gonzales and Andy Card to then-Attorney General John Ashcroft's hospital in 2004 to push Ashcroft to certify the President's intelligence-gathering program. Was it you?THE VICE PRESIDENT: I don't recall -- first of all, I haven't seen the story. And I don't recall that I gave instructions to that effect.
Q That would be something you would recall.
THE VICE PRESIDENT: I would think so. But certainly I was involved because I was a big advocate of the Terrorist Surveillance Program, and had been responsible and working with General Hayden and George Tenet to get it to the President for approval. By the time this occurred, it had already been approved about 12 times by the Department of Justice. There was nothing new about it.
Q So you didn't send them to get permission.
THE VICE PRESIDENT: I don't recall that I was the one who sent them to the hospital.

That failure to recall is not believable. I for one, conclude that Cheney sent them.
Vice President Rasputin.
July 31, 2007 5:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's obvious how that's not an "I didn't do it". I'm guessing the absence of an outright denial means there's evidence to be found that would indicate he *did*.
It's funny how he insists that the DoJ had approved it so often, despite upper-level DoJ indications that the whole staff was willing to quit over the program. His claim here that "there was nothing new about it" (it clearly being the program) could be trouble for Gonzalez later up the road. He doesn't seem to deny here that the visit was about the TSP (despite the interviewer handing him a prime chance to do so). Odd.
July 31, 2007 5:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wait...I thought the visit WASN'T about the TSP!!!
July 31, 2007 5:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Mr. Cheney, do you remember anything about anyone anywhere yesterday?"
Mr. Cheney: "I don't recall"
"Mr Cheney, how is it possible to have forgotten what just happened?"
Mr. Cheney: "I don't recall your question"
"Mr Cheney, your feigning..."
MC: "If I recall, you're going to Gitmo soon..."
July 31, 2007 5:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
So Cheney is sending the WH counsel and chief of staff to see Ashcroft. Was Bush in his playpen?
July 31, 2007 5:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
He doesn't recall if he sent them to the hospital. The operative word is "hospital."
July 31, 2007 5:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
CHENEY CONFIRMS hospital visit pertains to TSP!
July 31, 2007 5:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Raise Hell!!
July 31, 2007 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
"From Dick Cheney's interview tonight with Dick Cheney"
He's interviewing himself?
July 31, 2007 5:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
What the heck, are they smoking bales of weed at the WH and DOJ or something? None of them can remember anything. Of course. it could also be that terrorists have infiltrated their brains and erased their memories.
Something tells me there's more to this than the Vice President is acknowledging. Just a hunch, though.
Thank God Arlene Specter is on the case!!!
July 31, 2007 5:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
If it was really Bush who sent Gonzo and Card, wouldn't Cheney also refuse to admit that?
July 31, 2007 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Proper headline:
"Cheney does not deny dispatching AGAG and Card to Ashcroft bedside."
If he had a basis to deny, don't ya think he would have remembered that by now?
July 31, 2007 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I repeat: Members of this administration who've been called to testify have repeatedly said, "I do not recall" rather than "I CANNOT recall."
It is a statement of fact that they are not recalling; it says nothing of their ability to recall.
Someone needs to CALL them on their NOT RECALLING!
July 31, 2007 5:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
As others point out, Cheney just confirmed Gonzo's a liar.
July 31, 2007 5:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
It would seem to be a good debate question to ask what the current candidates perspective on the recollection skills of their eventual cabinet members and appointees.
July 31, 2007 5:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cheney denies he said things even when there is a video record. So, not recalling is more of an innovation for him, inspired perhaps by his admiration for the sterling peformances of his buddy Al Gonzales.
July 31, 2007 5:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
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July 31, 2007 5:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think Cheney just threw Gonzo to the perjury wolves by confirming(by not denying) there was not another program.
Why does Cheney feel compelled to give an interview now?
July 31, 2007 5:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gee, and why would we expect Cheney to remember ? This whole thing is a crock of merde!
