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Ashcroft: Sometimes I Confuse What People Tell Me With Reality

If this doesn't set the tone for former Attorney General John Ashcroft's testimony before the House Judiciary Committee on interrogation methods at Guantanamo, I don't know what does.

In his opening statement, Ashcroft admitted that he had "limited recollection" of the events pertinent to the committee's inquiry. Specifically, "it's been difficult . . . to distinguish between what I in fact recall as a matter of my own experience, and what I remember from the accounts of others."

Before these hearings commenced, I had but a limited recollection of many of the events pertinent to your inquiry. In attempting to prepare for this hearing, I have reviewed testimony from prior hearings, I've read portions of publications recounting some of the timely events, and I must admit, it's been difficult for me sometimes to distinguish between what I in fact recall as a matter of my own experience, and what I remember from the accounts of others. As a result, what I hope, what I say will be of value to the committee. Reliance on my statements and observations aught to be tempered by these awarenesses.

For smart guys, there sure seems to be an awful lot of lack of recall in the Bush administration.


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He is afraid to rat on his friends in the Mob, er, Administration.
I believe he went into consulting with a defense corp. after leaving the Admin, and too great a recollection of facts is a major liability in that line of work.

I knew he'd go all "I dont know" on this committee, but I never thought they'd have the brass ones to flat-out admit it right from the outset. He basically said "I may lie to you, I may obfuscate, and I may stonewall, but since my memory kinda really sucks, none of it is my fault"

Stunning.

Scooter Libby also claimed to have a prodigiously unreliable memory.
Of course, Ashcroft wouldn't remember that Libby tried this first.

So.....how many times has your wife or girlfriend put you on the defensive by saying you said Blah blah blah years ago and you can't honestly recall what was said even if you retain some fuzzy memory of the event.

Come on people, we are all human. That isn't to say I to see some peoples nuts fried over this but, the reality is that these people have proven that they are above the law and were free to do as they pleased. It's the way it is until it is changed.

mjeffn,

if that is what they are questioning him on, a dispute that involved warrantless wiretapping, torture, and other things that become indelible in the mind, and the President's own intervention, it isn't plausible that he would forget.
Details get forgotten, sure. But unless we are willing to concede that this man is as deficient as Alberto Gonzales in memories of core personnel and policy decisions, then Ashcroft can tell the Committee what they need to know.

I, nor he, has said anything like that but, if he is questioned on informal meeting and conversations where notes aren't usually taken then the testimony is likely to have conflicts in itself and with other's. It's unverifiable anyway. That is what he is saying.

If on the other hand he, or his notes, conflict formally with other documentented evidence then, the committee will have something real to figure out how to do nothing about.

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C'mon. Guys like Ashcroft have extensive logs and notes of whomever they meet and what they talk about. It's standard practice for high government officials. How could he run an agency if he doesn't know who he told to do what? If he can't remember it's because he doesn't *want* to remember.

Yeah, men almost never remember stuff like what they said, or who said what, or why, or if anything even happened at all.

As the saying goes,"Men never remember and women never forget."

So, why don't we have the top positions in business and government held by women, who might at least remember what happened.

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It's almost like he's explaining his strategy as a professional courtesy, like, "You do your job and I'll lie about mine. 'kay?"

In all honesty, even though it isn't convienient to our cause, what he says is plausible and believeable. His testimony will be stale and discounted anyway due to the amount of time that has elapsed since he was involved.

This fact alone is more damning of the lack of desire to discover the truth and protect the constitution on the part of Congress than of his own understandable need to make this disclaimer.

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Oh, baloney. He's an attorney and knows better. If he failed to prepare to testify, to refresh his memory, then he's deliberately trying to be unhelpful.

His point is that it was precisely that preparation that had got him all confused. All that reading and studying what other folks said got jumbled up with his own recollections.

If they don't prepare, then they aren't prepared. If they do prepare, they still can't answer your questions, because of the confusion of all those pesky facts.

As Rummy would say, "Oh, my!"

Ashcroft's point, by the way.

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Oops! You're right; sometimes I can't read. Thank you for doing it for me!

Well, then, if he can't always give us his recollection (I'm still doubtful about that), at least he must give us facts.

This is unremarkable.

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The same thing has happened to me before. I'm not really sure whether I am actually married to George Clooney or if that is just something I imagined or maybe saw on TMZ. The fact that George keeps forgetting my birthday and our anniversary might give me a clue.

I predict, given this congress, the best we are going to able to get out of all this is a limited vicarious catharsis. I'll take what I can get for whatever it's worth. Now;

FUCK THOSE FUCKING FUCKERS!!!

There.

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Assuming, which I don't, that he's not lying about his memory, maybe Ashcroft would have better recalled his time as Attorney General if he had written songs about it.

It is human nature to repress and alter humiliating and painful memories. Ashcroft always seemed to me a bit less sociopathic than many of his superiors and colleagues, and the vestiges of humanity within him may have contributed to his memory loss. He nevertheless remains a turd.

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In other news: Bush administration adopts Obama's position on diplomacy with Iran.

