TPM Muckraker

« previous | MUCK HOME | next »

Bush: Yeah, We Signed Off on Torture. So What?

ABC finally got a hold of President Bush to respond to its story that top administration officials, as members of the National Security Council's Principals Committee, had signed off on "enhanced interrogation" techniques in 2002 that included waterboarding. And Bush doesn't understand what the big deal is:

"Well, we started to connect the dots, in order to protect the American people." Bush told ABC New s White House correspondent Martha Raddatz. "And, yes, I'm aware our national security team met on this issue. And I approved."...

Bush said the ABC report about the Principals' involvement was not so "startling."

The AP reported yesterday that the administration officials involved in the meetings "took care to insulate President Bush" from the decisions made during them.


49 Comments

| Leave a comment

Did our President just admit to signing off on war crimes that were to be committed in our name ?
If so - what -can be done about it prior to the election ? What can we do about it after the election ?

Nothing, nada, vip, zero.

Plenty CAN but nothing WILL be done.

The present democratic party's betrayal of America, its constitution, rule of law, and ideals is second only to the Republicans'.

user-pic

2008 Presidential Election Weekly Poll

http://www.votenic.com

Results Posted Tomorrow!

Check Back Weekly For Updates!

Not sure how to read the Prez's comment -- possibly he is only saying he approved of the idea that the security team would meet on the issue, not that he approved of what they decided.

Moronic, true, but that's the kind of parsing we'll get if there's ever any kind of trial or, I dunno, media attention.

The Foregone Conclusion in PA is much less interesting than the fact that for the first time ever in US history, a president reversed the tradition that Washington established during the Revolution. You know, the tradition of us not torturing prisoners. But, whatever, right?

user-pic

"You're damned right I ordered the Code Red!"

How amazing,he admits it and no outcry from the press!

How amazing,he admits it and no outcry from the press!

How amazing,he admits it and no outcry from the press!

The meetings, the memos, the administration hasn't had to face consequences for their actions p;reviously, so now it seems they're getting sloppy.

WHEN DO THE IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS BEGIN???

THIS MAKES WATERGATE LOOK LIKE A HIGH SCHOOL PICKNICK!!

user-pic

What Winski said.

Cheney was in on the decision, Bush approved, impeach 'em both.

user-pic

Let me add: there's no need for long, complicated hearings. We've got Bush's testimony. Open and shut.

The Sadist-in-Chief is just laying out his defense. He can't use the old standby..." I vas just followink orders.." so he falls back on the wrap himself in the flag defense. Sad thing is it'll work too. America is so fu*ked up, its like a nation of spineless psychotics at the 3PM Hate Rally.

Keith Olbermann had jOHN Dean on tonight regarding Bush 's admission of war crimes .Olbermann asked why don't the democratic nominees make this a campaign issue.That would be a good start - we need to keep this out in the MSM .And Bushie you are wrong we can do something about this - we can & will make it a campaign issue -and the next Attorney General will bring accountabilty to this whole bunch of war criminals.
...currently we need to keep this issue alive for the next nine months .
And none of these Prinicipals will ever be able to travel overseas again - because the Hague is waiting for any and all of them - including much to my surprise & sorry former Secretary of State Colin Powell - ( the good general has lost his way - if he had but listened to his XO Colonel Wilkinson )

Unfortunately the principals will be doing fine poolside in Dubai. That's why it's so important for the Democrats to get up and off of it now and Impeach, Impeach, Impeach. Sadly, I don't see the Spineless Pack doing anything more than making some appropriately-ineffectual noise about it. Would that they were Spinless instead of Spineless. Money talks; Democracy walks . . .

Let's work towards a Democratic President and a filibuster proof Senate to put the United States under the jurisdiction of the Hague. Then we can arrest the Principals and hand them over to the Hague ourselves.

>

From your typing fingers to the universe's karmic record (and the Democrats' ears and spines), Al in Austex--and I like Paul's agenda. The USA has got to clean its own house if we ever want to regain any moral authority in this world, and a series of war-crimes trials against the Bush administration would be a great way to start. Not only that, but it would set a precedent to at least *concern* future administrations of either party.

From your typing fingers to the universe's karmic record
Sadly, that's the only place any of this is going.

"We don't torture"

-George W. Bush

Someone square that one with today's development, please?

This case is not "slam dunk." It is prima facie. Someone will have to translate that for the president.

amazing.

that people here dont know that the The United States Military Commissions Act of 2006 signed by bush gave retro-active immunity to anyone involved in any crime involving torture or violations of law.

sheessh

Yes, exactly. The Bush administration is really big on retroactive immunity.

