Jesus H. Christ. We have the sorriest bunch of democrats I have ever seen and I'm getting pretty old. Vote the bastards OUT!

Can Dodd Filibuster in the senate?

Press Obama for a stance against immunity. I called the Obama campaign today and asked Obama to come out publicly against immunity. The person who I talked to said he’d had several calls on this and would pass it along. Call 866-675-2008 option 6 to speak to someone, although others say the line is busy.

866-675-2008 option 6

I sent a fax to his Senate office and got through an hour ago 10:30 pdst

His office Fax: 202-228-4260

Free online faxing: http://faxzero.com/

I don't know what to do now.

Maybe it's time to give up, get my own black shirt and jack boots and join The Party.

The Democratic Leadership in the House & Senate want to cave in to Bush. The threat of actual, enthusiastic testimony from telecoms in exchange for reduced prosecution has been the only glimmer of hope of finding out the enormity of Little Georgie and The Big Dick's massive spying on Americans.

I guess it worked very well. They found enough to silence the Democratic Leadership. I wonder what could be so horrible that they would sell out the 4th Amendment.

I hang my head in disgust...

What will Saint Obama do?!

Change We Can Believe In?

My Rep. is Ed Markey, who has been doing a good job opposing this from the beginning. I spoke to someone in his office today who told me the Congressman would be fighting this in anyway he could.
I don't know if this will help the ultimate result, but at least not everyone has sold out.

HF

Notice that none of the glowing reports of "bipartisan" compromise even mentions the words "telecom immunity".

Remember in The Princess Bride when that "Sicilian" character keeps saying, "Inconceivable!" till finally Andre the Giant says, "I don't think that means what you think it does."

I don't think "compromise" means what Democratic leaders think it does.

Unfuckingbelievable.

Solazzo, um, I mean Obama is key - he must make a very clear public statement against Cheney's Gift Basket -

866-675-2008 option 6

I think calls should be made to Dodd's office to encourage him to again make the 'last stand' to protect our constitution!

I have!

This is a travesty. We must NOT support Bush wiping his ass with the constitution by forgiving in a blanket-fashion all those that helped him squeeze this out.

Let's all put our money where our mouth is and support candidates that will not bend over for him and the thugs in charge.

Here's where: http://www.actblue.com/page/fisa

Also, KUDOS TO WEXLER!!!
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/19/1496/08210/539/538481

Wexler of Florida will NOT support this 'compromise'!

I think it is worth reading the text of what the proposed legislation says. It requires a Telcom provider to show a court that they received a written request from (a) the AG or head of an Intelligence Community Element, and that (b) the request included a statement that there had been a determination of lawfullness.

This seems to a fair statement of what has long been the law -- a good faith reliance by a citizen (even a corporate citizen) on a clear statement by the government of what the law is, should be prevent that same government from prosecuting that citizen, or allowing that citizen to be sued for accepting the Government's representation. Ordinarily, we want to live in a society where people can rely on "official" government statements of the law without fear of facing a civil suit.

The problem here is really that we have a government that we do not trust to behave in good faith in issuing such a statement -- but the remedy there is to vote them out of office. The alternative is difficult to conceive -- we would all be forced to rely on statements by the Executive Branch at our peril.

Imagining counterfactual hypotheticals illustrates the point. Would we want corporations to refuse to accept EPA directives regarding pollution, and expect them to litigate each one (or face a stockholder civil suit?).

My position outlined above, I recognize, is a bit legalistic, although I don't think that diminishes its validity. But there is a non-legal political dimension to this. I fear Republicans have (deliberately) set this up to distract Democrats, particularly our left wing, from the real issue: an Executive Branch that is out of control and untrustworthy (and a new Republican candidate who may follow that mold). They are betting that faced with the prospect of bashing "big business" we will lose sight of the real problem, and, mindlessly, spend our energy decrying the Telephone Company.

Again, read the legislation, and now we should focus on the key point: the language in the legislation which says that the request to the Telcom must have been "authorized" by the President, and "determined to be lawful." This is where the civil liberties fight really should take place: who, how and why made that critical determination of lawfulness?

Here we have yet another example of a profoundly broken federal system, an illness that persists regardless of which party is in charge. Obama may have cut the legs out from under the entitled dem big-money donors, but the key players remain entrenched.

