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"Bipartisan" Solution on Surveillance Unveiled
Clearly the wrangling is over regarding the surveillance compromise. A formal statement went out today that everyone agrees on this matter.
Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman John "Jay" Rockefeller (WV), Senate Intelligence Committee Vice-Chair Kit Bond (MO), House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (MD), and House Minority Whip Roy Blunt (MO) announced today that a bipartisan compromise has been agreed to that will modernize the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.
...
"This bipartisan bill balances the needs of our intelligence community with Americans' civil liberties, and provides critical new oversight and accountability requirements," said Hoyer. "It is the result of compromise, and like any compromise is not perfect, but I believe it strikes a sound balance. Furthermore, we have ensured that Congress can revisit these issues because the legislation will sunset at the end of 2012."
The Electronic Frontier Foundation has a copy of the new legislation here.
Read on for the complete text of the Congressional statement.
WASHINGTON - Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman John "Jay" Rockefeller (WV), Senate Intelligence Committee Vice-Chair Kit Bond (MO), House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (MD), and House Minority Whip Roy Blunt (MO) announced today that a bipartisan compromise has been agreed to that will modernize the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.The FISA Amendments Act, H.R. 6304, will increase the nation's security by strengthening the ability of the intelligence community to conduct lawful surveillance of terrorists, as well as protect constitutional rights by requiring warrants before the government can surveil any American.
"This bipartisan bill balances the needs of our intelligence community with Americans' civil liberties, and provides critical new oversight and accountability requirements," said Hoyer. "It is the result of compromise, and like any compromise is not perfect, but I believe it strikes a sound balance. Furthermore, we have ensured that Congress can revisit these issues because the legislation will sunset at the end of 2012."
"For months, leaders of both parties in both the House and the Senate have been working to find middle ground on FISA. Both sides have had to compromise - coming up with a legislative proposal that we individually would have written much differently," said Blunt. "Clearly, House Republicans have long believed that the Senate FISA bill was the best way forward - and do not believe that the courts should hold the ultimate decision over how and when terrorist communications are monitored overseas. During this process, we all worked from the very basic premise that we had to find a way to modernize FISA to ensure that our intelligence community has the tools it needs to continue monitoring foreign-based, terrorist communications, while maintaining the protections of individual liberties contained in the existing FISA law. I believe we have accomplished that in this bill."
"At its core this historic, bipartisan agreement to modernize FISA is about providing an essential tool in the fight against terrorism. It meets our dual obligations to make our Nation safe and restore the privacy protections and civil liberties Americans require," Rockefeller said. "After a long, hard process of give and take, this FISA bill will prevent any repeat of warrantless surveillance undertaken by the President and will hold our government accountable for its actions, past and future, through strengthened court review and congressional oversight."
"Last year Congress passed the Protect America Act, which closed a dangerous intelligence gap that allowed terrorists to use technology to stay a step ahead of terror-fighters. Since the expiration of that bill, our intelligence community has been forced to operate under a temporary system that could impede their ability to track new terrorist threats," said Bond. "Today we reached a bipartisan solution that will put the intelligence community back in business, protect American families from attack and protect our civil liberties."

Comments (123)
Jesus H. Christ. We have the sorriest bunch of democrats I have ever seen and I'm getting pretty old. Vote the bastards OUT!
June 19, 2008 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Speak in the only language they understand: Money.
http://www.actblue.com/page/fisa
$80K raised in 24 hours. Current donation total $209,868. Just keep refreshing that page and watch it happen. And then help make it happen.
This is part of something much bigger. Read on:
http://thestrangebedfellows.com/
Background: Glenn Greenwald is spearheading a left-right coalition to target and punish the beltway Dems who have rammed this through, starting with Steny Hoyer.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/06/18/fisa_campaign/index.html
The Ron Paul fundraising folks are on board. The folks who raised $6 million for him in a single fundraising day. (Yes, there was advance work and prep. That's the point.) That means there's a moneybomb in the works.
So, folks, time to put our money where our mouths are.
Contribute what you can. And then call Hoyer's office and tell him you did, and why.
Like it says on the ActBlue page:
And as Digby wrote on Tuesday (quoted in a Greenwald post):
Do it.
