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Schumer, Feinstein to Support Mukasey

The key swing votes have swung. Sens. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) and Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) say they're voting for, meaning that Michael Mukasey will make it through the Senate Judiciary Committee and almost certainly be confirmed as the next attorney general.

Here's Schumer's explanation, via Roll Call (sub. req.):

“I deeply esteem those who believe the issue of torture is so paramount that Judge Mukasey’s views on it should be the sole determinant of our vote,” Schumer said in a statement. “But I must respectfully disagree.

“The Justice Department is a shambles: politicized and demoralized. The belief and hope [is] that Justice Mukasey, with his experience, independence and integrity, can restore the department motivates my vote.”

And here's Feinstein, in a release just out:

"I believe that Judge Mukasey is the best we will get and voting him down would only perpetuate acting and recess appointments, allowing the Administration to avoid the transparency that confirmation hearings provide and diminish effective oversight by Congress."

280 Comments

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Chuck:
YOU SOLD OUT!
No more contributions for YOU!
Tell AIPAC to write you a nice fat check in exchange for betraying your country!
YOU HAVE BLOOD IN YOUR HANDS!
(And I truly hope some day you have water in your lungs, so you can experience the pleasure of waterboarding!]

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Never a single cent to Dems again.

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so that whole, "Simon says 'waterboarding is torture'" nonsense was just more kabuki theater from the Defeatocrats?

seriously, what was the point of all that?

Waterboarding IS torture.

Those who authorized it ARE war criminals.

I guess they just didn't have the guts to take it that far, after all... so why bother?

Jesus. I'd give my left nut for a REAL opposition party.

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Damn Schumer.

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What the fuck, Chuck?

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We can't expect more from either of these two senators. They are probably the victims of the wiretapping and their illegal campaign dollars are known to cheney.
they are repulsive, and I am thankful that I don't live in a state that would elect such human garbage. Imagine voting to confirm someone you know to be working against the law you swore to uphold?

Makes them traitors according to the rule of law, doesn't it?

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Here is a perfect example of TWO Democratic Senators that are an absolute disgrace!! "Grassroot Dems" should do everything possible to unseat Democrats such as these in the next election. Schumer is an absolute disgrace, and Feinstein has been a "turncoat" for years!! What a sad day indeed for the Democratic Party indeed.

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Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me, what, is this 4999 times?, shame on me.

No more shame on me, Democrats. If this is the best you can do then we might as well elect Republicans. At least we won't hope they might do the right thing.

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...“I deeply esteem those who believe the issue of torture is so paramount that Judge Mukasey’s views on it should be the sole determinant of our vote,” Schumer said in a statement. “But I must respectfully disagree....

I wish Schumer's seat wasn't so secure. I am humiliated and embarrassed to be represented by a pro-torture Senator. Yup, no more money to Schumer. Period. I do not support torture. Yes, it is "so paramount."

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It's hard to argue with Feinstein's logic. The problem is not with how these two (stooges) vote, it is that the Democrats allowed themselves to be played. Feinstein is correct: The acting AG is arguably worse than Mukasey and you know Bush will pull any dirty trick he can to keep his folks in office as long as he can. If the Dems want to make Gonzales and Bush pay for breaking the law, they're just going to have to pony up and do it themselves.

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If the bar were any lower, we'd all be drunk.

Frankly, it is time for a third party. I'd rather lose with honor than honor these bozos with my vote.

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I have dutifully voted for the straight Democratic ticket ever since I was naturalized in 1985 even though I am a registered independent.

Dianne Feinstein will never get my vote again.

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AIPAC wins.

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Why does Schumer feel the need to take responsibility for a screwed up Justice Department? The reason it's screwed up is six+ years of a disastrous presidency with a no-morals legal apparatus. This will just prolong the shame and spread the blame for it to the Democrats.

Congratulations, Chuck. A great political mind at work.

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F'ing traitor. chuck schumer is a goddamn idiot and a traitor.

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If there's an upside to Schumer--compared to, say, Lieberman--I don't see it. He makes noises now and then but he's no better than the administration, perhaps worse, since he, like Lieberman, provides them with "bi-partisan" cover. And, unfortunately, like Lieberman, he's probably in office as long as he likes.

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Go ahead, Chuck. Try to kick the football again. I promise I won't pull it away this time.

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I long ago gave up on both Schumer and Feinstein. I live in California and I'll vote Republican to get her out. At least then, we'd have a real Republican instead the one masquarading as a Democrat now!

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I'm with Renato. If you're going to cave, why put up resistance? It just makes you look twice as feeble. Does anyone really wonder why Congress' approval rates are so low? Republicans tell you they will do bad things. Then they do them. Dems tell you they don't like bad things. Then they do them anyway. Which party would you trust?

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This isn't a question of which administration stooge is worse than the other administration stooge. This is a question of whether the Senate fucking Judiciary Committee (OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!) is a body that endorses torture.

Evidently it is such a body.

We must repudiate the craven, cowardly, scum that calls itself the Democratic Party, or this good cop-bad cop routine will ample on in perpetuity.

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Our "representative" system of government strikes again.

And good luck to all of us.

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"SENATE DEMS KNUCKLE UNDER AGAIN".

Now, THAT headline looks familiar.

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Unbelievably shameful. I HAD respect for both of them but not now.
TURNCOATS! If they think they are getting an "independent" in Mukasey they are dumber than I thought.

I will never vote for DiFi again and if I could vote for Schumer, I wouldn't.
I feel betrayed and dismayed. If the highest Attorney in our land can not take a STRONG position that torture in ANY FORM will not be tolerated because it is IMMORAL and DOESN'T WORK.
This just gets worse day by day.
I hope everyone writes to both of them and complains, I sure will.

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UP-chuck

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Feinstein has let her constituents down again. On issue after issue after issue, she ignores the people who elected her.

I'll vote for pretty much anyone who's willing to run against her, with the exception of right-wing religious fanatics.

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why doesn't dianne feinstein just quit her charade and change parties? she's fucking useless as a "democrat." she's on the wrong side of every single issue that requires a courageous moral stand.

as a san franciscan, i've never been more disgusted with and ashamed of a fellow city resident in my life.

looking back, the shooting of harvey milk is even more tragic, given the elevation of feinstein's profile that resulted from that event. years later, we're all paying for dan white's insanity in the form of a pathetic, gutless windbag of a senior senator.

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Oh for Pete's sake. All the fortitude of the Weimar Republic.

