I'm not at all surprised. I had a similar experience with Bank of America after the death of my parents, and if I had not known better could have easily been tricked into paying a sizable debt I did not owe. I felt they were intentionally trying to mislead me.

B of A isn't the only one. My mom died in October of 2007. She had a house, largely paid off but for a small home improvement loan through the Wisconsin Department of Veterans Affairs (she was a vet). Now, they're foreclosing on the house-- assessed at nearly $150,000-- for a $26,000 loan that I had been paying monthly during the probate process. Now, my sister, who has schizophrenia, and I are losing our tiny inheritance. The VA will not slow this process down and we can't sell the house because the economy is collapsing. We're offering $75,000 for the place, now, hoping to unload it in a desperate attempt to stave off a sheriff's sale.

Just as I wonder with disgust at what the WI VA has and is doing to destroy my family, I read a story like this. What a total dump this country has turned into.

I think there has always been elements like this in the US. The difference is that now there is this band of losers who scream "Too bad!!!" These people will not do anything to make things better for anyone, in fact, like the trolls that visit here, they are actively trying to prevent people from making things better. What a miserable way to live. I'm glad this is getting press here and hopefully the MSM can pick it up, though I doubt it will.

This just hit me! If we go around demanding companies respect the laws now that they are taking public money, does that mean that those companies that are not taking public money can disregard the laws? Do they get special treatment for paying their own way? This was a problem BEFORE they took any public money and, in the end, if they are doing business in the US that is entirely sufficient to expect them to respect the laws.

The Bank didn't explicitly lie about what the law required, which prevents this from being a straight-up UDAP (Unfair or Deceptive Acts or Practices) violation, but the bank regulators I know would still want an incident report filed in this case. Examiners study them for patterns of customer abuse, and do cite banks for these sorts of practices. Despite the lack of explicit lying, it seems that the statements used were intended to make the caller believe there was some legal obligation. Potential UDAPs are evaluated as to their effect on "average" consumers, so a proactive regulator could make the bank sweat a little, even though Mr. Kelleher didn't take the bait. BofA's regulator is the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC), a branch of Treasury. I would encourage Mr. Kelleher to file a complaint. Such complaints do not fall on deaf ears, and help focus investigatory resources where they are needed.

These people are scum, those that work for outside collection agencies are even worse--they frequently violate the requirements of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

The same cutthroats who screw us every chance beg for the public to bail them out when they fail due to their own massive greed.

-Scientific - Credit Unions are your best bet for decent dealings, after that try your local banks. Wachovia has done well by me so far. Meanwhile Chase is pulling all kinds of inept crap with my mortgage's escrow account. Citibank are rapists too.

I didn't know we didn't have to pay my mom's BofA bill -- !@#!@$ -- she died in 2003 and we paid all $3000 of it.

I'm going to make damn sure my kids know about this.

Wow.

Last year I had a student who claimed that a bank had placed a lien on his income because of a medical debt incurred by his mother (while he was still a minor).

His solution was to go "off the books," working odd jobs to ensure that he had enough money to eat, but he ultimately had to drop out of college.

I've no idea if the story was true, nor do I know the ins-and-outs of the law on these matters - but it struck me as absolutely Dickensian.

Gee, I'm sure surprised, aren't you? That the bank would try to get their money? Is there something in the water that makes us think human nature has undergone some kind of miraculous change in the last I don't know how many years? In the past, they wouldn't wheedle you on the phone, they'd just come to where you were and take what they're owed and beat you up if necessary in the process. That's progress.
If people are going to borrow money, they need to know the rules, like Kelleher did.

I had a similar experience when my mom, a social worker who often leaned on her three credit cards to make ends meet, passed away 11 years ago. After checking with the lawyer for her estate (which consisted of a modest life insurance policy), I told the credit card companies that I knew I had no obligation to pay (I may have used more Cheneyesque language than that). I still get letters from collection agencies, which burns me up, but they can't touch my credit rating, 'cause they know I'd sue the Thain outta 'em.

Bank of America has so many offensive policies on so many levels, this comes as no surprise. They were a client of our business many years ago. We dropped them as a client because they were difficult to work with due to policies that made no sense that violated our business standards and never regretted the decision.

