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Scientists Say Many Questions Remain In FBI Anthrax Probe

A reporter yesterday asked United States Attorney Jeffrey Taylor what evidence -- hard evidence -- the FBI had against Bruce Ivins in the 2001 anthrax attacks.

"We have a flask that's effectively the murder weapon," Taylor said.

But this is not like Colonel Mustard in the library with the candlestick.

A lot of ambiguity remains because the FBI's investigation hinges on the complexities of microbiology and genomics.

And it's not just that we don't understand those details. The FBI did not release them.

What the FBI tells us is this: the anthrax started out in a wet, almost liquid form. Then somehow Ivins -- and only Ivins -- converted that into the fine, weapons-grade powder that was sent through the mail and killed five people.

That's an exceptionally elaborate process for just one person, said Brenda Wilson, a microbiology professor at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. She did post-doctoral research on anthrax.

"I don't believe that he could do this all on his own. It does require more people than one," Wilson told TPMmuckraker.

"First you have to lyopholize it," Wilson explained. "Lyopholiziation is a drying process. But then after you dry it down, in order to make it weapons-grade, you have to do a lot of grinding and stuff -- it's like a milling process. And during the milling process you need to add substances to it, like sillica, that sort of coats the spores and makes them less sticky."

"People would notice what he was doing. People would be aware of him doing it. I know what people are doing in my lab. Even if he wanted to be sneaky about it, people would know that things were done."

"I could see if someone else made it and he took it and did something with it. That I could believe," Wilson said.

Officially, the U.S. does not have or keep any weapons-grade anthrax. President Nixon ordered the dismantling of U.S. biowarfare programs in 1969 and the destruction of all existing bioweapons, including anthrax.

Wilson pointed out the FBI talked about the flask of "wet" anthrax but there is no evidence they found any other remnants of the weapons-grade version beyond the letters sent in the mail.

"Where is the original batch? We know somewhere it had to be made and put into those envelopes," she said.

We also talked to George Weinstock, a professor of genetics and the associate director of the Genome Sequencing Center at Washington University in St. Louis.

Compared to Wilson, Weinstock comes from a different field of science, so he had a different set of questions about the Anthrax investigation.

His main question was: How exactly did the FBI link the weaponized anthrax from the letters in 2001 to the flask of "wet" anthrax in Ivins' lab?

When matching DNA, it's much easier to prove something doesn't match than proving it does, he said.

We hear a lot about DNA matching in people -- such as paternity testing. But matching spores of anthrax is different. They're not as complex, so the odds of two sets of anthrax spores sharing the same genetic code is much higher.

In court documents, the FBI said it tested roughly 1,000 samples of anthrax before concluding that Ivins' anthrax was a parent strain of the anthrax in the letters.

Based on that level of testing, what are the odds that the "forensic microbiologists" got a false match?

"This might put the chance at one in 1,000. Think about one in 1,000 if it was a paternity suit? Whether that would stand up in court, I don't know. You really need to look at a much larger sample to have accurate statistics," he said.

"We need more information about these particular spelling mistakes" in the spores' gene sequence, Weinstock said. "We just don't know that information and it wasn't presented in the affidavit."


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Instead of all this analysis (I know it's important to get the facts lined up) but let's just call this for what it is - A FRAME UP.

The Government is making this crap up to cover up their own stupidity, recklessness and probably complicity in this just so the publicity will go away..

The government folks are trying to treat this like the Sheriff in South Park - move on nothing to see here because they rather not GO TO JAIL!

Amen. You would need an IQ beneath 70 to miss this point. I'm insulted that the MIC is not trying a little harder here. Wait... I'm hearing something... is that you, American People?... hello?... say that again, I can't hear you.... TIGERWOODSOLIVEGARDENOPRAHVIAGRASUPPORTOURTROOPSTAMPAXINDIANAJONES!!

