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CIA Director Confirms Details of Waterboarding
I guess they figure the cat's out of the bag. Last month, former Director of National Intelligence John Negroponte, trying to accent the positive, confirmed that the U.S. had used waterboarding, but said they hadn't done it "in years." Today, CIA Director Michael Hayden got more specific in a public Congressional hearing. From Reuters:
The CIA on three occasions shortly after the September 11 attacks used a widely condemned interrogation technique known as waterboarding, CIA Director Michael Hayden told Congress on Tuesday.*"Waterboarding has been used on only three detainees," Hayden told the Senate Intelligence Committee, publicly specifying the number of subjects and naming them for the first time, as Congress considers banning the technique.
Those subjected to waterboarding were al Qaeda suspects Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, Hayden said. [The CIA's destroyed torture tapes, remember, documented the interrogations of Zubaydah and Nashiri.]
He said waterboarding has not been used in five years, but it was used then because of concerns of imminent catastrophic attacks on the United States and because authorities had limited knowledge of al Qaeda.
"The circumstances are different than they were in late 2001, early 2002," Hayden said.
*Update: See the transcript below to see exactly what Hayden said. But I think it's not clear that waterboarding was only used on "three occasions" as Reuters reports. Hayden said it was used on three detainees, but didn't say exactly how many times it was used.
This information is not surprising in and of itself; these details have been reported by various outlets, citing anonymous sources. But Hayden's testimony is part of a bid to beat back a bipartisan attempt by Sens. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), Chuck Hagel (R-NE), and others to pass legislation that would force the CIA's interrogation policy to conform with the Army Field Manual. And rather than continuing to refuse to publicly discuss these issues, the administration seems to have adopted a change in tactics. Waterboarding was used only under extraordinary circumstances, Hayden's saying. And as Attorney General Michael Mukasey disclosed last week, it's not part of the current array of interrogation techniques deemed lawful. So it's not worth legislating to prevent its use.
It's a message and rationale that fits with Mukasey's testimony before Congress last week, that you have to "balance the value of doing something against the cost of doing it." And although Hayden seems to be stressing the uniqueness of those circumstances (in and of itself highly debatable), Mukasey clearly refused last week to declare that such circumstances will never arise again. He was, however, at pains to say that every major official from Hayden to Mukasey to the President would have to sign off on its use again.
Somehow I don't think that all this is going to serve to diminish Congressional concern.
Update: You can read a transcript of Hayden's comments on this below.
In the life of the CIA detention program, we have held fewer than 100 people. And actually, fewer than one-third of those people have had any techniques used against them, enhanced techniques, in the CIA program....Let me make it very clear and to state so officially in front of this committee that waterboarding has been used on only three detainees. It was used on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. It was used on Abu Zubaydah. And it was used on Nashiri.
The CIA has not used waterboarding for almost five years. We used it against these three high-value detainees because of the circumstances of the time. Very critical to those circumstances was the belief that additional catastrophic attacks against the homeland were imminent.
In addition to that, my agency and our community writ large had limited knowledge about Al Qaida and its workings. Those two realities have changed.
None of us up here are going to make the claim -- and I'm sure we'll get this question before we're done this morning -- is America safe. And we'll answer it is safer, but it is not yet safe. So this one never gets to zero.
But the circumstances under which we are operating, we believe, are, frankly, different than they were in late 2001 and early 2002. We also have much more extensive knowledge of Al Qaida.And I've told this to the committee in other sessions -- our most powerful tool in questioning any detainee is our knowledge, that we are able to bring that knowledge to bear.





Comments (17)
I wouls think that this admission on Hayden's part will provide more fodder for the congressional investigations. Also just because waterboarding use was limited does not mean there is not any reason for meaningful legislation that would prohibit its practice. I see no reason to justify the use of this Spanish Inquisition-ary tactic of extracting information involuntarily by voluntarily drowning someone. It would seem to me that many of the experts in the field find this type of interrogation technique useless and counter-productive towards the ultimate goal. Many of us remember the tactics and the techniques used by other military regimes as horrendous and inhumane. This type of attitude was what lead the US to having a position of authority throughout the world. We ave a great army but we use it wisely. So let's all return to a reality based world rather than an ideological or hypothetical.
February 5, 2008 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is it me, or does this reek of the "I only had a couple of beers" defense? Cut to: Hayden stumbling in front of his cars' bumper.
February 5, 2008 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
"We don't torture"
Square that statement with this current development, please.
February 5, 2008 1:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ok... let's look at what we have.
admission that waterboarding was done, on 3 people, way back when.
Denial that waterboarding is used now.
Parsing if waterboarding IS ( was?) "torture" and illegal.
Destruction of evidence of waterboarding ( the tapes).
