« previous | MUCK HOME | next »

In Contempt Vote on Karl Rove, the Ayes Have It

The House Judiciary Committee has just voted to hold Karl Rove in contempt for failing to respond to a subpoena to face questioning from the Committee on the prosecution of former Alabama Gov. Don Siegelman.

The final vote was 20 ayes and 14 nays. With Rep. Hank Johnson (D-GA) voting "absolutely, 100% aye."

In a memo on the Full Committee meeting, Chairman John Conyers (D-MI) summarized the facts surrounding Rove's refusal to even appear before the committee and assert executive privilege:

Mr. Rove has refused even to appear before the Committee and assert whatever privileges that he believes may apply to his testimony, relying on excessively broad and legally insufficient claims of "absolute immunity" - never recognized by any court - in declining to appear.

Comments (86)

Me, too, I vote "Aye," too.

... absolutely 100% aye.

This will be followed up with a vote to draft a sternly worded letter...

In which the vote to draft a sternly - Democrats caved and the matter was dropped.

... but only after issuing a statement along the lines of "this committee feels it's best to not look to the past, but move forward with the important work the American people ask of us..."

The sad part is, I can envision such a statement being made. The Dems practically beg people to give their committee hearings the finger. It would be nice to see the Dems get a "veto-proof" majority, but I still don't think it will assist in their spine development.

You forgot:

"And please, don't do it again."

Pass the 32oz bottle of K-Y Gel Please

comtempt yes but was there any discusion to have him arrested or does he continue to go about making big bucs?

Such bold action! They stood up and standed up and all that.

avatar

Great news! BUT will they actually follow through?

comtempt yes but was there any discusion to have him arrested or does he continue to go about making big bucs?
After being found in contempt, you refer your findings to the US Attorney who is compelled by law to bring the matter before a federal grand jury.

Being found in contempt of Congress is a bona fide big deal.

If the Get-Along-Gang can stop trying to be nice to the contemptible Bushies and do more than send sternly worded letters.

If it is a "big deal" then whatever became of Myers' and Bolten's contempt charges? I don't remember them being frog-marched off to a cell.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/10/749446.aspx

House Democrats have followed through on their threat to sue over its refusal to investigate Harriet Miers and Josh Bolton for contempt of Congress.

Recall that the full House recently voted to hold the pair in contempt over their refusal to comply with subpoenas for testimony and documents surrounding the firing of federal prosecutors.

The attorney general has declined to take up the case. House Dems insist that the US Attorney for DC is compelled to present evidence to a grand jury.

The House is doing its job. The problem is an executive branch that's in for a reckoning once this gets in front of a judge.

avatar

That was in March. What's the status of that lawsuit?

zack...while I agree w/ you that it should be a big deal...here are my thoughts on the HJC and Rep Conyers in particular!

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/obama1st/

Agreed. Until January when the pardon comes.

avatar

Contempt of Congress can not be pardoned by the President...

Cool. So, correct me if I'm wrong, the next step is someone bringing up to Congress, a full vote, and, if that works someone in Justice going through with it?

avatar

IF past behavior is any prediction, this will NOT be a big deal. Sorry to say. Unless the "sternly worded letter" is considered a big deal.

this is a good start but i wanna see him in handcuffs ...................

avatar

It's only a recommendation. Pelosi has to decide whether to bring it to a vote.

avatar

Agreed. Not a bad start.

It would be quite satisfying to see that pig brought to the House in cuffs.

avatar

I wonder if the House could put a bounty on Rove and hire bounty hunters?

It works for bail bondsmen.

I would pay $10,000 to see Dog the Bounty Hunter toss a squealing, zip-tied Rove head-first into that Black Suburban...

avatar

That is hilarious.

avatar

It is a big deal only if Mukasey honors the contempt charges.

Myers & Bolten got off easy because Mukasey refused to honer the contempt charges and did not arrest them.

This tells you everything you need to know.

avatar

It is a big deal only if Mukasey honors the contempt charges.

Myers & Bolten got off easy because Mukasey refused to honer the contempt charges and did not arrest them.

Exactly. And we know that's not going to happen, just as we know Pelosi's not going to bring this recommendation to a vote, just as we know that no one's goign to send the Seargant at Arms down to frog march rove into a cell.

I'll believe it when I see it.


Conyers:

'this outta cover us for another month, then we can coast to the election.'

avatar

Not a bad start.