I was executor of my mom's estate when she passed away a year ago. I contacted one cardholder (GE Financial) with the info, and they said "not to worry about it" but refused to tell me what that meant, or to send me a letter stating that the charges had been forgiven.

Several months later I called yet again, either for a letter or to pay off the debt out of estate funds. I was transferred to a collections department that demanded I submit payment overnight. Like hell - I called you, I told them. You didn't even call me - *I* called *YOU*. I told them I'd mail payment if they sent a bill, and they insisted I overnight the payment. I told them to F off, and never did get a bill. And they never did get paid. Smart!

I ditched BOA a few years ago and now only bank with USAA and a credit union. I'm a member there. Makes all the difference.
These big name banks are goliaths of greed!
I have no use for them !

I used to work for MBNA, which was then purchased taken over by BOA.

I used to work in the collections department for their consumer loan department, which were loans for purchases (such as gateway computers, furniture from rooms-to-go, and medical procedures [breast enhancements - which were fun to collect on - usually the loan was taken out by a boyfriend and it would go into collections after they broke up]) and consolidation loans. They would be anywhere from $1500 to $25,000.

I worked there from 1999 until 2004, all in the collections department (they used to call it 'customer assistance', until their investors found out how bad these unsecured loans were, and the stock plummeted, and they changed the name to 'collections'.

During the mortgage boom, we were first encouraged via monthly incentive programs, then forced via bad monthly reviews, to send all (that's right, ALL) of our collections calls to our mortgage department, to put the unsecured debt into a home equity loan product that was secured. We were coached on how to successfully talk people into putting their homes on the line for all of their bad debt. We were rewarded for it, then when that didn't work out as well as they expected, we were forced to do it on pain of getting bad reviews. It was bad business, and that was the cause of our financial meltdown. Greed.

P.S. they also lobbied successfully for the government to change the bankruptcy laws, in order to make it harder for people to declare chapter 7 bko (bankruptcy). The company was very smug about that.

I also did some lending there, briefly, and worked with the department where they would convince callers that were sent from customer service to take direct deposits into their checking accounts to their max. It was another area where they would just bring on more and more debt (in the industry, outstandings, or the amount of $$ that has been lent out, is just as important as delinquencies; and any time we'd reach a new level of outstandings for our department (10 million, 20 million, etc) they'd through a party and give away superbowl tickets and jet skis and the like.

it was a mess, but it paid very well!

Correction to the above - Only people that owned frame-built homes were sent to the mortgage department, not all.

This article could not be more timely for me. I'm going through this right now (my mother passed away from cancer at age 55 in November). I had already paid off a chunk of her bills but that stops right now.
Thank you, and thank you to those who gave out lots of great information in the comments.

My brother died last summer, leaving no estate and debts. The credit card companies had exactly the same MO, try to first just ask me to pay the outstanding balance (in this case $25K), but did not guilt me into paying them. Fortunately, I knew the law and told them I wasn't going to pay.

The most amusing collection was with Comcast, who wanted the DVR back. Mind you, my brother paid for it several times over in renting it, but they freaked out completely when I told them that no, I was now in CA, the DVR was somewhere in an apartment, and I could not return it.

just went thru the same thing as the executrix of an estate. right now, the credit card companies are so overwhelmed they don't even bother to send lawyers to the probate hearings. in our case, i knew the man did not have the credit cards in question. i spoke to the judge directly that there were 15 men with the same name in the hospital the same day my friend died. and that if you go online there are literally thousands of men with the same name, unless the credit card company can produce an application form showing his signature, or statements showing the correct mailng address, and at least
a few copies of cancelled checks, who knows if the credit card belongs to the deceased. this
particular judge googled my friends name, took one
look at the computer screen and ruled in our favor. we didn't owe a cent.

What is the big deal here?

Banks loan money and expect to get it back. If a customer dies, they can't just say, oh well, we'll just write that off no questions asked. They need to try to cover their losses through whatever legal means they have.

Can you imagine a world in which this were not true? Why bother working or owning anything? We could just rack up debt all our lives until we die and let the banks sort it out later. This is not a sustainable policy.