June 19, 2008 3:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
The compromise is that the Democrats, as well as most Americans, no longer have to grasp their ankles as they bend over. It will be sufficient just to bend over.
Clearly the Democrat members of that committee need a backbone transplant, a brain transplant, a heart transplant, or all three. By the way, who gives a flying f. what "meets the needs of our intelligence community"? Government exists to meet the needs of the citizens, not a government agency.
June 19, 2008 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can Dodd Filibuster in the senate?
June 19, 2008 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Will Dodd filibuster? Highly doubtful.
Though I may weep for joy if he did so.
We've fallen on black days.
June 19, 2008 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I read Dodd has a problem with Countrywide/Mortage debacle and may be keeping a low profile
June 19, 2008 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Press Obama for a stance against immunity. I called the Obama campaign today and asked Obama to come out publicly against immunity. The person who I talked to said he’d had several calls on this and would pass it along. Call 866-675-2008 option 6 to speak to someone, although others say the line is busy.
866-675-2008 option 6
I sent a fax to his Senate office and got through an hour ago 10:30 pdst
His office Fax: 202-228-4260
Free online faxing: http://faxzero.com/
June 19, 2008 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
sigh
I called the DC offices of Obama, Lofgren, and Pelosi. I hope it does some good.
June 19, 2008 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm gonna harp on this.
They only understand one language.
And you can speak their language.
Do it. Plunk down some bucks, then call those toads back and tell them that you did so, that they are targets, that we know exactly what they are up to, and that are going to pay a price.
Further comments upthread.
June 19, 2008 3:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know what to do now.
Maybe it's time to give up, get my own black shirt and jack boots and join The Party.
The Democratic Leadership in the House & Senate want to cave in to Bush. The threat of actual, enthusiastic testimony from telecoms in exchange for reduced prosecution has been the only glimmer of hope of finding out the enormity of Little Georgie and The Big Dick's massive spying on Americans.
I guess it worked very well. They found enough to silence the Democratic Leadership. I wonder what could be so horrible that they would sell out the 4th Amendment.
I hang my head in disgust...
June 19, 2008 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
this is garbage. these dems are a bunch of cowards. let's get some names of these blue dogs and look for progressive candidates to challenge them in the next primary. no more of this!
June 19, 2008 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Go to http://www.crooksandliars.com/ and read Strange Bedfellows meet on FISA. I just joined a PAC indicated in the post to do what you and I want. http://www.actblue.com/page/fisa
June 19, 2008 2:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks Bushie. I'm doing the same, and encouraging others to do so. See my comments elsewhere in this threat. Spread the word.
As for that PAC: $90K raised in 24 hours. Current total $210,578. The pace seems to be accelerating today. Yesterday afternoon and last night they were raising about $2K an hour. Looks faster today.
June 19, 2008 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's not too late to register your views - the bill isn't law yet:
Steny Hoyer:
Phone - (202) 225-4131
Fax - (202) 225-4300
Jay Rockefeller:
(202) 224-6472
(202) 224-7665 Main Fax
June 19, 2008 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Called & faxed. Phone & fax lines are really busy, btw. This "compromise" is a disgrace. Headlines should read "BushCo Brings Dem Leadership & Citizens of USA to Their Knees."
Instead there will be *crickets*
June 19, 2008 2:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Contribute first ($5, 10, 15, 50, 100, 500, anything) and then call them, and tell them you did so and why.
Digby:
June 19, 2008 3:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
And when I say contribute first, I mean: Contribute to the exploding campaign to target and punish the toads who rammed this thing through, starting with Steny Hoyer.
Sorry if that wasn't clear (although I made it clear in other comments.)
June 19, 2008 3:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
What will Saint Obama do?!
Change We Can Believe In?
June 19, 2008 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Saint Obama is, unfortunately, missing in action. Worse, he's helping one of the worst, most egregious Blue Dogs and enablers of this surveillance abomination, and helping him against a progressive Democratic primary challenger. (Ibid.)
Oh, but don't worry. This legislation sunsets at the end of 2012, after Obama's first term.
