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Conservative Radio Host After Being Waterboarded: "Absolutely Torture"
Conservative radio host Eric "Mancow" Muller decided to have himself waterboarded to show it's no big deal.
His response after enduring several seconds of having water poured on his face?
"It is way worse than I thought it would be, and that's no joke." He added: "Had I known that it was that bad I wouldn't have done this ... I don't want to say this: absolutely torture."
Watch:
And remember: this was in a controlled setting where the victim knew he wasn't going to be harmed.
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Josh
Zachary
Sweet.
May 22, 2009 6:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's an account of a guy who tried water boarding on himself.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=448717
...I determined to give this a try, see how bad it was: Settle the debate authoritatively. Torture, or not?
I figure I would be a good test subject. I am incredibly fit and training for a 100 mile endurance run. The main thing about such an event is ability to tolerate pain. I am good at this. I am trained.
I also have experience with free-diving from my college days. I once held my breath for 4 minutes and two seconds. Once, while training as a lifeguard I swam laps without breathing until I passed out, so that I could know my limits.
To determine whether waterboarding is an acceptable interrogation technique or torture I must research it an then undergo it myself.
To be continued...
May 23, 2009 4:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Trying different methods of water boarding on himself, he finds ways to avoid getting water into his lungs. Finally, he does one of the more extreme versions and gets water into his lungs. The result:
It took me ten minutes to recover my senses once I tried this. I was shuddering in a corner, convinced I narrowly escaped killing myself.
. . .
It seems that there is a point that is hardwired in us. When we draw water into our respiratory tract to this point we are no longer in control. All hell breaks loose. Instinct tells us we are dying.
I have never been more panicked in my whole life. Once your lungs are empty and collapsed and they start to draw fluid it is simply all over. You know you are dead and it's too late. Involuntary and total panic.
There is absolutely nothing you can do about it. It would be like telling you not to blink while I stuck a hot needle in your eye.
At the time my lungs emptied and I began to draw water, I would have sold my children to escape. There was no choice, or chance, and willpower was not involved.
I never felt anything like it, and this was self-inflicted with a watering can, where I was in total control and never in any danger.
. . .
So, is it torture?
I'll put it this way. If I had the choice of being waterboarded by a third party or having my fingers smashed one at a time by a sledgehammer, I'd take the fingers, no question.
May 23, 2009 4:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
It should be against the law to deny torture, unless you're willing to undergo the things you want to deny are torture!
One more person converted to truth-telling!
May 22, 2009 7:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
If he changes his party affiliation to Democrat then I'll believe.
May 23, 2009 1:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
The irony regarding the torture advocate is that here is the guy who received five draft deferments during the Vietnam War, six years to finish a 4 year degree and then getting off because his wife was pregnant. This is the ultimate all talk kind of false bravado kind of guy.
I just wrote an editorial on Thursday's theater and in short Cheney is seeking to hold that America's conscience is what he defines as the "dark side" while Obama is calling for the traditional American righteous values of the rule of law....what do you think will prevail?
Cheney and all his minions are in for a long slow legal torture of their own. I see shackles in the future, long permanent stay in some minimum security prison camp like Leavenworth, next to the maximum security military prison.
May 23, 2009 6:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hannity...we're waiting.
May 22, 2009 7:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Hannity the Manatee [http://scienceblogs.com/retrospectacle/manatee.bmp]" is a femme and a pussy.
Don't hold your breath waiting for the likes of him.
May 23, 2009 11:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
This whole debate is being framed by Repugnican BS'ers. Waterboarding has been known as torture since the Spanish Inquisition.
May 22, 2009 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
sorry, but i don't know where else to put this question, and it's sort of related to waterboarding:
i keep seeing liz cheney say how there are these classified memos that show that we got great information from torturing people.
my question is this (and it's not meant to be a "gotcha" question ... i just don't know the answer to it): how does she know that? does she have the proper security clearance to have been briefed on that information?
May 22, 2009 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's a good point. I mean, the other point is this: why does the information obtained justify the way it was obtained? Why do people insist on saying that IF we are told certain information, we can water-board (or we can throw people in a brig, turn up the heat to 120 degrees and give a them a slice of bread at 5am and nothing again till they give us what we want to know)?
Mussolini ran a pretty safe Italy. It doesn't mean the rule of law was relevant.
May 22, 2009 10:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Daddy told her.
May 22, 2009 10:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with the sentiment. Joe Scarborough talks about the mysterious classified memos every day. He's been out of congress for years so I'm quite sure he hasn't seem the personally so I guess he's just taking Cheney's word for it which seems especially stupid since believing Cheney's when he says he knows secret things that we don't is how we got into Iraq. Remember the whole "There is no doubt that Iraq has reinvigorated is WMD program" insinuating that he knew of better intelligence than was being released.
