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Today's Must Read
Thanks to ABC News and the AP's follow-up yesterday, we now have a very good idea of how the U.S. began to torture detainees in early 2002, even before the Justice Department had officially blessed the techniques by way of the infamous August, 2002 memo by John Yoo.
ABC reported earlier this week that certain brutal interrogation techniques were approved by the National Security Council's Principals Committee following Abu Zubaydah's capture in March, 2002. Among the members of that council were Vice President Dick Cheney, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell, CIA Director George Tenet, Attorney General John Ashcroft, and it was chaired by Condoleezza Rice, then the National Security Advisor.
The question was what CIA interrogators could do to Zubaydah and by extension other high value detainees. (It's worth recalling what FBI agents say about what information Zubaydah ultimately provided.) The obvious background to all this is that the CIA interrogators did not want to later find themselves prosecuted for using torture. So everything got this high-level sign off, down to the smallest detail, according to the AP:
At times, CIA officers would demonstrate some of the tactics, or at least detail how they worked, to make sure the small group of "principals" fully understood what the al-Qaida detainees would undergo.
At the same time, John Yoo and colleagues at the Justice Department were busy working on a clear legal authorization for all of this.
He described the pressure of the situation last week to Esquire:
Yoo: The interrogation question came up, I think, in March, when Abu Zubaydah was captured. That’s what provoked that question....Esquire: You weren’t under extraordinary time pressure?
Yoo: We were under time pressure.
Esquire: Days, weeks?
Yoo: The final version we didn’t get done till August. But we would show drafts before.
Esquire: They were taking action?
Yoo: They needed to have a sense before it was finalized what the basic outlines are.
Esquire: How long did it take to give an answer, go ahead do it?
Yoo: I don’t remember.
Esquire: Weeks, months?
Yoo: Probably weeks.
Esquire: So that’s a fair amount of time pressure, Zubaydah’s in custody.
Yoo: If you had the luxury of time, you’d spend years on this, without a doubt.
Esquire: What concerns came up, back and forth with the White House?
Yoo: There wasn’t a lot of back and forth -- people would say this is wrong, you need to delete this. I think that there was no pressure from any other agency from within the department that the opinion was going too far -- or that it wasn’t going far enough. It was very much hands off. That doesn’t surprise me considering how sensitive the issue was, people wanted the office I think to take the full responsibility.
The memo that emerged, the so-called Bybee memo, after the then-chief of the Office of Legal Counsel who signed off on it (even though Yoo, the deputy, actually authored it ), was just what the doctor ordered, the "Golden Shield," as it was called, for the CIA's interrogations. The Office of Legal Counsel, remember, has the power to effectively issue "advance pardons" for activity of dubious legality.
ABC quotes a source as saying that Ashcroft at one point asked aloud after one Principals meeting, "Why are we talking about this in the White House? History will not judge this kindly." Nevertheless, Ashcroft did sign off on Yoo's "Golden Shield," a memo that was later withdrawn by Jack Goldsmith after he took over at OLC. Goldsmith has called that memo "slapdash" and deeply flawed.
But the "Golden Shield" did not end the Principals meetings. ABC reports that the CIA was still nervous and still returned again and again for approval from the Principals Committee for the OK for certain "enhanced interrogation" techniques even after Goldsmith had withdrawn the Bybee memo:
But the CIA had captured a new al Qaeda suspect in Asia. Sources said CIA officials that summer returned to the Principals Committee for approval to continue using certain "enhanced interrogation techniques."Then-National Security Advisor Rice, sources said, was decisive. Despite growing policy concerns -- shared by Powell -- that the program was harming the image of the United States abroad, sources say she did not back down, telling the CIA: "This is your baby. Go do it."
Comments (34)
Uh oh. Smells like war crimes to me. Relying on the Yoo memo as a "get out of jail free" card wouldn't work in a war crimes trial. If I recall correctly, that didn't work at Nurenburg either.
See ya at Gitmo, Cheney!
April 11, 2008 10:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
This administration has operated with the "advance pardon" mentality since day one.
Like the detainees have been held with the "advance guilt" philosophy.
There's hell to pay.
April 11, 2008 10:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yup... you've put your finger on the nub of the problem: No Habeas Corpus for detainees and a pass for those who detained them.
I like your terms:
"advance guilt"
versus
"advance pardon"
It's time for war crimes trials! How can we ever hold our heads up internationally without that???
April 11, 2008 11:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
714 - From your fingers to God's eyes. Re: There's hell to pay. I am something of an agnostic but at times like these, Gawd, I hope there's a God.
