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Pelosi Camp: She Didn't Sign Torture Protest Letter Out Of Respect For "Appropriate" Channels
Some progress in the debate over what Nancy Pelosi knew about torture and when she knew it...
The Pelosi camp is now telling The Politico that Pelosi learned in early 2003 that we were waterboarding detainees, but took no real action out of respect for "appropriate" legislative channels.
Pelosi denies having been told in her September 2002 CIA briefing that we had already conducted waterboarding. But in February 2003, Michael Sheehy, a top aide to Pelosi, was briefed, along with Rep. Jane Harman, on the fact that the technique had already been used on Abu Zubaydah. And Pelosi's camp acknowledges that Sheehy would have informed her about what he was told.
In response to the briefing, Harman sent a classified letter of protest to the CIA. Pelosi's camp says Pelosi, by then the Democratic leader, told Sheehy to tell Harman she agreed with the letter, but did not ask to co-sign it.
This clarifies things considerably. Whether or not you think that Pelosi acted appropriately here, we're no longer splitting hairs about questions like whether Pelosi was told that waterboarding had already occurred or just that it had been approved for use, and whether waterboarding as opposed to other forms of torture was discussed. Instead, we're arguing about whether Pelosi did enough upon learning that we were committing torture.
That's not a simple question. Steve Elmendorf, who was chief of staff to Dick Gephardt, the Democratic leader until the end of 2002, tells Politico, in Pelosi's defense: "You have to remember, in the 2002 period, the whole atmospherics, it was all about scaring people every day. People were legitimately concerned that we were going to be attacked again, and there was a constant drumbeat coming from the Bush administration of, 'Bad things could happen, bad things could happen.' Nobody wants it to happen on their watch."
But by the same token, it's important to hold public officials to high standards. Ideally, we'd have had Democratic leaders at the time who were willing to risk the political consequences and stand up for what's right.
Does that mean that Pelosi et al were anything like as complicit in the torture program as the Bushies who conceived it, approved it, and carried it out? Of course not. But that's not the only metric by which we should be judging our leaders.
Josh
Zachary
And how many times did the say they water-boarded? I am sure they did not inform them that they did 80 sum odd times? Can we get a little more outrage. To think they did it once was bad enough but to have done it as many times as this seems just cruel and inhumane. Also it seems hard to comprehend why exactly this course used so frequently would produce anything other than a sadist pleasure with others pain. It is a shock to the conscience of this american.
And here we now have the conservatives with the gears winded up with Wanda Sykes commentary at the WCD. Yes here in America we have conservatives who want small government and fiscal restraint but when they go to the voting booth they elect GOP candidates which intrude on constitutional rights and balloon government spending. We have conservatives that defend torture and harsh interrogations then criticize harsh jokes at a dinner. And I have been criticized by a particular conservative in the past for being a relativist, the chutzpah. The GOP is wearing no clothes and Wanda Sykes jut pointed it out!
May 12, 2009 11:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
notice that her respect did not include the hundreds of thousands of patriots who have given their lives over the past two centuries to PREVENT torture and PUNISH regimes who do.
Thus is our new leadership... they respect their own positions of power and greed... NOTHING ELSE!!!
They are TROMPING on our heritage and future... and those patriots who they are NOW sending to their deaths... for what?
It certainly has nothing to do with supporting what THIS veteran fought for!
May 12, 2009 11:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am so sick of and frustrated with Pelosi. What's it take to depose a House Speaker?
May 12, 2009 11:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'd like to add my pent up feelings on this Pelosi woman. Off the top of my head, I'd just say that..... What a bitch lying hypocritical rat feces of a woman; phony-ass barely a congresswoman let alone a homo sapien, that should clearly be removed from the Speakers chair, as a result of her lying to the people of the US and her incredible suck up 102 standing, hand clapping ovations while Obomba reads his speach on teleprompters . . . .Pelosi has and continues to HUMILIATE us again.
Yeah Nancy! Term Limits . . . Please let’s figure out a way to include term limits for our Washington representatives.
May 13, 2009 12:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
It was broadcast today on the Democracynow.org, now archived, if I remember correctly, we sent a person to Egypt to be Tortured and knowingly used his, under Torture false Statements to the illegal Torture Secret Bush//Cheney Law to go to the Illegal War upon Iraq.
Again, Please note this seemingly appears now to be the Bush, Cheney//Obama to the continued Obama//Bush,Cheney continuing Law (No Rights to a US Court, Attorney, Law//No Human Rights!!) (illegal torture, secrets, rendition, murder, wiretaps, patriot act ecetra and the abolishment of Habeas Corpus and FISA ecetra!!) and with the seemingly continued full support of our US Legislative Speaker Pelosi and US Senator Kennedy 'Impeachment is of the Table!!
Thank you for your time and consideration.
May 12, 2009 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Important note of Concern;
I am inclined to suggest that also, the scheduled 5/12/2009 Chairman Edolphis Towns, US Congressional Oversight Committee with alleged Testimony from GAP, NWC ecetra, so-called Federal 'Whistleblower' Bill 1507 (that I cannot find anywhere) in my seemingly correct opinion would be a complete hoodwinking fraud if it does not include all CIA,FBI,DOJ (example; FBI, Sibel Edmunds, CIA, Valerie Plame, myself and many others, et all), ecetra Whistleblowers and too include all past cases too open, reopen ecetra, to be to a seemingly relevant and/or significant a hoodwinking fraud.
Please note that most likely, when found//introduced that 1507 will most likely be identical to the 2003, S1358 and 2007, HR985 and many others that where so-called fully passed and with a overwhelming 'Presidential' 'Veto Proof' US Legislative Majority!!!!
Thank you for your time and consideration.
May 12, 2009 12:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hearing Scheduled on Thursday 5-14-2009,
10:00AM EST.
May 12, 2009 12:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
My faith, hope and trust is that Hopefully Mr. Devine at GAP, Government Accountability Project and Mr. S. Kohn at NWC, National Whistleblower Center will not be hoodwinked and become victims of allegations of (felony?) Mayhem if they support the exclusion of CIA, FBI, DOJ ecetra, 'Whistleblowers' and past cases such as, Examples; myself, Sibel Edmonds FBI, Valerie Plame CIA, Jesselyn Radack DOJ and all other applicable 'Whistleblowers' et all.
Also as it would seemingly clearly and unmistakeably supress 'Whistleblowers' and therefore be a serious and continuing complete travesty towards God, Man, Country and Humanity!!
Thank you for your time and consideration.
May 12, 2009 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
The truth is, NOBODY gave a damn about what our government was doing to protect us following September 11. Everyone was so worried about another attack that a collective blind eye was turned.
I don't know why she can't be honest about it. We were all there. We remember how we felt. 2009 is not 2002, but we all experienced 2001. Perhaps some honesty for a change?
May 12, 2009 11:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Everybody on the Intelligence Committees of BOTH Houses is implicate in torture crimes.
That's why there will be absolutely NOTHING concrete or substantive done about it...
Waddarya, kidding me?
I doubt there are 10 among all 535 elected representatives, Senate AND House, who would have had the stones to call the Regime on their practices, even if they had been widely disseminated.
May 12, 2009 12:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
tokin,
agreed. Ironically the Bush/Cheney gang has done much damage to the Democrats that isn't obvious on the surface.
Hillary voted for the war to cover her political ass; it cost her the Presidency. Many Dems voted with her and lost their ability to express outrage without seeming to be hypocrites. Many Dems made cheap political speeches telling us how evil Saddam was and their speeches were used against them. The whole torture story is just another case of spineless Democrats going along to get along and now paying the price.
Pelosi's alibis seem lame to me.
I'm still pissed off at Pelosi for going beyond her authority and saying "Impeachment is off the table."
May 12, 2009 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Important note of Concern;
I am inclined to suggest that also, the scheduled 5/12/2009 Chairman Edolphis Towns, US Congressional Oversight Committee with alleged Testimony from GAP, NWC ecetra, so-called Federal 'Whistleblower' Bill 1507 (that I cannot find anywhere) in my seemingly correct opinion would be a complete hoodwinking fraud if it does not include all CIA,FBI,DOJ (example; FBI, Sibel Edmunds, CIA, Valerie Plame, myself and many others, et all), ecetra Whistleblowers and too include all past cases too open, reopen ecetra, to be to a seemingly relevant and/or significant a hoodwinking fraud.
Please note that most likely, when found//introduced that 1507 will most likely be identical to the 2003, S1358 and 2007, HR985 and many others that where so-called fully passed and with a overwhelming 'Presidential' 'Veto Proof' US Legislative Majority!!!!
Thank you for your time and consideration.
May 12, 2009 12:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hearing Scheduled on Thursday, 5-14/2009
10:00AM EST.
May 12, 2009 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Will that Thursday hearing be broadcast?
Thanks for the info...
May 12, 2009 11:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
An Honor and Thank You for the inquiry. The current information is that the Hearing is scheduled for Thursday, 5/14/2009 at 10:00AM EST.
I have had good success on the day of the hearing:
1) Either from US Congress.gov then, 'Oversight Committee' link and there is usually a live link.
2) Or at the GAP Website, Whistleblower.org or the NWC Website, Whistleblowers.org and POGO.org may have a link, especially if they are expected to Testify.
3) Other possible links are the alternate Web based News Organizations and possibly Youtube.com for an archived version.
Even though I have expressed in an impromptu, frustrated and exasperated firm manner concerns, I am an advocate of GAP, NWC and POGO and especially as in my view, they are one of and/or the most most formidable hopes for the 'Change We can Believe In'. Also, the forthcoming intended testimony is in the well world capable, superb and excellent, Precedent setting first and foremost leading hands of Mr. Tom Devine and Mr. Stephen M. Kohn and Mr. Scott Amey should they testify and siginificant others should they Testify and as necessary, upon the approval of Mr. Devine and Mr. Kohn and Mr. Amey.
Again, humbly and with appreciation, many thanks for your concern and the best of good luck and best wishes within your continued endeavors and for many successful accomplishments and for all.
May 13, 2009 2:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you for your time and consideration.
May 13, 2009 2:27 AM | Reply | Permalink