June 19, 2008 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman John "Jay" Rockefeller (WV), Senate Intelligence Committee Vice-Chair Kit Bond (MO), House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (MD), and House Minority Whip Roy Blunt (MO)
No Speaker of the House, no Senate Majority Leader, no House Judiciary Committee chair, no Senate Judiciary Chair.
'Leadership' seems to be missing there. I see only second-rank (and second-rate?) congresscritters.
I hope that the real leaders (I'm looking at YOU, HRC and BHO, as well as Feingold and Durbin) will do whatever it takes to shortcircuit this piece o'crap.
June 19, 2008 2:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
One point that we should not forget is that Hoyer, Rockefeller, Reyes, etc. did not have to do this. Hoyer negotiated with Kit Bond and the White House in secret (denying it until the very end) and announced it when it was a fait accomplait. So it is really not a case of the Democratic leaders being reamed from behind---they were active and willing participants who went the extra mile to do this.
Even under DeLay/Hastert and the Republicans, this terrible bill could not pass. It wasn't until the Democrats toke control before the bill could finally make it this far.
As to Dodd filibustering this, I think that Reid would also go the extra mile to prevent him from succeeding.
I'm so disgusted with the Democratic "leadership". I can only hope everyone else has a good memory and send these turncoats back where they came from , even if it takes until 2010, 2014, or even 2016.
June 19, 2008 2:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
My Rep. is Ed Markey, who has been doing a good job opposing this from the beginning. I spoke to someone in his office today who told me the Congressman would be fighting this in anyway he could.
I don't know if this will help the ultimate result, but at least not everyone has sold out.
HF
June 19, 2008 2:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Folks, America is sunk. The Constitution has been shredded. Our long national nightmare has just begun. The seeds of a future fascistic state have been sown.
June 19, 2008 2:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Notice that none of the glowing reports of "bipartisan" compromise even mentions the words "telecom immunity".
Remember in The Princess Bride when that "Sicilian" character keeps saying, "Inconceivable!" till finally Andre the Giant says, "I don't think that means what you think it does."
I don't think "compromise" means what Democratic leaders think it does.
June 19, 2008 2:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, that was Mandy Patinkin (as Inigo Montoya).
June 19, 2008 10:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I stand corrected. Thanks!
June 20, 2008 1:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Rockefeller, Hoyer, and two Republicans. I'm not impressed. Write your congressfolk.
June 19, 2008 2:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Write them all you want. They don't give a shit.
They only understand one language.
Speak to them in their language.
3,661 of us have so far, to the tune (at the time of this posting) of $212,223.
More:
http://www.thestrangebedfellows.com
June 19, 2008 3:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unfuckingbelievable.
June 19, 2008 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Solazzo, um, I mean Obama is key - he must make a very clear public statement against Cheney's Gift Basket -
866-675-2008 option 6
June 19, 2008 2:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
The whole basis of a "government of laws and not of men" is that powers are assigned to the OFFICE, not to the person currently occupying it. To the extent this "compromise" aggrandizes presidential power, it does so for soon-to-be-President Obama, not just for soon-to-be-ex-President Dubya. You'd think that ought to bother Republicans, as well as Democrats.
Consider that the government needs money to fight "the global war on terror"; tax evasion deprives the government of money; tax evaders are therefore aiding and abetting "the terrorists". As Commander in Chief, President Obama will be duty-bound to protect us from the terrorists by tapping the phones of their suspected allies -- tax accountants working for rich Republicans, say. I can hardly wait :-)
-- TP
June 19, 2008 2:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think calls should be made to Dodd's office to encourage him to again make the 'last stand' to protect our constitution!
I have!
June 19, 2008 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know that I have a huge problem with this. The telecoms were facing tremendous pressure to comply in the face of a post-9/11 environment and the strongarm tactics of a highly politicized and Stalinist executive branch.
We need to find out exactly what has happened and we haven't been able to get there without the promise of immunity. We MUST find out where the true corruption lies.
June 19, 2008 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
We need to find out exactly what has happened and we haven't been able to get there without the promise of immunity. We MUST find out where the true corruption lies.
You are 180 degrees incorrect. We won't be finding out anything further about what actually went on. Indeed I am not sure why you believe that we will. Our only chance of ever finding these things out was to let the trials proceed and get that information in discovery. There is now absolutely no mechanism, none at all, that would allow us, the citizenry, to investigate this any further.