July 31, 2007 5:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please tell me that "The dog ate my brain" defense is not going to fly. How can these people, at these levels of power and responsibility, expect us to accept such a bullshit excuse? Once the evidence comes out. "Oh, I did it, you say, and you have evidence? Well, all right then, I did it, I guess." When are the Democrats going to hold a vote on HR 333 and impeach Dick Cheney? When are the Democrats going to grow a spine and realize that the republic is at stake?
July 31, 2007 5:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have trouble remembering things after I've been drinking, too.
July 31, 2007 5:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. Cheney just destroyed the "technical" and "legalistic" distinction that AG's defenders were relying on. That had to sting.
July 31, 2007 5:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's their attorneys against us (the American people). Can you imagine it has come to this ...
us against them. Them .. being our own government.
We the people does not include our government.
The walls of defense are getting thicker and thicker while coming closer to the end of the road.
Since Bush was not elected in either year of elections for president this administration along with corrupted ideals and objectives
become the sleaziest administration in history.
Just trying to make sense of it all
July 31, 2007 5:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wonder if Cheney will "recall" when we execute hime for war crimes, murder, treason, and crimes against the U.S. Consitituion.
July 31, 2007 5:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
It just occurred to me: we're all puzzling over why the VP felt compelled to give an interview, and why he seems to confirm that the program in question on that night was the TSP. Taken together, it seems to add up to 'Cheney wants Gonzalez under a bus, but doesn't want to be liable himself'.
The good news for the OVP is that when he shoots Gonzalez's 'legalism' argument in the face (twice! with the 'it's the same program', and again with the confirmation that it was the TSP under discussion that night), the AG investigations all focus in on perjury. Maybe he's throwing a bone here, hoping to draw attention away from (as the anonymous poster has pointed out recently) the wiretapping and war crimes.
July 31, 2007 6:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
You guys are so cynical. What meeting is Cheney being asked about? See, Cheney may or may not have sent Gonzo to see Ashcroft about the TSP. But, as Gonzo has explained, his meeting wasn't about the TSP.
So, obviously, the meeting Gonzo had wasn't the same one that Cheney may, or may not have, sent him on. With that one, he uh...., may, or may not have, got stuck in traffic or something.
See how simple?
July 31, 2007 6:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cheney loves Cheney, and I don't mean Lynne. He's thrown his own children under the bus so what's some AG named Gonzales matter to him?
July 31, 2007 6:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
KING: So, you just don't remember -- anything?
CHENEY: Well, Larry, I may need something to jog my memory a bit. Would you mind if I took a few drinks, here, and then shot you in the face? It would be a tremendous help.
KING: You came into the studio, armed?
CHENEY: No, not at all. I'll get a weapon from one of my Secret Service detail. I do have my own liquor, though.
.
July 31, 2007 6:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
How could anyone be expected to recall the details of such a recurring event as sending the White House Chief of Staff and the White House Legal Counsel to the hospital room of the U.S. Attorney General for his authorization of a vital national security intelligence operation? Happens every day. The fact that the incident has been the focus of Senate and House hearings and threats of impeachment and perjury investigations don't bolster the idea that maybe the Vice President of the United States is a congenital, pathological liar either.
It won't hurt his approval ratings though - it's mathematically impossible to go lower.
July 31, 2007 6:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
The problem with Cheney's use of TSP here is that it is more parsing. "I was a big advocate, and it had already been approved 12 times." This says nothing about the contentious program X.
However from Comey's oral and written testimony, there was a singular NSA program and it was obviously not called TSP.
Oral:
SPECTER: So the president backed you up. And it was necessary to make changes in the terrorist surveillance program to get the requisite certification by the acting attorney general -- that is you?
COMEY: And I may be being overly cautious, but I'm not comfortable confirming what program it was that this related to.
Written=
Schumer: You testified that during the visit to Attorney General Ashcroft’s hospital room on the evening of March 10, 2004, Mrs. Ashcroft was present when you first arrived and also later when Messrs. Gonzales and Card arrived.
Did you reveal classified information in Mrs. Ashcroft’s presence?
No.
Did either Mr. Gonzales or Mr. Card reveal classified information in Mrs. Ashcroft’s presence?
