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GOPers, Worried About Torture Prosecutions, Delay Holder Vote
Republicans on the Senate Judiciary committee are delaying for up to a week a vote on Eric Holder's nomination to be Attorney General, with some saying they want more time to consider his record on torture.
John Cornyn, Republican of Texas, told Politico:
Part of my concern relates to his statements at the hearing with regard to torture and what his intentions are toward our intelligence personnel who were operating in good faith based on their understanding of what the law was.
Holder declared last week at the hearing that "water-boarding is torture."
It seems plausible that Cornyn's and other GOPers' concern might relate not just to intel personnel who carried out torture, but also to high-ranking Bush administration officials who ordered or approved it.
In a statement, committee chair Pat Leahy expressed his displeasure:
I am extremely disappointed, but they have that right, and this historic - historic - nomination is held over.
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Josh
Zachary
Hmmm, it appears that neither Obama nor House / Senate majorities are enough...
Who wants to mobilize us?
BTW, Cornyn is my Senator. What a prick.
January 21, 2009 4:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
To txdem1...When you say that Cornyn is your senator that must mean that you are a)white and b) extrememly wealthy
I, too am from Texas, and he is NOT my senator. He only dances with the rich folk what brung em to the dance.
January 21, 2009 5:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good, the more the GOP move towards unabashed immoral stance like defending torture politically the more they dig their hole deeper.
Cornyn is trying to become a political figure in this vacuum....as I watch an almost unanimous vote on HRC.
more Texan miscalculation.
January 21, 2009 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
A significant portion of the GOP base would not only support the explicit legalization of torture, but would pay to watch it on cable. That's who Cornyn is after with this ploy. He doesn't care what decent people think.
January 21, 2009 4:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good comment.
January 21, 2009 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't understand Vitter's opposition to Hillary. Like Hillary, Vitter's wife gave him a pass on infidelity. Since he's violated one of the 10 Commandments he so "cherishes", how can he possibly stand for ethics at all?
January 21, 2009 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
He's hoping he'll be remembered for this, instead of for his "mistake with prostituteS." He is hoping that this will be big enough that we will all forget the pathetic look on his wife's face when he made his 'statement' about how god and his dear wife forgave him. (The same wife who said, regarding Bill & Hillary that she would do a Lorena Bobbit to her husband if it happened to her -- ya see -- even republican wives have to lie just to get through the day).
Sorry, Vitters; we'll never forget that you stand for the republican version of family values. PU!
January 21, 2009 6:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
If that is not the not calling the kettle black. Where was he at when Bush/Cheney approved this?
January 21, 2009 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Party of American Racism AND the Party of Torture. What next?
January 21, 2009 4:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is what Bush was all about. Contempt for human decency. That excites many misanthropes in the base.
January 21, 2009 5:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ain't this a bitch? Couldn't Holder and the Obama folks keep their f^%$in mouths shut for one more day?!? I know Obama tried to tamp down suspicion by announcing his "clear intention to look forward not back" and all that other "oh don't worry we're not _really_ going to prosecute you" rhetoric but _someone_ let the cat out of the bag.
If they coulda just slipped Holder through then the prosecutions could proceed apace and Obama could have said "Too bad, so sad. I lied, you _are_ going to jail"
January 21, 2009 4:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I get what you're saying, but when he was asked about his opinion on waterboarding, I was absolutely delighted to hear him say, "Waterboarding is torture."
Did you really want him to fake it? Give a republican answer? Wow! I thought to myself that it was wonderful to hear someone give an actual answer to a question!
Better to tell the truth, let Cornyn and the other abettors be shown for what they are.
I hope he eventually says, "I think waterboarding is torture, but it would be completely inappropriate for me to promise an outcome of anything for which I don't have all the facts. I am also surprised that you would ask me to do so."
If Holder goes down because he has expressed an opinion (which he won't) it would show that our government is screwed. The more publicity about this the better. The GOP looks like the criminals that they are.
The time of sneakiness -- I hope -- is over. That is not to say we shouldn't use some chess moves to get our way; but you surely don't think Holder should have said, "Well, I need to learn more about waterboarding before I can answer you."
January 21, 2009 6:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bingo!!
That would be a fantastic response. I would _love_ to see one of the good guys sit up and say "Stop asking me idioc questions!" (with apologies to idiotic of course)
January 21, 2009 6:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, where is idiotic?
January 21, 2009 9:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
The plan all along was to politicize the Holder nomination. They want the eventual confirmation vote to fall down party lines. This way should Rove ever become a target of the DOJ, he can cry about it being a partisan witch hunt.