June 19, 2008 3:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
And the telecoms all pleading the 5th amendment would help in discovery how?
June 19, 2008 3:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not sure what you mean. These were civil trials, not criminal trials. Moreover, pleading the fifth in trial is a separate process from discovery of evidence relating to a trial. But whatever. The fact remains that however slim the hopes might have been of retrieving information through suing the telecoms, those hopes have gone down to zero.
June 19, 2008 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fifth amendment protections apply only to people, not to corporations, regardless of whether it's a criminal or civil trial. Corporations CANNOT refuse to testify.
However you are correct in that with immunity from prosecution, all lawsuits will be summarily dismissed and there will be NO mechanism for finding out the truth. This, of course, is what this is really all about. If fear of civil judgments were the real issue, the US government could simply absorb any civil penalties. That particular compromise was shot down by the administration. The sole purpose of retroactive immunity is to bury the truth.
June 19, 2008 4:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Robbylove,
You quite obviously are not paying attention, haven't been paying attention, and haven't a clue.
This is not a criminal prosecution of the telecoms. Pleading the Fifth does not apply. These are civil lawsuits brought by the Electronic Frontier Foundation and similar groups with the express intent of finding out where the true corruption lies. With the government pleading "national security" and "state secrets", these lawsuits are (were) our last, best hope for finding out whom the government spied on -- with the telecoms' help --, for how long, and why.
And now, that's all about to go down the toilet.
The Bushies have been pushing for immunity for precisely this reason. They know that these lawsuits would expose their criminal and unconstitutional conduct.
As for the telecoms, they helped draft FISA and other legislation that pertains to these issues. They have the most expensive lawyers in the business. They know, and knew, exactly what they were doing. At every stage. They knew exactly what was legal and what wasn't.
http://www.eff.org/files/nsa/statutes.pdf
And they knew that their opening up of their entire infrastructure to a vast government spying dragnet (one observer called it a "vacuum cleaner") was flagrantly illegal. They just didn't care, because they, the Administration, and the Democratic leadership are in bed together.
Read Greenwald:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/06/19/obama/index.html
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/06/19/telecom/index.html
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/06/17/hoyer/index.html
Lots more out there, if you bother to open your eyes, look, and read a little.
June 19, 2008 4:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
If they get this bill passed, rest assured that we will NEVER find out what happened.
June 19, 2008 3:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
let's except what you say -
this current bill only requires a federal judge see a note from the WH that it was a legal request to telco's - they don't even have to prove it's legality period
and oh btw, not a lawyer but looking at the language in the first paragraph it kinda looks like torturers and plunderers will also have the same cover "anyone" oy
To The Phones !
June 19, 2008 3:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is a travesty. We must NOT support Bush wiping his ass with the constitution by forgiving in a blanket-fashion all those that helped him squeeze this out.
Let's all put our money where our mouth is and support candidates that will not bend over for him and the thugs in charge.
Here's where: http://www.actblue.com/page/fisa
Also, KUDOS TO WEXLER!!!
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/19/1496/08210/539/538481
June 19, 2008 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Looks like Democratic Party grassroots (netroots) has their work cut out for them over the next six to eight years funding primary challenges. I called my congressperson. He'll vote against it or I'll personally come up with the maximum I can donate for his Democratic challenger come the next primary season.
It's time to dump the leadership of **both** parties.
June 19, 2008 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wexler of Florida will NOT support this 'compromise'!
June 19, 2008 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
And one question: Don't prosecutors give immunity to witnesses all the time? How is this suddenly a Constitutional crisis?
June 19, 2008 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. Immunity in and of itself is not the problem. The problem is that we don't get much in return for the immunity (contrary to the apparent insinuation of your previous note). We get evidence of a letter from the executive saying, "It's all right -- it's legal." That only has value if Congress can use it to go after the executive. Whether they can or not, they won't.
We would have gotten more information about the mechanism of illegal warrantless wiretapping if the lawsuits had been allowed to progress normally. And if the verdict had gone against them, it would have reaffirmed the illegality of the program, providing legal precedent.
