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House Member Asks Sec. State To Intervene On Torture Prosecutions
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is testifying before the House Foreign Affairs Committee today. She's appearing to testify on the administration's foreign policy but earlier Rep. Dan Burton (R-IN), a senior Republican on the committee, gave her an earful about torture prosecutions. Watch:
I've seen Guantanamo, my colleagues have. We know that they're treated fairly. We haven't been being unhumanitarian [sic] to these people. But we have used very strong techniques to extract information from them. And those techniques were cleared with the leadership of both the House and the Senate--they knew about them. And yet the President of the United States yesterday said that he was leaving it up to Attorney General Holder to see whether or not some of the people from the previous administration could be prosecuted for those activities.... To go to the CIA and say we might prosecute some of you or some of your leaders at the Justice Department that recommended these techniques is just, in my opinion, crazy.... I hope that the President of the United States and you madam secretary will re-evaluate the situation, and not be prosecuting people at the CIA or the Justice Department who were just doing their job to try to protect this country.
Leaving aside for the moment the answered question of whether Guantanamo detainees were treated inhumanely, Burton's barking up the wrong tree here. Whether or not the administration green lights torture investigations and prosecutions is not the Secretary of State's call to make. Burton seems shocked to find that Obama is "leaving it up to Attorney General Holder" to determine whether such a process moves forward but Holder is, in fact, the official whose job it is to make that determination.
Josh
Zachary
Maybe the, um, esteemed house member can prove his point by blowing up a watermelon in his back yard.
April 22, 2009 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I doubt the esteemed House Member, and other outraged conservatives, are thinking this issue through.
They ought to be thinking more about the foreign implications. When Spanish prosecutors recommended against a criminal indictment of the Bush Six (Gonzales, Yoo, Haynes, Feith, Bybee, Addington) last week, their reasoning was that the criminal investigation ought to take place in the United States rather than in Spain. If the Obama Administration -- and in particular the White House rather than DOJ -- declares that there will be no criminal investigation, than that severely undercuts the argument against the Spanish indictment. (Remember, the decision on the Spanish indictment will be made by Judge Baltasar Garzon, not by the Spanish prosecutors.) Consequently, by deferring to DOJ, the Obama Administration is helping protect the Bush Six from indictment in Spain and possibly other foreign jurisdiction. The best outcome for the Bush Six is to have the White House "defer" to DOJ and then have DOJ conclude that the attorneys can't be successfully prosecuted because they only offered legal advice.
I hope that DOJ is truly asserting its independence here, but the cynic in me wonders if the Administration has simply taken a step back to ensure a more thorough white wash.
April 22, 2009 2:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
There appears to me that the DOJ, both prosecutes and defends as in their many Prosecution Offices and their Public Defender Offices. It appears to me it is not an obligation that may be or should be dissmissed from US Constitution, Bill of Rights MANDATED prosecution responsibilities!!
You may recall that over a half century ago that a DOJ Public Defender was applied to all in any and all Court Appearances (including Traffic Courts).
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RE: An Update
Resignation!! What??
Hopefully this will be with full Impeachment Proceedings and that also will at least consider to include the recommendation for the revocation of any and all Bar Association, Lawyer Cards.
Please recall and remember that the seemingly highly disgraced World Bank CEO, Paul Wolfowitz and that Resigned as World Bank CEO whom is now apparently working in a high position at the DOD.
Please recall within the recent decade that seemingly many similar so-called alleged corrupt Individuals//Entities and/or wrongdoers where accomodated with many great rewards, including monetary and within even higher Employment Positions and/or Entities and protections including Deffered Prosecution(s) Agreements!! both past and future!! What!!
Where is the Leadership for the 'Change We Can Believe In' and not the seemingly continued 'Pack of Lies' and/or deceptions and with the same seemingly Cheerleaders and within the continued intolerable Corrupt Policies, Practices and Procedures of the previous Administration(s),
as applicable?!!!!
The same disgusting, shamefull and dispicable lack of Transparency without the US Constitution, Bill of Rights mandate for 'Oversight and Accountability' and/or the continued seemingly deliberate and intentional shamefull, dispicable and appalling display for the lack of willingness and/or ability thereof!!
Where are the abundance overdue many subpoena that have not been accomodated with appearance and/or arrest for appearance?!!!!
Where is the US Constitutional Bill of Rights Leadership for and within our 'We the People' Democracy and within our Declaration of Independence with 'Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness for All'?!!!!
April 22, 2009 2:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where is the Presidential Candidate Obama Promise and Campaign of hope for the 'Change We Can Believe In' and his WRITTEN promise for the 'FEDERAL EMPLOYEE WHISTLEBLOWER PROTECTION RESTORATION ENHANCEMENT ACT'?!!!!
April 22, 2009 2:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where are and where is the US Congressional John Conyer Judicary Committee 8/2008 Hearings and Subpoenas within the ongoing? 'Executive Powers and Its Limitations' IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS!! that where testimony was entered as the most important Hearings within the recent Century!!!!
April 22, 2009 3:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dan B is a phucking idiot, which of course begs the question about the voters returning such products of the offspring of interbreeding as Burton, Bachmann, Inhofe, Burr, ad infinitum to Congress!
April 22, 2009 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I believe you meant "inbreeding."
April 22, 2009 4:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interbreeding sounds like more fun.