Could it be that Mukasey is setting up a legal defence for any future war crime charges?
Or....maybe the tapes were destroyed because there was no admission on them of 911 involvement by al Qaeda suspects Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri.
Either way...not good.
February 5, 2008 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is it me, or did the excuses not fly during the war crimes trials following WWII?
Not that I think there will ever be International war crimes tribunals against the United States (at least not yet, but if we keep it up we might get some in 50 years or so), but if there were war crimes tribunals... They already KNOW for an absolute fact that their excuses won't hold water.
Quite frankly I can't believe our government has the nerve to even make excuses about the use of waterboarding, seeing as how we have prosecuted people in the past for waterboarding because it was torture.
February 5, 2008 2:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
OK..now that the admission is out of the way - WHEN DO THE TRIALS BEGIN???
February 5, 2008 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Three times too many. I don't care if it was one. I agree with Winski, when do the war crimes trials begin?
February 5, 2008 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
If "[t]he CIA has not used waterboarding for almost five years", that means it was last used sometime in the first half of 2003. If, as Hayden's comments seem to imply, it was first used in late 2001 and early 2002, that would mean waterboarding was in use for at least a full year. Does anyone believe that during that year it was only used three times?
February 5, 2008 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
dixiegrrrl says:
Could it be that Mukasey is setting up a legal defence for any future war crime charges?
Yeah, it smells to me like they are very interested in keeping legislation Off the Books pertaining waterboarrding so they cannot be nailed for that particular crime. They must be worried about that specific problem. Well known verbiage, there is evidence (was), it has been admitted to, enough people prob. have the dirt...so they are going all out to keep that legislation from happening.
February 5, 2008 3:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is anyone else struck by the first paragraph of Hayden's statement?
If you assume that "enhanced techniques" = torture, then what he is saying is that close to a third of the people caught up in the CIA's detention program have been tortured. Only 3 of them may have been subjected to waterboarding, but 30 or so more have been subjected to some other form of what most of use here would certainly consider torture.
February 5, 2008 4:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is the lack of a "Posted by" tag for some of us a known problem that they are working on a fix for? I have a talkingpointsmemo.com profile. Is there something else I need to do?
slb
February 5, 2008 4:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
dmd76 hit the nail on the head. Why would they only torture 3 people? Especially if they were using waterboarding as an 'interrogation tactic' for a year.
Agree with earlier comments. Torture is expressly forbidden by our constitution, therefore its use constitutes a treasonous act i.e. war crime!
February 5, 2008 7:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Some time ago I posted a comment on Balkinization suggesting that they (CIA that is) should "fess up to your crimes, proclaim yourself ready to stand a trial, accept any punishment that may come your way and let the system go through its motions".
That was actually an honest suggestion, for the sad fact of life is no torturers torturing on behalf of any government have never been punished by their own governments so why should that be different this time around.
You think they would be more than happy to run with it, but no! Instead they sent two sorry looking a-holes of theirs to meet me at my usual coffee place. Like that was to accomplish something.
But when my simple observations were more than amply confirmed by Mukasey testimony on waterboarding a few days back (as sad as that testimony was), they finally saw the light as we see today.
Not that I credit myself with anything here, but it is nice to see them capable of rational thinking sometimes.
February 5, 2008 8:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm going to take a big step back here that I haven't seen ANYONE take yet. They waterboarded three guys in 2001. They didn't just make up waterboarding techniques out of thin air and on the spot. They had exceptionally well-trained interrogators already available who were skilled in waterboarding techniques. If they screwed it up the subject would DIE. My guess is it would take a lot of practice to know exactly where the tipping point was between a dead subject and a screaming say-anything subject. WTF? Is ANYONE paying attention? Hello?????
February 6, 2008 3:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm going to take a big step back here that I haven't seen ANYONE take yet. They waterboarded three guys in 2001. They didn't just make up waterboarding techniques out of thin air and on the spot. They had exceptionally well-trained interrogators already available who were skilled in waterboarding techniques. If they screwed it up the subject would DIE. My guess is it would take a lot of practice to know exactly where the tipping point was between a dead subject and a screaming say-anything subject. WTF? Is ANYONE paying attention? Hello?????
February 6, 2008 3:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
So, to parse the statement "We don't torture", you have to define the word "don't". "Do" is a present tense verb like the word "is". Oh, how the right cackled when Clinton pointed out the ambiguity in that simple word.
February 6, 2008 11:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
I love this part:
"our most powerful tool in questioning any detainee is our knowledge, that we are able to bring that knowledge to bear."
We bring our knowledge of how to waterboard to bear? If it's such a powerful tool, then they don't need to waterboard.
February 6, 2008 4:46 PM | Reply | Permalink