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EXCLUSIVE: Karl Rove Issues New Denials in Gov. Siegelman Prosecution in Written Answers to HJC
Karl Rove has categorically denied any involvement whatsoever, either directly or indirectly, in the prosecution of former Alabama Gov. Don Siegelman, in written responses to questions from the ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee, entered into the Congressional record today and obtained this afternoon by TPMmuckraker.
The questions from Rep. Lamar Smith (R-TX) and the answers submitted by Rove's lawyer, Robert Luskin, are available here. More soon.
Below is a sample of the Q&A. Rove's answer is in italics, and is emblematic of his response to all 14 questions raised by Smith.
1. Before former Alabama Governor Donald E. Siegelman's initial indictment in May 2005, did you ever communicate with any Department of Justice officials, State of Alabama officials, or any individual other than Dana Jill Simpson, Esq., regarding Governor Siegelman's investigation or potential prosecution? If so, please state separately for each communication the date, time, location, and means of the communication, the official or individual with whom you communicated, and the content of the communication.I have never communicated, either directly or indirectly, with Justice Department or Alabama officials about the investigation, indictment, potential prosecution, prosecution, conviction, or sentencing of Governor Siegelman, or about any other matter related to his case, nor have I asked any other individual to communicate about these matters on my behalf. I have never attempted, either directly or indirectly, to influence these matters.
Rove has long refused to comply with a committee subpoena about his role in the Siegelman prosecution, claiming executive privilege. Instead, he's offered to respond to written questions from the Democrat-controlled committee.
So Smith sent Rove's attorney, Luskin, a sycophantic letter on July 15, requesting that he make good on his promise and answer some questions from the committee:
The Committee majority, as before, declined your offer when it was renewed on July 9th. This unnecessarily forced up on your client the Hobson's choice of obeying the limitations placed upon him by the President or obeying the demand of the majority that he appear and testify at a July 10, 2008 hearing before the Subcommittee on Commercial and Administrative Law. The forcing of this issue did not obtain information for the Committee. Rather, it simply provoked partisan spectacle and gratuitously exposed your client to potential legal jeopardy.
Luskin, graciously accepted the request, and conveyed his bafflement at the committees' prosecution in his cover letter with his client's answers:
We simply cannot understand the Committee's interest in provoking a confrontation with Mr. Rove while the precise legal issue that is presented by his subpoena is subject to a pending action in District Court. We have struggled instead to find a method by which Mr. Rove could answer the Committee's questions while at the same time respecting the prerogatives of the President. We thank you for providing such an opportunity, and we trust that Mr. Rove's answers will assist the Committee in resolving these utterly unfounded allegations.
Late Update: The majority of the Q&A refutes the affidavit of attorney Jill Simpson, not that that's anything new. As you might remember, Simpson spoke before the HJC in October of last year and testified to Rove's involvement of Siegelman's prosecution. From what I can tell, the documents spend nine pages detailing the ways in which Rove does not know Simpson.
For the record, Karl Rove has never "communicated, directly or directly with Simpson." He does not and has "never known Simpson personally." He has "never worked with her." He is "not the Karl referenced" in the email on the FEMA contract. He never told Simpson to take "compromising pictures" of Siegelman.













The legal status of these written statements? He's not under oath, but I assume obstruction of justice and lying to Congress are live options if they turn out to be false?
July 23, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. You can't lie to Congress; it's illegal and you can be prosecuted.
See the thread on Conyers not swearing in Mukasey -- same idea.
July 23, 2008 2:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
so simpson is simply wrong or making things up.
and we should believe rove over simpson because...
July 23, 2008 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I suppose that his original comments to Patrick Fitzgerald about Valerie Plame should serve as a reminder of the veracity of Karl Rove's statement. It's only true until proven false. At that moment, and no sooner, he'll admit to it.
July 23, 2008 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
My thoughts exactly.
July 23, 2008 4:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is page 3 of the documents redacted, just missing, or a problem with my browser?
July 23, 2008 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
And we should believe him, because????
July 23, 2008 2:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's a very weird line to draw to say that Executive Privilege prevents Rove from testifying live in person but not from providing written responses to questions. Legally, I don't how it could make any difference.
July 23, 2008 2:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, true, but then the whole claim of executive privilege here (and in so many other BushAdmin cases) seems to be completely off the charts, in terms of any kind of rational precedent. Since they're playing Calvin Ball anyway, it's hard to find them inconsistent. Inconsistency requires something to be consistent with.
July 24, 2008 10:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
In each any every question Rove is asked if he communicated with DOJ, State of Alabama or "any other official."