I want to see the little Pig Boy in handcuffs, though.

avatar

Hey, does anyone know if these contempt charges can be taken up by the next AG? Do they expire or have statute of limitations?

avatar

Contempt of Congress does not have any statute of limitations. There is no "statute" per se, but a vote by the respective house of Congress which is holding the perp in contempt. I'm not sure, but as a Grand Jury contempt charge ends when the empanelled grand jury expires, it is possible (I don't know the answer off the top of my head) that the contempt charge would end at the expiration of the term of Congress which would be January 1, 2009.

avatar

Thank goodness for John Conyers! Yes, something much more swift & severe should happen to Rove & Co. but it is not helpful or even fair to blame Conyers for that. Better to push Pelosi for more action. Or hold Senate Judiciary member Feinstein accountable for confirming I-won't-prosecute-the-Bushies Makasey.

Can't believe you don't hold Rep Conyers to blame for his complicit behavior w/ the Bushies. He is so beyond the hero he was for me at one time. He is responsible for the Miers, Barlett and Rove getting away from being held accountable. Did you ever hear of inherent contempt? He is a pathetic figure of what he once was...I have no respect for such a ineffective chairman of the HJC.

WAKE UP and see just how complicit he is!

avatar

The crash from hero-worship is hell, isn't it?

I agree.

I can't find the roll call for the vote, but here are the likely suspects who put partisan politics in front of the rule of law:

Lamar S. Smith, Ranking Member, Texas
Jim Sensenbrenner, Wisconsin
Howard Coble, North Carolina
Elton Gallegly, California
Bob Goodlatte, Virginia
Steve Chabot, Ohio
Dan Lungren, California
Chris Cannon, Utah
Ric Keller, Florida
Darrell Issa, California
Mike Pence, Indiana
Randy Forbes, Virginia
Steve King, Iowa
Tom Feeney, Florida
Trent Franks, Arizona
Louie Gohmert, Texas
Jim Jordan, Ohio

Since the House Judiciary Committee is in charge of overseeing the administration of justice within the federal courts, administrative agencies and Federal law enforcement entities, it should transcend partisan politics, and these 'nay' votes themselves show contempt for the 'rule of law.' I hope somebody has the stones to ask these hacks to explain putting Partisanship above the Law on this clear-cut issue.

Sensenbrenner, for one, was part of the howling mob who impeached Clinton for his BJ fibs. How many others on the list were part of that mob?

avatar

I recall Coble, Goodlatte, Chabot and Cannon.

And, of course, soon-to-be-unemployed Morning Joe of MSNBC.

And Bob Barr.

Funny how things pan out.

A small step. Doesn't the house have to vote on it now? Then what branch of gov't will enforce the contempt citation? Certainly not the DOJ. This congress is running out of time to grow a pair.

avatar

If the House of Representatives does vote to hold Unkle Karl in Contempt of Congress then the Sergeant of Arms to the House of Representatives will go out, hog-tie and frog march him to a cell in the basement of the Capitol.

I am cautiously optimistic that this might actually happen. Holding up Unkle Karl as an heroic martyr doesn't seem to present too much of a deterent to locking him up.

Even with my cautious optimism I'm not yet convinced that it is time to invest in porcine aviation.


ITMFA

avatar

Unfortunately, DOJ is refusing to act on those referrals, whether legal or not.

There are 23 Dems and 17 Repubs on the Committee. I'd like to see the roll call. This now goes to Pelosi. Didn't she say "contempt is of the table"?

One small step for man....

I believe that was her answer to impeachment for Bush, after Kucinich started pushing for it.

avatar

I personally think they should wait until Bush is out of office b/c I'm sure we all haven't forgotten what happened to good 'ole "Scooter".

avatar

As others have already commented, it occurs to me that we've seen this song and dance routine before and it didn't really lead anywhere.

After all, Harriet Miers was held in contempt and nothing really happened to her. She's a heck of a lot less formidable of an opponant than Karl Rove is.

I predict a lot of huffing and puffing and absolutely zero genuine action.

avatar

John Phillip Sousa wrote many good marches. What one goes best for Frog Marches?

avatar

observer2. Here is the best answer to your question. The contempt charge is only in effect while this congress is in session. If nothing happens before the next congress is convened, then the next congress will have to issue a new charge of contempt of congress.

avatar

The wheels of justice may grind slowly, but for now slow is better than too fast. I don't expect the pace to pick up speed until around January 21, 2008.

avatar

Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

avatar

They will never go so far as to actually issue a strongly worded letter - oh sure, they may threaten such a letter - but trust me, these lollipops would never follow through.