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Interesting. Let's see, what doe Feinstein, Schumer and Mukasey all have in common?

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What smug pieces of shit. When are they up for reelection? Can Leahy take retribution? Shouldn't they lose subcommittee chairmanships if they have any?

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what do Feinstein, Schumer and Mukasey all have in common?

They're all Bush's tools, apparently.

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If waterboarding is done continuously for five to ten minutes, it causes death. So, how is it not torture? The only thing that allows people to survive is if it is only done for a few minutes.

Yelling at people, putting them in stress positions or blaring music at them doesn't kill them, much less kill them in a matter of minutes. So, whether some of these things are torture could be debated. But waterboarding, if not stopped in a short period of time, always leads to death. That is by all definitions torture.

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And with this move, it again brings about the question - will there ever be a powerful third-party to enter the fray in the country? If ever there was a time we needed one, it's now. If ever there was a time to start one, at least from a grassroots level, it's now.

Unreal.

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and yet again israeli machinations trump american interests. and, like pelosi, shumer and feinstein choose 'gang loyalty' over accountability.

impeach!

peas!

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The Republicrats are one party. Long live the Empire.

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The Democrats aren't even trying to fight these sick bastards. Mukasey has clearly indicated he has neither independence nor integrity. He's just going to be another Bush whore at DOJ. And Schumer and the rest who support this appointment have shown their utter lack of courage and intelligence and just plain street smarts.

These people are pathetic sellouts. Feinstein's argument is crap. There's no transparency when Mukasey won't even answer the question about torture, and when he indicates he supports the chief psychopath's destruction of the Constitution. Settling for an obvious evil because you think you can't do better is simply giving in to evil and becoming part of it. And Schumer has got to either be on drugs or forgot to take the ones he needs.

I suppose it's just too much to look for intelligence and integrity when you haven't got any yourself.

The Democrats are about as useful to the people as a car alarm or an appendix.

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shame on you, mr. schumer. shame on you, too, dianne feinstein.

but the most shame of all can go to the republicans who are in lock-step with Bush on this trainwreck ride to destroy the constitution.

there's a metastasizing cancer in washington, d.c. we all know where it started. it's a sad day indeed when it has so clearly infected the democrats too.

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My note to Democrats.org:

"Feinstein and Schumer: you can't reject a person who won't say that waterboarding is torture? We're supposed to the good guys! I'm done with you. Not another dime from me. Not for Noriega here in TX, not for franken in MN, no, not another dime."

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I'm very sorry for Judge Mukasey, who seems to be in a difficult position, but this is a stain on Mukasey himself, and on Schumer; it will be stain on the Judiciary Committee if it recommends his confirmation, it will be a stain on the Senate if it confirms, and it will be a stain on the American people if he is sworn in. I never thought I would see this happen.

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"improper wrote on November 2, 2007 5:18 PM:
Interesting. Let's see, what doe Feinstein, Schumer and Mukasey all have in common?"

And, watch the votes of Specter, Feingold, Kohl, and Cardin.

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Would someone care to explain feinsteins logic again? how does keeping the acting AG in office make it harder to investigate anyone? how does voting no decrease transparency? this the key to her vote and I just don't get it.

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Why can't Leahy not bring the nomination up for a vote in the judiciary committee?

Why can't Reid not schedule a vote on the floor?

Seems like the above are both tactics that could be used...

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What I just e-mailed to DiFi:
"The Constitution is being shredded, with your willing assistance.
"The Geneva Conventions on the treatment of civilians and prisoners are being shredded, with your willing assistance.

"By voting for Mukasey, you will be voting for its overthrow and for the installation of a king in the White House.
"We will have no rights but what the President-for-Life is willing to allow - and so far, that ain't much.
"We will have no remedies but what the President-for-Life is willing to allow - and so far, that ain't much.
"We will have no say in government by what the President-for-Life is willing to allow - and so far, that ain't much.

"Reflect on this, as we all look forward to the dictatorship to come."

It won't do anything to change her vote. But it will let someone, somewhere, know that we noticed and are not happy.

I don't think she's planning to run in 2012; she's going to be close to 80 years old. We just have to elect better Democrats ... and if they won't vote like Democrats, kick them out of the party before they can run again.

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Dear Majority Leader Reid:

I am writing to tell you how appalled I am by Senator Dianne Feinstein's decision to support President Bush's nomination of Michael Mukasey to be the US attorney general.

This is just the latest in a series of Feinstein votes that go against the fundamental values of the Democratic party.

I have given up chiding Senator Feinstein each time she votes to beat up on the Bill of Rights. Instead, let me promise to you that this is one true California Democrat who supports stripping Senator Feinstein of her leadership positions in the next congress.

It is dreadful enough that California Democrats cannot turn Senator Feinstein out of office until 2012. Please help us mitigate the damage of her continuing presence in the Senate by relegating her to the Lieberman caucus for the remainder of her unfortunate term.

Sincerely,

PostHereSecondWriteCongressFirst

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I guess all of Chuck's "rule of law" b.s. boils down to, well, just b.s.

Both he and difi can go get cheney'd.

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the (democratic) party's over.....

No guts, no integrity

NO VOTES & NO MONEY

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I've given hundreds of dollars to the DSCC in the past. As long as Schumer is running the show, they can forget about any more from me. I'll pick specific candidates to support & fund them, thanks very much, rather than make the mistake of trusting Vichy Dems like Schumer.

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Just what "transparency" and "oversight" is Sen. Feinstein-Lieberman referring to? She gave up asking for that long ago.

DiFi may be insulated from the electorate for another five years, enjoying her $16.5 million cottage in San Francisco while hubby makes another hundred million or so selling goods and services to, uh, Mr. Bush's government. But those to whom she is patron undoubtedly will face the electorate sooner. They should do so alone and with little money. It's the best we can do, Diane.

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"The Justice Department is ... demoralized"

How would confirming Mukasey bring moral back up at the DoJ?


~ Jess

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What bothers me most is that Jake D. endede up being right....
Mukasey will get 63 votes on the floor and win the nomination!
Brought to you by the Senate AIPAC comittee...

P.S: Is Russ Feingold still thinking about it or is he ready to show where his TRUE loyalty lies?

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Gees Schumer and Feinstein.... we CAN do much better than Mukasey, now we get more torture? Which party is it that you are affiliated with again??? Demos acting like thugs again.

What's wrong with waiting for a candidate for AG that is more acceptable?!!?