April 11, 2008 10:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
"This is your baby. Go do it."
Ms. Rice, your words will go down in infamy. Every time I see a photo of your smiling face I will think of you giving the go ahead for torture. I imagine many others will do the same.
It makes me shudder to think of the Bush White House having torture meetings with the top "Principals" [aka 'Those without Principles'].
April 11, 2008 11:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
The Bush-signed memo allowing torture is now public.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/10/95033/2181/104/493151
This is one of the darkest times in American history. I'm not sure how long it will take to wash this feeling of disgust off of me, but if these guys are thrown in jail for war crimes I think it will be a good start.
April 11, 2008 11:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
"ABC reports that the CIA was still nervous and returned again and again for approval from the Principals Committee for the OK for certain "enhanced interrogation" techniques..."
Here we see a bureaucracy seeking to insulate itself from blame for acts it knows to be illegal.
And the Administration, addicted to torture, purported to authorize the crime and absolve the perpetrators at the same time.
April 11, 2008 11:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry folks, due process just ain't gonna happen in this case, I'd bet the farm on it. Nurenburg? Never Again indeed. Stonewalling, Pardons, a stacked Supreme Court, a complicit Congress, a pliable and commercially distracted public, etc etc etc. It's grim, but justice hasn't been justice in a long long time, and big big crimes are a symptom of it, certainly not a wake-up call remedy. Not sure what one can do about it, but the old checks, balances and protections to inalienable rights and justice just don't and won't apply anymore. I promise.
April 11, 2008 11:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think you understand, if there isn't an effort from within America to put these guys on trial and there isn't at least a pledge from Obama to send these guys off to The Hague, we, as a nation, are eternally fucked. The empire will be gone, and with a McCain presidency that would continue this garbage we would 100% end up in World War III. Foreign nations will have no qualms about shunning us for decades.
The repercussions are so dark and endless if they walk free that this is the point where we need to put our foot down and put an end to this.
I'm having a hard time even being coherent writing this, but there is a bad moon rising, for sure.
April 11, 2008 11:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
I most certainly do understand, I understand that pursuing the old "tried and true" solutions to old problems have gotten us and will continue to get us new and improved old problems ad infinitum. 21st century politics has evolved beyond ideas of justice and rights, *way* beyond (don't think of an elephant, get them asking the wrong questions etc) As Josh reported years ago about the NeoCon idea of "spread the chaos outward," the idea to make things so fucked and so bad in the MidEast (next comes the MidWest I'd guess) that violence suddenly appears to be the best option . . . . That's sort of what I expect in this country except against the current power structure. Having some reserve of pious respect for the antiquated tradition of legislative politics as usual is a goddamn concrete jumpsuit. I don't doubt your sincerity, I'm just saying that we're fucked, and to believe that impeachment or the hague or the UN is going to do anything about isn't just quaint, but demonstrably irresponsible. Not that I have a solution or anything. . . .
April 11, 2008 11:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
But the stench from these activities should be draped over McCain and any of the BushCons he brings into his campaign. They should be treated like lepers.
Condi's not going to look too good as a VP pick.
April 11, 2008 11:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
300 million people should line up and slap the living SHIT out of these Eichmanns.
April 11, 2008 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Josh,
Please start a MUCK RESOURCES thread for a TORTURE[d] TIMELINE similar to the U.S.A. Scandal Timeline.
I think this will enable valuable Muckraking from Paul Kiel and community user resource input from the likes of "testing" and others to be consolidated on this fundamentally unconstitutional action.
April 11, 2008 11:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Who was ABC talking to?
That person has guaranteed himself a greatly shortened lifespan. Little Georgie doesn't put up with disloyalty and the Big Dick doesn't tolerate dissent. Some one's gonna pay... Big Time.
April 11, 2008 11:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Can we begin Impeachment hearings now?
ITMFA
April 11, 2008 11:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Don't be silly, never ever. And who's "we?" You know anyone writing legislation to do so? Or writing letters to someone to write legislation to do so and who's willing to throw away any and all political clout they may have struggled for years to get and to hop into the meatgrinder that is the complicity of the GOPnoisemachine and the MSM? Calling yourself a cynic is what gets to me, that and the whole "we" thing.
April 11, 2008 11:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wexler (Fl-19)
April 11, 2008 1:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I recall a movement a few years ago to set up an at-large War Crimes Tribunal through the UN, rather than various tribunals restricted to specific events. I also recall hearing that the USA would never allow it, because it might start looking at American actions.
I guess we know why, hmm? I still think it would be a good idea.
April 11, 2008 11:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Principals.
