Cheney will singlehandedly bring about a new definition of madness.

At this point, the Democrats need to move this ball down the court. They should produce ads with themes "War without end, the Republican plan" and "The road to Tehran runs through the voting booth in your precinct"

Well, it won't take long now to find some "good hard" evidence... which will be found to be flawed later on.

Scenario 1: Numerous IEDs, weapons used by the Quds force, a branch of the Iranian government, get into the hands of terrorists.
Conclusion: Iran is arming terrorists... they are part of the axis of evil!

Scenario 2: 190,000 weapons used by the Department of Defense, an arm of the United States government, get into the hands of terrorists.
Conclusion: United States is arming terrorists... they are part of the axis of evil!

Too bad Congress hasn't stopped the flow of funds... We may just have to attack Iran as part of the Iraq War... It would be perfectly Constitutional... IMHO

You have to figure that Cheney and his staff and the DOD and CIA are working 24/7 to develop a workable scenario that will justify a war with Iran and will be a 'sell' to the American public.

As in the past Bush/Cheney will totally own the narrative, with Democrats sitting agog, mouths open, watching it all play out on Fox News and CNN.

You can bet on going to war with Iran. Many in Glenn Greenwald's Foreign Policy Community will be attending a "Transpartisan Dialogue on Iran" on 9/06-9/08, sponosored by Reuniting America(link below).

Partial list of attendees:

John Batiste, Former Commander in Iraq, 1st Infantry Division
Phil Geraldi, Intelligence Analyst, American Conservative Defense Alliance
John Bolton, Senior Fellow, American Enterprise Institute
Michael Ledeen, Freedom Scholar, American Enterprise Institute
Newt Gingrich, Senior Fellow, American Enterprise Institute
Michael Rubin, Resident Scholar, American Enterprise Institute
Frank Wisner, Ambassador, Vice Chairman, American International Group
Howard Kohr, Executive Director, American Israel Public Affairs
Dov Zakheim, Vice President, Booz Allen Hamilton
Kenneth Pollack, Senior Fellow, Brookings Institution
Mattie Fein, President, Institute for Persian Studies

Watch out. This is what Cheney does. He sets up the scenario, and then fulfills it.

If he's hinging this unhinged policy on "hard evidence" you can be sure he's already manufactured it.

HA.. We read the news on Friday, the war starts Saturday, on Sunday we pray, we get drafted on Monday, and get killed on Tuesday.

I do not in any way support a war against Iran, but if they really are causing deaths of US soldiers, what is our military supposed to do? You can't just wait around and hope they stop while people die. I know the default answer is to just get out of Iraq, but imho a dramatic fast paced withdrawal will further destabilize the region.

I also realize that part of the issue here is mistrust in the current administration to determine what justifies retaliation, and I don't know how to answer that, just to say just because it has a history of bad decisions, every decision doesn't have be a bad one.

Copper was first smelted in northern Mesopotamia (now Iraq) circa 8700 B.C.

An EFP is simply a copper bowl (liner) attached to a PVC tube loaded with HE. Iraqis and their ancestors have been making copper bowls for thousands of years. They can probably manage a copper bowl made to the specifications required for "liner." Add a detonator, such as a passive infrared device, and for between $30 and $50 an insurgent can deploy a weapon that is lethal against a tank, an APC, or an armored Humvee. Molten copper moving at high velocity does physically surprising things at impact and can bore/melt/burn through extremely thick armor. An EFP offers an excellent cost/lethality ratio for an inurgency, but for an occupying power--not so good.

(By the way, the same technology is used in the oil industry. Shaped charges and warheads were used in Russian anti-tank weapons in WWII, and the physical effects of shaped charges have been understood in the mining industry for a century and a half.)

Any competent machinist in any machine shop in the Third World can assemble such an EFP device from materials at hand. There is surely no shortage of facilities or talent for fabricating EFPs in Iraq.