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Torture santioned in the name of the American people, in my name. I'm heart sick.

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Ugh, so dumb. They could at least be truthful in these statements.

Mukasey did NOT show independence. He showed extreme deference to executive power.

If it doesn't matter what a nominee says at a confirmation hearing, just that we go through the motions, they are less than worthless kabuki theater.

Also, after 5 pm Friday press releases are a cheap Bush/Cheney Administration tactic. Classy.

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"The Justice Department is demoralized"?!? Hell the PUBLIC is demoralized. What crime won't our WORTHLESS representatives in Congress (on BOTH sides of the aisle) tolerate??? Oh, I know, NONE.

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Mukasey is just as much a Shumer crony as he is a for Bush and Rudy. Without any anti-semitic intentions by asking this, do you think that Leiberman's support and call for an up vote on Mukasey was mostly aimed at Shumer, Feinstein and Feingold? Well, Cheney has some Democrat friends to tell Sen. Leahey to 'go f#ck himself." And I'm sure President 28% will feel that he is still relevant enough to bully pushover Defeatocrats around. If Rudy gets a chance to beat Hillary, what are the chances that his buddy and backer AG Mukasey will stay on the job? Reid should throw sand in all of their faces and keep it from going to the floor.

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Too bad the wildfires in California have been contained...
It would have been so nice to see Diane's 16.5 million house burn to ashes...!
Can somebody from the San Fracisco area go play with matches near her house...?
She deserves it after today!

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Senator Feinstien doesn't get my vote either. She is directly acting against my civil rights and interest as an American.

Why is Feinstien enabling the fascist government of Bush?

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A few more moves like this and the dems will LOSE the 2008 election. Plenty of time to do so, plenty of bozos to do it. Dem party: I'm done with you all.

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Has Feinstein made public her plans for 2012 and beyond? I was under the impression that she was set to retire when her current term elapses. More's the pity if so; I'd hate to see her spared a humiliating defeat.

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It`s not much fun down here,down the river where I`ve been sold.At Least there are a lot of other folks like me who aren`t having that much fun either.I liked it up river,but now I`m down the river where I don`t like it as much.I sure wish we had better leaders who wouldn`t sell me down here.I don`t really like it as well as up there.Well at least I haven`t been sold down in New Orleans.Those people were double sold down the river.
Anybody have some gum?

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Are people here REALLY surpeised Mukasey is going to be confirmed?

All i can say is anybody who ever believed the Dems would block this are truly idiotic fucktards.

Here's a little heads up for you so you won't be so surprised/upset with the next sellout:

I hereby set the chances of the Dems NOT selling out on telecomm immunity at about 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000005 %

You have been warned.....

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I guess I shouldn't be either surprised or overly upset... we knew Feinstien would vote for him, and Schumer's coyness of late pointed in that direction as well.

Ironic - schumer decries the politicization of the DOJ, yet votes to confirm a man who willfully chose to place protecting the administration above the law... above his own (supposed) beliefs about morality and justice.

I'm sooooooooo freakin' disgusted it's not even funny.

Way to pretty much lower the democratic party (granted it didn't take much effort) to the same level integrity wise as the republicans Chuck

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It's NOT a vote for Mukasey.
It's a vote for Addington and Cheney.

ahh, so much for the Sunshine Patriot.

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"and voting him down would only perpetuate acting and recess appointments, allowing the Administration to avoid the transparency that confirmation hearings provide"

Dianne, please... don't take us for fools - what "Transparency"????

She's got to go... as a matter of fact, I'm ready for just about all of them to go. For years I've been saying that the Dems and Repubs are opposite sides of the same flawed coin. And folks have looked at me like I'm crazy. Until this year.

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Reminds me of the chorus from "Beltway Whores"...


"Roly, poly, tickle me hole-y,
Smell of me slimy slough.
Then drag your nuts across me guts,
I'm one of the whorey crew."


Thanks Demtards Schumer and Feinstein...knew you had it in you.

Fucking pathetic.

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Get these mo-fos a primary challenge, stat.

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I am as disgusted as anyone by this cave-in, but I think it's lame to suggest ethnic heritage has anything to do with it.

I do still think these two are arrogant shitheads, selling us fabricated pretexts for their vote.

But at least for Feinstein, I can see there is a back-room deal for her if she votes for Mukasey in committee and on the floor. She is probably desperate to override Shrub's veto of the water projects bill (click Fractal), and may have demanded promises from GOPers to support an override in exchange for her sell-out on Mukasey.

Schumer? Maybe the same, maybe he got a backroom deal, too. They are both from huge coastal states with huge navigable waterways that make a ton of money for their constituents and need a ton of infrastructure investment. And neither of them will face voters in a Presidential caucus or primary in two (2) months.

So, that's my pathetic insight: they sold out for pure pork, not because they believe in torture and are willing to cave in to every claim by DOJ that a wartime president is above the law. I hope I'm right.

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Feinstein and Schumer officially join Team Revulsion. Never ever to be believed again. They'll fit in nicely with current teammates Joe Lieberman, Lindsey Graham, John McCain, and Arlan Spector.

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Sorry 'bout that. I figured it would autowraparound. That's

0.000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000005% chance the Dems won't cave on telecomms immunity.

You have been warned.

Again......

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the justice department is in shambles, so of course, you want to appoint someone who will lie, dissemble, distort and twist himself into whatever configuration his overlords demand -- and with the utmost contempt for the american people.

i knew that son of a bitch would cave and vote for this most dishonorable man. i volunteered for that bastard's senate campaign. i will never vote for chuck schumer again.

chuck schumer endorses torture. i pray for a reckoning when all those in congress and this administration who are complicit in these grotesque and abominable acts will be held to account.

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Shumer does not want to admit that he's wrong, as to my cousin (2nd cousins once removed), this is no surprise, but it is a disappointment.

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Have the Republicans ever broken rank on such an important vote? Hell, McCain will not even vote against Mukasey.

Makes me wonder if Graham and Specter did suggest that the nomination was in trouble only to raise expectations and the demoralize Dems further when their own Senators inevitably caved. Probably not the case but it is clear that those two Republicans would never have crossed the aisle on this.

This is an all time low in my 22+ years as a Democrat. I will probably sit out the 2008 election and certainly will not give any money to any Dem in any race.

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ProDem wrote on November 2, 2007 5:02 PM:
Here is a perfect example of TWO Democratic Senators that are an absolute disgrace!! "Grassroot Dems" should do everything possible to unseat Democrats such as these in the next election. Schumer is an absolute disgrace, and Feinstein has been a "turncoat" for years!! What a sad day indeed for the Democratic Party indeed.