Oh well. I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway.
June 19, 2008 3:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
You only grant immunity when you know what the goods are. It's a specific protection, and no prosecutor would accept it until the exact reason for it comes to light.
I would agree with you that, in isolation, this event is bad enough, but perhaps not a crisis. But when added to the demonstrable illegality of this criminal enterprise posing as a presidency, I would call it a crisis of the highest order.
And the remedy is war crimes indictments beginning Feb 2009 when pardons will help no one.
In the meantime, Steney Hoyer is a complete coward, and his constituants would be correct in concluding that he sold them out.
June 19, 2008 3:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Isn't that kind of the point? We need to find out exactly what this corrupt administration has been doing.
June 19, 2008 3:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Won't happen. Requires Mukasey's blessing, thanks Sens Schumer and Feinstein.
Inherant Contempt in Congress has teeth, but the muscles working the jaw have long since atrophied.
This mess can only be untangled in court absent the threat of pardons.
I think we need to start asking Sen Obama about this in detail, and what he intends to do about it. It will be his DoJ in charge of it.
June 19, 2008 3:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think it is worth reading the text of what the proposed legislation says. It requires a Telcom provider to show a court that they received a written request from (a) the AG or head of an Intelligence Community Element, and that (b) the request included a statement that there had been a determination of lawfullness.
This seems to a fair statement of what has long been the law -- a good faith reliance by a citizen (even a corporate citizen) on a clear statement by the government of what the law is, should be prevent that same government from prosecuting that citizen, or allowing that citizen to be sued for accepting the Government's representation. Ordinarily, we want to live in a society where people can rely on "official" government statements of the law without fear of facing a civil suit.
The problem here is really that we have a government that we do not trust to behave in good faith in issuing such a statement -- but the remedy there is to vote them out of office. The alternative is difficult to conceive -- we would all be forced to rely on statements by the Executive Branch at our peril.
Imagining counterfactual hypotheticals illustrates the point. Would we want corporations to refuse to accept EPA directives regarding pollution, and expect them to litigate each one (or face a stockholder civil suit?).
My position outlined above, I recognize, is a bit legalistic, although I don't think that diminishes its validity. But there is a non-legal political dimension to this. I fear Republicans have (deliberately) set this up to distract Democrats, particularly our left wing, from the real issue: an Executive Branch that is out of control and untrustworthy (and a new Republican candidate who may follow that mold). They are betting that faced with the prospect of bashing "big business" we will lose sight of the real problem, and, mindlessly, spend our energy decrying the Telephone Company.
Again, read the legislation, and now we should focus on the key point: the language in the legislation which says that the request to the Telcom must have been "authorized" by the President, and "determined to be lawful." This is where the civil liberties fight really should take place: who, how and why made that critical determination of lawfulness?
June 19, 2008 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks Alexander. You wrote exactly what I was thinking, though I don't have your talent to write it in elegant prose.
June 19, 2008 3:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
June 19, 2008 3:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good points you raise. Let me try to address them both, in order:
(1) Yes they have an army of great lawyers. But there are two reasons what that should not affect the analysis. First, no matter how good the lawyers are, they are not going to have access to the underlying (classified) facts that the Executive Branch is basing its findings on, so they would not be able to effectively test the view of the Executive. More important, the Telcom's lawyers are not working for me (the taxpayer) -- there interest is their client; the Department of Justice works for me (yes -- I know that seem to have forgotten that, but again, the remedy is a new President, not hoping that Corporate lawyers will take up the civil liberties mantle and make up for an Department of Justice that is not doing its job well).
2) You are right -- the TELCOMs know that FISA warrants (at least since 1977) have been the mechanism by which electronic surveillance is conducted. However, as much as I believe that FISA is the only legal mechanism for such surveillance (and yes, I am a lawyer), I also recognize that a lot of very good lawyers dont agree with me -- the question of whether there is an independent Executive Branch authority (outside FISA) is a "live" legal question. In such cases, I would prefer the principle that our elected and appointed officials make those calls (governed by the Courts) -- not corporate lawyers.
Again, the problem is that we are asking Telcom lawyers to take up the slack left by a Department of Justice that seems to have lost sight of their propert role, and abandoned many of their responsibilities.
