That's called murder. And they knew it. That's why the White House is claiming executive privilege on
those documents. And like everything else,they'll just run out the clock.

The code word to enter to prevent the auto response
was snake. How appropriate

Like Jon Stewart said a couple of weeks ago, "People ask how you deal with it all, but you do. Now, I'm not saying that when I'm eighty or something someone will offer me a glass of milk and I won't just have a complete breakdown right there..." or something to that effect.

I bring this up because, at this point, I just don't know how much more I can handle. I so hope this isn't true.

P.S. -- My "security code" to post this is "PAIN". So much pain...

.

This is simply the most venal, criminal, mendacious, incompetent, anti-constitutional, larcenous, immoral administration in our history. I have serious doubts if the Republic will survive these bastards. My outrage is long since worn down. Oh. So they covered up the murder of a "hero". I'm shocked. Shocked.

How many people have these assholes killed? Not only in their illegal war, but by simple incompetence and greed. We will never know how many innocents died in the days after Katrina.

Way to go, Supremes. You appointed a brown shirt mafia to helm our nation.

Pray for an election, folks. Any election. These assholes are totally capable of faking a terrorist attack and imposing martial law.

party-of-one asks: "Are the charges of perjury, obstruction and aiding/abetting-after-the-fact coming?"

No...

(This has been another episode of "Simple Answers to Simple Questions"...With apologies to Atrios)

We need an end game. Impeachment is not going to happen and the only real power the congress has right now is the ability to investigate and subpoena.

Here is a scenario that I think could have an impact both politically and legally, however the gamble is retaining control of congress (and possibly the WH).

Start the pressure on the smaller players of criminal indictment after 2009, letting them know that this is just the discovery phase that will play out over the next year and a half. Use the public hearings to keep pounding away at the credibility of the administration, every time the AG testifies he looks like he is lying. When the WH states in a letter that they will not prosecute they look corrupt, let them claim executive privilege until the cows come home.

Craft the corruption gently into he 2008 election agenda something like responses “well yes, if crimes were committed then I would have to do my sworn duty to refer them to prosecution.” Don’t overplay but keep the message that this is not over when the current administration leaves office.

Pound, pound, pound away behind the scenes at the Sara Taylor’s, Kyle Sampson’s and Monica Goodling’s and others that their jeopardy is just beginning. Bring them back up to testify, sue them in civil court squeeze them until they start telling the whole truth.

Keep dividing the Republicans in congressional races, let them keep saying “no crimes were committed, this is all partisan politics”, that credibility ship has already sailed. Shape the issue to Constitutional powers and equality under law, keep calm and stay focused.

I am willing to be more patient if I know that the wheels are turning and that accountability will happen. The president may never suffer criminally but at least we can make him a king with no kingdom and I'll settle for destroying the enablers and burning the village of deceit to the ground.

Wasn't Tillman a Ranger, not Special Forces?

Stunning to contemplate? I'm not surprised at all, unfortunately. The military has and will lie about anything. Perpetual war is the goal here.

LOOK FOLKS THIS IS WAR THIS SHIT HAPPENS. IN WW1 AND 2 YOU JUST DIDN'T HAVE ALL FACTS. WHAT THE VITENAM VETS ,WHO WERE KILLING ONE ANOTHER,AGAIN ITS WAR FOLKS!!!!!!!!!

perjery resulted "execution" of an innocent person can receive a capital punishment in Singapore..
lucky dud only lost one of his star...

Sounds like the "stop sniveling" comment was part of the original story and was left in as the story morphed. Like J Green said, it contradicts the rest of it. As for not being well-liked in the unit, that may be - but how often does that lead to fragging among troops who are supposed to be among the most highly trained in the world? If that is what happened did the shooter(s) not understand how much spotlight would be turned on them, killing the poster boy? I'm deeply suspicious of this incident, especially considering Generals were willing to risk their careers to cover it up. If Pat Tillman came back and started talking, he would have a big microphone and the ear of all those potential recruits.

look i did not say its right but this stuff happens in war, you said i wouldn't want to be in your unit,so what!!!! i been there sererveal times 2nd battalion 6th marines,it happens what can you do! who knows the truth.

2mart: that is the worst idea, but it looms....

For the seeming inconsistency of a comment of "stop snivelling" and no sign of enemy fire, it could be that they were preparing to depart on a dangerous mission and not all were feeling up to the mission.