Monday, Mar. 02, 1998
Catching a 48-Hour Bug
By TAMALA M. EDWARDS

The talk of anthrax had been in the air for days as America focused on Saddam Hussein and his germ-making factories: of how quickly the bacteria could kill, how widely the havoc could spread, how easily the deadly spores could be obtained. And the nightmare seemed to materialize on American soil last week after the FBI arrested two men at a medical complex in Henderson, Nev. In their possession were eight to 10 flight bags containing what federal agents believed to be anthrax. More troubling was the fact that one of the men was Larry Wayne Harris, a self-styled microbiologist with white supremacist sympathies who, after an arrest in 1995 in connection with the possession of three vials of bubonic-plague bacteria, had been under a federal probation order forbidding his "conducting any experiments with or obtaining any infectious diseases, bacteria, or germs." The criminal complaint that cited the prohibition also noted that Harris had told an unidentified group last summer that he planned to release bubonic-plague germs at a New York City subway station. Tabloids in Manhattan promptly blared headlines like SUBWAY PLAGUE TERROR and FEDS NAB 2 IN TOXIC TERROR.

The trouble was that the other man arrested was William Leavitt Jr., an unlikely biowarfare blackguard. The father of three owns biomedical labs in Nevada and Germany, but was known mostly for his quiet ways, civic and business responsibility and devout Mormon life-style. Indeed, he appeared confused by the entire incident. Asked at his arraignment if he understood the charges being brought against him, he said, "Not exactly." Leavitt's lawyers said their client and Harris did not possess anthrax but were instead carrying anthrax vaccine and were testing a device that would neutralize bacterial toxins in the human body, exactly the kind of gadget a country on the verge of war with anthrax-oversupplied Iraq would be happy to develop. One of Leavitt's lawyers charged that the FBI's informant, from whom Harris and Leavitt would have bought the bacteria-neutralizing device, was a scam artist with two convictions for extortion. On Saturday the FBI said that the anthrax found was a nonlethal form used in animal vaccine. Possession of bacteria, even anthrax, is not illegal if criminal intent cannot be proved. Leavitt was released on Saturday.

Harris, who is under probation specifically over bacteria, may remain under scrutiny. A New York City tabloid called him a "mad scientist." And, if all this had been a movie, Harris might well have been sent by central casting. The 46-year-old has a full beard and a spastic eye. Then there is his home in Lancaster, Ohio. The first thing you notice when you enter Harris' world is the smell, the stench of numerous cats and dogs in a cramped bungalow. This is laced with the subtler scent of a basement filled with dried foods, stockpiled for the aftermath of the coming race war. Enter Harris' bedroom and you will find lab equipment and a refrigerator, from which Harris pulls a sample of a growth medium for cultivating biological weapons. Talking of biologically induced mass death, he nonchalantly remarked to CNN producer Henry Schuster, "A terrorist would need very little of this."

In the visit by CNN, Harris noted that "you could lose 200,000 plus in [a biological] attack"--something he labeled an inevitability. "That is merely prelude to what is gonna happen." Published reports last week had him traveling America inoculating people against anthrax. But he has a clear taste for celebrity and overblown rhetoric that worries even right-wing militiamen who see doomsday eye to eye with him. John Trochman warned members of his Montana Militia against Harris in a May 1997 newsletter and requested that he be expelled from a survivalist expo for "exhibiting weapons of mass destruction." "The lure for the terrorist is anonymity," says Brian Levin, director of the Center on Hate and Extremism at New Jersey's Stockton College. "It is counterintuitive to be a celebrity of right-wing warfare. I mean, if you were planning a terrorist attack, would you show up on TV?" Just before his arrest, Harris had taped three segments for a local Nevada TV talk show. When ABC recently sought Harris' opinion on anthrax, he told Diane Sawyer, "It's no big deal. Five-gallon container of anthrax spraying over Manhattan; 48 to 72 hours, you're looking at 500,000 people dead."

Harris is the author of a self-published book called Bacteriological Warfare: A Major Threat to North America, which goes into detail about the culturing of biological agents (as well as blueprints for easy-to-make weapons to take out America's power grid), all the while arguing that this knowledge is important if Americans are to protect themselves from such threats. He first made his way onto the federal radar in the 1980s. When Harris was a student at Ohio State, his association with the Aryan Nations, a violent white separatist group, prompted the Secret Service to check him out to be sure he wasn't a threat to George Bush, who was scheduled to visit the campus. When police searched his home in 1995, they found a certificate stating that Harris had risen to the rank of lieutenant in the Aryan Nations.