Mr. Card did not. I do not recall whether Mr. Gonzales mentioned any aspects of the matter that would be considered classified, including the name of the program – which was itself classified, as I recall – when addressing Mr. Ashcroft.
One program, with a classified name.
That name was not TSP, judging by Comey and Mueller (He also refused to acknowledge words TSP) testimony.
This whole TSP bullshite is a fake construct to allow this admin to continue lying.
July 31, 2007 6:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Notice how when King starts the question and you get to the point where you can anticipate what he's going to ask, Cheney starts blinking furiously. Is that a tell, or what?
July 31, 2007 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yup, something of a smoking gun. AG claims that his hospital visit to Ashcroft did not pertain to the Terrorist Surveillance Program. Cheney contradicts him.
July 31, 2007 6:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes Mad Dog it is. His lying is so woeful, that I'm looking for the setup. That and taking the bait on Hillary... either he's going soft or
they're really feeling cornered.
July 31, 2007 6:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I happen to recall that cheney is a lying mf scumbag. Thank you.
July 31, 2007 6:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think there's a reason to conlude Dick sent him.
Somebody--probably from the Bush admin--leaked a story to the times of New York saying that Cheney sent Abu to see the sick guy. Then Cheney can neither confirm nor deny this.
This is obfuscation. It's a smokescreen. A misdirection. Pure and utter BS.
July 31, 2007 6:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
TPM mentions that king implies that cheney is lying. where is that scene on the tape? i could not find it.
sure, we know that cheney is lying, but for a softie like king to say it on TV would be a new ballgame.
when king asked cheney about his famous "last throes of resistance, the VP more or less admitted that he had been wrong.
why didn't king say- well, you were so wrong about that, so why should we believe anything you say!
July 31, 2007 6:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
TPM mentions that king implies that cheney is lying. where is that scene on the tape? i could not find it.
sure, we know that cheney is lying, but for a softie like king to say it on TV would be a new ballgame.
when king asked cheney about his famous "last throes of resistance, the VP more or less admitted that he had been wrong.
why didn't king say- well, you were so wrong about that, so why should we believe anything you say!
July 31, 2007 6:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's the newes White House lingo:
I don't recall = I am guilty as sin but won't admit it.
That was a YES.
July 31, 2007 6:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Isn't anyone bothered by Larry King's remark to Wolf Blitzer at the end, when he say something like "That's the beauty of our job... All we do is push the plate out there." Their job is to dig and probe. But evidently they see themselves as glorified butlers!
July 31, 2007 6:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks to NBC's Kelly O'Donnell, we have the president's (much more verbose) evasion on this topic on file. In short, while Cheney says "I don't recall", Bush says, "I'm not going to talk about it. I think the stink comes from Bush.
Think Progress has the link:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/17/bush-comey-dodge/#comment-3808960
"Q: There’s been some very dramatic testimony before the Senate this week from one of your former top Justice Department officials who describes a scene that some Senators called stunning, about a time when the warrantless wiretap program was being reviewed. Sir, did you send your then chief of staff and White House counsel to the bedside of John Ashcroft while he was ill to get him to approve that program, and do you believe that kind of conduct from White House officials is appropriate?
"BUSH: Kelly, there’s a lot of speculation about what happened and what didn’t happen. I’m not going to talk about it. It’s a very sensitive program. I will tell you that one, the program was necessary to protect the American people and it’s still necessary, because there’s still an enemy that wants to do us harm, and therefore I have an obligation to put in place programs that honor the civil liberties of the American people — a program that was, in this case, constantly reviewed, and briefed to the United States Congress. And the program, as I say, is an essential part of protecting this country, and so there will be all kinds of talk about it. As i say, I’m not going to move the issue forward by talking about something as highly classified subject. I will tell you, however, that the program was necessary.
Q: Was it on your order, sir?