Just a thought.

There's a huge amount of anecdotal evidence from WWI and WWII of men being shot deliberatly and accidentally by members of their own unit, so that, in itself, should not be a major revelation.
What would be, however, is a cover up by a general officer.
It could become a metaphor for this Bush misadventure even though most persons who now oppose the attack on Iraq, feel the invasion of Afganistan was justified.

Also, while fragging and friendly fire accidents do occur, how often does the victim get to be called a hero?

How often are they issued silver stars for being killed by their fellow soldiers, intentional or not?

The chaplain's testimony has to be taken with a grain of salt in light of the Army's antipathy towards the atheism of the Tillman family.

The 75th Ranger Regiment is part of the USASOC, as is the SFC. Tillman was a Ranger, not SF.

Greg, stop sniveling

"The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman's death from his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that HE HAD A BAD MEMORY and couldn't recall details of his actions."

Spoken like a true Republican

bush didn't kill tillman ,what the fk

Greg you said...
"when you join you take the oath,no one made him join there is no draft ,war has a way of weeding through the weak".

Correct, and usually when soldiers MURDER fellow soldiers, they face the consequences for their actions. I seem to remember a certain soldier rolling a grenade into his officer's tent at the beginning of the Iraq war...was he allowed to go free and the officer's killed and wounded, did they get citations for heroism?

It sounds like the weakling would be the fellow that killed a fellow volunteer.

why would you want to touch me,you gay blade,you call it sniveling i call it bullshit ,tillman is the only one over that died ,

Greg, your contempt for Pat Tillman, and those of us who believe the truth about his death should be exposed, is breathtaking. Your attempted excuses says a lot about your lack of patriotism. Remember, your oath was to the Constitution, not the Commander in Chief.

The last couple of grafs in the piece are interesting...the story changes and I don't really believe either one of them.

It has been widely reported by the AP and others that Spc. Bryan O'Neal, who was at Tillman's side as he was killed, told investigators that Tillman was waving his arms shouting "Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat (expletive) Tillman, damn it!" again and again.

But the latest documents give a different account from a chaplain who debriefed the entire unit days after Tillman was killed.

The chaplain said that O'Neal told him he was hugging the ground at Tillman's side, "crying out to God, help us. And Tillman says to him, `Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God's not going to help you; you need to do something for yourself, you sniveling ..."

Greg, Wrong again. Grew up in a military family, and I'm the mother of two sons, but if words like gay help you, whatever. Two of my brothers are retired officers and they don't believe in cover-ups either.

Has our troll assumed a new identiy?
Inquiring minds want to know.
This kid needs to get a girlfriend and a life.

Shot three (3) times in the forehead? From ten yards away? In a combat fire situation? Let's get a little real folks, that's not what happened

A slight correction: in the second sentence, Tillman is described as being in a "Special Forces unit" in Afghanistan. In fact, Tillman was in a Ranger unit. He was not in the Special Forces, which are separate and distinct from the Army's conventional infantry forces (even those such as the Rangers, which have additional training and generally get "long-range" missions). The Special Forces, informally referred to as the "Green Berets," are unconventional forces trained to work in small teams with local forces doing long-term counter-insurgency missions. They have their own units and chain of command within the Army.

The three holes are significant because the M16 has a three shot setting, so one American could have executed him at close range.

IT'S LIKE THIS FOLKS BECAUSE OF POSTER BOY TILLMAN THE ARMY JUST GOT A BAD WRAP . CONGRESS DIDN'T DO IT,BUSH DIDN'T DO IT!!! LEAVE THE WAR COME HOME AND WHY WE ARE NOT WORKING ON OUR BORDERS OF THE UNITED STATES DON'T CRY ABOUT THE 911 ,,,,,,,OVER,,GREG

Look, the sniveling comment does not contradict anything. The ONLY time someone can snivel is if they're under fire??? I've seen men snivel for a lot less. This soldier could have been whining because he was exhausted, or his socks were wet, or he had just had enough, or he was generally scared about the day ahead. Who knows.