******These two having been doing this for years .Feinstein got re-elected last year & no one even the net roots kos,firedoglake & rest of so called progressives did or say anything about challenging Feinstein.she won re-election without a challenge.let's see what they will do wen Schumer runs for re-elction in '08 ?

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“I deeply esteem those who believe the issue of torture is so paramount that Judge Mukasey’s views on it should be the sole determinant of our vote, but I must respectfully disagree (...) The belief and hope [is] that Justice Mukasey, with his experience, independence and integrity, can restore the department motivates my vote.”

You got that? He's counting on the integrity of a man who is unwilling to say that drowning someone in order to get information out of them is "torture".

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Ralph Nader is suing the Democratic Party for conspiring to keep him off the ballot in 2004. He appears to have a sound case, and has won many legal battles against the Democrats.

Whether he makes it onto the ballot or not in 2008, my vote goes for Ralph Nader. I will never give another cent to the Democrats. They do not represent me.

It would be nice to see the Evangelical Christians also form an independent party. I may not agree with them, but they are not alone in believing the two current parties do not represent the American people.

Down with the two party system!

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Okay. I get a vague sense that many of us are not pleased. Now, in the waning moments of our democracy, let's use this - uh - disappointment to RAISE FRIGGING HELL with these folks - before the vote and after, if they don't backpedal.

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What the hell has happened to my country?
What the hell has happened to my political party?
These days, "disgusted" and "outraged" doesn't even come close. Screw loyalty to the party. Clearly we need to vote out every single incumbent Democrat who votes in favor of torture.

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Boy, say what you will about Feinstein's vote, but the explanation for it is perhaps the most nonsensical thing I've read since, I dunno, Gravity's Rainbow, maybe.

I mean, not confirming Mukasey will prevent "the transparency that confirmation hearings provide"?

The mind boggles at the number of logical problems in that statement alone. For one, once Mukasey is confirmed, what confirmation hearings does she think will happen? Confirmation hearings will be in the past tense, at that point.

For another, what transparency came out of Mukasey's confirmation hearing? He refused to give a transparent answer to one of the most important legal questions facing the country today -- a question the Senate KNOWS he will confront as AG -- and he gets confirmed.

Where's the transparency, Senator? Have you been observing the same hearings the rest of us have?

As for Schumer, I get the sense that, for him, this is a case of all politics being local. There's some way Mukasey's personal fate is tied into the safety of Schumer's seat. I have no idea what it is, but my gut says there's a connection somewhere.

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Kevin wrote on November 2, 2007 6:00 PM:

"For years I've been saying that the Dems and Repubs are opposite sides of the same flawed coin. And folks have looked at me like I'm crazy. Until this year.
"

You hit it on the head. It doesn't make sense until you entertain the idea that they are intentionally destroying the country, from within.. Rebulicrats and Demopublicans, it's all the same. Two parties, one vote, no choice.

I fear that the event will happen soon, where bush will get to enact martial law, and this country will be well and truly dead.

This is a cold day in hell...

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I will vote for a Republican now instead of Feinstein. THis is twice now that she screwed up the Justice system What a sad sad day.

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Traitors.

I'm seriously considering dumping my Democratic registration.

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Mitch wrote "it is time for a third party. I'd rather lose with honor than honor these bozos with my vote."

I'm with you Mitch. This is nauseating.

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Elton John and Bernie Taupin had it right. Burn Down the Mission.

The problem here is no longer D vs. R. It's the quasi-institution of the Beltway itself, which collectively substitutes its own judgment and desires over the collective wisdom and needs of all those rubes in the hinterlands, i.e., everyone who resides outside the D.C. Beltway.

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I'm just checking, the Dems do know they're in the majority now, right? What the hell is the point of being able to shoot down administration proposals if you never actually do it? I'm beginning to wish I'd voted Republican; at least then I'd be getting what I voted for.

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Fuck you, Schumer, and the scumbags you consorted with before you got down on your knees and started performing.

We have tens of thousands of troops in the field defending ideals and values you just abandoned.

You are a traitor to our country.

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My 50 years of Democratic activism ends with this vote. I won't be fooled again.

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Dave wrote "I'm seriously considering dumping my Democratic registration."

I did it right after they caved on FISA. Felt good because at least it was some defiance, which is more than these lickspittles have shown. Mass defection from the party may be the only way these losers will ever get the message.

Former Democrats looking for a good home.

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Dave wrote, "My 50 years of Democratic activism ends with this vote. I won't be fooled again."

I wonder if they have a clue the damage they've done, not just to the country but to themselves and their party. They're running off the people who actually care, for Christ's sake.

Fuck 'em.

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Obviously neither New York with Schumer nor California with Feinstein have the best Senators they could get.

Bush and Cheney need someone to keep them out of prison. The law was the law before our government was broken apart by people like these. Disgraceful!

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This has been another profile in Democratic auto-emasculation.

It really is time for a third party.

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Livid. Just livid at DiFi.
... almost as shocked as how civil I was in the email I just sent to her office.
Just Fricking LIVID.

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God, boycotting the 2008 election is becoming all the more tempting.

I don't understand the AIPAC connection to this topic.

Not suprised by Feinstein as she's been a DINO for quite awhile. I expect Cardin to fall into line now.

However, haven't the Democrats been bamboozled enough by the confirmation testimonies of Roberts & Alito & Gonzales?

If Mukasey is as tight w Rudy G as is speculated, perhaps Chuck is triangulating & anticipating a President 2008 R.G.

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I'm a liberal when voting. But this latest bait and switch by the Senate majority party has got me serioulsly thinking about Ron Paul. At least he will uphold and defend the literal interpretation of the Constitution which is a vast improvement over the neo-cons and moderate Democrats.

And he has said many times, the day he is sworn in, the troops come home.

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Feinstein must be destroyed.

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Let it go. You may not agree with Senators Schumer and Feinstein but the ultimate goal is to get Democrats elected to office in 2008. That's going to be difficult to do if you pull your support. My suggestion, keep your eye on the ball.

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Dave, Official A, chisholm, et al,

Since our party is no longer willing to stand up for the Constitution, or Liberal values -- and now, not even even for basic human decency -- we obviously DO need a new one. A Liberal Party actually willing to function as an opposition to these bloody insane Republicans and "Democrats."
Unfortunately though, it seems that folks who feel like we do will need to start from scratch, because the Greens don't seem likely to ever make the grade as an alternative. They've proven themselves to be far too disorganized and ineffective at picking candidates, or getting anybody elected.

