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Probable Cause Out the Window in FISA Fix?
This just in, from a knowledgeable source on the FISA-update negotiations:
I understand that the bills they are considering dropped the second requirement of the Rockefeller bill -- that the government must determine whether they're picking up a significant number of calls into the US and get a FISA probable cause warrant if they are.
If so, that would be a big setback for the civil liberties side of the debate. According to the source, further surveillance of communications in the U.S. wouldn’t require a probable cause warrant at all. Instead, the attorney general would have to certify to either FISA, Congress, or both – it’s not clear right now – that the initial surveillance authority granted by the FISA court isn’t being abused. And if that's the case, then the program would allow for massive domestic surveillance with practically no FISA Court review.
The Senate Dems entered into a caucus meeting an hour ago that I understand will lead to some news on the FISA-negotiation front. More soon.
Josh
Zachary
Oh jeebus.
Why doesn't someone introduce a bill that says Bush's title-of-address will be 'Your Imperial Highness' (or Der Fuehrer) and get it over with? It isn't like we haven't been telling them what's going on at the big-picture level. They just refuse to get it.
Blackmail and threats to family keep coming to mind.
August 3, 2007 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm getting completely fed up with the Democratic Leadership over this issue. Thye need to refuse to take any action until they have fully investigated and prosecuted any illegal eavesdropping that has occurred during this administration.
Going forward they should refuse to pass any bill offered by this White House until the President agrees to allow his staff to testify fully in any Congressional inquiry. I would also demand concessions on a quid pro quo bssis for any action the President wants them to take. For instance, if you want to get this bill passed you had better sign s-chip, or the energy bill etc.
They need to grow some balls! They live in fear of Bush's slime machine, but if they want to keep their majority they need to act like the majority party.
August 3, 2007 1:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Congress needs to stop messing with FISA, they absolutely need to stop giving anything at all to this adminstration except for impeachment.
I've been looking into what it would take to recall Nancy Pelosi, and it would be a pretty stiff challenge, but if they make any changes to FISA, I'm going to do whatever it takes to remove her from office. Pelosi is off the table.
August 3, 2007 1:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Call Russ Feingold's office and tell him what state you're from and that you support his efforts to stop this insanity. From what I heard yesterday, he's willing to filibuster if necessary. Call him up. Ask him to do whatever it takes.
August 3, 2007 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dem leadership has that "fear of Cheney" look in their eyes again. No matter how far Bush tacks rightward the Dems think if they stay leftward a few degrees they are doing a good job.
The Democratic leadership are a weak pillar of oatmeal.
August 3, 2007 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does FISA really need a fix? I think the administration could live within the bounds of FISA if it wanted to.
Nothing should be done to FISA until the administration makes a STRONG case with fact to back it up. It their ideas are good for everyone then it will be good for the next administration as well.
Everyone should just chill a bit and take a wait-and-see attitude. Of course Bush will whine and stomp his feet but so what.
August 3, 2007 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
These people need to consult the Constitution of the United States of America - There are provisions for amending it, but Congress doesn't get to do it (they can only propose changes). It takes 3/4 of the STATES to ratify amendments. So, it's time for the States to stand up, and object to Congress' artitrary removal of half the Bill of Rights, in the name of "protecting" us. Only Russ Feingold seems to actually understand this.
August 3, 2007 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wonder what kind of a signing statement they'll come up with .... no matter what the bill says. And of course, how you gonna check? Unless the Audit idea can somehow be required by law as well.
And what secret memo - beyond a signing statement?
It's what we don't know - as a routine thing here - that's the most worrisome.
August 3, 2007 1:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
How stupid are the democrats?
First Boehner says that fisa changes are required now after a fisa judge rules the program illegal - he broke the law sayign this in public by the way - then the dems just happily run off to recess?
Are we being led by MORONS?
sheesh
August 3, 2007 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
PS I've visited many senators' websites, and only Feingold's actually has "Civil Liberties" in its dropdown list of issues to address, when contacting him... He should be drafted for President.
August 3, 2007 1:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
These people need to consult the Constitution of the United States of America - There are provisions for amending it, but Congress doesn't get to do it (they can only propose changes). It takes 3/4 of the STATES to ratify amendments. So, it's time for the States to stand up, and object to Congress' artitrary removal of half the Bill of Rights, in the name of "protecting" us. Only Russ Feingold seems to actually understand this.
Actually 2/3 of BOTH Houses of Congress have to approve a constitutional amendment and only then does it goes to the States to be (or not be) ratified by 2/3 of the State Legislatures.
August 3, 2007 2:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why does FISA need fixed? Screw more demands from Bush. Tell him to act within the law or go to jail.
Bush says it needs fixed! Boehner says it needs to fixed! What does the majority say?
All of this negotiating with the minority party makes one wonder how many times the Democrats signed off on programs they felt were illegal. Democrats sure are willing to roll over. Why?
August 3, 2007 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, of COURSE the Rethugs want to do away with probable cause. As the Post article makes clear, the court said it is perfectly legal to tap calls given probable cause. Ergo, the "fix" is to do away with probable cause.
It seems to me that the Democrats HAVE been resisting this type of change for 8 months, so y'all shouldn't accuse them of capitulating just yet. Although I admit the idea is ominous! Habeas and probable cause are rather key to notions of justice as we have known them...
August 3, 2007 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just posted an urgent request for calls to Feingolds office over at DU. I called his office as well.
Thanks very much for getting this information out to us.
August 3, 2007 2:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm afraid that this is turning into more a process of politics than protecting civil liberties.
Code = rule, As In When You Get Rid Of The Laws, 'They' Rule
.
August 3, 2007 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
After Gonzo's perjury allegations and the FBI's abuse of NSLs, who in their right mind thinks that it's a good idea to let Gonzo 'certify' that FISA authority isn't being abused?
Whatever sort of crack they're smoking in Washington right now, I want some.
August 3, 2007 2:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
You ask a good question, Anna. I can't answer it, but boy.... if they propose gonzo-lies to "protect" our civil rights, they are willing to do or say anything... and assume it's ok.
Scary.
August 3, 2007 3:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
To Angry American:
Here is the information you will need to begin the recall effort against Pelosi. Quite frankly, I think Feinstein should be ousted along with her. They have turned out to be an enormous dissapointment, to say the least.
mailto:elections-info@ncsl.org?subject=[I and R].
August 3, 2007 8:38 PM | Reply | Permalink