Whichway is your dog going to vote or, is he an independent? :)

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My terrier is a mean little leftist & she's going to vote for Obama despiter her disappointment over FISA & the whole faith-based thing. But because Obama talks to us like adults, she is not only going to vote for him -- she's helping me organize a fundraiser at my house in a couple of weeks at which all her human pals are going to be asked to write checks for at least $100 to the Obama campaign -- we're giving till mt hurts & want to encourage our friends to do the same. So if you're in or around South Colton NY I'm providing the burgers & beer -- just bring your checkbook. I hope to be able to stuff an envelope with a couple of thousand dollars by the end of the day.

how about we just RECALL this whole badministration? how about it? really, what has to happen that's "bad enough" for action?

I didn't know having amnesia was a requirement for working in the white house. Try saying this crap to a cop if you were pulled over, or in basic conversation. It's quite funny.

Same disclaimer applies only NEVER, I REALLY MEAN NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, answer an open ended question by a cop.

Unless you are doing something obvious like speeding or running red lights or driving like a moron the cop has pulled you over LOOKING for probable cause. They ask things like:

"Do you know why I pulled you over?"

Any answer other than NO can buy you a lot of trouble.

Never trust that that cop pulling you over or asking to enter your home is honest. You don't, and can't, know this.

If they don't let you go, or continue to ask questions, say:

"I WON'T ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AND WANT TO SPEAK WITH AN ATTORNEY."

Say nothing else or you will incriminate yourself one way or the other. Cops do this 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, know what they are doing and are very good at proactive policing.

dude your retarded. it's a social experiment.

"it's been difficult . . . to distinguish between what I in fact recall as a matter of my own experience, and what I remember from the accounts of others."

If I can play devil's advocate, I am nearly 20 years younger than Ashcroft and by most accounts have always possessed a better than average memory, however I have begun to notice some slippage comparable to what Ashcroft describes. Up until about age 40 it seemed like I maintained good clarity regarding memory sources of origin, since then there has been some blurring. Maybe it is as Bud Bundy said when tutoring sister Kelly, "If you pour a gallon of knowledge into a thimble for a brain, something is going to spill out."

I wonder if Ashcroft still remembers losing his Senate race to a dead man or perhaps that's just something he read somewhere.

The Alzheimer's Defense - great move!

I'm not an Ashcroft fan, but we have to remember that he was an ill man for a large portion of the time he was the AG.

He was also among a few in this administration that would try hold the line where he could.

Point 1: Alberto Gonzalez hauled Robert Muller to Ashcroft's sickbed, to convince Ashcroft to sign off on "Enhanced Interogation Tactics". Ashcroft resisted until Muller forced Gonzalez to leave.

Point 2: Ashcroft resisted the appointment of John Yoo. He had submitted a list of 5 other more qualified candidates with clean credentials.

Don't get me wrong, he's no saint, but he really might be confused as to what he does and does not remember.

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Ashcroft probably helped run out Richard Convertino (also definitely no saint!), the "Detroit Sleeper Cell" U.S. lead attorney, and outed a man under cover (according to Convertino's attorney) to do so. But yeah, I acknowledge your points.

(My source is from the radio program This American Life, Episode #356, "The Prosecutor" (which makes me curious about Petra Bartosiewicz's upcoming book, _The Best Terrorists We Could Find_).)

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I think we have the right to expect that the people serving in the highest offices in our country are the smartest, sharpest people around. I think that it is a civic responsibility that if you become unable to provide the necessary focus and retention the job requires that you should step aside.

I have great sympathy for those who've experienced debilitating illnesses. I've done so myself, and I've altered my life accordingly, turning over the responsibilities I had to others—certainly nothing to compare to being AG—to someone else or letting the appropriate people know that I couldn't fulfill a commitment. It's a tough thing to do, and it's a huge hit to ego and self-esteem.

If there were times that Ashcroft couldn't perform to the level he was when he was appointed, he should have stepped aside. I know he did so when he went into the hospital for surgery, but that may not have been enough.

I'm not going to indulge in any snark or personal comments about Ashcroft. I see this as an issue that relates to every person in elected office or who is appointed to a high post in the government. The responsibilities of those jobs is too great to allow anyone but the most competent in every way to do them at any time.

And do I need to point to any examples other than the numerous instances we've seen of people who did not have the qualifications, education, experience, or intelligence to perform the jobs they were given making terrible mistakes that affected way too many people?

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Ma'am, you have every right to have high ideals but, surely, you cannot reconcile John Ashcroft's performance as USAG with those expectations. he never even came close, except when he was in the hospital!

and, to save pixels, Dar, Johnny's voice had a wobbelato you could drive a Kenworth through. when it comes to torture i can't imagine anything more agonizing than having to listen to "Let The Eagle Soar!"

I wish I had as hard a time recalling what this administration has done as they do.

Since the Supreme Court led the coup there have been so many scandals that I have forgatten about more of them than I could possibly remember.

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Well said.

Or barked.

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Oops. Meant that in response to chumpralph at 12:20.

