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Is The Most Forceful Advocate For Probing Torture ... Dick Cheney?
This goes way beyond strange bedfellows. But it looks like Dick Cheney has emerged as the single most forceful proponent of a full investigation of the Bush administration's torture policies.
In an interview on CBS's Face The Nation yesterday, the ex-veep claimed, as he has before, that the Obama administration's rejection of torture has made us less safe. But he also went further ever in repeatedly arguing -- contra congressional Republicans -- that we need to look back at the details of the torture program before moving forward.
Here's what Cheney told Bob Schieffer:
When you get rid of enhanced interrogation techniques, for example, or the terrorist surveillance program, you reduce the intelligence flow to the intelligence community upon which we based those policies that were so successful.So I think before they do that sort of thing, it's important to sit down and find out what did we learn?
Cheney also reminded Schieffer that last month he had requested that the National Archives release several CIA memos which, he has said, will show that torture was effective.
"Release the memos," he said yesterday. "And we can look and see for yourself what was produced." He continued: "If we're going to have this debate, it ought to be a complete debate, and those memos ought to be out there for people to look at and journalists like yourself to evaluate in terms of what we were able to accomplish with these policies."
Cheney even told Schieffer that he'd "talk to" congressional investigators about the program, adding: " I wouldn't be out here today if I didn't feel comfortable talking about what we're doing publicly."
Here's video of that exchange, and a bit more:
Of course, the investigation Cheney appears to want to see would have a very different focus from the one that, say, Johnathan Turley is looking for. While torture opponents want a probe to look at exactly who ordered and approved the harsh techniques, with a view to possible prosecutions, the former VP instead seems to want concentrate on the question of torture's effectiveness -- and seems interested only in evidence that would bolster his case that has helped save lives.
Still, it's hard to look at either question without getting into the other. Which is why the clear consequence of Cheney's position is to lend support to those calling for a full accounting of what happened.
So how about this for a head-turning new slogan for torture opponents? "Listen To Dick Cheney: Investigate Torture."
Josh
Zachary
I also watched and listened to former US Vice President Dick Cheney on CBS 'Face The Nation' 5/10/2009 at 8:50AM, PST and the following is the intrepretation and that would presumably be concurred by a reasonable person.
What Former US Vice President Dick Cheney said was;
1) Horrific. Horrific. The same 'Pack of Lies'!!
(Maniacal, Dishonest, Disingenuous, Deranged,
Despotic!!!!).
2) Despotic, Deranged, Maniacal, Dishonest!! as
VP Dick Cheney clearly and unmistakeably
stated to imply that 'Miranda"!! Rights!!
should be abolished and replaced
with 'Dick Cheney' 'US Law'!! that no one is
allowed to speak with a 'Lawyer, Attorney'!!
or have any 'Right'!! or any 'Access to a
legal Court of Law'!! especially a Democratic
US Court of Law!!
Also, these where the similar and
identical procedures that where
allegedly implemented Throughout the
Bush//Cheney era and confirmed by VP Dick
Cheney and implied that President Bush had
full knowledge and consent!!!!
I do not see it possible to be avoided and to avoid the issuance of an arrest warrent and subpoena for these two Individuals, George Bush and Dick Cheney, et all on Monday Morning 5/10/2009.
Also, please note and as it is reported and within the World concept of Legal fact and treaties that tortue is 100% Illegal and a most serious Crime.
It is also reported that 'Sleep Depravation' is one of or the most insidious violent painful tortures known to man.
Also and gain, Where is our Main Stream Media??!!!!!
Again, Where is our US Executive, Legislative and Judicial Branch of our 'We the People' US Government??!!!!!
These are well known World and Domestic High and Most serious Crimes!!!!!
Where are the Investigations, Subpoenas, Arrests and/or Prosecutions as seemingly mandated, demanded and required by our US Constitution, Bill of Rights and within our proper and forthright, Obligations and Responsibilities towards our Treaties and within our Declaration of Independence of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness for All??!!!!!
Thank you for your time and consideration.
May 11, 2009 12:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Although I was unable to watch Obama's Roast last night, I did see some excerpts on CNN and came to an abrupt conclusion. There WILL be no prosecutions for torture... most likely EVER again... in the United States.
Why?
Because these past few generations of Americans have been so flooded with blood and guts on television and at the movies... and have been so inundated with atrocities and human misery that it makes no impact on our psyches anymore.