BofA didn't lie to Mr. Kelleher, they appealed to his intellect and sense of right and wrong. His mother had less than $1000 of debt and apparently never missed a payment. Why not pay it off and settle the account? If I were her, I would want to know that even after my passing I had taken from this world no more than I had given.

In some cases you aren't even responsible for your spouse's credit card debts. My family went through this when my mother's husband died. He had massive cc debt in his name only, and no way would my unemployed mother be able to pay it. There was no estate, except for life insurance and the jointly owned house, and they can't touch that. We told them they could try their best to get their money from an urn full of ashes, but they weren't getting a dime from us. Most of them gave up pretty quickly, but we still get collection calls from one company. We just laugh and hang up. Feels good to give them the shaft for once. This same company at one point tried to con my mother into sending them a copy of DL and her SS#, so they could "confirm that she was not liable." We said "Yeah, right--we may be stupid, but we're not complete idiots."

KNOW YOUR RIGHTS!!!

"They need to try to cover their losses through whatever legal means they have."

It's not legal to shift a debt to someone who didn't incur it. The bank can get it from the estate, but not from the personal assets of someone else. But since you're concerned about the bank's welfare, you can pay that bill--it's a much your responsibility as it is the son's (which is to say, it is no more the son's responsibility as it is yours).

This type of trick is standard operating procedure. MBNA (now BofA) tried pulling the same move with my father when my mother died a few years ago. They sent the account to a collection agency even after my father sent written notice that my mother had died leaving no estate. The collection agency would call saying that a "lawyer" needed to contact us about the debt, which had the intended effect of scaring my father. I told him he could tell them to pound sand. He did, and they crawled back into their hole.

Insist that any demand for payment be made in writing. Credit card companies (and the collection agencies they use) know that a false or misleading demand for payment violates the federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and similar state laws, which could lead to serious regulatory penalties and civil suits by consumers. They'll be much more aggressive and tricky on the phone than they will be in writing. The FDCPA is a "strict liability" statute. The only real wiggle room for debt collectors is if their violation of the act was innocent or inadvertent. It's much harder for them to try that defense if their bogus demand for payment was made in a carefully drafted letter.

I had some fraudulent charges on my "platinum" "total security protection" B of A bank card, and they fell all over themselves doing the absolute minimum they could. This is a card someone stole out of my mailbox evidently, and somehow activated, and somehow used. I even know the thiefs's name (or the name they use anyway), and B of A kinda doesnt care. They will help me recover 60 days worth of charges, but the rest they "aren't legally responsible for." I'm going to get back what money I can from these guys and never do business with them again.

BofA is not only horrible to customers, it also screws its employees. Look at how the "customer service" werebasically punished for not lying to customers.

Each time it takes over a bank or a credit card company, it lays of a large percentage of employees in the target firm. Then they close business offices, data centers, etc. throwing more people out of work unless they relocate (which the bank doesn't pay for.)

It also outsources many of its functions to outside vendors who make money by paying employees less and giving fewer benefits.

It's one thing if you live in a large city and can move on to another job (before September 2008) but anyone living in rural, low population areas, like Albany, Rochester, or Syracuse, NY or Springfield, MA there aren't a lot of good paying jobs around. Most laid off employees end up workng for less pay and some get stuck in part time work.

The atmosphere at the bank is pretty disgusting too.

I worked for 4 years for one of the contractors BofA outsourced network people to. The reason for doing this was supposedly the Bank wanted to focus on its "core business", but the reality was they could cut network people (who tend to by highly paid) loose to make their balance sheet look better.

I have some schadenfreud when BofA posted all those losses -- guess they didn't do so well on their "core business". But BofA got a $35 billion handout; the employees they screwed got nothing.

I'm also hearing that now that the Bank took on Merrill Lynch, they are doing massive layoffs in the investments department so they can bring the ML people in.

"When the bank can find someone else to voluntarily retire the debt, we all save through lower interest rates."

Oh, I see -- Bank of America is just giving him the opportunity to relieve his poor dead mother's moral angst and give her a happier eternity, while at the same time performing a public service by letting him help them avoid having to spend time and money to file as a creditor with the probate court, and therefore reducing interest rates from all Americans.