June 19, 2008 3:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Since when did the Attorney General and others in the executive branch have the authority to circumvent a requirement to obtain a FISA warrant prior to requesting a phone tap for US-foreign calls? Aren't you arguing that if the executive branch requests that a "citizen corporation" break the law requiring warrant, that enforcement of the law is thus void?
What happened to the judicial branch and their constitutional authority in this matter?
June 19, 2008 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I also recognize that a lot of very good lawyers dont agree with me -- the question of whether there is an independent Executive Branch authority (outside FISA) is a "live" legal question.
Wait a second. The Executive has 'legitimate' power OUTSIDE that which is granted to it by the Legislative?
Please, sir, don't hit me, but what country is that?
June 19, 2008 4:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tokin,
Actually, the Executive Branch has a number of powers that flow from Article III of the Consititution, and are not based on a statutory grant of power (issuing pardons, appointing ambassad. etc.) The question at hand is whether conducting domestic electronic surveillance to gather foreign intelligence is one of those powers. The Administration argues "yes," saying that such intelligence gathering is inherent in the Commander-in-Chief and Foreign Affairs powers (which are Constitutional); others argue no, that such a power requires some statutory basis. A third argument, a bit more comlex, is "yes, but.." - yes there is the power if there is no statute, but that power can be limited by a statute. So, in application here -- if there was no statute at all, the President would have the power to engage in domestic electronic surveillance for foreign intelligence (that was the situation until FISA), but once there was a statute, his power was limited to within the bounds of that statute.
June 19, 2008 9:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sorry if a bunch of corporations need to be dragged through the courts. But they were certainly aware of the risks. Their getting bailed out by Congress amounts to rewarding bad behavior, as well as the erosion of our privacy rights, such as they are.
June 19, 2008 4:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think this misses the point completely. What we are trying to discover is not who told the telecoms it was okay or what their reasoning was. We are trying to find out what information they were collecting. The process whereby someone shows a judge a piece of paper indicating what we already know - that the White House was pushing the telecoms on this - is not going to get us there.
June 19, 2008 3:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here we have yet another example of a profoundly broken federal system, an illness that persists regardless of which party is in charge. Obama may have cut the legs out from under the entitled dem big-money donors, but the key players remain entrenched.
And that leadership will not be changing next year. Steney Hoyer is criminally neglegent as far as I am concerned. You do not grant immunity until you know what the goods are.
A mix of greed and cowardice, where one drives t'other. Obama's grass roots org is now impacting this broken federal system.
Who will prevail?
Chris Dodd, your country needs you now more than ever.
June 19, 2008 3:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ya think it's just a co-inky-dink that Dodd's alleged special treatment scandal involving Countrywide appeared on the landscape just now? I think not.
The Republicans are incredibly good at blackmail and intimidation. It's their forte. The Democrats are only good at laying back and enjoying it.
June 19, 2008 3:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cowards!
Poltroons!
These lily-livered wimpocrats have outdone even themselves this time. What's the point of even acting as though they haven't given away the store? It would be better if they simply announced what they got in return for an agreement to completely capitulate to the Republicans? How dare they! Hoyer and Rockefeller have violated their oath to protect the Constitution and the laws of the land. Anyone who votes for this piece of shit does likewise.
June 19, 2008 3:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sen Obama needs to confront this with the speed and diligence of his anti-rumor web site. Unless he steps up, nothing will change.
June 19, 2008 3:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Vote Green instead. Write your own name in on the ballot. Don't vote.
But stop enabling.
June 19, 2008 3:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not voting, or voting green, or voting for yourself, may feel good. But it is effectively voting for McCain and the Republicans.
I understand the frustration (although I am not sure I share it). But this frustration, and understandable reactions to pull out of the voting system, is exactly what the Republicans are counting on.
The reality is the Democrats, at the moment, have a razor-thin majority in the Senate, and while a good hold in the House, the White House is held by the Republicans. The math is simple -- they need to compromise, because the accurately predict that the damage of holding up the FISA train will make it more likely that instead of six more months of this situation, there will be eight more years.
Sorry to sound scolding, but we need to focus on the task at hand -- get out of the situation we are in now, where the Republicans still hold the whip hand.