Cheney's and the neocons' propaganda drumbeat for war with Iran has begun. It is obediently repeated and amplified in Baghdad by Lt. Gen. Raymond Odierno (whose solution to quelling insurgencies is primarily to kill more insurgents) and press briefer Brig. Gen. Kevin Bergner (previously an undistinguished apparatchik in the Bush/Cheney NSC at the White House).

Secretary Gates and Secretary Rice are trying to maintain a sense of reality in this debate, but in the past Cheney has almost always gotten his way in the end, for Bush and his own key aides lack the judgment or strength of conviction to challenge Cheney or Cheney's chief operative, David Addington.

Michael Gordon of the NYT has been credulously relaying the speculation and fantasies of Odierno and Bergner. The paper seems not to have learned its lesson from allowing Judith Miller to serve as the Bush/Cheney official stenographer in building the case for the invasion of Iraq. We must therefore discount much of what Gordon writes: he is a neocon cheerleader, not a serious journalist.

Kudos to Paul Kiel and to Juan Cole at www.juancole.com for asking serious questions and for exposing the flimsy quality of Cheney's escalating propaganda. No one doubts that the Iranians provide support to Shia allies in Iraq. But after all, is it not the U.S. which installed the Shia-dominated government? Is it not the U.S. which currently props up Shia PM Maliki's government? News flash to Cheney: Iran supports Maliki as well, as was clear from this week's visit by Maliki to Tehran.

I take great satisfaction in knowing that the scumbags in this administration and everybody else that is working to dismantle our democracy will forever have to look over their shoulders for the rest of their natural lives. I just wonder how many "lone wolves" are out there just waiting for these criminals to get out of office before they pounce on them.

DE-FUND NOW!

"the scumbags in this administration and everybody else that is working to dismantle our democracy will forever have to look over their shoulders for the rest of their natural lives."

Unfortunately,WE too will have to spend the rest of our lives looking over OUR shoulders. This will be their legacy.

Folks, what the military calls an EFP is what oil drillers call a "perforating gun" for completing producing oil wells with steel casing set in concrete.

EFP's are just one of many types of IED. They may be smuggled in from any neighboring state for any sort of militia to supplement regular arms drawn from old ex-Soviet, newer ex-US, or the ME arms bazaar generally. But, they may well be locally made. Iraq has light industrial plant that used to support its domestic oil and arms industry.

Oh dear. Can TPM start up something like the "Security Level" colors, with Green meaning that Cheney is under heavy sedation and safely away from any levers of power, and Red meaning that Cheney has finally decided that Iran is responsible for his "loss of essence" and needs to be nuked?

Dick Cheney pondering: "How best to make the point, how best to make the point...how best to make the point to those hand holding little SOB's?". "I know, we'll drop a bomb on Maliki. We'll do an investigation and find out it was an Iranian bomb. That ought to keep the message out there for a good while".

Code word: Summer. "Summertime, when the livin' is easy. Democrats are playin' dead and the threat level is high...."

...

I almost hate to bring this up, but it's been bothering me for a while.

I've read speculation that BushCo will manufacture yet another emergency/disaster, and try to suspend the elections in 2008. While you could argue that a war with Iran might play into that strategy, I do not beleive that's the plan. I think that would be over-reaching, even for this mal-administration.

Consider this: they don't have to suspend the next election to stay in power. Dick Cheney could be elected president.

Now, stay with me here. This is still a tin-foil hat conspiracy theory, I realize. But they wouldn't have to declare martial law or suspend the elections. All they'd have to do is (still) manufacture an emergency or two, rig the republican convention so that none of the (lackluster) candidates can win on the first ballot, mount a "draft Cheney" campaign, because "we're in a crisis", then pull all their dirty tricks to steal the election in November.

It would be a grander, bolder version of the same game they've played for the last three elections. ("Dems are weak on terror; in these bad times, you need us Rethugs in power.")

Sure, it's far-fetched. But it's pretty scary, too! I mean, at that point, it would be game over, permanently.