Greg:
It looks like your state of mind has been permanently affected by serving in a war. It is very unfortunate that you had to go through all that. I truly feel your pain and frustration and empathize with you in your struggle.
However, let me see if I understand your point:
According to you, if Tillman was murdered and not killed in action or by friendly fire as initially asserted, we should accept it and move on because it has happened before and because there are more murders per year in the US?
A careful and deliberate cover-up by Pentagon officials should not be investigated just because it happens all the time during war?
Following the same logic:
There have been many corrupt politicians in US history so why should we expect honesty from our elected officials? Just let them get away without investigating because many others did it before!
There have also been many fraudulent elections all over the world, so why should we insist on counting all the votes and demanding transparency?
Simple answer: BECAUSE EVEN IF BAD THINGS HAPPEN ALL THE TIME, THEY ARE WRONG!

April 26, 2004 Randy Crow wrote:

Rove having Pat Tillman murdered to stimulate patriotism is so evil and cowardly the world knows we are living in the time of the antiChrist Beast, Abominations of the Earth, Mother of Prostitutes and Little George is the antiChrist.

Bye, Greg.

if it was a black quarter back in the ghetto some were you life or this article would not happened!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11greg

Democracy Now on Link TV had a clip showing Pat Tillman's murder. He was out in the open yelling"Don't you know who I am?" You could tell he was surprised and it was not friendly fire. Why would there be a video in combat?

exhibit A "In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop "sniveling."

exhibit B "medical examiners questioned the close proximity of three bullet holes in Tillman's forehead, fired from ten yards away.

exhibit C "The three holes are significant because the M16 has a three shot setting, so one American could have executed him at close range."

...anyone else think maybe it sounds like a GI tweaker snapped?

We know amphetamines fueled the fury on the road to Baghdad, it's one more dirty little secret that adds to the total travesty.

So who's protecting the shooter? And why?

if you fucks are so concerned ,go some were kill your self and go meet up with till the poster man and have a couple of beers and ask him what happened !!!!!!!!!!1greg

speaking of GI tweakers that snapped...

Folks I'm really sorry to tell you, but Jake D. is out sick today. Said something about eating a bad gas-station burrito on his way home from the "ManHole" last night.

Anyways, he's down with the IBS, and greg has taken over his dirty, crumb encrusted stool in front of the computer for the day.

carry on...

It's Special "Operations" Command.

Greg:
You are experiencing "Blog rage".
Stop writing, have some Valium and seek some mental health treatment.
[Good luck in your dealings with the VA mental health care system...! For most veterans, that seems to be worse than the war...!]

Pity there is no super-caps-lock key so Greg can shout even louder. Perhaps I'll put in a reader request to Josh.

The real problem, beyond Pat Tillman's death, is that this administration has lied so much and so often that they can't be expected to be telling the truth if they say the sun comes up in the East. Who, besides a fool, trusts a known liar?

The story of PFC Lynch's heroics was an early lie from the war. Anyone who has read about abu Ghraib and knows the military is aware that it was an example of either a command level conspiracy to commit war crimes, or at the very best possible level of spin, it was a total failure of command and control right up to and including the Secretary of Defense.

This is no surprise, either. Every flag officer in the military was chosen by Don Rumsfeld for their ability to kiss ass. Our military no longer has any competent Generals or Admirals, just politicians and suck-ass careerists. And that's exactly what they all did when Tillman was murdered.

Three rounds in the forehead? That was no mistake, no friendly fire incident. Whoever killed Tillman was close enough to kiss him. The cover-up has all the characteristics of a cover-up conducted by flag officers. Too many people have been silenced in too many different places for anyone of lower rank to have done it. They shut down the unit itself and cut off contact with the outside world while they were getting their story straight, they burned Tillman's uniform and armor, and they somehow kept the medical question from triggering a real investigation. Then the CID investigation was shut down. The reach was outside the Special Operations Command. That says "Flag officer involvement."

So does the Silver Star for the victim of a friendly fire incident.

All the evidence that is now trickling out makes it clear that some kind of cover-up occurred. Then go back to my original statement.

This administration cannot be trusted. They are known serial liars. They lie with every out-breath, whether they need to or not.

The claim of Executive Privilege for something that should have been handled in Aghanistan and perhaps Fort Lewis is a dead giveaway. Whatever actually happened to Pat Tillman, it is very likely worse than anything we have seen speculated so far.

Anyone who trusts the idiots in charge right now is a fool. The question is not whether a crime occurred. The question is how many crimes and how bad they were.

