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Frank Stumps CEO: What's The Point Of Bonuses?

A nice moment from the hearings...

Barney Frank declares, re: bonuses:

This notion that you need some special incentive to do the right thing troubles me.

Then he asks: What is it you'd do differently if you didn't get a bonus?

It's a question Frank had been previewing all week. He throws it open to any of the CEOs.

Morgan Stanley's John Mack is the only one brave enough to hazard an answer. But all he brief historical digression about how the bonus system became established at investment banks.

But Mack acknowledges:

Without question, given the risks we take today, and the size of our bonuses ... all that has to be looked at again.

Frank's conclusion:

So if there were no bonuses, we'd still get our money's worth.

Sounds about right.


19 Comments

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BRAVO, Barney!
About time, somebody FINALLY started asking the right questions!

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The silence reminded me of Ted Kennedy's famous (non-)response to the "Why do you want to be president?" question.

They knew they were going to be asked about bonuses, but it's obviously such an entitlement to them that it never occurred to them they'd have to justify the money. Maybe that's the "entitlement reform" Obama is signing up for.

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what nonsense.

arent the dems removing the limit on bonuses?

old barney still playing games for the camera....

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The question is which Dems. I doubt you'll find Rep. Frank among them.

And of course Barney is playing for the camera(although it's not a game) - how else do you expect the normal TV-watching public to become informed?

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Congress is pathetic. Bonuses are paid by the compensation committee of the board of directors. If you don't like how big the bonuses are, don't own the stock (or short it). If the companies that pay such large bonuses are reckless, then REGULATE THEM. Congress approved levering up 30-1, so the bankers were only doing what was expected within the limits of the law. Too bad for all of us that we now own these companies, but I never heard Frank screaming from the hilltops that they needed to be reined in 1,2,3 years ago. Pure grandstanding.

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I would second your comment if we taxpayers were not being asked to provide the funds to pay those bonuses, and we are being asked that. Part of capitalism is reaping the benefits of success, but an equally important part of it is suffering the consequences of failure. It is now time to allow that suffering to proceed.

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Precisely. These pigs, however, want it both ways.

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I can't get past where your post says, "being asked...." We are not being asked; we are being forced. Or even more accurately, it is going to be required that our children and their children pay, and who will make this happen? The offspring of the current crop of "conservers?"

Sheesh.

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I am surprised none of the CEOs trotted out the old story that generous bonuses, particularly bonuses paid in stock of the company, "aligns" the interest of the managers more closely with the interests of the shareholder. Without bonuses, the incentive for managers is to keep your head down and don't draw attention to yourself. With bonuses, the incentive might shift so that a manager will take the occasional well-researched risk to get a big return for the company--IF that manager is rewarded for taking on risks that pay off for the company as a whole.

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Heh. On that theory, they should have been forced to sell everything they own, give the proceeds to their companies, and become homeless after running these companies into the ground with stupid bets. That'd align their interests with the shareholders', all right. (Which might explain why they didn't try that line of BS on Congress...)

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I am tired of this bonus stuff. Those huge bonuses were paid to a few people. Mainly traders at investment banks who played in derivatives. Most people in the regular banks didn't get them. The huge payouts were made because the investment banks realized they could leverage themselves up to 30 to 1 and no regulator would blink. Deregulation is the root of all our problems. Now that the gig is up even those traders will be paid less: the leverage at Goldman and so on will have to come way down now that they are 'commercial' banks regulated by the Fed.

Those traders were doing exactly what you or I would have done: trying to make the most money they could. Within the rules. The rules may have been stupid [blame the CEO's for that], but don't go telling me that you or I would have turned down the opportunity to make that kind of money.

I have no problem with paying bonuses. It's part of the game on Wall Street. But I do have a problem with short term attitudes. Bonuses create an incentive to create wealth for the shareholders. That's a good thing here in America last time I looked. What's wrong is when the wealth turns out to be an illusion. Then there's no way to pull back the bonuses that were obviously paid out in error. So the solution is simple: tie the bonus to long term wealth creation.

Nor do I care much if we taxpayers pay these guys big bonuses to fix the mess. Who else is going to? You? Me? I just want to make sure no one benefitted illegally. And it looks like few if any did.

Meanwhile before we all throw more hissy fits over bonuses let's all ask ourselves when the last time was that we turned down a pay raise, or the opportunity to earn the maximum that the rules say we can.