I hope he ends up in prison, where he'll no doubt find his soft, fleshy resemblance to Ned Beatty a tad bit disconcerting.

We can only hope.

avatar

So when does Karl get arrested?
If he's not arrested, i don't have to eat a hat.

avatar

Remember folks... it's ALL a show...

Make the commoners believe the thieves are actually trying to help them...

"I believe, I believe, I believe..."

Too bad our government (which used to be us) couldn't just sit in while all the clowns are on their month long vacation and FIRE THEM ALL!

And then they will ask Mukasi to do something about it even though he has already refused to do anything about Harriet and what-his-face and by the time they get his refusal this time it'll be Septemeber.

If this had been inherent contempt I'd actually care. And after the new congress is sworn in they'll have to start over.

Arrest and frog-march the sorry S.O.B. into chambers. Couldn't happen to a nicer sub-human.

avatar

I've seen a couple of people make assertions that Democrats aren't starting legal proceedings against folks like Bolten, Rove, Miers, etc. because they don't want Bush to be able to issue pardons.

As for me personally, I wish I had that faith. I think they just lack the political will to actually get these people thrown in jail.

The decision by the HJC to hold Karl Rove in contempt is a recommendation to the full House, who can now vote to adopt the recommendation with a contempt resolution by a simple majority vote. Should they pass a contempt resolution, the Sergeant-at-Arms for the chamber would be ordered to arrest Karl Rove and bring him to the floor of the House to answer to the charges and to be issued punishment. The case would then be referred to the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia, who would in turn refer it to a grand jury. If convicted, Rove could face between one month and one year in jail.


Let's see if Nancy will do anything except promote her new book!


conatct the Speaker and demand a full house vote on Contempt!

What about the JAIL CELL: are they going to lock him up? This was commonly done in the 1800's but fell out of favor for some reason or another.

To "HOLD IN CONTEMPT" means, literally, to HOLD HIM while he is found to be contemptuous of the authority of Congress.

avatar

The cell is in the basement of the Capitol. I'm sure the Sergeant at Arms has been filling it with a nice bed and fluffy pillows.

But who are we kidding?

Unkle Karl will never spend one minute behind bars. He will never testify under oath. He will be pardoned of all his sins by Little Georgie.

Still... we can dream, can't we?

blah-blah-blah.... Girly-crats pretending to be leaders. Nothing will come of this; Rove's getting a good laugh out of it all.


October is right around the corner. Somebody should be able to find a good use for ol' pumpkin-head.

avatar

This is nothing, zero. Pelosi, Hoyer and Emanuel are absolutely terrified of Rove. There is no Democrat capable of taking on anyone in this administration. It's all about the will to power, people.

avatar

I expect to see a veritable hurricane of 'Sternly Worded Letters' issue from this vote.

Maybe Karl will get a paper cut; because he will almost certainly escape justice at the hands of this congress.

Well if these ne'er do wells are our reps, I vote aye.
I heard Rove absconded from country anyway.

avatar

Just thinking out loud here. Big deal, they find fat boy in contempt, now what do the Dem's do? After they caved on FISA all their dirty little secrets can be exposed through the illegal wire tapping that the other side can easily use against them.
There is no doubt in this pea brain that blackmail has been used to prevent the top from blowing off government and this case won't be any different. The powers to be are probably hoping that all of this will be swept under the rug during the August recess never to be heard of again.

Call Pelosi’s Office and your personal Representative and say, “Not just contempt . . . Rove is guilty under INHERENT CONTEMPT rules. To vote on Rove’s contempt and refer this mater to the Department of Justice would be a conspiracy to subvert justice.”

avatar

... but only after issuing a statement along the lines of "this committee feels it's best to not look to the past, but move forward with the important work the American people ask of us..."
Posted by LAFilmEditor

True. Tragically, Obama goes along with this thinking, too.

I remind you (yes, again) of the impeachment charges against Richard Nixon.

Obstruction of Justice.

Contempt of Congress.

Abuse of power.


Oh, yeah. It's in the past. And present. And future.

Karl to HJC:
So?

avatar

I know this sounds crazy, but I beleive it is better that this congress is not successful at nabbing Rove (yet). If he were to be arrested for contempt of congress, and then forced to testisfy, I beleive he would receive an all encompassing pardon.

