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White House: Waterboarding Is A-OK
The administration's pro-waterboarding PR offensive continues!
Today, White House spokesman Tony Fratto made clear that this was a clear, conscious decision to make the push, and that it's an interrogation tool they definitely want to have as an option going forward:
"And so the consensus was that on this one particular technique that these officials would have the opportunity to address them — in not just a public setting, but in a setting in front of members of Congress, and to be very clear about how those techniques were used and what the benefits were of them."Fratto said CIA interrogators could use waterboarding again, but would need the president's approval to do so. That approval would "depend on the circumstances," with one important factor being "belief that an attack might be imminent," Fratto said.
Fratto also apparently used the administration's it's not torture because "we do not torture" line. And "torture is illegal" and this was deemed legal therefore it's not torture. You can choose your favorite tautology.
I think for the first time, Fratto also flatly said that the attorney general (John Ashcroft) approved the use of waterboarding. We'll have the transcript of Fratto's remarks as soon as they're available.
Comments (22)
Thanks, Michael Mukasy, for creating a whole new branch of logic -- Mukasian logic:
"But on the face of it, it would make no more sense to apply the Constitution to the CIA than it would be to take the Constitution and apply it to my agency." (Paraphrasing slightly.)
February 6, 2008 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Time for the War Crimes trials to begin!!! TODAY!
February 6, 2008 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Time for the War Crimes trials to begin!! TODAY!
February 6, 2008 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just so no one forgets what a vile practice this is, here's a quick description and graphic. How American is this?
http://tshirtinsurgency.com/gitmo-shirt
February 6, 2008 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Waterboarding is often described as "simulated drowning." However, as Malcolm Nance wrote in the Small Wars Journal, the victim is in fact drowning and can die. When did the USA become a banana republic?
February 6, 2008 12:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's not American its Spanish Inquisition time, baby! Along with all the other spiritual messages brought down from Mt, Sanai by Senor Bush is the lovely means by which heretics and pagans were forced to confess of the earth-loving principles. I believe next mr.Bush will bring back the Rack and the chinese water torture just to spice things up a little.
On a serious note does anyone think that waterboarding disqualifies someone from saying that they have integrity for the Human Race?
Bring the trials on but for now I will settle for expansive government change thorughout all arms of the government!
February 6, 2008 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
America really is dead. We now live in a banana republic, I just wish we had the nice weather to go with it.
February 6, 2008 12:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe we can help George's PR boys out with a few snappy slogans. I'll get us started...
"Waterboarding, it's not just for breakfast anymore."
"Waterboarding, it's what people are having for dinner."
"This is not your father's Waterboarding."
And, of course, the perennial favorite...
"Waterboarding...It's FAN-TASTIC!"
Open to suggestions...
February 6, 2008 12:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I can't believe it's not Waterboarding!"
February 6, 2008 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
You mean, "I Can't Believe It's Not Drowning!"
February 6, 2008 12:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Read this page from Human Rights Watch and tell me our president hasn't committed a crime. Impeachment and imprisonment. Why is no one that can do anything about this not uttering a peep. We should all be crying off whith there heads!
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/24/usint8614.htm
February 6, 2008 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Bush administration has clearly admitted to allowing and ordering torture and therefor should be held accountable. It is the responsibility of congress to impeach Bush and Co. and bring charges against them.
February 6, 2008 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
So if the Attorney General says its legal, its legal? Aren't we back to Nuremburg here?
February 6, 2008 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
These people are the filthiest sort of slime. How dare they call themselves Americans? They've done nothing but destroy the principles this country was founded upon.
February 6, 2008 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Time for a citizens arrest.
February 6, 2008 3:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
But hrebendorf, according to the Bushies, WE'RE the ones who hate America.
And if their version of America is what America is, they're right about me.
Here's a commercial for Fox News to air:
INTERIOR Interrogation chamber: Bound, seated, evil-looking terrorist and several clean-cut, buff Americans in crisp uniforms.