I certainly hope I'm wrong. But I don't think we can count on the next election being our salvation.

That's why I strongly support impeachment now. Let's try to nip this thing in the bud, while we still can.

-- ARG

isn't a national strike on 9/15/07 a great idea ?
we can't all make it to D.C.
shut them down 9/15

isn't a national strike on 9/15/07 a great idea ?
we can't all make it to D.C.
shut them down 9/15

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0810/p99s01-duts.html

Libyan leader's son admits medics' torture

Saif al-Islam Qaddafi also acknowledged the innocence of former imprisoned Bulgarian nurses and Palestinian doctor.

I do not in any way condone what Cheney is attempting to pursue in Iran, nor did I support the original decision to invade Iraq. However, after reading today's postings how many folks are willing to acknowledge the real underlying rationale for continuing our presence in the middle east?
Aren't our "security interests" plainly retaining access to oil supplies?
The irony is that for all the anger expressed over the Iraq calamity, justifiable so, Americans would quickly change their tune over Iraq, Iran and the middle east when they realize that our losing access to oil would severely effect our "quality of life". This is the sad irony not evident on this comment board.

Paul, your headline over at TPM was a bit misleading. Attacking Iranian forces in Iraq, if any, isn't the same as attacking Iran. Within the context of the fact that we're still fighting a war over there, it's perfectly reasonable in fact. Or at least, no more unreasonable than anything else we're doing.

"We must deal with Polands' constant threat to our citizenry, we have reasoned to no avail. As for the Sudetenland.."

Oops, sorry quoting wrong fascist liar.

Homeless said:

"The irony is that for all the anger expressed over the Iraq calamity, justifiable so, Americans would quickly change their tune over Iraq, Iran and the middle east when they realize that our losing access to oil would severely effect our "quality of life". This is the sad irony not evident on this comment board."

The percentage of US oil supplies that come from the Middle East is not a big as you are thinking. In allocating resources, the amount of money the country has dumped into the Iraq invasion and maintaining forces there for six years could have been better spent developing alternative sources for energy. I have read that only about 4% of our total oil comes from Iraq, 8% from Saudi Arabia, and 1.3% from Kuwait.

It's a matter of degree, whether we can replace that amount from another source.

anon , too said:
"I have read that only about 4% of our total oil comes from Iraq, 8% from Saudi Arabia, and 1.3% from Kuwait.

It's a matter of degree, whether we can replace that amount from another source."

Are you considering the growing demand on the known world oil production capacity by China and India's tremendous industrial and automotive growth? These seemingly small sources you cite for US import will become even more important to control because of the instability in other oil producing countries and depleting worldwide oil supplies.
If the middle east sources of oil supply is so minimal why do so many characterize our continued presence in that region as a strategic imperative to maintain access to energy?

Dear Paul,

Please study the difference between it's and its.

Love,

Your 3rd grade teacher.

Where was the outcry when the Post report illustrated that Cheney runs the country and Bush implements his commands? Bush hasn't the capacity to helm a baseball team, let alone a country. There is more than ample evidence that Cheney has an agenda to fill and it has nothing to do with the will of the people.
This is beyond insane. We appear to have no recourse. Our congressional "leaders" don't seem to think this is an emergency.
Rome is burning and the legislators are joining Nero's orchestra.

Cheney may be "skeptical of diplomacy with Iran" now, but when he was CEO of Halliburton, he did business with Iran.

I agree with the post above by " A 57yo UPstate NY 'i'NDEPENDENT"

Speak up Colin Powell!!! This is your chance to redeem yourself with the nation and the world. You have the credentials, direct experienc and the values to expose this madness.

@
Tony P., that thought occured to me, too. None of the current crop of candidates appears to me quite as transparently malleable as Bush, however. (Though the Mitt-ster has some kind of a Manchurian thing going on...)