In 1995 Harris used the letterhead of the food lab that employed him to order $240 worth of bubonic-plague bacteria from the American Type Culture Collection based in Rockville, Md. Alerted by a suspicious ATCC employee who contacted a colleague at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, authorities searched Harris' home and found the three vials of freeze-dried plague in the glove compartment of his car and the man himself full of bizarre excuses. Harris claimed he had ordered the plague as research for his book, which he described as a safety manual inspired partly by an Iraqi woman who told him Saddam Hussein was preparing to release supergerm-carrying rats in the U.S. Harris, however, couldn't be charged with anything stronger than mail and wire fraud. In fact, what the feds wound up doing to Harris was make him a star of sorts. Congressmen used his name in offering antiterrorism bills, and journalists came looking for the odd man who got away with ordering the plague. Now, he is the man to see about anthrax.

--With reporting by Elaine Lafferty/Los Angeles

I'm certainly not prepared to trust the word of the Bush Justice Department in this matter. And I think that anyone who is willing is a goddamn fool.

There is no real explanation for why weaponized anthrax would have been saved for the Senators, is there?
A good story would I suppose be that after 9/11 he didn't have time to weaponize the anthrax- it was a rush job, and he had time later to get his act together, to attack Gov't targets.
But that doesn't fit with the depressed/paranoid nature of the man.

the problem is the ordinary american is not disposed to get into issues like this. they'd rather believe obama is a muslim.

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As a scientist who has had experience in working with lyophilizers I may have some relevant information. When I first heard that Ivins had purchased a lyophilizer and this was evidence against him I had to scoff. These devices are common in any molecular biology and microbiology laboratoris. My lab shares equipment with six other labs -- we have access to 3 lyophilizers. Nothing strange here. However, when the device he used was described as a speed vac it became clear that there was something really amiss here.

One does not use speed vacs to prepare large quantities of lyophilized material which is what must have been done to prepare the antrax spores used in the attacks. Speed vacs are used to produce micro quantities of material. Those are the amounts of material that are sufficient in producing proteins and nucleic acids of use in immunology and molecular genetic labs -- that is, the kind of research Ivins was involved in.

In order to produce significant quantities of spores one would use what is called a vacuum lyophilizer. It is a matter of scale. With a vacuum lyophilizer it would be possible to produce gram quanties of bacillus spores. But to produce the spores in this amount would also require a fermenter that could handle multiple liters of bacillus culture. This kind of fermenter has not been mentioned.

It is not impossible to produce gram quantities of spores using regular laboratory flasks and speed vacs. However, it would require many dozens, if not hundreds, of runs. If the lab had only a single speed vac, then it would have to be dedicated to this one task over a period of weeks. Others in the lab would notice, especially if they needed it for their own research needs. Also growing the cultures using standard lab flasks would have been noticed by all. Every incubator in the lab would also have to be dedicated to this one purpose over a period of many days.

I am basing this analysis on the bits of information that has been released. But before I am willing to believe that Ivins could have produced the spores in his own lab there are two questions that I would like to see answered afirmatively.

1) Did his lab have a preparative vacuum lyophizer? This means did it have the capacity to lyophilize samples in the 100s of mililiter to liter range.

2) Did this lab have a large scale fermenter? That is, could he grow multiple liters of a bacterial culture in a single run?

If the answer to these questions is no, then I would have to agree with Ivins friends who say he did not have the ability to produce those spores.

Well done! Can you describe the size and weight of these devices? Is it bigger than a breadbox?


By the way, I heard that his high school math teacher said that Bruce had always hated babies! And? He totally was a dope smoker! And? He had difficulty reconciling his reading of Schopenhauer with a vision he once had of a beautiful woman on the subway eating grapes! What kind of American is that I ask you!?!

Interesting that Ivins' wife had/has extreme views in regards to abortion. We're not getting that in the MSM. His coworkers must have had/have some sense of where he was at in regards to politics and religion and we're not hearing that, either.

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John, could you supply a reference for Diane Ivins' views on abortion? Thanks

Yeah, this "he was a crazy far-right dude" stuff is being floated by the same gang. This is a marketing blitz people! Beware the soft sell that hits your demo nicely. Translation: "he is a crazy terrorist" = let's fool just enough Republican voters. "He is a crazy Republican" = let's fool just enough Democratic voters. Next will be stories about him hating Seinfeld.

Look on page 18 of the search warrant affadavit.
It states that his wife was President of the local Right to Life group.
But it is by no means clear that Ivins held similar views.

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