And that leadership will not be changing next year. Steney Hoyer is criminally neglegent as far as I am concerned. You do not grant immunity until you know what the goods are.

A mix of greed and cowardice, where one drives t'other. Obama's grass roots org is now impacting this broken federal system.

Who will prevail?

Chris Dodd, your country needs you now more than ever.

Cowards!

Poltroons!

These lily-livered wimpocrats have outdone even themselves this time. What's the point of even acting as though they haven't given away the store? It would be better if they simply announced what they got in return for an agreement to completely capitulate to the Republicans? How dare they! Hoyer and Rockefeller have violated their oath to protect the Constitution and the laws of the land. Anyone who votes for this piece of shit does likewise.

Vote Green instead. Write your own name in on the ballot. Don't vote.

But stop enabling.

"Capitulation: the act of capitulating or surrendering to an enemy upon stipulated terms."

Well, I called Hoyer's office and sent the following email:

Speaker Pelosi,

Like many Democrats -- I suppose "most" would be more accurate -- I have
been disappointed by Congress's lack of action in ending the disastrous and
illegal war in Iraq. Despite my disappointment, I have preserved my respect
and admiration for what you have been able to do, since I realize that this
stuff isn't easy.

However, I cannot be tolerant or understanding or sympathetic or anything
other than enraged when I read that you are coming to what is laughably
called a "compromise" on the matter of FISA renewal, and in particular the
question of providing immunity for telephone companies for their past,
probably illegal, actions. What in God's name are you thinking? There is no
reason whatsoever to do anything except insist on maintaining the law.

If you in fact cave in on this, I will consider you to be equally guilty as
the criminal Bush administration, and I will certainly not support the
Democratic party any further. This is simply disgraceful, and it is yet
another very sad day for America. You should be ashamed.

** sigh **

Again, to clarify. The text of compromise is not, to be precise, a grant of immunity. It is outlining a defense, the proper assertion of which results in the dismissal of the suit.

Yes, I know this has the same practical effect, but the principle at the heart of this effort is profoundly different.

The compromise says: If a citizen (again, even a corporate citizen) relied on an official statement by the Executive Branch stating that the President had authorized the activity, and that it had been deterined to be lawful, that reliance will not be "second-guessed" by a court in a subsequent civil suit.

This is very different from a prosecutors grant of immunity in exchange for cooperation. In that case, we are saying: I will give you something of value (a get out of jail free card) in exchange for something else of value (your testimony against another criminal); that is very different from saying you wont have to defend yourself if your relied on the government when choosing your action.

I would underscore two core principle at stake here: first, that citizens should be able to rely (in most circumstances) on the Executive Branch to state what the law is; and (2) I prefer my law to be described by Government lawyers, not corporate lawyers.

A third corallary to the two principles: If you dont like the way the Executive Branch interprets the law -- vote them out

Strange Bedfellows Unite to Fight FISA Deal

Ron Paul supporters, the ACLU and liberal blogs are uniting
Contact: Liz Rose (202) 675-2312 media@dcaclu.org
For Immediate Release: June 18, 2008

DONATE: thestrangebedfellows.com

I have!

I just (3:53pm edt) called the Obama campaign. they said they've received "hundreds" of call today and are logging them all. I asked that HE filibuster the bill. Anyway, keep up the calls!

This is why I consider myself an independent, although I would never vote for a Republican. The GOP is evil and the Democrats are the sorriest excuse for an opposition party (even when they are in the majority) imaginable.

It many ways John "Jay" Rockefeller (WV), House Majority Leader Steny Rockerfeller (MD) just SHOT Barak Obama in the exact say way white men shot Martin Luther King, Jr., because anyway you look at it, it was still an assassination by White-men, every bit as bloodly and calculated. Rockerfeller and Hoyer were and are not Dems really anyway, - they were and are assassins that don't want change.

I guess Obama won't make it to promise land for a lot of African Americans, at least not this year or next few years. And I'm sure that partisan people like Josh and Kos will use every partisan BS in the book - but it's game over, it's game over.

Obama CANNOT lead and that is a fact in issue, and it is indisputable at this time.

The Dem Party HAS to get rid of the Rockerfeller's and Rockerfellers and Hoyers of the Party to make any difference at all. And the only thing to do is set your sites on 2012. That's all you can do.