And each time Rove responds that he did not comminicate with DOJ, he did not communicate with State of Alabama and did not ask(ed) any other individual to communicate about these matters on my behalf.
Asking someone to 'communicate on his behalf' in the case versus Rove 'communicating with someone else' are two different things, so in effect Rove is not shutting the door that he may have talked to Bill Canary about Siegelman's prosecution.
He also oddly referse to Dana Simpson as just "Simpson." That is odd construction. He could in effect be denying he ever spoke to a different Simpson, maybe OJ for example.
Very slippery.
July 23, 2008 2:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Didn't he also say, he had nothing to do with Valerie Plame?
July 23, 2008 2:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
If they have evidence, then they should bust him ASAP. If not, then why are we wasting tax money on this fool? Were they hoping he'd admit to a crime or something?
July 23, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rove is most uncomfortable when he, personally, is the issue. This is a strategy on Conyers' part.
July 23, 2008 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is just a public, semi-official correspondence between Rove and Rep. Lamar Smith (R-TX), who has no interest in hurting Karl. I'm surprised Smith didn't ask Karl to comment on his love for Jesus, The Troops, and America.
July 23, 2008 9:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the heads up. We just fixed in the post, but otherwise the docs are here: http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/siegelman-rove-answers
July 23, 2008 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
It would be more interesting to see which questions Rove didn't answer or refuses to answer. Or which questions were purposely not asked.
Unfortunately, the scope of this document may be limited, yet it allows Rove to claim that he's answered every question he's been asked.
July 23, 2008 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
this is nothing more than gop softball to Rove...I find conyers still complicit with the bushies for not arresting rove and the others and here is another round of him sticking to it to conyers w/ absolutely nothing being done about it! Conyers is such a bad deal...a real tragic man and worse a dirty politician....
July 23, 2008 3:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
The fact alone that the Rove comments came addressed to a Republican legislator raised suspicions. But on something this important Rove's answers should have as standard operating procedure been accompanied with a straightforward, one-page, notarized statement and declaration about truthfulness and accuracy of his 9-pages of written answers. That is, Mr. Rove should have included the following declarative statement: "I, KARL C. ROVE, declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of Texas that the foregoing is true and correct and this Declaration was executed on this __ day of July, 2008, in Austin, Texas." Now what's so hard about that? (But I think we know the answer.) Until Rove (or anybody else in such circumstances) comes forth in person or in writing --- swearing under oath and using that special P-word to assert the truthfulness of what he is saying --- then we can assume we are just being fed lies.
July 23, 2008 3:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Indeed, no signed proof that Karl actually wrote the thing.
July 23, 2008 3:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Karl was a Democrat were issuing those denials, the Republican reply would be "When is Mr. Rove going to come clean about what he knew, said and did?"
July 23, 2008 3:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
But, say that a third party intercepted the questions, so Mr. Rove never saw them. And answered them as if were were Mr. Rove, but innocent. And returned them to the lawyer, so that he never knew
(a) that Karl Rove hadn't seen the questions, and
(b) that someone else had answered them falsely.
Mr. Rove isn't under any obligation to correct -- or even follow -- false news stories about himself, so this is where they can let the matter rest.
July 23, 2008 3:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
The questions are not intended to elicit information from Rove but to give him information on the cards The Committee is holding. It's just a heads up. But, Rove does answer questions here so where's the Executive Privilege crap? If he can answer these questions I think any decent prosecutor could peg him for not responding to the subpoena.
July 23, 2008 3:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amazing exclusive. Except that it was posted on Emptywheel earlier.
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/07/23/hjc-testimony-michael-mukasey-three/
July 23, 2008 3:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who cares? The document was entered into to the Congressional Record. What's your point? In the words of Corrado Soprano, "You want a f'in boutonniere?"
July 23, 2008 3:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
The questions are not intended to elicit information from Rove but to give him information on the cards The Committee is holding. It's just a heads up. But, Rove does answer questions here so where's the Executive Privilege crap? If he can answer these questions I think any decent prosecutor could peg him for not responding to the subpoena.
July 23, 2008 3:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
the key here in your post..."decent prosecutor"
What we have here is a chairman who is a joke and complicit to the bushies...no arrest for rove and the others who are allowed to thumb their noses and asses at the law and get away w/ it. Conyers is a dirty politician and has accomplished NOTHING! I wish I could arrest him for neglect of the constitution he is sworn to uphold!
July 23, 2008 3:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I must say its refreshing to hear anyone associated with this Administration be unequivocal about something. They're usually full of mealy-mouthed non-denials.