Well, why didn't they just say so, instead of trying to mislead him into thinking he was obligated to do it?

You're not REALLY as stupid as you pretend to be, are you?

This is important. If you have cc debt and you become disabled, you are not responsible for ANY payments if your disability benefit is your only source of income.

Several yeears ago I was required to inform the collection lackey of this aspect of law--many times! I asked them if they didn't have insurance to cover these losses on their part. Their reply was to question whether I wanted to cover my moral obligation to settle this debt.

I eventually moved and got a new phone number. Now the only calls I get are for the guy who had my phone number before I did. And that was 6 years ago.

i can go one better. My father died. They then transferred his account into my name. (seems some enterprising soul along with way decided to label me as his wife.) i'm still trying to get it straightened out 7 years later.

Oddly enough I have had pretty good luck with BoA, although that has required a few red-faced phone conversations.

To the best of my knowledge this is standard practice for bill collectors. I worked for Sears Credit doing collections and we were absolutely trained to attempt to extract as much from living relatives as we could. That's why I always advise folks to empty out estates as quickly as possible so there is nothing for creditors to sue. Sears Credit also taught us that was perfectly legal and their worst fear when someone dies.

Also, along the same lines, be aware that banks will not necessarily tell you about retirement plan and other accounts the deceased may have had. I worked in the tax sheltered accounts department at Citicorp and they were sitting on millions in accounts belonging to people they knew were deceased. They did this by purposely not sharing information with the branches. So someone would inform a Citibank branch and all of their regular accounts, safe deposit boxes, etc, would be handled properly. But unless a specific claim was made to the tax sheltered accounts department those accounts just sat there. Worse, it wasn't some treasure trove to be discovered--five years or so after someone dies there are so many IRS penalties involved for not withdrawing those accounts on time that they are "empty" as far as the beneficiaries are concerned. In fact it could even wind up costing the beneficiaries money depending on their tax situation. So, of course, at that point even if the beneficiaries do find out about the account they don't bother actually withdrawing it to pay the IRS. And thus it sits, making money for Citicorp.

i have been an executor. in texas, the rule is that a notice of a death is published calling for anyone with claims against the decendent's estate to file them with the probate court.

and this has to be done in a timely fashion for the claimant to have any legitimate standing. in other words, a claim filed after 12 months might well be considered to have no legitimate standing.

my favorite story involved a charitable organization, the YMCA. some time after my dad's death, i received a letter from the local Y telling me that my dad had pledged $10,000 for the construction of a new YMCA facility. But that he had died before paying that pledge...and that surely i would honor that pledge with a check for the $10,000.

Pretty brassy of the YMCA. my dad died after a 3 year bout with cancer. and during that time, i handled his affairs with a power of attorney. that YMCA facility wasn't proposed until after i became my dad's legal representative.

i wrote the YMCA that they were entitled to make a claim against the estate in probate court. never heard from them again.

i wonder how many "charitable" organizations try to run this kind of scam?

the legal obstacles to a "clean" death can be somewhat insurmountable.

to be brief, there is no national standard for how deaths and estates are handled. each state has its own rules. in an odd sense, while you are alive, if you have any assets that you want to see preserved, enhanced even, you might want to think about where to live.

texas is a pretty clean state for handling estate assets. california is a very dirty state.

clean means that an independent executor[family member] can be appointed to manage the estate with no provision for any mandated level of compensation.

dirty means that the state requires an attorney must be involved and that the attorney's compensation[usually a percentage of the estate] is mandated.

but even in texas, the legal profession has mechanisms for putting its hands into an estate's pockets. one of the most interesting stunts that i encountered was the filing of a breach of contract lawsuit against my dad when some contractor learned that he was terminal[less than 6 months].

this contractor hadn't done any work for my dad for over a decade. and my dad for over 2 years was in no frame of mind to renovate his residence.

still, judges allowed the case to go forward even after my dad's death. the suit was never brought against the estate. and the dead man's statute was ignored.

long and short of it, the contractor was connected to the texas republican party. the judge was a crooked democrat d.a. who became a crooked reptillian judge. and the case did bounce to the texas court of appeals, reptillian. who i think issued rulings based on political affiliations and the need to fill their coffers. the dead man statute was ignored and the court of appeals denied our appeal only by citing my attorney's role as USADA from an appointment during the carter administration.

essentially, the republican party decided to loot $40,000 from my dad's estate.

a similar "looting" is often the crux of condemnation "takings". but that is another story of amerikan "justice". for another time.