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Repeat after me. "The Republicans are far worse than any Democrat and they must be defeated in 2008 if we want to save the country"

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The long and the short of it is that in this particular instance Feinstein and Schumer represent the quintessential reason why people think the Democrats are nothing but a bunch of calculating whores and pussies who don't have any courage or convictions. People believe this because it is so obviously true.

I've long considered Feinstein a lost cauze, but Schumer's lack of balls is really eye-opening. What a schmuck! Would Mukasey himself have to have been guilty of waterboarding someone for Schumer to vote against him? What principles does Schumer have that he would be willing to stand up for as opposed to simply posture over and use as fundraising tools?

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Rebekah--I have a hard time supporting people I have no respect for. I loathe every single thing about the Republican Party, but I respect them. They fight like hell, and they are indeed defining our reality. The Democrats offer me nothing but acquiescence and timid, spineless hand-wringing. They are truly the eunuchs of the royal court.

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Rebekah--I have a hard time supporting people I have no respect for. I loathe every single thing about the Republican Party, but I respect them. They fight like hell, and they are indeed defining our reality. The Democrats offer me nothing but acquiescence and timid, spineless hand-wringing. They are truly the eunuchs of the royal court.

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Rebekah Jensen, there comes a time when it's wisest for people not to act like mindless cheerleaders for their party. This is one such time. We are talking about the acceptance of torture here. Of "Democrats" voting in favor of someone who refuses to admit that waterboarding is torture.
If this is what passes now as "saving the country" then I honestly don't know what to say...

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As a Northern Californian Democrat who has supported (through votes and money) Feinstein in the past,I stop here. She has been gotten to by the Bush wiretap machine. We recalled a governor, is there a way to re-call a sitting Senator? I bet the (at least Northern Californians - where most of the Democrats are) would sign petitions for a recall! I refuse to change parties before attempting to clean it up from the inside!

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Its come to the point now where I get physically ill when reading about the
democrats caving in, they do it so often.

Wish I could afford to move to another country ,this one is circling the drain unfortunately.

After the neocons bomb Iran leaving wont be an issue because Americans wont be welcome anywhere.

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Rebekah, what makes you think that putting Democrats in power will save the country? It hasn't worked so far, certainly not with this current crew.

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What worthless, craven toads.

DiFi should go ahead and drop her Dem label and start humping her soulmate, Jumpin Joe Lieberman, I-CONN.

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HAHAHAHA Why should anyone be surprised?
This isn't your Father's Democratic Party.
They only need your vote and after that-well see you next election.

And please don't spin me a river.

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The Democrats are truly doing all they can to sabotage themselves in 2008. It's difficult to see how they could perform worse then they have this past year. If it wasn't so damned important it would merely be sad, but considering the circumstances it is beyond tragic.

Is this what a great nation in its death throws looks like?

How did we end up with such incredibly weak minded, spineless, moral degenerates representing us?

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Rebekah -

I cannot in good conscience vote for a party whose leadership lacks the balls to vote against a nominee for Attorney General who will not say on the record that he opposes a method of torture.

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Lieberstein!

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I just can't believe this.

Schumer: "The Justice Department has been so demoralized under someone who wouldn't condemn torture, so here's another one."

Feinstein: "We need to give Bush what he wants because otherwise he'll just take it anyway."

Senators, GO HOME!

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Schumer says Mukasey, who wont call waterboarding torture, has the "integrity and independence" to clean up the Justice Department. On that rationale Chuck throws away a rare opportunity for the Democrats to stand for something everyone can understand.

We need to stop pulling our hair out and start talking about getting Gore or Dean to run for President. Screw the mainstream centrist Democrats who think they are going to sneak into the White House without having to stand for anything or without having to explain themselves to the American people. These worms are fooling themselves if they believe the Right Wing will let poor standing in the polls and one horrendous Katrina-like failure after another keep them from stealing the White House again.

It is becoming clearer every day that many of the so-called Democrats are dancing hand in hand with the MSM Russerts to the music Karl has written for them (you just dont see him but he hasn't left the planet)

On the positive side this vicious knife in the back by Schumer and Feinstein cant be covered up or ignored. It is just a preview of what they and their ilk will do to our hopes for 2008 in the coming months. Progressives who want change need to get on the phone and beg Gore and Dean to run. Hillary, Barack et al do not have the courage or wisdom to stand up and conduct the national teach-in American is dying for. Gore and Dean do.

It is now or never. Pretty soon the MSM will have brainwashed us into a herd of rhinos as Ionesco predicted so forcefully. And the Schumers and Feinsteins of this world will seal the deal for the Right Wing fascist take-over of America. Sound too extreme, fanciful or hysterical-stayed tuned and see for yourselves.

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Their allegiance does not belong to our Country or its Constitution, it belongs to AIPAC.

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"Matthew wrote on November 2, 2007 8:37 PM:

Their allegiance does not belong to our Country or its Constitution, it belongs to AIPAC."

It is sad to see it come to this, but there isn't a better explanation. BTW, it also helps explain why Lieberman, who used to be reasonably liberal, has become so insane with this war on terra stuff. It isn't about being a democrat, and it isn't about doing the right thing....its about Israel.

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I agree with the accountability sentiment, really I do, but there is something to be said for a filibuster-proof majority teamed with a blue White House. If Democrats start splintering now, the people can say good-bye to any chance at election finance reform and eliminating the biggest obstacle to a viable third party. Giving up on Democrats now means giving up on true representation for a long time.

This won't sway those who subscribe to the "more power, less representation" view of the two party system but can we afford to give up now? We've armed the Democrats with one more bullet than the Republicans in the Senate and expect them to make things right again?

If you are unhappy with the Democrats ability to turn this country around, thank our system of checks and balances and ease up with the Emanuel/Pelosi/Reid/Schumer death threats.

My bottom line is that when I vote Democrat next year it will still be because I want a "new direction for America."

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Chuck finally succombs to Beltway CW Brain Rot. I expected nothing better of Stepford Democrat Feinstein.

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"...and justice for all."

We can kiss our legal system goodbye.