Of course, he's still full of sh*t.
July 23, 2008 3:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
If these answers are true, then going under oath should not be a problem. Secondly, what the hell is Lamar Smith doing? Since when is he the conduit for Karl's lies? Guess they must have wiretapped Smith too. You get a lot of people covering your ass when they have the goods on you!
July 23, 2008 3:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
As evidenced by their fax relationship, Rove and Lamar Smith (from TX) have always been close.
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Immigration_memo_intended_for_Rove_arrives_on_Demo_0919.html
July 23, 2008 3:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
We've got him in writing now.
Rove must be really gambling these guys don't have the goods on him.
Either that, or he knows Bush will pardon him---Libby-style.
July 23, 2008 3:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interesting. Still not under oath...
July 23, 2008 4:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Something smells fishy. This appears to be nothing more than Republican rehabilitation - the kind we saw over and over again at various hearings when Republican witnesses were coming under some heat and their Republican protectors on the committee jumped in to save them further embarrassment. Clearly, a ploy.
July 23, 2008 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hate to burst the bubble here, but this is absolutely brilliant strategy by Rove's lawyers. He's not on the hook for anything. Here is why:
It is true that under 18 USC 1001(a) says (in material part)
Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully—
(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact;
(2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or
(3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry;
What (a) giveth, (c)(2) taketh away:
With respect to any matter within the jurisdiction of the legislative branch, subsection (a) shall apply only to—
(1) administrative matters, including a claim for payment, a matter related to the procurement of property or services, personnel or employment practices, or support services, or a document required by law, rule, or regulation to be submitted to the Congress or any office or officer within the legislative branch; or
(2) any investigation or review, conducted pursuant to the authority of any committee, subcommittee, commission or office of the Congress, consistent with applicable rules of the House or Senate.
That's the rub. Lamar Smith is not the chairman of the judiciary committee. He has no authority to compel anyone to answer anything. Furthermore, the D.C. Circuit's construction of "jurisdiction" is a narrow one. They tossed out an indictment of a member allegedly lying to the House Clerk under 1001. United States v. Oakar, 324 U.S. App. D.C. 104 (1997). Thus, suppose Lamar sends Rove a letter, and Rove responds with a pack of lies. No jurisdiciton, no foul. He's not acting with the authority of the committee.
I freely admit that I could be wrong about this, but I wonder whether you folks have the document that went -out- to Karl and his lawyer?
July 23, 2008 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ask Scotty McClellan about Karl Rove's truthfulness and integrity.
July 23, 2008 5:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is the deal, they need to send the sergeant at arms to arrest Rove like they said they would if he doesn't show up. Well he didn't and Congress is BS with the American public over this nonsense. That's why Rove is able to blow his ass on vacation when he should've had his ass on the hot seat talking about what he knew and did. This is not about spine here this is about up holding the principle of the rule of law and if Congress cannot enforce this . Then what in God's name should the American public respect it if congress cannot set example to enforce. Then you wonder why people won't give a rats ass when the time comes and who to blame. Members of Congress should take a good look in the mirror and ask themselves why did i run for elected office.
July 23, 2008 5:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just because it's in the Congressional Record doesn't make it any more (or less) truthful.
As long as a Senator or Congressman submits it, it goes in the Congressional Record. Linday Graham and John Kyl submitted a fictitious debate back in 2006 - and it was printed. The record made it seem as though a debate happened - but it never did. Graham and Kyl never uttered a word.
a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/28/AR2006032801685.html
Same thing at work here.
July 23, 2008 6:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
wow, I hadn't read about that. Manufacturing a debate on the Senate floor that never happened and inserting it into the congressional record.
Did Graham and Kyl ever have to answer for this corruption?
July 24, 2008 3:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wonder when Bush will pardon the Rove for all crimes committed during the last 8 years. I suspect it will come sometime before noon on January 20.
July 23, 2008 6:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Karl always parses cleverly.
He must think he comes out on the better end of the Cheney/Bush morality code with this carefully parsed balderdash (so similar to the carefully parsed denials re the Plame "outing").
It's a simple morality code for simple people.
"Will I get away with it, or will I get caught?"
It would be nice if somebody would make a better show of pretending to catch them, IMHO.
July 23, 2008 7:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is this the legal equivalent of lying to Congress while not under oath (assuming that it is a lie)? The legal equivalent of lying to Congress while under oath? What would be the possible legal penalties for lying in a statement like this?
July 23, 2008 8:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm confused. How can he claim "executive privilege" when the "executive" is not involved??
(I sure hope the country can recover from this administration!)