Cornyn is just using this cause as an excuse, and he picked a pretty good one because I don't think many Americans want the rank and file underlings to be scapegoated. Of course I don't think Holder plans on going after the foot soldiers, but can't say as much because such a stance would then be used against him should he ever go after the Bush Administration decision-makers.
Holder and Obama can't do anything except let the process play out. From what I watched of Leahy during the questioning period, I wish he'd dial back the partisan rhetoric.
Also notice how Bush pardoned no one, whereas Holder recommended the pardoning of FALN and Marc Rich - it's all a play for Bush to try and save his own ass. Bush can say that his lack of pardons prove that he respected the rule of law and that the Gonzalez, Yoo and Addington decisions lead him to believe he was covered by the law.
Given the recent Obama Administration additions to the DOJ, you know Bush, Cheney and Co have to be getting worried.
January 21, 2009 4:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
It seems likely that if they try to politicize this over torture, they will fail miserably. Would have been better to stick to the Marc Rich cover story.
January 21, 2009 4:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wonder if the Israeli's put an end to the Rich pardon as the focal point. They didn't want that eventually leading back to them in such a public way.
January 21, 2009 4:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can you describe Leahy's partisanship for us, Jonze? I don't know about the rest, but I did see the hearings. Also, why do you think he should have scaled it back. Thanks.
January 21, 2009 5:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
edit: did *not* see
January 21, 2009 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Zach, you win the understatement of the year award.
January 21, 2009 4:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
As a stone narcissist (you should have seen his campaign ads this year, they made Bush look like Mother Teresa), Cornyn always has self-promotion as the number-one or -two reason he does anything. From his approach so far this session, it looks like his ambition is to become the next Norm Coleman.
January 21, 2009 5:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great! Let's run Robin Williams against him! Or Chevy Chase! Is Arte Johnson still with us?
January 21, 2009 6:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Arte Johnson, 80, is alive and well.
January 21, 2009 7:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Cornyn gets Holder to say he will not prosecute the CIA officers because they were following orders, then that gives certain cover to BushCo in the future because Bush was just operating under the legal decisions of Gonzalez and Yoo, of which all the programs used were deemed lawful.
January 21, 2009 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
The excuse of just following orders is not allowed under the torture statute, as I understand it.
January 21, 2009 5:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Holder does that, then I give up! Holder answered the "waterboarding question" definitively for a reason. No prosecutor should ever have to declare that he will not investigate something for which he does not currently have the facts!
Holder doesn't have to do this, and he better not!
January 21, 2009 6:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
First HIllary and now Holder - who does Cornyn think he is impressing? Somebody should dig up what he said at Gonzo's confirmation - I bet he didn't care about the way that he came to abuse and scapegoat underlings.
January 21, 2009 4:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know maybe I'm missing something here, "waterboarding" is "torture" isn't? It has been agreed on by most civilized countries that it is right? Mind you, whatever must be done to get a terrorist to talk I'm all for, except for say terrorism? The Republicans need time to craft their next political move, and it's all preparation for '10 Senatorial elections. Holder will be confirmed. Cornyn is just saying "hey guys let's make a deal".
January 21, 2009 4:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think this is just a case of the R's trying desperately to slow Obama's momentum before they get run over by it.
January 21, 2009 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cornyn is just saying "hey guys let's make a deal".
Maybe he's trying to scare Holder into backing off from torture prosecutions?
January 21, 2009 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jonze,
But if Holder agrees not to prosecute, when clearly a crime has been committed, one would ask why then should he be confirmed if he is unwilling to do the job that he's being nominated to do?
January 21, 2009 4:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree, but it's a game Cornyn is playing.
January 21, 2009 5:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Look out! you know opponents have a way of making problem in order to solve a problem
January 21, 2009 5:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
They aren't worried about 'intelligence officers.' They are worried about Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, Addington, Yoo, Card and Bolten. They couldn't give a sh*t less about anybody below Bush appointees.
January 21, 2009 5:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't forget Pelosi, Reed, and the other Democrats who were in on, and aware of the decisions to approve torture.
January 22, 2009 8:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
John Cornyn, Senator from Texas - could it be any more obvious? I mean he voted to confirm Gonzalez and Mulkasey for crying out loud. His BushCo. water-carrying is embarrassingly transparent.
January 21, 2009 5:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Screw them. We have the majority in the Senate and the House, we have the White House, and we have control of the machinery. If Cornyn wants to slit his own throat, let him. It's fine by me if we have 65-70 dems in the Senate in 2010 because of these Republican hyjinks. Get on board or get out of the way...
January 21, 2009 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is only one crime Holder or any other Attorney General of the United States should be active and tenacious in prosecuting according to the likes of Cornyn, Bush, Gonzo or Rove: the high crime of conspiracy to win an election by getting more votes than a Republican seeking the same office.