June 19, 2008 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
OK. Then let's fund Democratic primary challengers who will do the bidding of their citizen constituents, instead of the bidding of the corporate charter class.
And I do note that you used the term "citizen corporation", promulgating the notion that private companies are somehow "citizens." They are not. They are chartered institutions whose charters and deeds are managed by the state. What the state gives, the state can take away.
But the state did not "give" us the Bill of Rights. Those rights are INALIENABLE. The state cannot take those away without violating the ethics and morality of what our founders stood for.
June 19, 2008 4:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maynard,
First, you raise great points -- I may disagree, but they are excellent points.
Actually, Corporations are citizens, at least in the eyes of current law, and have many of the rights of real (by which I mean human citizens).
I am not saying they should have all the rights they do have, but that is what the law is now.
I understand that these lawsuits are, as somebody else aptly described them, the "last best hope" of understanding what this Administration is up to. That may be true (at least until the Democrats take control of the Senate). But using the civil litigation process as a means of conducting oversight of the Executive Branch (oversight that the Congress should have been, but was not, conducting) is not a good idea -- it is inefficient, and fundamentally unfair.
We (by we I mean all of us as individuals, and also the organizations we form (including corporations and other legal organzations, which range from Ford and GM to the NAACP and yes, even the ACLU), should want to live in a society where you can rely upon the Executive Branch, within a system of checks and balances, to state what the law is, and then rely on it without having to litigate whether the Government was right in the first place.
To be clear -- I think, strongly, that the Government was wrong in this case; that FISA is the only avenue for electronic surveillance, and the "determination" of lawfullness was wrong. But I do not want the question to be determined in civil lawsuits between citizens. I want it determined through the political process, the oversight process, and, eventually, through judicial process involving the Government as a party.
I know this give the TELCOMS a free pass. But I am not sure I want them to act differently. I don't want corporations to pick and chose when, if, and how, they follow the directions of the Government. I don't want to rely on them to do the job that (frankly) we should have done in 2006. And I don't want the corporation (including its shareholders, which includes lots of us regular people -- if you have a pension plan, a 401k, etc., you own part of every one of these big telcoms) to pay for the poor legal judgment of our former Attorney General.
June 19, 2008 4:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is shouting (& many screaming in anger) today for Real Dem Leadership on this, not bullshit "compromise" PR releases trying to perfume this shitbowl of a telecom immunity bill.
For shame, Dems. Better listen, Dems.
June 19, 2008 3:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
CONTACT:
DODD: 202-224-2823
FEINGOLD: 202-224-5323
they must bring this to a head with a filibuster!
June 19, 2008 3:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Capitulation: the act of capitulating or surrendering to an enemy upon stipulated terms."
June 19, 2008 3:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, I called Hoyer's office and sent the following email:
Speaker Pelosi,
Like many Democrats -- I suppose "most" would be more accurate -- I have
been disappointed by Congress's lack of action in ending the disastrous and
illegal war in Iraq. Despite my disappointment, I have preserved my respect
and admiration for what you have been able to do, since I realize that this
stuff isn't easy.
However, I cannot be tolerant or understanding or sympathetic or anything
other than enraged when I read that you are coming to what is laughably
called a "compromise" on the matter of FISA renewal, and in particular the
question of providing immunity for telephone companies for their past,
probably illegal, actions. What in God's name are you thinking? There is no
reason whatsoever to do anything except insist on maintaining the law.
If you in fact cave in on this, I will consider you to be equally guilty as
the criminal Bush administration, and I will certainly not support the
Democratic party any further. This is simply disgraceful, and it is yet
another very sad day for America. You should be ashamed.
** sigh **
June 19, 2008 3:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dodd and Conrad get discount mortgages and we get the FISA shaft.
June 19, 2008 3:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well so much for "Chance you can believe in." They takes you money and gives you nothing but more corporate rule.
Obama, you lied - you lied to us. There goes the Indy vote.
Obama can't change nothing, and he isn't even going try. Screw it.
June 19, 2008 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Again, to clarify. The text of compromise is not, to be precise, a grant of immunity. It is outlining a defense, the proper assertion of which results in the dismissal of the suit.