Just look back thirty or forty years and recall the humor. Although it was rather harsh even then, there would have been an uproar from almost everyone if President (or any representative of the American public) laughed or joked about torture (now known as enhanced interrogation)...
yet Obama made a joke of it when discussing Cheney... and folks laughed!
When I was a kid growing up, the concept of torture would have turned most people's stomachs... and laughing or telling jokes about it would most likely cause many decent people to turn away and avoid the joker for some time.
Now, however, it causes nothing but laughter.
This is why I do not think this... or any president will ever again decide to prosecute government leaders who decide to torture other human beings.
It just isn't that bad anymore... and that is a shame, for regard for other human beings is what USED to make us civilized.
Today, we think torture is just a good subject for a joke...
I am glad I am getting old and my stay here is limited because the thought of torturing another human being STILL turns my stomach and I cannot to this day, think of it as a laughing matter.
So Dick, if you're reading these blogs, do not worry. No one in office has enough clout to put you on trial. Rather, they will use your actions for material for their comedy shows... and folks will laugh... IMHO
May 11, 2009 12:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lets hope the mentioned CNN reffered, (my interpretation) Glib!!, (and seemingly noticable relaxed game winning type strut) with the seemingly hoodwinking ineptness and incompetence will change Immediately!! and Today!! for the 'Change We Can Believe In' and within his Promises and Pledges.
Also Most Importantly and Obviously, Lets Hope and as I expect the mandates within our US Constitution, Bill of Rights and Declarations of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness for All be will be forthrightly upheld by our US Executive, Legislative and Judicial Branches of our US Government and especially in the proper and forthright, respect and regard towards our Laws, Rules and Regulations, Treaties, Obligations, Responsibilities as best as possible and as thereof and within and towards God, Man and Country.
May 11, 2009 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lets give the old F**k his fondest wish, seems as though it would be a wonderful way to pay the homage he feels he deserves....investigate his alternative universe and prosecute the hell out of him...maybe he has decided to set him self up as the "martyr" and sacrificial lamb of the Republican party...after all he is a crazy old man with a bad heart...we wouldn't REALLY prosecute him..now would we..we are not barbarians..are we..?
May 11, 2009 12:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Generally in full agreement with your blog comment reply and that Transparency with 'Overight and Accountability' is mandated within our US Constitution, Bill of Rights, Laws, Rules and Regulations, please note that in any 'matyr' mentions that former Vice-President Dick Cheney clearly stated and with seemingly enthusiasm stated the then US President George Bush was seemingly fully informed and he enthustically stated would have seemingly fully consented to these clear and alleged atrocities (and to be incorporated upon all Democratic Governments and humanity)!!!!!
May 11, 2009 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Therefore it could easily be alleged and/or seemingly contemplated that a question could be again continued and (again forthcomming);
'1) Will President Barack keep his Promises and Pledges
2) or will he continue with the Bush//Obama Administration to the Obama//Bush Administration and now more readily known 'George Bush//Dick Cheney' Law of Illegal Secrets, Torture, Rendition, Wiretaps, Murder ecetra and the loss of FISA and Habeas Corpus ecetra!!
Thank you for your time and consideration.
May 11, 2009 1:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, we hung Japanese soldiers for waterboarding prisoners of war, sooo...
May 12, 2009 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do not put this past Cheney. He undoubtably knows who was briefed and who was not briefed on the torture issue. I am certain and saddened that major members of the democratic side of the aisle knew what was going on. If all the information is released as Cheney has requested then there will be blood on peoples hands on both sides.
Cheney really has nothing to loose. His legacy is fixed. As if he really cares about that. What his duty is to do now is to spread the blood around as much as possible.
Personally, if there are people on the democratic side of the aisle who knew of what was going on and did nothing about it then they too should fall. This issue is about restoring the good name of the United States. Not just punishing the GOP for political gain.
May 11, 2009 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm with you. Anyone who knew and chose silence needs to go down. I think Cheney's making a big deal about the "evidence" because he thinks they won't release the memos. Schieffer sure kissed arse. He has been a great disappointment to me for a while now.