January 21, 2009 5:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why is it that everyone assumes it is just the GOP who is trying to cover up the torture, eavesdropping and slaughtering of cute puppies?!? As Glenn Greenwald has pointed out on numerous occasions, there are Democratic Congressional members who are just as culpable as the Republicans in these horrid practices. If anyone actually expects anything close to the truth to come out, you're not looking at the whole picture and need to demand more from the mainstream media in reporting the truth.
January 21, 2009 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why doesn't Holder just ask the Senator, and any other Repub if they are asking him to ignore those that break the law? Interesting for a guy that was a supreme court justice in Texas. Not very lawful I'd say.
I voted against him in the election, but he killed the dem running against him.
January 21, 2009 5:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Every time Texas tries to shed it's horrible image, people like Chicken Hawk John Cornyn bring them back down.
January 21, 2009 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Texas was trying to change its image? Who could tell?
January 21, 2009 6:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Cornyn had had half the "concern" about Bush's use of torture as Holder's acknowledgment that waterboarding is torture,. . . oh well. Let Cornyn and Rush and the other Republican deadenders reveal their inadequate and completely ideological ramblings for what they are: a failed coup d'etat.
January 21, 2009 5:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Holder were to agree NOT to prosecute someone based on political pressure, then I assume he would agree to prosecute someone based on political pressure. Someone should ask Cornyn if the legislative branch has the power to direct prosecutions. Someone should ask him if criminal prosecutions should be based on law and facts or political/policy views.
If Congress wants to pass a law immunizing someone from the criminal law then they should go right ahead and try. Anything else should be considered obstruction of justice.
January 21, 2009 6:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great points!
January 21, 2009 7:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent point, and we know the Republicans believe partisan politics triumphs over country and the rule of law.
January 21, 2009 7:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think it's just the far left that wants to see these guys brought to justice, I am guessing that at least 4 or 5 or 6 out of every 10 people would want to see prosecution if the prosecutor believes the alleged crime can be proven in court.
January 21, 2009 6:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sadly, the Repugs know they can push Harry Reid and many other Dems around, and this is what they'll do to show that although they're in the minority they're not helpless, and they can still flex muscle.
January 21, 2009 7:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cornyn is making his play to fill the void in GOP leadership. It's as simple as that. The way he held up Sen. Clinton yesterday to make sure his name was mentioned during the inauguration coverage, only to vote to confirm her a day later is proof positive. As is this stand against Holder, on grounds I'm not ever sure is a valid reason given the circumstances. He's grandstanding to fill the void left with Bush out of office. Not to mention he was just re-elected to another six year term, so he's untouchable for the time being.
Me thinks we'll be hearing a lot more of Cornyn in the days, months and years to come.
January 21, 2009 8:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
You got it Jonze. Cornyn is now trying to fill that void with his void by trying to be the Dr. who is diagnosing the patient (Terri Schaivo aka GOP) from the senate floor.
Little does Cornyn realize that the GOP like Schiavo has been braindead ever since Bush's first sElection. Remember when Republican congress woman, Michele Bachmann, from Minnesota, declared Schiavo to be a 'healthy' woman? Of course that defines what the fools who support those idiots are really like - braindead.
January 21, 2009 9:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
to void = to empty your bladder. Yes, he seems to be voiding....
January 21, 2009 9:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Talking about voids and voiding your bladder, Cleverbulldog has been conspicuously missing recently-has he voided himself underground out of fear that terrorists will strike him down now that Bush is not there to protect him?
Or has he dirtied himself in trepidation and is now too busy doing laundry to post?
January 21, 2009 10:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
TORTURE PROSECUTION IN AMERICA
We owe it to those innocent soles who died from torture. We owe it to humanity and the world so noone thinks he is above the law. We owe it to all 30 thousands prisoners which are hold without bail in American torture Chambers in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay to declare to the world that we do not torture!
To fully prosecute any body,including president Bush who confessed that he ordered torture, if we really want the world to know that we as Americans do not approve torture against the international laws.
Erick Holder must prosecute all those who desecrated America by torturing people in Abu Ghareib and this is the only way to prove we have Changed!He owes it to those men and children that we torture them to insanity to confess to what we wanted them to say and now have lost their sanity in Guantanamo Bay and are in Hunger strike!
We have to face the devil inside us and prosecute them so it never happens again!
January 22, 2009 1:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
I would think that the "Good Germans following orders" excuse has been laid to rest by the Nuremburg tribunal, but I suppose Cornyn hasn't heard yet.
January 22, 2009 4:20 AM | Reply | Permalink