Yes, I know this has the same practical effect, but the principle at the heart of this effort is profoundly different.
The compromise says: If a citizen (again, even a corporate citizen) relied on an official statement by the Executive Branch stating that the President had authorized the activity, and that it had been deterined to be lawful, that reliance will not be "second-guessed" by a court in a subsequent civil suit.
This is very different from a prosecutors grant of immunity in exchange for cooperation. In that case, we are saying: I will give you something of value (a get out of jail free card) in exchange for something else of value (your testimony against another criminal); that is very different from saying you wont have to defend yourself if your relied on the government when choosing your action.
I would underscore two core principle at stake here: first, that citizens should be able to rely (in most circumstances) on the Executive Branch to state what the law is; and (2) I prefer my law to be described by Government lawyers, not corporate lawyers.
A third corallary to the two principles: If you dont like the way the Executive Branch interprets the law -- vote them out
June 19, 2008 3:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
\*cough!\* Bullshit \*cough!\*
June 19, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
What Maynard said!
June 19, 2008 4:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
June 19, 2008 4:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, all three branches have a role in determining what the law is, although the Courts, in most cases, get the final say.
There is a role for the Executive Branch in determining law; and part of that law is when they tell citizens how they are interpreting that law, and citizens rely upon it.
June 19, 2008 9:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Strange Bedfellows Unite to Fight FISA Deal
Ron Paul supporters, the ACLU and liberal blogs are uniting
Contact: Liz Rose (202) 675-2312 media@dcaclu.org
For Immediate Release: June 18, 2008
DONATE: thestrangebedfellows.com
I have!
June 19, 2008 3:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I contributed too and urge others to do the same. I understand and appreciate all of the comments about compromise, and appreciate also that sitting out this election in protest would be cutting off my nose to spite my face, but isn't there a point at which we have to say there is no fundamental difference between the parties on fundamental rights - neither party believes in them.
Both parties have agreed that habeas corpus, the Fourth Amendment, and the Geneva conventions can be suspended at the will of the president. Both parties therefore agree that the president can pick any of us off the street and spirit us off to wherever to be tortured forever, with no recourse ever. Both parties agree that the president can take our communications or search our homes without warrants.
With these most basic rights gone, what do we have left that's worth voting for? Perhaps we should all stay home or depart for greener pastures abroad. Since the Constitution no longer has meaning, perhaps we should leave it to those happy to see the Constitution relegated to the trash heap of history.
June 19, 2008 9:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
They are traitors to his country and should be tried for treason.
Also it appears that they have made Pelosi into a figure head, a pretty face as she is not mentioned.
June 19, 2008 3:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Pelosi has been a leader in name only from the moment she took over. She occasionally talks tough but never follows through.
June 19, 2008 4:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just (3:53pm edt) called the Obama campaign. they said they've received "hundreds" of call today and are logging them all. I asked that HE filibuster the bill. Anyway, keep up the calls!
June 19, 2008 3:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is why I consider myself an independent, although I would never vote for a Republican. The GOP is evil and the Democrats are the sorriest excuse for an opposition party (even when they are in the majority) imaginable.
June 19, 2008 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
The democrats in the Senate are for the most part, especially the Blue Dogs, a bunch of gutless, worthless, scum.
June 19, 2008 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
It many ways John "Jay" Rockefeller (WV), House Majority Leader Steny Rockerfeller (MD) just SHOT Barak Obama in the exact say way white men shot Martin Luther King, Jr., because anyway you look at it, it was still an assassination by White-men, every bit as bloodly and calculated. Rockerfeller and Hoyer were and are not Dems really anyway, - they were and are assassins that don't want change.
I guess Obama won't make it to promise land for a lot of African Americans, at least not this year or next few years. And I'm sure that partisan people like Josh and Kos will use every partisan BS in the book - but it's game over, it's game over.
Obama CANNOT lead and that is a fact in issue, and it is indisputable at this time.
The Dem Party HAS to get rid of the Rockerfeller's and Rockerfellers and Hoyers of the Party to make any difference at all. And the only thing to do is set your sites on 2012. That's all you can do.
June 19, 2008 4:04 PM | Reply | Permalink