-- ARG

Iran has seen a country from halfway around the world commit a vast armed aggression against their neighbor. As a result, Iran lives with violence, chaos and war on their border.

I have no illusions about Iran's intents, but under the circumstances, I believe that they have a perfect right to do whatever they think necessary to protect themselves, and that we, as the cause of this situation have absolutely no right to complain.

Hey-- on the plus side, if the US does go to war with Iran, it will completely tarnish the image of the GOP with any moderates still left undecided (uuhhh. . . are there any?). All the GOP will have left are the most hard line right-wingers and neo-cons (who will go to their grave convinced they are right, despite all empirical evidence).

Well, just like al Qaida, Iran had no "training camps" in Iraq before we arrived. Just sayin'...

Doesn't make any difference, Kathleen, all the Democrats will do is whine ahyway . . .

Sheehan for Congress in '08!!

After the bombs start reigning down on Iran, congress will pass a resolution applauding it.

It will speak in shrill terms about how we've been attacked and how this is a matter of defending ourselves.

We could "win" in Iraq. Occupy the country with enough troops. How many? I don't know. At least a million. Maybe five.

Charlie

It has been Saudi Arabia that has been supplying the Insurgents and al-Qeda in Iraq with bombs, bomb makers, and suicide bombers. This was noted by the US ambassador to Iraq a couple of weeks ago, before he was muzzled. Saudi Arabia has also been known to have forged documents showing connections between Iran and Iraq.

The Russians and Chinese supplied N Vietnam w/arms, training, funds, advisors and some troops. ( The latter being China.)I don't recall us declaring war on China or Russia. Even in Korea when the Chinese provided massive amounts of troops to NK, we did not go into China.
We supplied Afghanistan with money, arms and advisors against the Russians. War by proxy is nothing new.
Did Russia declare war on us as a consequence? Somebody needs to put Deadeye Dick in some stress positions - after all Rusbo says they're just frat pranks.

As Conan OBrien would say "don't worry my babies" I say to you my fellow libs "don't worry my fellow libs" Dicky shit head and his Uber shit head Bushy ain't going to be able to do much. Why? Because just look at the condition we are financially. Add to all the mismanagement of our federal budget the whole sub-prime debacle and you have the answer. Also, I wish the democratic leadership would stop being such cowards and quickly pounce on this whole sub-prime debacle and tie it around Bushy's neck just like the repukes did with the whole tech melt around Clinton. This is a bigger problem than the whole tech mess but no one seems to have the balls to tie it around the nuts of Dicky shit head and Bushy fart head. Go figure!

Hello everyone, personally I think you guys are all forgetting that Cheney is the Vice President...I for one offer my salute to the man.
http://www.redcoat.net/pics/tubgirl.jpg

Andrew, r ur knees sore yet? Hows ur brown shirt fit? U may well worship your fuhrer, may have a burning desire to offer your _____ to the man, but House Res. 333 will show the world all the sordid details of his treason. Treason during wartime is a capital offense. Eager Andy, do u know what that means darling? When proven guilty Daddy will be put to death. Dems the rules sweetie, better get all u need from him quick.

"What proof does Cheney have that those so called Quds Training Camps are in fact Training Camps?"

It's telling that Cheney is advocating airstrikes rather then using ground forces to attack the camp. If these are isolated camps out in the desert it shouldn't be hard to cordon and attack. If the camps are not isolated, if they are mixed in with civilian settlements then bombing will produce a high number of civilian casualties.

So what is this about?

This arrogant ass named Bush and his sidekick, the sharpshooter, NEED TO BE gone, gone from the US, gone from the World. How about we encourage our troops to lay down their weapons, come home, protect the US and our european allies and tell those two goons to go to Iraq and DUKE IT OUT with whomever they wish. Sounds childish, I know, but so does the story, that 9/11 was caused by Saddam. Excuse me guys up on the hill, we are NOT stupid, just slow.

The P-Nut's brain is at it again. . . . and once again, bad news for America.