May 11, 2009 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Even though I am in full general agreement with your blog comment reply and that I do not and will not detour from this issue, although in my additional response to your sentences of 'This issue is about restoring the good name of the United States. Not just punishing the GOP for political gain.' that I mention that too;
Please note and that I ascertain as obviously and as a 'We the People' that I could and I ascertain a reasonable person would concur that the 'Enactment' of the implementation of the 'Death penalty' is innaposite of all Democratic Governments and is not possible within the proper and forthright interpretation of our US Constitution, Bill of Rights and is against all Laws, Religions and all Teaching Principles and God, Man and Country and certainly opposite our proper and forthright respect and regard towards our endeavors and Declaration of Independence with Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness for all.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
May 11, 2009 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Time to call Cheney's bluff. He has now openly admitted his involvement along with the President in this illegal program. There is NOTHING that he can say that mitigates in any way the illegality of waterboarding and other "enhanced interrogation" techniques authorized by his administration.
It's time for the DOJ to bring indictments. If any Dems are shown to have been involved in the formulation and approval of this program (rather than just being "briefed") they must also face the consequences.
May 11, 2009 1:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think Cheney wants to make two points:
- it wasn't torture
- EIT were effective
His bet is that any torture investigation is going to open such a smelly can of worms that it will take down some important Democrats. Plus, it will alienate CIA even further from Obama and distract him from all those things he set his eyes on.
Which is exactly why Obama said he wanted to look the other way.. oops, forward, and move on.
May 11, 2009 1:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please note that if President Barack Obama kept his Written!! and Pledged!! Promise to the 'Federal Employee Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Restoration Act' and for all past cases to be opened and re-opened and that was at the last minute removed from the 2/2009 'Stimilus Bill' from a secret Conference US President Obama and US Senator, Susan Collins (Chairperson US Senate Homeland Security Good Government and Ethics Committee)!!!!! this would at least allow the CIA, FBI et all to have some reasonable avenue to be heard and not a victim of as I, again attache below;
-----------------------------------------------
'1) Will President Barack keep his Promises and Pledges
2) or will he continue with the Bush//Obama Administration to the Obama//Bush Administration and now more readily known 'George Bush//Dick Cheney' Law of Illegal Secrets, Torture, Rendition, Wiretaps, Murder ecetra and the loss of FISA and Habeas Corpus ecetra!!
Thank you for your time and consideration.
May 11, 2009 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is it possible that, apart from being a Dick, Mr. Cheney may actually be a delusional paranoid?
May 11, 2009 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Absolutely! Or perhaps a sociopath. He can lie with total ease but being part of the military war (bigtime) profiteering gang does require a certain ability to deny that one's nose is actually on one's face.
May 11, 2009 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I vote for sociopath. Look at any picture of the guy's eyes in the last 8 years. His eyes are "dead"--there is no feeling, compassion, empathy or understanding in them. His soul is dead, and definitely gone to the "dark side".
May 11, 2009 8:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Honestly, I do not know what is more despicable. Cheney et.al for divising and emplementing the torture program or those who opposed it on principal, were briefed and did nothing to stop it. They looked the other way.
The rot needs to be reemoved from both sides of the aisle.
May 11, 2009 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dick is not afraid of inquiry because he thinks that he as a former VP is untouchable and as a heart patient, he knows that the human parts of his body don't have too many more years left.
This guy has nothing to lose! (I think Wanda Sykes may have tipped us off a bit here: Make sure to search Dick Cheney if he ever visits the Capitol. He might be packing heat and intent on a suicide attack. )
May 11, 2009 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's interesting that since Cheney left office most photos of him are smiling. Photo editors, Cheney is smiling more - maybe he didn't like working with Bush either!!
May 11, 2009 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have a feeling that Cheney's got the whole thing rigged in his favor. That's the way he operates. It's the way he has always operated. He wouldn't be volunteering otherwise.
He's very risk-averse when it's his ass on the line. Not so much for other people's asses though.
May 11, 2009 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's a gambit, to be sure. Fortune favors the bold, and I know Cheney is aware of this, but that doesn't mean the fix is in.
I hope he dies in prison.
May 11, 2009 3:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bingo! If these mythical memos ever see the light of day you can be sure that Darth had them cooked up long ago just for this purpose. Hopefully some enterprising reporter will have the tenacity to track down their origins ...
May 11, 2009 11:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
-Dick on the Hill video montage-
Ive been a bad bad Dick,
Ive been careless with a delicate man.
And its a sad sad world,
When a interrogator can break a boy
Just because Uncle Dick memorands......
.....Heaven help me for the way I am.
Save me from these evil deeds.
Before I get them done.
I know tomorrow brings the consequence
At hand.
But I keep livin this day like
The next will never come....
......What I need is a good defense
cause Im feelin like a criminal.