BUSH: As I said, the program is a necessary program that was constantly reviewed and constantly briefed to the Congress. It’s an important part of protecting the United States, and it’s still an important part of our protection, because there’s still an enemy that would like to attack us, no matter how calm it may seem in America, an enemy lurks and they would like to strike. They would like to do harm to the American people, because they have an agenda. They want to impose an ideology. They want us to retreat from the world. They want to find safe haven, and these just aren’t empty words. These are the words of al Qaeda themselves, and so we will put in place programs to protect the American people that honor the civil liberties of our people and programs that we constantly brief to Congress."
Code word: flag, as in the one we'll reclaim by following this story.
July 31, 2007 6:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know you are in trouble when Larry King calls you a liar...
July 31, 2007 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, how I wish Bush had said, "The stink comes from Bush."
Alas, the quote was "I'm not going to talk about it.
July 31, 2007 6:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Re: glennpdx
If Bush as lost Larry King, he's lost Middle Viagra.
July 31, 2007 6:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Re: glennpdx
If Bush has lost Larry King, he's lost Middle Viagra.
July 31, 2007 6:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nahhh, nobody ordered anyone to do anything.
Why Gonzo and WhataCard just took it upon themselves to try to take advantage of a sick man on a whim. They were sitting around having a few drinks and said, "You know, let's go see our good old friend Johnny and, hey, while we're there there's a voice in my head saying it would be a good idea to get him to sign-off on this ease-dropping thing."
Sounds completely plausible to me.
July 31, 2007 7:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where's Ashcroft on all this? I know he was medicated but I'm sure he could add something too this.
July 31, 2007 7:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Some of the terms used to describe program(s) in public statements include:
Communications Intelligence
Domestic Electronic Surveillance
Early Warning Detection System
Electronic Surveillance
Enhanced Surveillance Procedures
International Communications Surveillance Program
NSA Electronic Surveillance Operations
Signals Intelligence Activities
Special Access Programs
Total Information Awareness (TIA) Program
Terrorism Information Awareness Program
Terrorist Surveillance Program
Warrantless Domestic Surveillance Program
Warrantless Electronic Surveillance
Warrantless Foreign Intelligence Surveillance
Warrantless Searches
Warrantless Surveillance
Warrantless Surveillance Program
Then there's the programs in the Information Awareness Office (IAO) that have shifted to the DoD and NSA...there's a list over at Wikipedia but I have no idea if it's accurate.
July 31, 2007 7:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
--"I was a big advocate of the Terrorist Surveillance Program, and had been responsible and working with General Hayden and George Tenet to get it to the President for approval."
Ah, now we know why Tenet got the Medal of Freedom, it was for helping Bush and Cheney, and Tenet himself to violate their un-respective oath of office to uphold the US Constitution.
Hey, why don't we just re-name it - the Medal of NO Freedom. Tenet just wanted to spit on all the dead buried in Arlington. I sure for Tenet, sacrifice is only for the poor and stupid, and every CIA agent who has ever died in service, did so with Tenet spitting on him.
July 31, 2007 7:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
At the time of the bedside visit, Gonzales was not Attorney General, he was White House Counsel, and Andrew H. Card Jr., was Bush's chief of staff.
These two positions, plus Bush being suspected to have been the person who telephoned Mrs. Ashcroft, imply that Bush sent them to the hospital. (Right after Cheney told Bush to.)
July 31, 2007 7:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I like how he looked down while answering the question and then immediately looked at Larry when done. If that didn't constitute a tell I don't know what would.
SC: bent, as in Cheney telling the American people to get bent.
July 31, 2007 7:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
ArtJ wrote: "So Cheney is sending the WH counsel and chief of staff to see Ashcroft. Was Bush in his playpen?"
No, Bush had a high-level Above Top Secret meeting with his friend John Daniels...although you know him as Jack.
Code = brain, as in "fried brain sandwiches", (not only a popular German dish but) what happens when you watch Gonzales lie over and over, and then Cheney lie over and over. Pass the mayonnaise.
July 31, 2007 7:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, waterboard Cheney Halliburton. (Dictator Bush has ruled that waterboarding is not torture and is an acceptable CIA tactic, so my comment is allowable.)