CRY BABY CRY BABY WHY BABY WHY BABY DO YOU CRY ,THE G MAN

this blog is the version of nightly news with katie couric were th world is perfect,like her ratings ,,greg

Greg is why I'm not sure we should bring the troops home.

"Nor is it likely he was "fragged" because he was a bit too gung ho. All Rangers are gung ho or they aren't Rangers."

Though to be fair, Rangers by definition shouldn't be snivelling either as Tillman supposedly accused someone of doing....

bush you keep calling him evil empire,look on the back of his head and call me if you see the nubers 666 ,,,greg

seems Karl has outsourced his trolls.

death before dishonor,,none of you folks no nothing greg

any body have a recepie for pot roast ,,greg

I had not heard the speculation about the possible opium connection before today.

The fact that I can even consider it possible is depressing.

No Greg, you've dishonored your uniform by cheering on the death of a decorated war hero. He either deserved the Silver Star or he didn't. You don't even care if he was fragged so murder of your fellow soldiers is okay with you, too. Where's the honor?

I actually do give a damn about Tillman's death, and the death of my friend's son, and the lives of the others I know over there. I still manage to get choked up when I see the list of names they list nightly on the news. I also care when I see a murder happened in my town...the two things are not mutually exclusive.

Yeah, I did learn something today. Trolls will literally say anything to defend their pet war.

god-damned main-stream media

Tillman joined the Army to kill,PERIOD! Pat traded fame and fortune for the chance to kill people. Patriotism had nothing to do with Tillman in Afghanistan.

In a democracy, discoveries such as this and the numerous other inconsistencies and possible illegal activities would have been dealt with according to long standing, well established rules of law and penalties consistent with the crime.

Here in the Animal Farm, the pigs are ALWAYS more equal. Those folks in power are no longer being subject to the same rules that we are, guys. We need to either get used to it or do something about it. So far, we apparently are deciding to keep the two mobs in power.
Once again the Gulf of Tonkin Incident did not occur and the President was a democrat. There were no weapons of mass destruction and the President is a Republican. Our defense budget is $400 billion and this occurs with both administrations.
Both parties continue to protect their members and continue to villify the other party.
Meanwhile, both mobs win and our democracy loses... IMHO

I think Greg is Sully.., their commas are similarly mispalced quite sconsistently.

"we hate,and I" sully18

"no concern,its war like" greg

which one's the sock puppet?

codeword glove... LOL

"UNEMPLOYED BITCH,GREG"

see what I mean?

"Yo Momma was a troll..."

a new classic!!!!

LOL707LOL707LOL

spelling,,,,,, and all this doesn't mount to a hill of beans tillman is deaa by accident,and the truth is one of his comrades done it ,who!!!!! i ask,,, no one got to who did it,fuck the covering up,,,, who did it talk about who did and the mistake they made ,if it was a honest mistake that soldier will live with that the rest of his life that is punishment,,,,,,,,,,,,greg

Yo momma is a troll...

still laughing!!!

codeword mother, you kidders, you

Someone correct if I am wrong, but wasn't Tillman known as "Mad Dog" in the NFL? How many athletes or citizens of any ilk voluntary give up 3-4 mil a year to go fight? (No one was making that kind of money in WW II). Were the three bullets holes in the back of the head? When I was in ROTC there was guy in my squad that was "gung ho" beyond belief, but when he was out of uniform he seemed to be a fairly decent person. There seems to be an unwritten rule in the military that intimidation has consequences.

"Yo mama was a troll,
and yo daddy was a geek,
and yo sister's doing time for hackin' Citibank

Well you shoulda got a job
instead of gettin' a computer,
well you're just a bunch of liberal online smarty-pants."

Viva la blogs!

Greg, go use the military retirement pay calculator at:

http://www.defenselink.mil/militarypay/retirement/calc/01_finalpay.html

Type in his grade and years of service, YOU might be the one that's suprised.

If he was an O-10 with 30 years of service, his retirement pay is $10,500 a month.

i'am surprised a general makes that much retried ,the president makekes a quater million working it don't seem right

BobbyV said:
As it did with the Dept of Justice, this administration has politicized the professional officer corps. From the JCS down through the company level commanders, espousing the Right political viewpoint is the way to ensure glowing performance reports and quick promotions. It will take years to undo the damage inflicted by Bush and company.