Jade, I am glad that "Dubya" is acting like a grandstanding, strutting cowboy about torture. Over-confidence breeds sloppiness breeds fatal mistakes, often leading to a critical mass of outrage among the populace. Nixon's "Saturday Night Massacre" is a perfect example of how power-mad narcissists can be thier own worst enemies. So, let's just hope he keeps talking and talking and talking.......

This brings me back to Abu Ghraib. The defendants claimed the push to use "enhanced" techniques came from above them. The government denied this of course and claimed they acted alone. I have to wonder if this is true.

If they were ordered to use these procedures, I don't think they should have complied, as this seems to me to be an illegal order. So no matter what this does not excuse them. I think they themselves were led to believe their behavior was OK without explicit orders.

Did the White House and/or upper government officials push Abu Ghraib officials towards the path of torture? Can the involved officers be brought to justice, not just the enlisted, if this is determined to be the case?

Miles Webster

"The United States of America does not torture. And that is important for people around the world to understand." -- Bush, press conference, November 29, 2005

www.factcheck.org/a_tortured_history.html

I know no way of expressing my reaction to this other than this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dib2-HBsF08

A lot of people feel this way. When their apathy and fear of repression can be overcome, perhaps something will change.

For many years the stranglehold of "democracy" with it's apparently indefatigable hydra of government tentacles to control public dissent and actionable opposition has been carefully refined.

If anyone has read Pirsig
they cannot escape the conclusion that Government is an entity unto itself. It sets its own rules and rides atop the people. No one person controls its direction. It no longer serves the people (if it ever did - as Mark Twain observed) except to give them space to generate revenue then farm their energies to feed itself and grow larger, more powerful and oppressive. But any farmer will tell you that if you farm too aggressively, the system will collapse.

Come on you doctoral PoliSci candidates, don't you have some ideas?

Perhaps I should be clearer that government needs attention, not destruction.

user-pic

As a US Gov't Official, you either impeach then prosecute torturers/war criminals OR you become one yourself.

Yes, it's just that simple.

Some other "simplicity" for the Impeachophobic Community:

  • Impeachment would take weeks (perhaps days), not months. All that's left to do is a simple up or down vote on what's already in the public record.

  • Both must be impeached and there's no reason not to do it on the same articles. Succession will not be an issue as staggered resignations will be allowed. (Stop over-thinking everything.)
  • We already have the votes to convict in the Senate.
  • The will be no (U.S.) prosecutions without impeachment. Failure to impeach is exoneration for the regime. (Excommunicate from that "cargo cult.")
  • Whatever "ickiness" you're connecting to the Clinton farce is oxymoronic.
  • Impeachment is the ONLY way to even begin to Redeem Our National Soul. It may well be the the path to reunite our once-great nation.

In general, stop your defeatist, escapist, culpably-irresponsible whining.

Impeachment is our ONLY moral, patriotic option.

--

"We do not torture"- and we don't tell lies!

user-pic

It's not torture if the President says it's not. The President is Commander-in-Chief, and during a time of war, he can do whatever he wants. It's all legal. He makes the laws as he needs them. The Constitution says so.

Got it?

Well if you don't, he can come over and shoot you. That's legal too!

(What is most frustrating is that at least 1/3 of the American people KNEW that this was the way Bush et al would behave, and were behaving, but our f*cked up spineless Democrats (not all, but the majority), the supposed opposition party, turned up their rumps and said "F*ck me again." Because they were scared of a "vengeful mood" in the general population, which was whipped up by a dick-sucking traditional news media getting paid off or threatened by their corporate owners, who were using the "war" as an excuse to rip off the Treasury for present and all future tax revenues. And none of us believe that Bush et al are going to pay any price at all.

We just think that we will be lucky if we get to survive them and they go away, like the Saxon British and the Vikings.)

Shorter version: "Oh, that torture. I did it. I'm glad I did it and I'll do it again."

Did we really expect anything else from our Bully-in-Chief? What is torture other than the most sadistic form of bullying there is?

-AF
Andrew Sullivan Is A Fraud

We the people of the United States are one sick body politic, to permit these swine to retain power in our name. Years ago, I corresponded with my congressman (M. Thompson D-Ca.) urging impeachment. By his lights, his feeble calculations, it was off the table. As with Pelosi, I wonder if he grew ill upon hearing Bush boast of his war crimes? Probably not.

user-pic

Any body remember reading the reports of Abu Ghraib...accusations of sodomy and rape performed on children (trying to force the relatives to give "information") was that also okayed by Bush/Cheney and company...?