If Obama becomes president, then congress can re-visit the contempt charges, and stick it to him.

avatar

So what! TPM-why bother publishing this information. It's not as if our Dems will do anything. They are spineless.

avatar

As others have pointed out, it's the stuff of dreams, but the image of a handcuffed Rove, perp-walked through the Senate would leave me sprawled on the floor squirming in a paroxysm of mirth.

"The Sergeant at Arms is authorized to arrest and detain any person violating Senate rules, including the President of the United States."

http://www.senate.gov/reference/office/sergeant_at_arms.htm


avatar

With regard to the flurry of pardons that we know to be coming...is it not true that they would all be void if they were issued for actions that protected the president's own criminal behavior?

I called Conyers and got past the receptionist to a Judicial Committee phone-answerer who was fairly intelligent and well-informed.

His argument is that Congress cannot simultaneously pursue both Statutory Contempt and Inherent Contempt and they've chosen the former. If they enlisted their own police force to detain Rove, Miers and Bolten, they could only do so until the end of their term, and they would not be able to pursue the case currently in district court.

In other words, they could imprison the three contemptees, who would then sit in jail Judy Miller-style until January, after which the next Congress would have to start over.

I explained to him that this would be better in terms of not being perceived as impotent wimps, but it fell on deaf ears. TPM is not a scientific poll he said. The 9% approval rating is, I countered.

The call didn't end happily, but he did make the point about the two types of contempt. Any thoughts?

TIMBA:...The first step is have the full house vote on comtempt. second, place Rove under arrest until he agrees to testify or until this term of Congress is over. establish the rule of law and continue this process until hell freezes over!

thanks for calling and sharing this information. We need to get ahold of Pelosi's office and find out her position.

avatar

Remember that the judge who reviewed the House Civil Suit refused to take action because the House didn't exhaust all of the remedies at its disposal.

The Democratic action has been unserious by design. This action too, is unserious.

It's unfortunate, but let's not mistake the Democrats for opposition.

TIMBA:...The first step is have the full house vote on comtempt. second, place Rove under arrest until he agrees to testify or until this term of Congress is over. establish the rule of law and continue this process until hell freezes over!

thanks for calling and sharing this information. We need to get ahold of Pelosi's office and find out her position.

avatar

Will someone remind me again why the House Sergeant-at-Arms isn't dispatching U.S. Capitol Police Officers to arrest Karl Rove, Harriet Myers, and Josh Bolton? Bolton (as a current administration member) is a tricky one, but Rove and Myers are private citizens now. Disobeying a congressional subpoena is AGAINST THE LAW. And Mukasey has already made clear that he will not enforce that law. This has reached Nixonian levels. With an overt scofflaw serving as Atty General, it is time for Congress to take matters into its own hands.

Oh wait, I forgot. Enforcing the law isn't "politically expedient".

avatar

But, law or no law, Attorney General Mukasey has let Congress know that he has no intention of enforcing any contempt citations against Bush Administration people. It's going to take the House instructing its Sergeant At Arms to go out and arrest his ass.

Mukasey is starting to give Ed Meese a good name!

... but no one can give Gonzo a good name.

avatar

I have this really cool dream where key members of the Bush administration spend the rest of their lives on the run, with no safe haven. In the U.S., they're subject to obstruction of justice and other charges: elsewhere, war crimes tribunals.

In a truly just world it would be the case, but without any commitment to enforcement of our most treasured laws by Democrats in Congress...I'll just have to go back to sleep and enjoy it.

avatar

I find this discussion thread interesting, yet a bit feckless and helpless.

If the USA Attorney General - the top dog in the legal system does not follow the rule of law in the your country, why would anyone else? Is it simply the threat of getting caught? Fear? Because once the AG doesn't enforce the law, is there any longer a moral framework for anyone else to follow the law either?

Most all of these comments seem they are looking for the legal way to deal with these vile people. Criminals have the advantage of not working within the law – a game that law-abiding opponents will surely lose when the laws are not enforced. Methinks someone in the USA needs to simply take that overt gun culture seriously and start vigilante justice: popping off the criminals who blatantly and unapologetically work to destroy your country and undermine the central tenets of legal and social structures.


avatar

Speaking of Harriet Meiers, isn't it just mind-boggling that this bitch who is running from the law was Bush's nominee for the SUPREME COURT??

Really puts things in perspective.

I want my government back . . .

Post a Comment

Tag Cloud

Advertise Liberally
Share
Close Social Web Email

"To" Email Address

Your Name

Your Email Address