Sorry, this one cannot be laid at the feet of the Bush Administration. This is a product of the professional army itself. The officer corps promotes like-minded individuals who do things 'the army way', which reinforces their viewpoint. Also keep in mind that it is traditionally liberals and democrats who look for ways to reduce the size/pricetag of the military, which is seen by many in the military as an attack on their profession, their necessity, and in some cases, their ability to feed their family. Donald Rumsfeld was rather unpopular w/the pentagon before 9/11 for exactly that reason: he wanted to streamline the military, cut back on the 'needless' big-ticket items to focus on those systems the DoD would actually use.

That all changed w/the WTC attack and the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, but the rightward drift of the military officer corps has far less to do with the Bush 43 administration than it does with the fact that most of us don't join up. Of those who do, something like 50% of them are following in the footsteps of a parent. This breeds a strong disconnect between the way most Americans view the military, and the way the military views itself.

What's worse, it breeds as strong a disconnect between what the average American feels about their own position on the military, and how the military feels about those positions.

This, I admit, is not about Tillman's death whatsoever. But it is about the attitudes many of us on the left seem to espouse about the military. Sometimes, I have to wonder if we know what their job is. It's not 'nation building', it's not interdicting opium-traders, it's not even disaster-relief. These are uses we put them to, but they are uses that could be filled by others, if we invested as much in projection-capable civil engineering, police, or humanitarian forces. Instead, we use the military, because we invest so much in it, while always hoping our men and women never need to actually do their job.

Soldiers know what their job is: their job is to kill. They are good at their job, and they like being good at their job. It is not immoral to like being good at your job. It is not immoral to be good at your job. It is not immoral to risk your life by being willing and able to kill on behalf of those who are endangered.

We should never lose sight of that. We should never be unwilling to look that in the eye and say 'I pay someone to be willing to kill another man on my behalf'. If we want the military to not feel like liberals are the enemy, then the first thing we need to be willing to do is understand that they are our military, not the Red Cross, and not the police, not even the federal police. They are our killers. They are the men and women who go out and do the most heinous deed possible at our behest, and on our behalf, and they rightly take pride in their work. They willingly do the things that many of us imagine to be the stuff of nightmares to have on our consciences, that those Americans who would torture themselves over need not.

Honor them. And never, never think of them as anything less.

"Well gosh, the original poster mistakenly confused Rangers with Special Forces, so Pat Tillman's death was a complete accident, and the invasion of Iraq was completely justified."

I'm an Army veteran and a journalist.

Correcting a significant error of fact has what to do with justifying either?

Errors like these allow people to laugh off entire stories, reporters, positions...etc.

And regal disinterest in getting military matters right is one of the surest ways that both the left, and the media, manage to repel otherwise sympathetic servicepeople and veterans.

But well worth the price of admission.

jw1

Could not forensics determine the size, angle of penetration, distance (among other factors) of bullet(s) that hit him? Was not an autopsy performed? If not, why not? If so, how thorough is it? I rather doubt it would be a public document, but someone must have read it and understood it.

We really have no idea what happened.

Face = As in someone trying to help save our national...

Was this an assassination?

"But, according to the AP, medical examiners questioned the close proximity of three bullet holes in Tillman's forehead, fired from ten yards away."

_ No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene _ no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck._

_ The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman's death from his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions.

I don't mean a fragging of an unpopular comrade. That sounds like the usual demonization machine, and why would generals and army attorneys be involved in such a cover-up? I mean a political assassination of someone who'd undoubtedly hurt the administration's war effort.

Why would this not make sense?

_

One possible way to solve this is to disinter the body and have an independent medical examiner do another autopsy.

I believe that Tillman's death was the result of fragging gone bad. Sound like it may be worse than that.

Does anyone recall the reports that his diary went missing after his death? I'd sure love to see what he'd written.

A Few Good TillMen.

3 shots to the forehead?
hmmmm
Well if it was an M4 (an M16 carbine) shooting 223mm high velocity bullets their wouldn't be much of a head left to examine for bullet holes. Or was he shot with a sidearm 9mm?
Something doesn't add up here.

The issue is only partly whether a millionaire ex-pro footballer, who was apparently as skilled a soldier as he was a football player, was murdered. He was a straight arrow; he was against the war and didn't need his paycheck to pay the mortgage or the alimony. Someone in his unit could have lost it.