THey are your Pals!
April 11, 2008 12:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
People are totally misunderstanding the purpose of the "Golden Shield." It wasn't to provide actual, real legal justification for anything. I think everyone knew that Yoo's memos were completely preposterous and insincere, and in a purely legal sense, not worth the paper they were written on. If we seriously applied the actual international law of war to what happened, any defense based on OLC memos and Ashcroft's certifications would disintegrate like the soiled toilet paper it all is.
No, what was really going on in all of the requests for confirmation of the "legality" of torture was to force the "principals" to sign off on everything -- to implicate them as deeply as possible. *That* was, and is, the real "golden shield." Not any legal justification for the torture, but the bare political fact that in Amerika, ever since Ford pardoned Nixon, we've decided that the Leaders will not be held accountable for serious constitutional crimes. So if Cheney, Addington, Condy, Powell, and especially Chimpy knew exactly what was going on -- well, no one will be prosecuted, because the top people won't be prosecuted.
It was just too damn bad for Lindy Englund and the other military chumps that their leaders weren't as astute as the CIA boys. In the Pentagon, they worked overtime deny and cover up senior officers' guilt, and so the grunts had to pay the price for plausible deniability. The CIA was clever enough to completely deny the political leadership that option, and to spread the guilt around as far and as high as possible. That is what constitutes the "golden shield" for everyone else.
April 11, 2008 12:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right you are, Penn, it would still be a good idea to have a U.N. Tribunal. It's likely to be about as effective as the U.S. citizenry, however.
April 11, 2008 12:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
War crimes indeed but this seems like it wont get any traction in our congress due to the fact that the Dem leadership (Pelosi,Harman & Rockefeller )were part to the crew who viewed the video of torture being performed.They were complicit.But our country & the Dem party aswell, is bigger than the Dem leadership in congress(Pelosi,Harman & Rockefeller ).If they were honorable they would indeed step down.So let's be equally critical & outraged of those in the Dem party who knew the deal but remained silent.
April 11, 2008 12:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unitary Executive Theory is fascism.
April 11, 2008 12:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
good call. and?
April 11, 2008 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Phillipe Sands, The London barrister and Professor of International Law, And a significant force in the prosecution of Pinochet, Has just published a book (out soon) on his 1 1/2 years of meticulous research into this. He says none of these people (the Bush Principals) will be able to travel abroad. every war crimes prosecutor and judge agrees.
read more in Vanity Fair May 2008.
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/05/guantanamo200805?printable=true¤tPage=all
It makes me think more about the 98,000 acres GW Bush didn't buy (as Josh said, non denial denials) in Paraguay in 2005. Might be a good hide out. like after WWII. Rev Moon has a million acres nearby and Poppy has a big spread too.It's evidently near a millitary base where we keep the mercenaries and over top of one of the most important aquifers in South America. Anyone else remember that story?
Joe Wilson said that Hillary would support criminal prosecution in the Hague. Would Obama?
April 11, 2008 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've been saying for months that all these guys are going to be on private planes on January 22, heading for UAE and Saudi Arabia. They've been building a nice compound for all of them (maybe the place a Dubai falconer complained about being developed, in PRI's The World today), with every amenity. Heck, they've got that indoor ski slope thing in Dubai.
This, of course, will be their ultimate payment for royally effing every American that isn't a player in the shadow stock market or an oil industry executive. Oh, and the Iraqis. And the Afghanis. Well, pretty much the whole world that isn't a player in the shadow stock market and the oil industry.
April 11, 2008 10:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cynical as it may be, does anyone really think DietMar is not absolutely on the mark? I woke up yesterday ashamed to be an American in a day and age when this sort of brazen lawlessness can occur. But the most damning part is the fact that it hardly causes a ripple in the day-to-day life of ordinary Americans. Aside from the political junkies like ourselves who make the time to invest following this Administration's scandals and stains on the principles of this country, does anyone really think that the American public (or, by extension, its elected representatives) cares enough about the ramifications of this manifest disregard of the Constitution and the underpinnings of our nation to actually take any of the steps suggested (war crimes, impeachment, etc.)? If so, you are a great deal more optimistic (naive?) about America in 2008 than am I.
April 11, 2008 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Optomistic -- I always try. I believe we really do have heros who will work tirelessly to set things right. Goldsmith, Joe Wilson, Charlie Brown (CA-04), Jerry McNerney (CA-11), Pete McCloskey (both the heroic former congressman and his son the war crimes prosecutor in the Hague) Vote Vets etc etc.
