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Ex-Justice Department Official Contradicts Intel Chief

He didn't get anywhere near the media attention yesterday that Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell did. (Including from me.) But James Baker (not that James Baker), who until earlier this year helmed the Justice Department office in charge of preparing FISA warrants, testified to the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence that the process in place for obtaining FISA warrants "worked during wartime."

Indeed, the portrait Baker painted of the FISA process doesn't bear much resemblance to the one on display from McConnell, who's been aggressively pushing to keep FISA's oversight role diminished.

Baker described FISA as an intelligence tool rather than a hindrance. The process yielded "information that the intelligence community could use to take action to thwart the activities of our adversaries, including terrorist groups." It was never the case that foreign-to-foreign communications, even those that passed through the U.S., were considered under the auspices of the act.

Supposedly, earlier this year the FISA Court abruptly ruled that such communications do indeed fall under FISA, prompting the issuance of warrants for foreign-foreign surveillance. (The ACLU has filed a motion with the court to declassify the ruling.) Baker's description raises questions about why the court would have committed such a stunning legal about-face.

McConnell, in an interview with the El Paso Times, claimed that FISA was a cumbersome process, requiring 200 man-hours for the production of a warrant for a single phone number, a statistic he stood by yesterday. Baker contradicted McConnell there as well.

Here's an exchange between Baker and Rep. Heather Wilson (R-NM) about how long it takes to produce a FISA warrant.

WILSON: In some of your answers to previous questions, you talked about the timeliness in terms of emergency warrants and the reputation of your office as being the rusty gate and so forth.

You responded that you do those as quick as you possibly can. And it can happen extremely quickly to get an emergency warrant. Have you ever been involved in an emergency warrant or emergency application for a warrant that's taken more than an hour?

BAKER: Yes.

WILSON: Have you been involved in one that's taken more than six hours?

BAKER: Well, I guess the question is -- let me back up -- what do you mean by it has taken more six hours? From the time that the -- what I assess that means is from the time that the intelligence agency...

WILSON: Let me clarify that for you. From the time that the intelligence agency says we've got a number we need to get up on it, to the time they can turn on the switch, does it take more than an hour.

BAKER: See, I can't answer that, because all I can control is the time that...

WILSON: Let's put it this way: From the time you were first informed that one would be required to when they were able to turn on the switch, were there any that took longer than six hours?

BAKER: Well, I'm not trying to be cagey, Ms. Wilson. I just simply -- I don't -- we did lots of these things. We did them all the time. We tried not to over-lawyer the situation, so we delegated authority to folks within our organization to take prompt action on these things.

Did some take more than six hours? Certainly possible. I don't know. I didn't -- we didn't keep track in terms of -- you know, we didn't keep statistics on that.

What I'm reporting to you, I believe, is that overall, my assessment is that the system was successful. Could the system have done more with more resources? Of course.

Baker conceded that the intelligence community may have been frustrated with the pace of acquiring a warrant. But here he suggested that McConnell is misdiagnosing the problem: it's not FISA that takes so many hard hours, but the actual intelligence work itself that allows an agent to determine where surveillance should be directed.

Tomorrow McConnell goes before the House intelligence committee. Maybe he'll be asked to explain the discrepancy between his understanding of FISA and Baker's.


10 Comments

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user-pic

James Baker was one of the DOJ group that was prepared to resign on March 11, 2004- per Comey written testimony.

He probably understands the nature of the arguments in great detail.

user-pic

the 200 hours is probably the amount of time it takes from a datamining acquisition hit to figure out the location of the communicators. Then when they finally figure out the hit occurred between 2 domestics, then they are forced by FISA to get a warrant. they may also have to ensure that it is not 2 us citizens talking regardless where they are physically located.

I am guessing the problem is cell communications, which may be coming from anywhere so require more digging.

So this figuring takes 200 hours, but once they figure out the who part, getting a warrant is fast, as baker indicates.

user-pic

If my recollection is correct, FISA warrants were NEVER required before the fact, they could be requested after the fact, so what's the big deal with how long it may take them to fill out.

And I have a *very* hard time believing it would take 200 hours to fill out a request. Doesn't really pass the sniff test, does it?

user-pic

If my recollection is correct, FISA warrants were NEVER required before the fact, they could be requested after the fact, so what's the big deal with how long it may take them to fill out.

That is correct!

72 hours a warrant must be produced to Fisa, and McConnoly states that it takes 200 hours to fill one out.

I guess word processors and merging data does not exist? If I'm correct the data preceeded the request for a warrant?

Seems to me a back-fill and rear guard action to justify already preformed illegal acts.

user-pic

who until earlier this year helmed the Justice Department office in charge of preparing FISA warrants

??????
He's gone? Who heads it now and is he still with gov?

Anyway - James Baker seemed to head the list of the people that the OPR office wanted to speak to about Gonzales and the FISA program. From a Murray Waas article:

The memo also said that the office had asked Baker to "submit to an interview concerning the NSA program and its relationship to the department's dealings with the [Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act] court."

http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/0315nj1.htm

He was also in the mix about reported breaches of the FISA court firewalls that the court supposedly set up to keep the illegal program out of that court - he had to go tell the court about the breach(es).

Here's a Frontline interview with Baker about the court and FISA process:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/homefront/interviews/baker.html

I don't know if it is 100% correct to say that foreign to foreign spoke transmissions are never, "were considered under the auspices of the act"

It doesn't require a warrant for them but does require that the AG make some certifications and reports and sets up limitations (requires minimizations) so that US info isn't swept up in the net - plus I think annual reports to Congress by the AG about these no-warrant interecepts are supposed to be provided. So auspices - yes, warrants- no.

I still think their FISA court ruling dealt with unspoken communications, like emails, text messaging etc. bc there seems a pretty clear reference to the warrant requirement if US facilities are involved in the intercepts applying to things other than spoken communications. Fwiw.

user-pic

From the Baker-Wilson exchange given, I can't see that Baker contradicted anyone. What in Hell?...it seems to me he dodged a straightforward, simple question to which he should have known the answer. If this evasion is typical, he ranks with the rest of the DoJ Republican dissemblers.

user-pic

There is not one honorable republican!

I was never political before our little woodenhead president Bush but I am now. Along the way I have learned that Democrats/liberals are just plain better people than republicans/conservatives.

Dems are morally, ethically and intellectually superior to Repugs.

user-pic

Perhaps part of this supposed "frustration" at the time it takes to get a warrant is analogous to that of a petulant child being told that they must wait a few more days until Christmas to open their presents. Some of this angst could arise from the universal distaste for paper work. However, the most plausible explanation is that our President, Vice-President, DNI and their political appointees involved in the intelligence gathering process are aware that how they are do it (and the extent to which they are doing it) is unconstitutional. Therefore they seek to avoid any oversight or paper trail.

AF

user-pic

Perhaps part of this supposed "frustration" at the time it takes to get a warrant is analogous to that of a petulant child being told that they must wait a few more days until Christmas to open their presents. Some of this angst could arise from the universal distaste for paper work. However, the most plausible explanation is that our President, Vice-President, DNI and their political appointees involved in the intelligence gathering process are aware that how they are do it (and the extent to which they are doing it) is unconstitutional. Therefore they seek to avoid any oversight or paper trail.

AF

user-pic

This is an example of how Bush & company wanted a one party government to control our nation, they are and were doing everything to make this a reality. It is frustrating to see the opposition time after time not recognize this. I believe the people of this nation still cannot get their minds wrapped around the idea. The republicans may still get their wish. If the opposition does not take this attempted take over seriously and reverse the changes to procedure established by the republicans we can kiss a representative republic good bye.

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