As bad as that is, the bigger issue is that the Pentagon and the White House covered it up - at the highest levels - and are still covering it up. Why?

Scott Horton did an excellent essay on the "first death" in war. It carries with it all the potent symbolism of nationalism and duty and purpose. A White House run by the dictates of its campaign adviser would not miss it. Tillman's death was apparently the first death, certainly of a nationally known figure who had volunteered and was in the trenches.

Pop quiz: Would Karl Rove elevate Tillman to Olympian status or would he admit that a "nobody" from his unit put three rounds into his forehead because he was drunk or angry or just went crazy? Five seconds.

hey, Greg, you nitwit. Im a combat vet, too. Viet Nam. You sound like one of those clowns who short circuits & starts spinning around shootin sparks gabbling whenever someone says "Jane Fonda".
In OTHER words, you'll say ANYTHING, no matter how stupid, to avoid facin the facts.
Tilmans not a case of a dangerous officer or NCO gettin fragged in self defense. Im all for that, fine by me.
SOMETHING ELSE is behind this, & the stink of shit goes right up to the White House. And its just a small part of a whole, the likes of which this country has never seen.
Now, you want to squawk that more people get killed not wearing seatbelts, or more babies drown in 5 gallon bucxkets than have gotten killed in Iraq, fine.
But you are waaaaaay out of your league here. These folks aint idiots. Go on over to Free Republic or something- youll fit right in.
Code word: PLEASE

3 shots to the forehead?
hmmmm
Well if it was an M4 (an M16 carbine) shooting 223mm high velocity bullets their wouldn't be much of a head left to examine for bullet holes. Or was he shot with a sidearm 9mm?
Something doesn't add up here.

Posted by: Tempest
Date: July 27, 2007 2:15 PM
***********************************
If you watched his father, mother, and brother testify before congress some months ago, you would have heard them say his head was damn near blown off! I wasn't trying to be gross, I was just trying to state the reason why an exhumation (if he wasn't cremated) might not do any good. And yes onoclea, I also heard that his notepad was burned and/or missing (I can't remember which it was)...

Posted by: bison
Date: July 27, 2007 2:24 PM
*******************************
Welcome bison! I totally agree.

LOL Rick B -

Greg as ex-military? Perhaps ex-Webelo. The grammar, spelling and all of the outrageous ranting to apparently garner attention all suggest someone rather young. And even with all of the stories regarding the Army's new "creative" recruiting policies Greg strikes me as a real stretch as a candidate any way you slice it!

In regards to the entire Tillman affair I think it is a prime example of why telling the truth is always the best policy. Friendly fire, while tragic, does happen in combat. And while painful for the family, it can be dealt with honorably. A fellow soldier killing one of their own in an intentional manner is certainly much more difficult to deal with for the family and a stain for the branch. The honorably thing in these kinds of cases is to give the family and the fallen soldier justice. This sort of thing has happened in the past as well so I'm sure there is procedure and precedent for dealing with it. But when you lie what was once one problem becomes 50 of them. And the more people involved the bigger the whole mess becomes. But I suppose bureaucracies have never really been noted for behaving rationally very often, not even accidentally.

On some days the mission is to kill. Other days it is not. The mission is the job.

One problem ignored by the "left" is the increasingly popular belief of some that killing will always get the job done. Vietnam-was-lost-due-to-reluctance-to-kill etc. And, there is an increasingly popular belief that the military has a right to demand a killing mission, rather than a more frustrating mission.

But oftten times, especially in a war on terrorism, killing can guarantee mission failure. A professional doesn't dictate the mission. Those british soldiers stationed in Belfast over nasty decades weren't given the luxury of limiting their mission to killing. They were given a far more frustrating mission. Peacekeeping also requires deadly force.

Early in the war one of the most impressive things I saw (on tv of course) was an army unit confrontation with Shia outside a mosque. The senior officer acted to immediately control the situation. There were plenty of wound up armed men on edge. There was no killing. Instead there was superb professional discipline under life and death pressure by trained killers. That discipline merits respect.

CBGB provides the perfect example for the antipathy. Intimations of inherent intellectual and moral superiority to military folks, and the haughty certainty that he understands, better than those who make a career out of it, what the military needs and how it should use it.

It's not the positions, or the questions, it's the tone. There are many other examples above: "GI tweaker", "Greg is why I'm not sure we should bring the troops home", etc.