The other point is very valid as well. No one ever doubted that you could get someone to talk using torture. I can assure you that the founding father didn't ban it because it didn't work. They banned it because it is a morally corrupting act that would sooner or later be used to force false confession from the innocent. We will never know if the intelligence we gained through torture could have been obtained another way.
May 22, 2009 11:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
How would she know about these classified memos? I don't believe she's given a security clearance just because her daddy was the VP. Besides, a person is only authorized to view documents at their clearance level AND they have to prove they have a need to know. She's singing a sirens song of pure bullshit.
May 23, 2009 1:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, Liz Cheney needs to know this (whether or not it's true) in order to be able to defend her father. That's a need to her.
And Dick Cheney has defended his daughter's right to be in potentially illegal relationships. So it follows that the daughter should defend her father's right to break the law.
May 23, 2009 3:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's the good information Liz Cheney was probably referring to:
http://www.counterpunch.org/mcgovern05192009.html
May 23, 2009 2:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is what it takes to convince a republican about what torture is? Anyone missed Christopher Hitchens getting waterboarded?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LPubUCJv58
Sadly I never heard this discussion in other countries I've lived in ........ only in AMERICA.
May 22, 2009 10:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bwahaha. That's waterboarding?
These guys take more than that and go back for more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MsVzAkmds0
May 22, 2009 11:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Darth Cheney and or Sean Insanity should do this experiment to see what they think it's like. Documented and publically broadcast.
May 22, 2009 11:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Should we create a days Hannity hasn't gotten waterboarded facebook page?
May 23, 2009 12:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
What's with leaving his mouth uncovered? This isn't the waterboarding procedure that has been documented elsewhere.
May 23, 2009 12:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Forces you to breath thru your nose. Natural instinct kicks in really quick. If you are tied or held down and that flight reaction kicks in panic mode shifts into high gear. And this all happens in a matter of seconds. This is very calculated.
May 23, 2009 2:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't understand how that relates. This wasn't waterboarding as described in the military documentation in any of its versions used in the current circumstances.
May 23, 2009 2:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Per Josh's comments on the main page, I'm convinced that the Hannity/Beck crowd live in a cartoon Pro Wrestling universe, where they are playing the part of the heel. This may be a cognitive dissonance avoidance scheme, as they tell themselves that it's just entertainment, and in reality, they are really good guys, who are just doing what they do to get paid. Even though its easy for these guys to cheerlead torture they never have to witness, it's a different deal once they get a tiny taste of it themselves.
I'll give Mancow credit for doing it, and coming out and saying it's torture (that's gotta be the first and easiest confession to force out of the victim), and Hannity is secretly scared sh*tless--we all know he'd be crying like a baby and crack like an eggshell from the first drops of water.
May 23, 2009 11:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
I thought Mancow was a real jerk of a radio personality when he was in San Francisco. "Good Riddance" to him after he jammed up the Bay Bridge for hours with an on-the-air stunt.
I now think differently about him. He has more guts than Hannity and is honest about his experience. Yes, waterboarding IS torture. Let us never forget that when the neocons misdirect and obfuscate this topic.
May 23, 2009 7:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Its called Mammalian Diving Reflex.
May 23, 2009 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
When we are attacked again, and we will be because " Rust never sleeps ", the poor misunderstood community organizers, might just have a plan that will include infomation they read in the NY Times. They will be better prepaired.
May 23, 2009 1:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why withdraw the challenge to Hannity?
May 23, 2009 11:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Chicken Hawks who promote torture as the only solution to keeping us safe will never submit to anything like this - they are too busy running their mouthes and playing to the 30% who listen and watch their drivel! They should all relocate to Texas or Alaska and secede from the union!
May 24, 2009 7:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
The "tell" is that as long as it's clear that waterboarding provides a physiological reaction akin to undergoing death... how could mere "bad apple" grunts have possessed all the medical and psy-ops expertise to come up with this technique?
The only way, e.g., Lynndie England and Charles Graner (as an example) would have known about any of the ramifications of waterboarding in the victim's mind, would have been if someone had instructed them. Soldiers like these two didn't have the background to develop such a devastating physiological and psychological weapon, on their own.
My second question is: knowing this, how can the MSM still be treating this as He Said/She Said, every time some gasbag claims "waterboarding isn't torture"?
It's as if, to a man or woman, they're totally oblivious to the fact that a couple of yay-hoos do not highly-skilled intelligence operatives from the Dark Side make. One would need to believe that England and Graner independently came up with the concept of waterboarding, which was pretty far above their pay grade. You're gonna tell me the MSM just never made that leap?
Waterboarding is quite obviously a highly-developed Black Ops technique... but not to hear Cheney and the talk show hosts tell the tale (that is, until they themselves are waterboarded).
May 24, 2009 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, duh.
May 25, 2009 3:43 AM | Reply | Permalink