And I need to be redeemed
To the ones I sinned against
Because my office was all I ever knew of love...
May 11, 2009 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
I will never forgive you for what you have done to my visualization of Fiona Apple...
May 12, 2009 1:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why would anyone trust a document that Dick has anything to do with? I'd rather see an investigation into 9/11.
May 11, 2009 3:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Be careful what you ask for. My thoughts: I think that Cheney has a motive and the motive is revenge, revenge against Bush for not giving Libby a presidential pardon. It is for sure that Cheney is trying very hard to effect something with his constant torture matra. He might have revealed this motive this weekend when he clearly placed the torture directive in the lap of George W. Bush. Does anyone else see this like I do?
May 11, 2009 3:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I picked up on that too. Maybe his deal is "if I go down, you go down with me Georgie-boy".
May 11, 2009 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you all will join me at precisely 12:00 pm e.s.t tomorrow, I'm sure we can all collectively wish Dick Cheney into the corn fields!
May 11, 2009 3:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's easier than that. Just ignore him. He'll vanish of his own accord.
May 12, 2009 12:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Not as long as the corporate media keep inviting him out of his crypt for interviews...
May 12, 2009 1:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Darn it! I misread the heading. I thought it said "Cheney's view on torture, bring it on." I thought he was doing a Hannity and was asking to be tortured. I would have been very much in favor of that.
May 11, 2009 3:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can someone jiggle the handle on the tpmreaderbot?
May 11, 2009 6:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Some have tried--none have succeeded (LoVe the WhimsicAl CapitAliZaTION!!)
May 11, 2009 11:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
My apologies.
Clearly and as I was going to acknowledge and/or should have acknowledged that I should have given a better Diplomatic effort and not have replied in a impromptu and within the mentioned frustrations and exasperations.
I should have seemingly tried to find and apply a more kind acknowledgement towards my exception to your blog comment remarks, directed to seemingly discredit me and my blog comment replies.
May 12, 2009 12:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Word salad worthy of Sarah Palin herself.
May 12, 2009 1:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
I take exception to your allegations as they appear to discredit me and discredit and distract from blog comment replies within this TPM Article.
Also they are without substance and inapropriatley ambiguous.
May 12, 2009 7:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hmmm.
You write poorly.
Better?
May 13, 2009 9:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Seriously, can we stop talking about Dick Cheney? Darth's biggest fear, the one that keeps him awake sweating at night, is that he's going to become irrelevant, forgotten, dead news. The man doesn't give a hoot what anyone says about him, as long as they don't stop talking about him.
Want to help send Dick Cheney to his own private Hell? STOP TALKING ABOUT HIM!!
May 12, 2009 12:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Do you seriously think that Lord Cheney gives a fuck whether people talk about him on a liberal blog? He cares about getting exposure in the corporate media... which he's getting, in spades, and which he will continue to get, and we little people can do zero about it. Unless you'd care to mount a boycott of their advertisers?
May 12, 2009 1:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Every echo of the stories carried by the MSM, including those here in ChatterWorld, encourage them to go on reporting what DC says.
May 12, 2009 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
As you may know or recall, your suggestion is also condidered a crime of complicity//conspiracy of mayhem.
Our Us Executive, Legislative and Judicial Leaders and Members may not advocate from or avoid their Sworn duty to uphold our US Constitution, Bill of Rights and within our Declarations, Treaties and within the Obligations and Responsibilities within our Laws, Rules and Regulations.
May 12, 2009 7:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Huh?
May 12, 2009 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
As you may know or recall, your suggestion is also considered a crime of complicity//conspiracy of mayhem.
Our Us Executive, Legislative and Judicial Leaders and Members may not advocate from or avoid their Sworn duty to uphold our US Constitution, Bill of Rights and within our Declarations, Treaties and within the Obligations and Responsibilities within our Laws, Rules and Regulations.
May 12, 2009 3:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the cackling and sniggering at the old fool may be a bit premature. I've been of the opinion his "gauntlet throwing" exceeds ideological zeal and is the action of someone who has an accurate count of the SCOTUS votes to etch in stone his imperial dictates. I think this is the final act of the Cheney re-shaping of our government, that is for the bushco court to overturn his conviction with a ruling that gives us the unitary presidency that was denied his idol, Dick Nixon.
May 12, 2009 4:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
cheney simply believes that a good defense is being on the offensive...he thinks he scares everyone
May 13, 2009 4:28 AM | Reply | Permalink