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Righteous and deserved anger here. Good. You want to change the course? You actually think the Democratic party can do that? Based on what exactly? You can criticize the Dems for caving all you want, you're gonna cave in too...aren't you. You'll be all angry for the weekend, you'll shake your fist at the teevee, swear to never give the Democrats your money or you're vote, but in the end you will. You'll get on your knees in the voting booth and vote Democrat and slink away and wait for the day when it becomes obvious what you feel deep down inside...you've been cheated once again. There's really only one answer. Ron Paul. Yup. Ron Paul. You may disagree on about 20-30% of what he says, but he says it right out in the open doesn't he. Ron Paul is THE ONLY CHANGE CANDIDATE RUNNING...and you know it.

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I am truly ashamed of the Democratic party at this moment for not standing up for what's right against the machinations of the Bush administration. How could Schumer and Feinstein even consider voting for someone who is unable to support U.S. laws and clearly say that waterboarding is illegal?

At least we know they're ashamed of this, because they waited until late Friday afternoon to announce it. And no wonder, given how insipid and nonsensical their reasoning was. Transparency? Integrity? (Ric, lucky, Kevin, Integrity, urbino, 60man have already well outlined how illogical these reasons are). Did they think we wouldn't notice?

This leaves me asking: what has the country (and Democratic party) become?

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I'm traitor to the eighth I am,
Traitor to the eighth I am, I am.
I'll let Bush waterboard some more.
He's been doing it seven years before.

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Matt says:

"I agree with the accountability sentiment, really I do, but there is something to be said for a filibuster-proof majority teamed with a blue White House."

Not much, when there's no principle the boys and girls in blue are willing to exercise that power for. They'd still all be terrified of getting called "soft on terror" in the next election, or getting labeled "partisan," or having something mean said about them in the next 5 minutes on network news.

In short, the Dems are afraid. They're too afraid to stand up for anything. Anything.

Having the WH and 61 seats in the Senate isn't going to change that. There will always be something else to be afraid of.

If the Dems were fighting for some principle -- any principle -- right now, and losing because of the WH and the closely divided Senate, you'd have a point. That's not the case. They simply are too afraid to fight.

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These democrats are truly pathetic. Let's start recruiting some real progressive democrats to challenge them in their primaries next time around. I'm so disillusioned with the great majority of congressional democrats. They do not seem to have any values that are not flexible when political expediency comes a-knockin'.

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Matthew wrote on November 2, 2007 8:37 PM:

The struggle over oppressive government unconstitutional overreaching was not decided by political jujitsu, as much as JewJewJew.

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Don't give up on the Dems. Replace the BushDogs with Blue Dogs. DiFi may retire, sadly, not for five years, but let's not re-elect those for whom she acts as patron. No patrongage network, no patron, as Cheney understands too well.

Get a solid senate majority of Blue Dogs, throw Lieberman off his committees, and investigate the hell out of Bush and Cheney. Once they're out of power, those they've abused and even their co-conspirators will talk and talk and talk.

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...I don't understand the AIPAC connection to this topic...

I'm not sure I do either. However, does anyone know what kinda of lobbying AIPAC did for Mukasey?

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Nice CNN headline:

"Two Dems revive AG nominee's chances"

Thanks guys. From now on, I pledge to refer to Schumer as "Objectively pro-torture."

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" Immigration agents at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport subjected them to more than two hours of interrogation that the musicians considered so harsh and demeaning that they filed a formal complaint with the U.S. Embassy in Helsinki.

"It was almost three hours of screaming, door-slamming and accusations, according to the report I received," said Marianne Wargelin, honorary Finnish consul for the Dakotas and most of Minnesota, which has the second largest Finnish-American population in the nation...

"They threatened us with severe punishments if we talk to each other," according to the complaint signed by musicians Ninni Poijärvi and Mika Kuokkanen, "Through the walls, I can hear officers yelling, screaming. They ask about the purpose of our trip -- except we are only allowed to give yes-or-no answers. I try to talk about our plans to meet with Finnish-American folk musicians. Nobody listens. They interrupt me constantly and they yell, 'You are a liar!"'


Ron Paul '08

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I forgot to add...it won't be long before people like these Finnish folk singers are subjected to waterboarding in these situations. It's being done one step at a time, one cave at a time.

Ron Paul '08

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I am so mad I am tearing my hair. Why do I send letters night after night? Feinstein got two from me in the last two days. Why do I care? Do we have a government of laws or of thugs? Where do we go?

Trust nobody, ask every candidate if they support torture. Ask every party leader if they support torture. God help us, and I don't even believe.

The boat is sinking and these people think they are on a 747.

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mbbsdphil wrote:

"Get a solid senate majority of Blue Dogs..."

You're kidding, right?

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Schumer and Feinstein should be rolled out of the Democratic Party. Let these parasites join with Lieberman in the hall of Democrat shame. Good riddance!

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Feinstein's reasoning that she has to confirm whomever Bush picks because otherwise Bush will appoint that person as a recess appointment is ridiculous. It resembles Voltaire's description of Candide's fate: he would have raped her had she not by a timely compliance prevented him.

The place to repair the damage is in primaries against these two and by not funneling money through or to them in this campaign. Do nothing to help the reThugs. It is sad to see people who should know better helping the Rethugs destroy this country but you don't punish these people by taking steps yourselves which continue the reThug control.

Helping Bush's DOJ be effective is probably a bad idea in the first place but certainly to pay the price of endorsing torture in order to do so is ridiculous.

For Schumer to 'respectfully disagree' that torture is this important is for him to be immensely disrespectful of what America stands for.

We need to recruit a New York State Lamont and see that he is better supported.

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Aiding war criminals.

I don't claim to know anything about war crimes, but doesn't that make Dems accessories after the fact?

So many criminals so little time.

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I am disgusted by Schumer. Disgusted. What is motivating the man? One can only conclude it's nothing good. Maybe it's the NY boys club. Maybe Schumer is deluded. Is there no line Schumer will draw when it comes to torture? Apparently not, as nothing has changed since the new nominee waffled on waterboarding. Nothing. Nothing except a backdoor meeting between the nominee and Schumer. Great. Just great. More backdoor politics. This is a disgrace.

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"We need to recruit a New York State Lamont and see that he is better supported."

Absolutely. If we had more Senators like Ned Lamont...oh wait, the Democratic party stabbed him in the back too.

Ron Paul '08

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Gee you think that maybe MoveOn.org is NOT the silly lefty-liberal org that Repugs try so hard to trash. And NO wonder they do. Repugs DO NOT want anyone organizing, BUT we, the blogs, MoveOn.org - American who care about our Constitution NEED to take a stand.