However, It would be more believable that nobody will ever be prosecuted for torture when Lynndie English, that prosecuted and convicted guard at Abu Ghraib, is given a presidential pardon since it is now known that she was just following (secret) orders.
April 23, 2009 12:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
How dare OBama leave it up to the Department of Justice to investigate and prosecute crimes. Who do they think they are?? Some kind of justice department?
I bet Rep. Dickface was "grilling" the clerk at the gas station on his way to town this morning. You know the type -- ranting to passersby.
April 22, 2009 1:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
What a partisan creep...doesn't care about our laws, international laws or the rights and lives of "other" people, just cares about what might be a devastating investigation/prosecution in to his precious "party"...oh wait...that's right he is a Republican..!!
April 22, 2009 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
RE: An Update
Resignation!! What??
Hopefully this will be with full Impeachment Proceedings and that also will at least consider to include the recommendation for the revocation of any and all Bar Association, Lawyer Cards.
Please recall and remember that the seemingly highly disgraced World Bank CEO, Paul Wolfowitz and that Resigned as World Bank CEO whom is now apparently working in a high position at the DOD.
Please recall within the recent decade that seemingly many similar so-called alleged corrupt Individuals//Entities and/or wrongdoers where accomodated with many great rewards, including monetary and within even higher Employment Positions and/or Entities and protections including Deffered Prosecution(s) Agreements!! both past and future!! What!!
Where is the Leadership for the 'Change We Can Believe In' and not the seemingly continued 'Pack of Lies' and/or deceptions and with the same seemingly Cheerleaders and within the continued intolerable Corrupt Policies, Practices and Procedures of the previous Administration(s),
as applicable?!!!!
The same disgusting, shamefull and dispicable lack of Transparency without the US Constitution, Bill of Rights mandate for 'Oversight and Accountability' and/or the continued seemingly deliberate and intentional shamefull, dispicable and appalling display for the lack of willingness and/or ability thereof!!
Where are the abundance overdue many subpoena that have not been accomodated with appearance and/or arrest for appearance?!!!!
Where is the US Constitutional Bill of Rights Leadership for and within our 'We the People' Democracy and within our Declaration of Independence with 'Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness for All'?!!!!
April 22, 2009 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where is the Presidential Candidate Obama Promise and Campaign of hope for the 'Change We Can Believe In' and his WRITTEN promise for the 'FEDERAL EMPLOYEE WHISTLEBLOWER PROTECTION RESTORATION ENHANCEMENT ACT'?!!!!
April 22, 2009 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where are and where is the US Congressional John Conyer Judicary Committee 8/2008 Hearings and Subpoenas within the ongoing? 'Executive Powers and Its Limitations' IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS!! that where testimony was entered as the most important Hearings within the recent Century!!!!
April 22, 2009 3:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
He has Clinton Dereangement Syndrome.
Burton's history:
He gave a July 1994 floor speech questioning White House Deputy Council Vincent W. Foster’s apparent suicide. Foster was murdered for the sake of a cover-up. Burton claimed that the body was moved, there were hairs on his shirt that did not belong to him when he was found dead, and that there was carpet and other wool fibers found on his body. Another time that Burton made the news was when he called Bill Clinton a “scumbag” in public.
April 22, 2009 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does anyone else notice that conservatives always talk about torturing "terrorists", never terrorism suspects? Listen to what they say, and there's always not only a presumption of guilt, but a presumption there's no doubt about the guilt. I think they don't care that most detainees turned out to be innocent.
April 22, 2009 2:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
For someone to endorse or even defend torture requires that they presume the tortured to be either guilty of heinous crimes or somehow "less than" an "American". I would not be surprised if it required both (the second a contingency if the first is proven incorrect).
It is unfortunate that we as a nation spend so much time debating the definitions of torture that we largely overlook the full extent of our nation's misdeeds. I for one am of the opinion that sending our military to other countries, snatching people out of their homes and sticking them in prisons without trial is a human rights violations. Regardless of how well they are treated or how guilty they are. And perhaps I am naive, but I would say that our constitution seems to support that position.
April 22, 2009 4:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where are and where is the US Congressional John Conyer Judicary Committee 8/2008 Hearings and Subpoenas within the ongoing? 'Executive Powers and Its Limitations' IMPEACHMENT HEARINGS!! that where testimony was entered as the most important Hearings within the recent Century!!!!
April 22, 2009 3:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm puzzled as to the size of Indiana's gene pool.
Burton, Larry Bird and Fuzzy Zoeller appear to have been born to the same parents.
April 22, 2009 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
He is an adulterer, was a cartoonduring the Clinton impeachment , a cartoon during the Vince Foster suicide and remains a cartoon. Indiana's finest!
April 22, 2009 4:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
You don't have to be an American citizen to be elected to Congress? It's obvious that Burton has absolutely no idea of what America is all about.
It's also obvious that he isn't the sharpest cheese on the cracker either, because the arguments he uses to claim that somehow torture is effective fly in the face of reality. He should know this. He should be aware that the information that arose from torture was bogus, that the techniques were actually designed by the Chinese and North Koreans to elicit bogus confessions (see John McCain). He should be aware that the vast majority of good information came from standard interrogation techniques. And that he would say with a straight face that we are treating the prisoners in Guantanamo humanely when several of them cannot be prosecuted because they were driven insane beggars belief!
April 22, 2009 5:00 PM | Reply | Permalink