So former AG Ashcroft and Rep Issa are comfortable comparing hospital treatment with torture, we don't withhold food for a week, or stick our detainees with needles, we don't do that do we - wink wink

Such moral rectitude, by Ashcroft, while he's prepared to say, the rules are different after we were attacked. Does that excuse any country that is attacked say, like Iraq - are they equally excused from observing Geneva Conventions as well?

Or is it just American Exceptionalism that the Laws of Civilized Society are for every other country - but us, only when it's convenient.

Does he view his Bible's guidelines as equally flexibility since 9/11.

Let's rebuild the Constitutional Government, one indictment at a time.

It sounds, to me, that Ashcroft is trying to inoculate himself against perjury charges for inconsistent testimony.

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It's all part of the Bushies running out the clock.

It's clear after sooo many bushie's lose their memories that the KoolAide from Cheeney's office has been spiked.

It clearly has been delivered to Issa's office in Vista so many times that the trucks tire marks are making a groove in the road. He has got to be the chief hack of all time (beside all the other hack sin this conspiracy)...Losers all.

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He should've stuck with singing. He has/had a nice singing voice for gospel music.

You don't have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.

...but I do recall the lyrics to "Where the Eagles Soar." Would you like to hear my rendition? No, I'm not hear to discuss rendition...

Can you imagine Ashcroft at a meeting of the firms he is lobbying for, admit to a faulty memory of the facts? Would YOU hire a lobbyist who can't remember what you told him, or what he said to you?

So explain to us, John, how you can't remember what happened at the DOJ a couple of years ago, but you can get paid millions to lobby for mega-corporations who assume they are dealing with someone who has all his marbles?

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I know the feeling John. It really can be hard to differentiate the older one gets. But at least this means you're going to take a real shot at honest testimony, right?

Right.

I wonder if Ashcroft remembers he was supposed to be working for the American people, and his client was not George W.

What is truly amazing through all these hearings, is the lack of a deterent not to lie. While I think these hearings are important, if the Congress is not going to lock these people in their jail at the House of Rep for such flagrant lying or not even showing up, it seems pointless to even have hearings. I am tired of the letter writing and grand standing by these Democrats if it is not followed through with decisive action.

Listen, Conyers and Waxman are doing a hell of a job, and it is my fantasy to see all of these crooks in the Brig, but really, if no one has the balls to haul Rove, Myers, Ashcroft, Cheney, Addington, Feith and Mukasey into their jail for lying to Congress or obstructing justice, then let us focus getting progressives elected to both Houses of Congress so this does not happen again.

But after the capitulation on the FISA bill to protect Rockefeller, Harman, Pelosi, and all the others who knew exactly what the administration was doing and staying silent on wiretapping, I don't even have any hope a veto proof majority will help.

I find it interesting that with Regan Administration we had a President with alzheimer's and with the Bush Administration we have everyone appointed by Bush with the disease. What a crock these guys are. I can't hardly think about the last 7-1/2 years without tears coming to my eyes for what has happened to my country. And there is no guarantee that we won't get a McCain Administration where EVERYONE will by alzheimer's. I wish someone with the resources would make a list of all the McCain campaign appointments who have to be removed and the reasons for this removal. This would such a clear reflection of his flawed judgement and an indictment why he is unfit to be President.

Some prosecutors are so afraid of being prosecuted they become confused and can't recollect the crimes for which they might be prosecuted. Their failure to recollect these crimes sometimes frightens and confuses these prosecutors to point that they can’t recollect being unable to recollect. Their failure to recollect their failure to recollect sometimes further frightens and confuses these prosecutors.

Ashcroft might be one of these.

Isn't it peculiar.

Those things too important to commit to writing are also too important to commit to memory.

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Let's see, I remember another AG of note many years ago who frequently said "I can't remember." "I don't recall."
They said at the time his wife took him down; but no. It was really a congress that took it's duty to the American citizens very seriously. It was not prepared to tolerate blatant criminal activity in the White House. That congress honored it's sacred trust.
This congress has a fine venue to show off their snappy clothes and tasteful jewelery at the free "standing only" lunches provided by lobbyists.

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Lets be fair here. When the GOP was drilling Hillary Clinton about what happened in her law firm 14 years earler, they did not take anything as an excuse. She should remember individual conversations from any day in her past.

So, The same should be expected here.

I'm old enough to remember the section of Nixon's White House tape transcripts in which he explains to John Dean how to lie to a grand jury. At least they were straightforward about it (pretty good advice about how to do it, too).

[Does best Jackie Mason impression]
We expected something else maybe?

One has to question the patriotism of these republican loyalists. They put party loyalty ahead of America and they even sleep well at night. They steal, lie and won't testify under oath unless they can say they can't recall and get away with it.

If they were the real men they wouldn't be afraid to speak the truth and back it up with why the did it, but they can't and that just shows what lying snakes and criminals they really are. The Coup continues.

Hang him. Then bring up the next one and ask the question again.

This MR. Ashcroft guy, gentleman. He seems like he might smoke a little weed, right? I mean, his memory and all is really, like, lapsing. As if from weed smoking. ANd that photo is uber unflattering, what with the wrinkles. A little Botox could tighten things up. A little Botox and weed, that's what I think.

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