Gee you think that maybe MoveOn.org is NOT the silly lefty-liberal org that Repugs try so hard to trash. And NO wonder they do. Repugs DO NOT want anyone organizing, BUT we, the blogs, MoveOn.org - American who care about our Constitution NEED to take a stand.

Here we go again, now it's Dems that WILLING trash OUR US Constitutions, give Bush want he wants, EVERYTIME. WATERBOARD is a CRIME.

Here is WP telling us to REWARD Bush "They should confirm Mr. Mukasey" after saying this: "As we said this week, it is a shame for America to be led by a president who has countenanced waterboarding and other interrogation methods that most Americans would understand as torture."

So we need to confirm a guy who will look the OTHER way - absolutely.

What is WRONG with this picture. Someone at the WP IS TAKING MONEY UNDER THE TABLE because <a href="this op-ed MAKES NO SENSE.

It is NOT OKAY that Sens. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) announced the US Constitution does not MATTER. Why are they doing this.

Why does TMP go to the trouble of exposing Gonzale ONLY TO BACK DOWN to Mukasey? Indeed to torture?

We should NOT Tolerate this?

First, the bankrupcty bill, then the class action deal - the Dems KEEP helpping Bush - there must be accountablity,

Why is Sens. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Dianne Feinstein doing this? Because they have a safeseat - AND THEY DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK.

IT'S TIME TO END THAT INDIFFERENCE FROM THEM.

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This turn of events should come as a surprise to absolutely no one here. Schumer came out in favor of Mukasey weeks ago and Feinstein is a Rupublican in sheep's clothing.

I cannot express how utterly disgusted I am with the Democrats in Congress. They are worthless. We don't need a third party, we need a Democratic Party that stands for democracy and the rule of law.

We need to clean house. We need to somehow show our representatives that their are consequences for their actions and inactions. We need to vote them out of office. Let them rum as Republicans is they hate America so effing much.

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I am a life long Dem who just walked away from the party. I will support individual candidates, but would seriously consider a decent third party challenger. Everyone who votes to confirm Mukasey is every bit a war criminal.

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Schumer and Feinstein are so disappointing on this issue--really out of character with other courageous positions they have taken. Why don't they do as John Dean suggests? Make it a condition of their vote that Mukasey appoint a special prosecutor to investigate whether war crimes have been committed? Wouldn't that make the public feel that the Democratic Senators have spine and that justice will be served? Or do they care about justice?

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sorry, I forgot to preview but YOU KNOW it's NOT right, you Know it, AND you know why they trash MoveOn.org. Why they go out of their way to do it.

They've studied organizing, they don't like it, and you KNOW what happens when people organize, Labor Unioms - Human right - can't have that, To Many questions.

Why is Schumer, Feinstein doing this?

Time to MAKE them understand - it is NOT okay- its not okay at all.

Torture is NOT okay -Why are they doing this? WHY doesn't TMP? Is it now a partisan issue where we Dems just need to understand?

That is the problem with Dem blogs - it's horrible when Bush does but when Dems do - it's completely OKAY.

Josh Marshall will not even care.

It's like when Josh said Saddam was insane because Saddam didn't just admit he was building a nuclear weapon, therefore he must have been insane.

Josh and Pollack.

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I am so disgusted. I just wrote this to Feinstein, one of my so-called representatives:

Dear Senator Feinstein:
I am so proud of you! Thank you once again for voting to give our Leader the Attorney General he needs to conduct this war on terror. It took great courage for this man to get up in front of your Senate committee and tell us that he wasn’t sure what waterboarding was when a casual search of the internet would have turned up any number of videos and articles explaining how it works.

Never mind that there is little or no difference these days between our interrogation techniques and those described in the “Extreme Interrogation” handbook used by the Gestapo. In the one case Germans were doing it, and on the other Americans are. We all know, because the Leader has told us: AMERICANS DO NOT TORTURE, and therefore it is not torture when we do it, even if it was torture when the Nazis did.

Indeed, I feel that this is something we should be proud of, not ashamed and I urge you to push for public viewing of the more extreme interrogations our brace men and women have been conducting in our name using our tax dollars. Imagine what patriotic pride you and all other Americans would feel as they saw one of our servicemen jam a garden hose down the throat of some obvious terrorist and turn on the tap. Why we could even play patriotic music in the background to provide the proper atmosphere.

Allow me to say this as a proud descendant of German emigrants. Senator Feinstein: you are a Good German.

As we used to say in the old country,

GOTT MIT UNS!

Warren George Weis

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There is a way to fight back.
Money is the lifeblood of politics and if we cut them off, they will hear us.
Our rallying cry should be "Not another dime!"
Until the Democrats - all the Democrats - take a stand against torture, refuse to confirm Mukasey, and hold the administration in contempt for not honoring subpoenas, they get no money. I mean no one gets money. Not Clinton, Edwards, Obama or any of the other candidates. The DNC is cut off as well as the related committees. Not another dime.
When it comes to permitting torture, we are talking about the soul of our country. Boycott the Democrats and maybe then they will understand what we have been trying to tell them.
Not another dime!

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anon--I can't think of any particular reason that AIPAC would have lobbied for or against Mukasey.

In any event, I wrote to Shumer today on behalf of my parents, two holocaust survivors. They live in his former congressional district in Forest Hills. I asked him not to forget he represented so many victims of torture and not to betray them.

I could have saved the ink.

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There is a real irony in Chuck Schumer's position on the SDCC, and his relative importance to Senate Democrats in the last election, on the one hand, and the fact that he likely cost the Dems a packet of contributions today, on the other.

Funny.

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That's bullcrap statements from Feinstein and Schummer. What I really want to know is what did Bush or Cheney offer to them in political favors to sell out???

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Mukasey, Kohl, Schumer, Feinstein.

Gee, what do all these people just coincidentally have in common?

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Is TPM going to become a hangout for vocal anti-semites?

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So, it looks like Nader was right. There's no difference. Republicrat or Dumbublican. No difference.

I am sick to my stomach that the senior senator from NY is aiding and abetting the Bush regime's torture agenda. Please, somebody, find me another party to vote for.

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Oy, gevelt!

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Seeing the drift of the responses, one can only hope that the Senators, with whom we are all so disappointed, are perhaps imbued with the knowledge and principle that would justify their decision.