Ominous music plays as soundless frustrated interrogators try to extract information verbally from terrorist, who scoffs at their efforts, smiling derisively.
CUT TO EXTERIOR Several views of American city skyline
CUT TO EXTERIOR Unidentified buildings exploding; white, well-dressed people running from falling debris.
CUT TO INTERIOR Interrogation chamber. Uniformed interrogator hits his forehead with the heel of his hand and says:
"We coulda used waterboarding!"
CUT TO QUICK SHOTS OF cowed, bound terrorists shuffling; waterboard with bound suspect on it; uniformed Americans slapping one another on their backs and high-fiving; long-shots of shining cities with blue skies.
MUSIC America the Beautiful, instrumental
CUT TO EXTERIOR Statue of Liberty. Camera goes from long shot to low-angle shot of Liberty's head and torch.
FADE OUT
I'm sure they almost have the ad in the can, ready for airing, ready to stir up Americans' mindless fears. That way, the next time they decide to waterboard, the fearful lemmings will be ready to follow the leaders off of the cliff of ethics into the abyss of partisan self-interest. Of course, the leaders will actually have parachutes that land them square in the laps of the corporations.
February 6, 2008 3:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
... Thanks, Michael Mukasy, for creating a whole new branch of logic ...
Look forget Mukasey, he seems OK on some level, but he took a job of AG willingly, knowing full well that meant assuming responsibilities of a legal consiglieri to Cheney/Bush administration. No way he will do anything here. He has to wade now in the same ethically brackish waters the rest of them do.
Recall his last testimony, not only a disappointment but a major disaster, willingly dragging this country good image through the mud again on behalf of his principals.
In a sense he was perfectly suited for a job, US federal judges sit alone in those mediaeval "chambers" of their, overflowing with self perceived importance, too haughty to talk to anybody, concocting various legal theories out of arrogance sometimes boredom and having nobody to bounce them off to see if they make any sense, intellectually, ethically or otherwise. It's alone at the top, and being alone for too long leads to various anomalies as any competent shrink will tell you.
In his case it took Sen. Biden to tell him that his stand amounted to moral relativism of the worst kind, ends justify means as WaPo put it, a stand so repugnant most civilized people have hard time confronting it in other people, as was amply evident in those hearings.
Mukasey stepped out of his dark chambers into a bright daylight of open democratic society for the first time in his life probably so it is not surprising that he doesn't see very well.
February 6, 2008 4:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've got more thoughts on this latest persiflage here.
The maladministration is trying to "justify" this by talking only about the waterboarding (and ignoring such as the torture of el-Masri), and saying it's an 'exceptional' type procedure, used only for the 'baddest of the bad', and only when we really need to do it to save lives.
But all that crapola falls to pieces if anyone looks carefully. See my first link above.
Cheers,
February 6, 2008 6:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fratto said CIA interrogators could use waterboarding again, but would need the president's approval to do so.
So does that mean that Bush signed off on the previous uses of waterboarding? Was there an actual explicit approval?
If not, why is the CIA doing this stuff without approval.
If so, isn't that a confession to war crimes?
February 6, 2008 6:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Snarki:
So does that mean that Bush signed off on the previous uses of waterboarding? Was there an actual explicit approval?
If not, why is the CIA doing this stuff without approval.
If so, isn't that a confession to war crimes?
I suggested precisely that in my first link a couple comments above. I think the answer would be "yes" ... which is why the maladministration is so intent on insisting that waterboarding isn't torture....
Cheers,
February 6, 2008 6:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
"White House: Waterboarding Is A-OK"
Geneva bar abuse. Whether waterboarding is or isn't torture is a meaningless sideshow. The US is implicitly arguing "for" war crimes. It's illegal to advocate for violations of the laws of war.
February 6, 2008 8:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
zuch,
yes, Bush's approval is implied.
But I think that it's important to get Bush's approval of past waterboarding on the record, explictly, publically and undeniably.
I mean, this is an *obvious* follow-up question; too bad our media can't be bothered to ask it.
February 6, 2008 10:03 PM | Reply | Permalink