I do get sad thinking Hillary won't get the chance to prove her critics wrong about her. But she will keep fighting for the constitution and the America we can be proud of, even if it is not from the oval office.
I like to think Obama would also not stand in the way of an international war crimes trial.
McCain would not support such a thing, of course. and with Condi as his running mate.... ,that does get scary to think about, I'll admit, but I just don't see it. Too many Republicans have woken up to the horror of what they allowed, they want to be proud of America again too.
April 11, 2008 1:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unfortuneatley I do also think that you are overly optimisic. The whole proud to be American thing cant just be a black or white concept. Everyday of my life I have moments when i am proud to be an american and moments when im ashamed. I think to say that Republicans want to be proud to be americans too is inaccurate at best. To even consider voting for this war and/or the same party that condones tourture means that humanity or morality are involved with the decision making process when it comes to choosing the next president.
If you are still a Republican after the Bush debacle then you are not in it for America, you are in it for yourself no matter what the cost. The same applies to this scandal, I am sure that no heads roll over this one because first of all the definition of what is legal and what isnt is still grey on the books (if not totally permissable by now) and secondly people dont care about torture until its close to home. Do you really think that people care enough to pursue this all things considered. I highly doubt its worth it to most public figures to get into any of this until this election is over. Hold your breath America.
April 11, 2008 9:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Joe Wilson said that Hillary would support criminal prosecution in the Hague. Would Obama?
I'd be intrigued to hear his theory on which the International Criminal Court would have jurisdiction. It only has jurisdiction if the wrongdoers are nationals of a country that has joined the ICC treaty (the US didn't), or it took place on the territory of a country that joined the treaty (Iraq isn't one), or the situation is referred to the Court by the UN Security Council (the US has a veto). So the only way I can see this getting to the ICC is if a Democratic administration wanted a Security Council referral. But given the risk that that would make the new Administration look unpatriotic (referring American soldiers to be judged by foreigners who have their own political agendas?), I am skeptical that a war crimes prosecution would happen.
There's no doubt that authorizing torture is a war crime, but it's not clear to me how these politicians will ever be held accountable. I can't imagine that even a Democratic administration would want to refer them to the courts while the conflict is still ongoing in Iraq. And the courts would be reluctant to interfere with the conduct of a war. And it's not as though a Supreme Court more conservative and ideological than the one that decided Bush v. Gore would uphold any punishment of these clowns.
On the other hand, I doubt the conservative majority of judges on the Court would be as keen on the "unitary executive" theory as some of them currently are, if the Executive Branch was headed by a Democratic president.
My sense is that a Nuremberg-style war crimes trial can really only be imposed as it happened then -- imposed by the victors against the vanquished. I can't think of any instances in which the victors have been punished for their own war crimes. But this isn't my area, so correct me if I'm wrong ...
April 11, 2008 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have always thought along these same lines as you. I was amazed to hear Phillipe Sands interviewed last week and saying that the opinion of war crimes judges and prosecutors was pretty universally in agreement that they would be subject to arrest if they traveled and that many western governments would allow their arrest.
Lets see if the story perks up again next month when his book is published.
April 11, 2008 10:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
For whatever reason, this story seems to have no legs. I don't see it on any news websites' front pages (not even TPM right now).
Another day, another new evidence of the administration's culpability in one of several war crimes. Ho-hum... nothing to see here.
Sure, Bush & friends won't be able to travel to some places for a while, but the media will lull us all to sleep eventually. We'll forget all these pesky little details. Bush will just be a valiant but inept president in the view of most people. Only bitter loser liberals will keep harping on this.
April 11, 2008 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, I get what you're saying but danger is right. Better to fight the fascists and lose than to capitulate. Many times these things reach a tipping point. If people who know better don't get outraged and don't take action, its absolutely guaranteed that nothing will happen.
April 18, 2008 9:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
All that evil needs to prevail, is that good people are too busy to pay attention.
Willful blindness and apathy are the biggest weapons of power, undue influence or ocrruption.
Look at what has been accomplished by the Truth in the eToys saga. Over half a dozen persons have resigned from key positions at the Dept of Justice, while rogue personnel at the Dept of Justice, in an illegal effort to cover up more than $300 million in fraud and 34 acts of false affidavits, have engaged in overt acts of Obstruction of Justice, flagrantly and brazenly defying the Law in open Court docket records.
http://fraud-corruption-mnat.townhall.com/default.aspx
They, the nefarious horde, enjoy apathy. It silences the facts with the least of effort.
America needs the Truth to be seen and heard.
Please stand up and fight for your American way of life
Or
LET IT GO!
April 24, 2008 9:00 PM | Reply | Permalink