B of A gives new meaning to the mantra "Service charges with no service."

I just paid off my Visa card and am about to take my business and and personal accounts to a small bank where they have service. I don't mind paying for it but I won't pay fees without any service. They are thieves.

A few years ago the granddaughter of BofA founder, AP Gianini, bailed out, disgusted with what the bank had become.

I hate banks. Not going to relate my tale of woe. Suffice to say,I have ended up" judgement proof" and am in the process of deciding whether to stop paying now or " check out " owing. Screw 'em if they can't take a joke.

I love TPM, I'm a dues paying union member and I'm a die hard liberal, but I do not get this story's outrage at B of A for asking for their money back.

The guy's Mom borrowed money. She didn't pay it back. She is dead, but she is still a dead beat.

Why should the rest of B of A's customers or their employees or shareholders not be able to do whatever is legal to try to recoup the loss?

When my Mom died she had a bunch of bills, they were 2nd in line after loans secured by her house. The home loan was of course paid off, a lien she let linger got paid at about 3.5 times what she had borrowed 20 years earlier, credit card debt was then settled and the remainder went to us kids.

I'm guessing that it would probably be cost prohibitive for banks who are owed under $1000 to followup on every deceased debtor in the probate process, so strong arming some kid who may indeed be getting the $1000 lent to the deceased seems like a reasonable policy to me. When it fails, the bank has to absorb the loss, even if there actually was some money passed from the parent to the snot nosed punk who knew he could cheat them out of it by telling them to f off.

I don't know why this is a surprise. I worked for MBNA's collection department and on their "Recovery" team as well.

We did this all the time. When a family member called up to say he passed away it was standard protocol to send them to people like me. You tried to negotiate the customer into taking a credit card in their name and moving the balance over.

It's shitty, but they have been doing this for ever....

This story is outrageous, I can believe it because I'm dealing with a similar situation. My mother passed away in November and after making a phone call to CHASE to tell them about my mothers death I have been recieving phone call after phone call and letter after letter looking for me to pay her balance.
I explained to the woman on the phone that I'm not responsible for the account and that I can't pay it because when the new year rang in so did my pink slip. I didn't experience the rude behavior on the phone like this man did but they don't seem to get the fact that I can't pay the debt which is a few thousand dollars.
Last week I happened to be reading the newpaper when the phone rang and it was someone at CHASE again so AGAIN I explained to her that my mom had nothing barely enough life insurance to pay for the funeral expenses, that she had no money didn't own anything. I tthen told her that I ws reading an article about the company she works for saying that they recieved 85 billon dollars in TAXPAYER bailout money and they can take the few thousand dollars my mother owes them out of that.
I asked her why are your executives getting multi million dollar bonuses for making poor desisons and running their companies into the ground. She had no answer and said thanks for your time.
Screw these big companies.

My wife and I have had similar experiences with banks. When we were first married in Lancaster, PA, in 1987, we went with Penn Savings Bank.

Within a few years they were swallowed up by Sovereign Bank. (As was most of our banking system). We stayed with them for a while. But then they, without our knowledge or permission, GAVE our funds to an out-of-state party on an unfounded collections claim. We were livid. Not too long after that, we switched to Fulton Bank - a Lancaster-based bank, and one that has been much more cooperative, even when it has been listed on the NYSE and swallowed other banks.

I think the solution to this is to break up our banking system, and insist on smaller, community-based banks. If companies need more capital than is locally available, then they can tap into other banks in other areas.

Oh, we did try to go with a local credit union, PSECU - but they denied us access to our money because of our credit history (it was just a simple $50 deposit). Wasn't allowed to even withdraw it, and checking privileges were denied. Needless to say, we just let that account whith