This is the "So?..." Cheney defense/attitude. The day of the ABC story I watched in vain for CNN etc., to have one tiny little blip about it. Olbermann hit it hard, possibly Lehr mentioned it. THE MAINSTREAM PRESS IS DEFUNCT, A COLLABORATOR! I hope the blogs take them down eventually. Are out-and-out war crimes passe` in this generation? It is the absolute duty of the next Administration to painstakingly uncover and expose every single fact concerning the Bush Administration's lawless actions.

War crimes tribunals have to begin. America will never recover unless this happens. The shadow of Nixon's pardon casts itself into our future.

That being said, take time to prepare indictments. Get a rock-solid case. And bring indictments in Feb 2009 when pardons by W are impossible. No executive can be permitted cloak itself against these charges, or we doom all future presidents to making the same mistakes, Obama included.

Candidates should now be asked repeatedly what they intend to do about it. Will the next DoJ do its job? These are serious crimes that no election can undo.

Only war crimes tials, for justice, and so America can finally have the debate over terrorism it was denied after 9/11.

Pax,
M.

"War crimes tribunals have to begin. America will never recover unless this happens. The shadow of Nixon's pardon casts itself into our future".

Right you are. In light of Bush's torture boast, I wonder if the "I opposed the Nixon pardon then but today deem it wise" crowd will reconsider its ramifications, yet again. Richard Reeves, for example.

"Hello, my name is George W. Bush, and I approved this torture."

I believe the people are complicit in this crime. I personally know many who celebrate this torture, hate Arabs indiscriminately, and believe the President is weak for not authorizing a more complete genocide (i.e. 'nuke 'em!'). These are our mothers, our fathers, our brothers, our children; they go to our churches, our schools, they work beside us. They are us; they are Americans. And they are, at the very core of their being, evildoers.

littleblackpropaganda,
you are wrong the American people are not evil doers - we are sheep easliy mislead though-. But littleblackproganda" this is starting to look & FEEL like the "SIXTIES" - that is a whole lot of regular citizens are waking up and saying NO to the powers that be -
so littleblackpropaganda - sweetie , go get something nourishing to eat -go for a walk - get some sleep & at least send some money to Wexler Wants Hearings .com - we will yet hold these evil doers to account

The ABC story was the president's defense argument. The headline and the tone of the story was an attempt to make it all seem sensible. It's torture, but ABC, for reasons that we'll never know for sure, is trying to positively spin it when it was already clear he had approved torture. Since Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Tenet, Ashcroft, et al were already caught. Lock 'em all up.

Sign an ACLU petition, sent to your Congresspeople, for an independent prosecutor. C&L URL directs you to ACLU site: http://www.crooksandliars.com/

Beat me too it.

"Where’s the outrage over Bush’s knowledge and approval of torture? Please join C&L and the ACLU: Time to write…"

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/04/13/wheres-the-media-outrage-over-bushs-knowledge-and-approval-of-torture-time-to-write/#comments

user-pic

The whole "signed off on torture" narrative/meme really chaps my ass. They did not "sign off," they ORDERED.

Think of it as "room service," but not the good kind.

BDL

here here.

Well of course he tortures people to get his intelligence. A torture victim almost by definition can't give you the kind of intelligence that you don't want to hear. And this guy is so stupid he believes the people he tortures in his dungeons.

user-pic
The department issued another still-secret memo in October 2001 that, in part, sought to outline novel ways the military could be used domestically to defend the country in the face of an impending attack. The Justice Department so far has refused to release it, citing attorney-client privilege, and Attorney General Michael Mukasey declined to describe it Thursday at a Senate panel where Democrats characterized it as a "torture memo."
Emphasis mine.

Maybe we should get Conyers to write a sternly worded letter to find out under what ' rule of law' we are governed?

Bush has admitted to torturing captives,transporting innocents to others to torture,spying on Americans even prior to 9/11.He is guilty of criminal acts,war crimes,environmental destruction,criminal neglect and indifference in his duties as president and an all around failure.Bill Clinton was impeached for a sexual impropriety. Impeachment is off the table for Bush.What is wrong with this picture,Nancy?

Leave a comment

Advertisement
Please disable your adblocker!
Ads are how we pay the bills!

Subscribe
Tip Line

Josh
Marshall

Bio

Zachary
Roth

Bio

Advertise Liberally
Share
Close Social Web Email

"To" Email Address

Your Name

Your Email Address