When P-nut announced that "America is safer. We were even able to hold elections while fighting a war" many Americans balked. Could he possibly mean that an America at war could not hold elections.

Well, hold on folks. Let's just wage another war of convienence on Iran and see how well our stalwart republic holds up. Spreading democracy while eviscerating the Constitution. Might the mighty just say . . . nooooo, we're at war so elections will just have to wait.

Somehow, we voted during WWs I & II, and the civil war . . . but the Peanut knows best.

>> The Russians and Chinese supplied N Vietnam w/arms, training, funds, advisors and some troops. . . . I don't recall us declaring war on China or Russia. <<

That's because China and the USSR had nukes. And the Soviets didn't attack us over our support of the Afghan "freedom fighters" because *we* had nukes. Small wonder Iran wants 'em too, huh?

ugh, can't this fool just die of a heart attack already? (I use to think that saying this was over the line, but god damn it not anymore)

Last time they knew right where the WMDs were located. Now, in spite of evidence of the majority of foreign fighters are coming from Saudi Arabia, weapons also, Cheney will find his hard evidence because he already wants to attack Iran. There is no objectivity here. He will find hard evidence even if he has to provide it himself.
Amazing that he thinks anyone would believe him no matter what he found. Has he given up looking for aluminum tubes and yellow cake etc.
I'm so sick of living in fear of my president...of what he might do next. A million Iraqis dead already, our soldiers in the middle of a civil war, and Cheney(who pretty much caused it all) is looking for reasons to attack Iran.
Step back for a moment and look at who is the real terrorist here. The Dems are walking around saying he can't attack Iran unless he gets approval from the Senate...The senate signed the Lieberman legislation condemning Iran's activities but are too naieve to see that it is the authorization to attack Iran(but you said you condemned their activities as an act of war). It's not if Bush as the authority to attack it's whether he has the power to attack. What can the Dems do after the fact? Say "you weren't supposed to do that" or "I didn't think he'd go that far but we're there now". Start impeaching Cheney and tie his hands. This will weaken Bush's plans and keep his finger off the Iran attack button. Bush bragged he'd make it impossible for the next president to withdraw from Iraq...why can't you see what is happening here?

He's going to attack Iran but can't do it without Cheney. Impeaching Cheney is our best hope of preventing an Iran attack. We have Cheney's crimes on video and with an investigation into his "hidden" activities, where people can't refuse subpoenas or hide behind executive privilege, it wouldn't take long to get him out of office.

The attack Iran door is wide open and this would be enough to shut it. Why can't congress see this? They are going to attack Iran...everything is ready set and almost go. Stop them now. You can't undo this later. The blood of over a million Iraqis beg you not to let it happen to the Iranians also. Stand up against Bush and Cheney, blue dog dems and anyone else supporting Cheney's vision.

bjbotts, point well taken, well spoken.

Problem is, many of us have e-mailed our congress people and received the standard response, "Thank you so much for contacting us . . . important issue, we're giving it considered thought . . . and so on. . . "

How can we STOP this nonsense? It appears that the admin is prepared to take unilateral action (probably at a strategic time . . . say 9-11) to flex a little muscle and show that the "Decider" is in charge. Ugh.

What to do. Congress, Dems in majority, just flaked on FISA, Fourth Amendment be damned, we have no spine. We're tough on crime, terrorism, etc. Ick. The worst terrorism against Americans is an inside job. Thank you Peanut and thank you Congress.

For those of you who may have seen "Sicko" in the movie an American living in France is asked why is the French government is responsive to its people: "in France the government is scared of its people; in the US, the people are afraid of their government."

Some frustrated posters have said: "The time has come for the Generals to speak up to this Administration" and asked, "How can we STOP this nonsense?"

If you're angry with this administration then show up September 15 in Washington DC. Only when Bush, Cheney and Congress can see 100 thousands of Americans protesting against its policies will change begin. It's time to put up or shut up. Talk (posting) is cheap!