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If you defend awarding bonuses for such disastrously shitty performance that the company needs taxpayer handouts to survive, you are not a capitalist at all, you are merely a lemon capitalist. The fact that the financial system should have been better regulated, while obviously true, is in no way a valid excuse. This is just highway robbery authorized by boards of directors that are captives of management.

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Question: Can any fool be a banker?

Answer: Yes. How much do you need to know to have mortgage companies shovel toxic junk through your front door,then slice,dice the junk with a few computer clicks,then pay the rating companies to label the junk "AAA", leverage each piece of AAA securities 30X and finally sell it all over the world as gold. Garbage In, Gold Out.(GIGO). Any junior high school grad can do this.

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"Ooh, spank me again, Mr. Fwank! Spank me again!"

In the end, these guys always get what they want.

And it's always us who get it in the end.

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"Ooh, spank me again, Mr. Fwank! Spank me again!"

In the end, these guys always get what they want.

And it's always us who get it in the end.

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"Ooh, spank me again, Mr. Fwank! Spank me again!"

In the end, these guys always get what they want.

And it's always us who get it in the end.

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What's the matter Cheesemoose, your finger glued to send button???

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As much as I like Barney Frank, he fu**ed up. he had a great question to ask, and he did pose it, but instad of shutting up after he posed the question, he kept talking; that made the question rhetorical and it was never answered.

The question was:

"If you didn't get a bonus what is it you would not have done?"

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While the bonuses are scandalous, that part of the monkey business is a grand distraction from the fact that these people stole our money.

When I put money in an account -- savings, money market, other investment -- I am The Lender. The guys I hand it over to, who always remember to tell me this kind of money isn't insured, are The Borrowers. They are making use of my money so they can add it to yours and everybody else's, and then, Make More Money.

Then, if all goes well, they can say "we" "made" X % on our investment. When we make less than that, or none, they shake their heads and remind us of the no guarantee part and that "everything is down right now, but that's the nature of long term investing, there's some risk."

And we breathe deeply, nod and agree. So far, so good. Except those guys forgot they are Borrowing money from the Lenders which is us, so they play fast and loose (what a Fun Job!) with their borrowed money, and suddenly they are hammering on my door at night in hysterics. Just got back from a trip to the Bahamas, saw what happened and no one could have predicted this, but - panting, now - all the investment firms are going to go bankrupt -- and lose all the money -- if measures aren't taken to save them!

And those "measures" are for this incompetent, thrill-seeking, lazy, thinks-he's-a-bigshot but now is snivelling IDIOT to demand that I hand over more money to replenish his accounts and so his firm (how firm is that?) won't go out of business because that would be most unfortunate for me. Already my money is gone and he's scaring me that if I don't give him more, I'll lose my money.

He is very stupid, and so is anyone who gives him more money. Of course, the government, being the middleman, says my kids have to give him the money later and I look at those little faces and I know it's not going to happen. These kids are never going to amount to much if I can't even take them to the rodeo or to open their first savings account because those folks burned through all my money and the kids' too.

Dumbest of course is how Congress, as middleman, isn't even bright enough to act like one and skim some off the top (say, for "pet projects" like electric cars for the US Postal Service).

Bonuses or no, salary caps or not, anyone who had a hand or even a baby finger in the unraveling of this crisis should be allowed to return to work. There are experts at rehabbing companies gone sour and they need to be called in to do the repairs. Think how cool it would be to be one of them, if they really can do it.

They do not need to be bankers and investors; it's prefereable that they not be. For a systemic problem, you have to change the system. The current crew of ruinous, greedy, irresponsible, can't-see-beyond-their-noses money boys have already (already! according to testimony) thrown money around and thrown it away (and I can't help but think of the sleeping children who will have nothing when they are adults and the bill come due and... we definitely need to pass a rule that no one can be allowed to get depressed and anxious alone, but has to call someone - a government run hotline no doubt, manned by the deeply empathic and emotionally sound offspring of... oh, dear, I have to stop this).

THEY borrowed OUR money. If I ran the circus, the very first contingency on the "bailout" money would be new management. Period. Bonus or not, they'd be out of a job. Suitable. And there might be a slim chance of repair to the system. Which I believe is rottener than they do (in all their expertise). The day there was no gold behind the paper, it went south. Now, they just print more paper and it isn't even backed up by numbers on account papers pretending to back it up. Money used to be currency. Now, it is paper.

Have you ever gone to see your money in the bank? "No, um, I can't see it, sir. Is it the pile over there, or the one... what? I can't even VISIT it?"

What the hell sort of system is this?

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