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So Bush will appoint more and worse people under recess appointments if this isn't confirmed? When the going gets tough, the tough get going: REFUSE RECESS. Untold numbers of innocent people have already been tortured and even killed in the name of protecting the People from terrorism. What happened to such things as "Innocent until provent guilty" or "Live free or die"?

This whole confirmation of Mukasey has a strong stink of "Fool me once: shame on you. Fool me twice: shame on me." Are our politicians holding their nose on this confirmation?

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Progressive Democrats need to take over the Democratic Party in the same way that Progressive Republicans took over the Republican Party in California early in the 20th century. That's the only way to get rid of people like Feinstein, who we are unfortunately stuck with until 2012. She is worse than worthless . . . she's helping Bush ruin the country.

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Yes. Two sides on the same coin.

Unfortunately, the coin has lost a lot of value, recently.

Following last election, the President boasted he had won political capital and he intended to spend it: he has done exactly that.

We are left to wonder what the outcome may have been, had he invested rather than squander.

What did you expect?!!

Outrage is a luxury - for those who still have time to be surprised by compromised leaders.

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It was only a matter of time before our complacent attitude and apathy led to this major meltdown.
We voted in a slim majority and thought that would work to turn the tables on the oligarchy in the White House. We collectively waited far too long for all of this righteous indignation to gain strength and determination. Now we have watched time and time again our failure to create a filibuster, or send through a veto-proof bill, and ultimately with todays knife in the back, we have watched nearly our last shred of pride and respect for the Constitution and all it stands for get trampled on !!! It will take years for us to recover from and repair the decimation, but we must remember to never let our guard down again! Never let anyone convince us that our good is what they are interested in.
May God bless us all and help us to find our way back to the once great, revered and respected country we once were.

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"The boat is sinking and these people think they are on a 747."

When a 747 depletes its fuel supply, the conclusion is guaranteed. There's no viable life raft available. Bye bye.

"Seeing the drift of the responses, one can only hope that the Senators, with whom we are all so disappointed, are perhaps imbued with the knowledge and principle that would justify their decision."

What drift? The responses were almost solidly against these stupid decisions. What knowledge? The drift is that these two have suddenly gone senile. And "principle"? I gagged on that one.

Let's see how the discussion during open committee session proceeds. Having Lahey throw some spittle on Diane and Chuck would be, in the least, entertaining. Perhaps a nice public chewing, plus all those calls and letters, might swing their vote, although I doubt it.

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I think this is a real sell-out by Schumer and Feinstein. One of the primary duties of Congress is to provide oversight to the executive branch -- and no one needs more oversight than the current WH occupant. Maybe Muskasey is better than Gonzales, he certainly doesn't seem like he will just rubber-stamp anything this admin does. But the issue of torture is too important to just let die for expediency's sake.

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ummm...the AG doesn't get to decide the law, he just has the responsibility of enforcing it. All the that Senator Schumer or Senator Feinstein or Senator Clinton (or any other senator) needs to do is introduce a bill that makes waterboarding illegal. Simple. Done. Endgame. But will they do it? Do they have the guts? They are responsible for writing federal law - how can they put someone on the hook for laws that have not yet been passed?

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And to make sure that I am clear: Democrats control the house and senate. Why not send a bill to the White House that specifically outlaws waterboarding? Wouldn't that solve all of these issues? Or am I missing something? Is the goal to stop (possible) waterboarding, or to beat up on someone over a law that has never been passed>

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Schumer's a pussy and Feinstein's a war profiteer (her husband makes them millions in defense contracts), so what would you expect? The rest of the dems have no backbone to stop them. They're all a joke..

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Score one for AIPAC.

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You guys are a hoot! Secret cabals of Jews conspiring to destroy a once great nation using heaps of money, blackmail, insidious mind control and political manipulation...

That strain of paranoia sounds familiar, and it is a cancer that will eat the left alive unless it is excised, and now! A little more verbiage like that from ostensible liberals and they will be indistinguishable from the sick Nazi loons who frequent Stormfront.

I'm all for the righteous indignation, but really, people - get a grip!

Or is this merely the echo of the paranoia I hear from the rightists who nanner-on endlessly about socialist this and communist that?

Good God, maybe we do need a third party, but I wouldn't want to be in it with people like that - would you?

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A vote for Mukasey is a vote for torture. Period. The argument that this is the best Bush will offer so they must approve him is moronic.

Forcing Bush to make a recess appointment makes accountability clear; approving his choice makes one complicit. How can Democrats ever negotiate from strength with an attitude like, "oh, well, that's the best we're gonna get, waaa waa waaaa, so let's all get on our knees and kiss Bush's a$$."

The only thing Democrats can control is their own behavior. Follow John Dean's advice: require a special counsel to investigate war crimes. That doesn't mean you'll ever get it, but what it does mean is that Democrats will actually stand for something.

As it stands, thanks to these two filthy dirty rotten Republicrats, and thanks to the spineless, feckless, ineffectual, leaderless leadership in both Houses, the Democrats have managed to stand for NOTHING. ZERO. NIL. NADA. We have a party that only Caspar Milquetoast could love. And their attitude continues to be that they must be rewarded with more power before they lift even a goddamn pinky for us in return.

It appears this lifelong Democrat will be abandoning these losers for good in 2008. That's becoming more clear and more irreversible with each passing spineless act. I'm sick of this crap.

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I wonder what it is that Feinstein and Schumer see in their fellow Jew that overrides his support for torture, secrecy, domestic spying and law breaking by the president.

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I guess I'll be the odd man out here. When I read Schumer's statement in the Times this morning, I knew it would piss a lot of people off. And it makes me furious that the calculus is what it is - but it is.

No Mukasey means an utter Bush tool(excuse me, acting tool)remains in charge. If Schumer introduces and pushes and passes a bill next week banning waterboarding and other sorts of obvious torture, then we'll get to see if Mukasey acts as he said he would to Schumer: "The judge made clear to me that were Congress to pass a law banning certain interrogation techniques, we would clearly be acting within our constitutional authority. And he flatly told me that the president would have absolutely no legal authority to ignore such a law, not even under some theory of inherent authority under Article II of the Constitution. He also pledged to enforce such a law and repeated his willingness to leave office rather than participate in a violation of law."

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Mr. Buckburris:
Such prose! Such insight! And what courage--to wrap your post around the word "Jew"!

Given a choice between the haters and the idiots, I'll take the idiots every time.

nrglaw

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Never underestimate the influence of the Israeli government agents at AIPAC.

"There's a stranger in our house."