Question for TPM reporters: The US is not the only court with jurisdiction over war crimes(Torture) Nor do international courts have time limitations. (witness Spanish and British courts going after Pinochet) So what are the legal ramifications for Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfield and assorted co-conspiritors like Pelosi. If US courts fail to indict can we wake up one morning in 2009 or 2019 and find out that there is a warrant of extradition out from someplace like Norway?I seem to recall Rumsfield was recently hustled out of France just ahead of a French court indictment. This is probably the most unreported aspect of the terror-gate scandal.

Unfortunately, apparently heads of state have immunity ????????????
(unless you are the LOSER of history, like Hitler, Tojo, etc.)

Rumsfield got a pass on the charges...

***********Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:27pm EST

PARIS (Reuters) - The Paris prosecutors' office has dismissed a suit against Donald Rumsfeld accusing the former U.S. defense secretary of torture, human rights groups who brought the case said on Friday.
The plaintiffs, who included the French-based International Federation of Human Rights Leagues (FIDH) and the U.S. Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR), said Rumsfeld had authorized interrogation techniques that led to rights abuses.

The FIDH said it had received a letter from the prosecutors' office ruling that Rumsfeld benefited from a "customary" immunity from prosecution granted to heads of state and government and foreign ministers, even after they left office.
It said in a statement it was "astonished at such a mistaken argument" and said customary immunity from prosecution did not exist under international law.

The suit was filed in October during a visit to France by Rumsfeld...

I think we need to rephrase the question.
They probably stopped videotaping in 2002 because videotape is bulky and so last century.Try finding a new vcr these days.You may as well ask for the super 8 films along with the 8 track audio.They don't have it. They said they stopped "videotaping" stuff in 2002. They are most likely telling the truth

I bet they made digital format copies of every video and audio tape that they destroyed and now they are on hard drives, portable hard drives and dvds etc. When you ask for the "tapes" they tell you that they don't exist, we destroyed them. Again, this could be true.

We should ask:

When did interrogation personnel in charge of recording the interrogations start to phase out the use of videotape and begin to use primarily a digital format for recording and preserving video? 2002 maybe ?

What formats are now used for recording, preserving, duplication and distribution of recent and current interrogations?

Were any of the videotapes that were destroyed transfered to a digital format for preservation and\or duplication purposes before being destroyed? Were the digital format copies also destroyed?

Were any other analog or digital interrogation tapes, whether they be video or audio, transfered to a digital format for storage and\or duplication purposes?

Who says the taping has stopped?

What "new name" could they use to claim "the taping stopped," but the recordings -- in whatever format, through whatever means -- continues?

Surely, if there were only "limited" people with access to the interrogation -- thus, relying on the tapes -- in 2002, there's been no change.

How else does one explain the President's fascination with videotaping his "search" for WMD? This President is at war not just with an enemy, but with the notion of the rule of law. He must have evidence of his victory, despite the prospect of his defeat before that law.

There are other tapes. The taping continues. They call it by another name.

You're missing one other reason for the tapes. The personal gratification of the sadist in the White House.

There is no statute of limitations on being a victim of torture. I'd say Busholini and Co are in for a long hard night--at least I hope that is true.

Keep up the good work, TPM! You did your part to cover the Italian forgeries...but no one has actually paid much attention in the United States...for reasons that may also be illegal. Hopefully in the next election, we'll get a more thorough housecleaning of the House and get down with some real trials and successful prosecutions of the proto-fascists.

It would seem odd if the CIA DIDN'T videotape EVERY interrogation, especially "high value" captives interviewed in a foreign country and foreign language.

Transcripts miss a lot of nuance, as do translations of transcripts. Audio tapes are good, but having a video to refer to is likely invaluable. It's also likely useful in training, refining technique, and determining the veracity of statements made by the person being interrogated and/or tortured.

If the CIA thought the tapes were so operationally vital, then by destroying them they also betrayed the basic reason for the CIA's very existence, to gather intelligence. So, not only did they deliberately destroy evidence to be used in criminal prosecutions, they also committed treason by betraying their own agency. They destroyed evidence and intelligence. Quite a bunch we got over there at the CIA.

"Videotape" (vcr tape) is being phased out and becoming obsolete.

"Videotaping" is still used as a verb to describe capturing of video and audio, whether it is on actually tape or in a digital non tape format(dvd).

Copies are now usually made in a digital format(dvds,hard drives ,etc.).

In 2002 , let's assume, you stopped using "videotape" to record video and audio because you have upgraded to digital formats,and then you destroy videotapes because they take up a lot of space and you have made digital format copies.

Now you can keep telling media, congressmen and judges with a straight face that you have stopped "videotaping" interrogations and "videotapes" don't exist of past and recent interrogations.

I would like somebody to ask if there are any videos and/or audio recordings of interrogations, copies or master recordings, that exist in any analog or digital format that have not been disclosed .

When you use the terms "videotape" or "videotaping" you are giving them an easy out.

Who is in charge of the CIA?

Who runs it?

It isn't Congress.

You don't have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.

MW: "The real question is why aren't they afraid of criminal prosecution."

Not a credible assertion: If they "weren't afraid" of prosecution, they would never have destroyed the tapes.

I don't think it's too cynical to say that the reason they were taped is the same reason the Nazis made meticulous written and photographic records of their crimes -- to show their superiors that they were doing their jobs.

Why were they destroyed? To avoid, if possible, criminal prosecution.

Does anyone think, for ex, that the Nazis would not have destroyed all the records of their crimes if they had the time and the means to do so?

People who murder and torture are careerists and they get ahead by pleasing their bosses and keeping those bosses out of trouble.

"the CIA recorded the interrogations on videotape so they could later prove that their interrogation techniques were legal

then the CIA destroyed the tapes because the tapes showed that the interrogation techniques were torture ???

does anybody else see the disconnect there ???"

1) The CIA was covering their ass because they knew it was toture but was ordered by higher ups. i.e. Cheney

2) They were destroyed because Cheney is afraid of being tried for war crimes and being anally raped by Ratko Mladić (when he is caught and they share a cell).

Some CIA CYA ?

Perhaps, because the CIA interregators knew that what they were being ordered to do was very illegal,and they didn't want to do it, they first recorded the actual conference calls with Dick and George personally giving the orders to waterboard,etc... and then proceeded to fill the rest of the tape with the dirty deeds.

If that was the case, then they would still keep copies for the CIA CYA and then tell Dick and George " Sure,of course, we destroyed everything you ordered us to,don't worry 'bout it."

There has to be copies,lots of them, and this administration is way too incompetent to find and destroy all of them .