Cheers,
Lori R. Price
Mgr., Citizens For Legitimate Government
http://www.legitgov.org/
July 31, 2007 7:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, a little dog bite on his nuts might improve his recollection. How about a little waterboarding? How about smearing a kotex on his face? Maybe a banana up his ass? Maybe pounded to death upside down in a sleeping bag? How about just hoping around naked in a freezing room. Blaring music 24/7? Bright white light 24/7?
Hey, it's all government approved stuff, right?
July 31, 2007 7:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cheney instructed Bush to call Mrs. Ashcroft and then send GOnzo and Card to strong-arm Ashcroft before all the top attorneys at DOJ quit. That's how it works over there. Recall how Cheney instructed Bush to stay away from D.C. after 9/11 while he ran everything. It's true.
As for all these different program names, can't we cut the BS and call it what it is/was: The Warrantless Domestic Spying Program (WDSP).
code: MEMORY = I Won't Recall
July 31, 2007 8:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sound positively Agnewesque to me.
July 31, 2007 8:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sure sounds like good old Spiro Agnew to me.
July 31, 2007 8:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
mo2,
you are right. President Cheney ordered Bush to send them. Bush isn't smart enough to have even thought of it. Has anyone noticed that Bush looks like Barney Fife on steroids?
July 31, 2007 9:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Watch Cheney's eyes as he begins to comprehend the question King is asking and realizes he has to lie--- the blinking accelerates markedly. (He also clenches his jaw as the realization sinks in). Interestingly enough, this is probably an indication that Cheney is human.
July 31, 2007 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is phenomenal! The Bushies now can't even survive the soft scrutiny of Larry King.
July 31, 2007 9:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, if you can't count on Larry King for a meaningless softball interview, who can you trust? I think Cheney will be sticking with Limbaugh for any remaining interviews.
July 31, 2007 10:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Impeach Cheney . Then slow walk Cheney's criminal investigations until 2009 so Dubya cannot pardon his sorry shriveled ass.
( Austin Cooper you made me laugh out loud with your bit about THE VEEP on Larry King- )
Cheney is the Nexus- sure wish there was a way to get Fitzgerald's mandate to investigate the outting of the Brewster Jennings network expanded to include the OVP -Like to see Fitz get a piece Addington & then Philbin ,,,
July 31, 2007 10:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cheney and his secret energy task force are responsible for the iraq occupation because the only reason they engineered the invasion of iraq was to "privatize Iraq's oil. He is a war criminal and belongs in prison.
July 31, 2007 10:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
The person who should be deposed is Mrs. Ashcroft. She was the one who warned Comey, and she was in the room. She knows who made call. I'm a little surprised no one has talked with her.
July 31, 2007 10:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Every Democratic presidential candidate must be asked these questions: (1) If you are elected, will you waive executive privilege for any and all documents and for testimony of any and members the Bush II administration? (2) If you are elected, will you investigate & prosecute any and all members of the Bush II administration for any and all violations of the law?
It is important to remember that only the sitting President can assert executive privilege. Hence, the next President can shine a bright light on Bush II, punish wrong doing, and make absolutely certain that the historical record is complete.
July 31, 2007 10:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cheney and his secret energy task force are responsible for the iraq occupation because the only reason they engineered the invasion of iraq was to "privatize Iraq's oil. He is a war criminal and belongs in prison.
July 31, 2007 10:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I don't recall"? That's a hoot.
Can't wait to see what Jon Steward does with this one.
If you can't finesse an interview with Larry King, you're in deep deep trouble.
July 31, 2007 11:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Note that Cheney not only looks down and clenches his jaw when LKL asks about the hospital trip, he then starts out with this: "Well, first of all I haven't seen the story." As if that's relevant.
Here is a link to the McConnell letter that supposedly helps exonerate Abu G. It's crap.
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/07/31/31.july.2007.dni.lette.tohon.specter.pdf
Code word "seem" as in "nothing is as it seems."
August 1, 2007 12:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
The entire Bush Administration should be impeached, convicted, and thrown into prison while awaiting excution for treason! How about a series of failed excutions? Oops! Rope a little too long! Or, damn! Not enough electricity to be fatal! Just enough for bad bu