July 24, 2008 12:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
jms,
Having to assert the obvious, in the face of absurdity, is to call the obvious into doubt- if it were not doubted, why would it need assertion?
Rove has no legal basis for his actions, but an excellent psychological one.
July 24, 2008 7:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's only confusing if you're thinking of the "Executive" in terms of some kind of Krazy Konstitutional Republic kinda thing. You know, like we used to imagine we lived in back before the astute legal minds of the movement conservatives* established that the Framers intended to replace one monarchical system with another, slightly more limited one. Once you remember that you're supposed to substitute "royal" for "executive," as in "royal privilege" it all makes sense. Rove is technically out of the government, sure, and none of these activities had anything to do with fulfilling his proper official functions in any case, but what does that have to do with anything? The operant legal fact is that he is still a courtier who enjoys the favor of the monarch, and he is claiming the noli me tangere privileges thereof.
*Abetted of course by Congress's virtually official abdication and renunciation of its power to impeach, thus rendering subpoena power and contempt rulings and the rest to purely ceremonial, ritualistic status. Fortunately all this is temporary and entirely dependent upon the Executive remaining in Republican hands. In the case of a Democratic administration, executive privilege will return to its far more limited scope and impeachment power will once again be restored to the Congress. So there's nothing to get particularly exercised about.
July 24, 2008 10:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Karl Rove looks like Mr. Wetherbee, the principal of Archie and Veronica's high school.
July 24, 2008 9:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
umm... So Unkle Karl can "discuss" these issues and provide a written set of answers. But that doesn't conflict with Executive Privilege. It's just when he has to testify under oath that he must invoke Executive Privilege.
Wow... I'm glad I understand it all now.
Executive Privilege means not having to testify under oath about illegal acts of politicizing the Department of Justice and promulgating an unjustified and unwarranted prosecution of a sitting governor of the opposing political party in order to unseat him. However, talking about said prosecution and providing written answers to questions that sort of pertain to said prosecution is okay.
Executive Privilege means never having to testify under oath?
Wow...
Why is Karl Rove not languishing in a locked cell in the basement of the Capitol???
July 24, 2008 10:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
July 24, 2008 10:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Executive Privilege means never having to testify under oath?
No. But at the risk of redundant posting, royal privilege does.
Isn't there a quote somewhere about Conservatism boiling down to the desire to return to a monarchy? The current dominant theory of government does seem to be a kind of neo-feudalism. We are not citizens, entitled to inherent rights; we are subjects, entitled only to the rights granted to us by Higher Authority. In a feudal system, the subjects exist to serve the warrior nobility rather than vice versa, providing them social privilege and material support in return for their protection. We've more or less split off the actual war makers from the class that automatically enjoys the wealth and benefits of war making, but it's not that big a split--the "military-industrial complex," after all, and lots and lots of profiteering since 9/11. Anyway, that's always a tendency in feudal societies.
And of course in this kind of system, royal favorites enjoy the aura of special protection extending from the monarch.
But like I said, once the people are deprived of their king--i.e., we elect a Democratic president--all of this will revert to somewhere to the right of status quo ante, I have no doubt. President Obama won't enjoy anything like this degree of immunity from oversight, but the needle has been permanently moved quite a bit and there are plenty of signs he doesn't want to work particularly hard to move it back (FISA cave-in, anyone?). We're still a good bit short of being a hollowed out fake republic with an elected quasi-military Dictator for Life with a full-blown police-state security apparatus at his disposal being used blatantly for domestic political purposes. But we're a hell of a lot closer than we were 8 years ago (Clinton's own moves in this direction notwithstanding). At the current rate I'm guessing we'll be there by 2020 or so.
July 24, 2008 11:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ms. Klonick,
Rove must not have thought this through. He claimed to not be able to testify due to the President invoking executive priviledge. He has now answered a bunch of questions in writing(not under oath, mind you), which negates his rationale for refusing to appear in the first place. If there were real executive priviledge he would not be able to answer at all, his first argument.
Since he has now shot himself in the foot, it is time to invoke Inherenet Contempt, and take him to jail til he testifies.
When will some brainiac Committee member put 2+2 together to come up with 4?
July 24, 2008 4:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I noticed someone mentioned Bill Canary. I was just listening to Thom Hartmann's radio show and it was mentioned that Canary is one of Rove's best friends, but more importantly, Canary's wife just happens to be the prosecuter who got Governor Siegleman convicted.
I'm sure that's just a cooincedence, and of course Rove never asked anyone to communicate for him with anyone connected to the prosecution.
They really think we are stupid!
July 25, 2008 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink