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Torture Hearing: What Did We Learn?
So, what came out of today's hearings on torture?
- Perhaps the main piece of news came when Philip Zelikow, the former top State Department lawyer, revealed that the memo he wrote offering an alternative view on the legality of torture -- which he says the Bush White House tried to destroy -- has been located, and is being reviewed for declassification. The memo figures to be a hot item when released.
- Ali Soufan, the former FBI interrogator who testified behind a screen for security reasons, made a point that seems to undercut the argument of torture supporters that waterboarding has been shown to work. They cite the interrogations of Khlaid Sheikh Mohamed and Joe Padilla as having used "enhanced interrogation techniques" to produce actionable intelligence. But Soufan pointed out that torture wasn't approved until August 1, 2002, after those interrogations took place.
- Soufan also described in detail the process of interrogating Abu Zubaydah, which he was involved in. He said that when he and CIA officers used legal techniques, they quickly learned valuable information, including that KSM masterminded the 9/11 attacks. But when a contractor came in and started torturing Zubaydah, he quickly clammed up. Overall, said Soufan, the use of torture was "harmful to our efforts to defeat al-Qaeda."
- As for Sheldon Whitehouse, the Rhode Island Democratic senator chairing the hearing, he decried the Bush administration's lies about how the torture program was approved:
We were told that waterboarding was determined to be legal, but were not told how badly the law was ignored, bastardized and manipulated by the Department of Justice's Office of Legal Counsel nor were we told how furiously government and military lawyers rejected the defective OLC opinions.
- Another witness, David Luban, of Georgetown Law, called the Bush OLC memos "an ethical train wreck."
- And of course, Lindsey Graham humiliated himself, badgering a witness with whom he disagreed and citing a now-debunked ABC News story as evidence that torture works.
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Josh
Zachary
'What Did We learn' is what is, I contend, what I have previously mentioned and attached and additionally the following, although my comment are directly for your Article as I did not hear or view the Hearings.
1) It is widely and clearly reported that;
a) The Illegal torture in Egypt resulted in false and incorrect intelligence that was used knowingly as such by the Bush//Cheney//Powell Administartion to wage an illegal War
against Iraq!!
b) It is widely and clearly reported that many FBI Officials and Top Officials contacted the US Executive Branch of our Government, especially including former US Attorney General John Ashcroft with CREDITABLE!! information that would have PREVENTED 9/11/2001!!!!!!!!!!! and was refused by US AG John Ashcroft and seemingly all other Executive Branch Top Members.
I would presume there is and are an abundance of other opinions, allegations and summations that would also concur, although to be brief and in reference, although I will for now only attache, my prior blog comment reply concern.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
------------------------------------------------
This/These so-called US Senate Judicary Committee are seemingly a and/or once again a Despotic, Disingenuous, Dishonest, Deranged, Deceptive, Maniacal and seemingly the 'Same Pack of Lies' and a clear Charade if at the conclusion of Todays hearing that there is not the minimal application to refer US President Obama and US AG Holder to the immediate and direct Attention of US Congressional Judicary Members and Chairman John Conyers 'US President Powers and Its Limitations' 'Impeachment Hearings'.
Also this US Senate Judicary Committee, et all should use all of Its Powers to immediately apply and support the Identical 'Impeachment(s)'.
Today!!
1) Torture is a high crime and inisidious Inhumane Act and also within a Impeachable 'High Crime and Misdemeanor' offense and also irrespective of any alleged illegal//legal//illegal so-called application.
2) Torture is also in violation of all our US Laws, Rules and Regulations. Also, in violation of all our legal and law binding Domestic and International Treaties ecetra.
Lets end the Bush//Obama Administration!!
Lets not continue to proceed with the Obama//Bush//Cheney Law that equals 'No Rights', 'No Access to any proper court of Law', 'No Access to Attorneys//Lawyers' and the continuing of these maniacal, inisidious, horrific inhumane practices, procedures and horrific illegal so-called applications.
Again, today is a good day and an appropriate time for the 'Change We Can Believe In'.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
May 13, 2009 2:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Important additional recollection update!!!!!!!!!
Additionally, please note that I and a DOJ//INS Adjudication Officer directly contacted Senator Kennedy's Office on approximately 5/2002 thru 11/2002 as he was my next chain of Command and he was also Chairman of the Judicary, US Senate Immigration and Naturalization Committee and upon the deliberate, intentional and fraudulent incorrect (full) FEDCIR Court Decisions to dissmiss my #00-3446 and #02-3254 'Whistleblower' Cases. (Incidentally, that may be now used at will against all litigants). Please note that within weeks of my initial Senator Kennedy contact was an official public statement and order and decree that NO Federal Employee may Contact a US Senator or US Congressional Person of their offices.
Seemingly in fact, that US AG John Ascroft order and decree is a 'Impeachable' 'High Crime' and has not been corrected and/or addressed as of today and in the full manner as would be expected.
Also, please note and recall that Senator Kennedy's Office said to me on 11/2002 that Senator Kennedy would not read or hear from me. Please note that the material (Including some of my Whistleblower, case files, MSPB, OSC Correspondence (Beth Slavet!!) I have alleged if acted upon properly would have clearly contributed to the prevention of the horrific tragic events from a seemingly gang of maniacal thugs on 9/11/2001.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
May 13, 2009 3:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sadly and as an additional recollection, Senator Kennedy, former aid, Beth Slavet was the presiding Co-Chairperson of the MSPB, Federal Employee Merit System Protection Board and Immigration and Naturalization Commissioner Doris Meissner was also Chairperson of the MSPB and while my DOJ//INS 'Whistleblower' Cases where Active!! Unfortunatley a seemingly clear and unmistakeable corrupt 'conflict of interest'!!
There is also another and/or additional seemingly crystal clear, unmistakeable deliberate and intentional FEDCIR, Federal Circuit Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit and MSPB corrupt and fraudulent 'Conflict of Interest' and directly within my case files #00-3446 and #02-3254.
Thank you for your time and consideration
May 13, 2009 3:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I learned that Sen. Whitehouse needs to manage his travel schedule better. He did a Major disservice to both the witnesses and the Country by not being able to hole a complete hearing without having to rush off and by allowing the other party to have the last ridiculous word.
May 13, 2009 2:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
i learned that president obama, of whom i've been a big supporter, is actively hindering investigation of war crimes, implicating himself. this sucks.
May 13, 2009 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Important additional recollection update!!!!!!!!!
Additionally, please note that I and a DOJ//INS Adjudication Officer directly contacted Senator Kennedy's Office on approximately 5/2002 thru 11/2002 as he was my next chain of Command and he was also Chairman of the Judicary, US Senate Immigration and Naturalization Committee and upon the deliberate, intentional and fraudulent incorrect (full) FEDCIR Court Decisions to dissmiss my #00-3446 and #02-3254 'Whistleblower' Cases. (Incidentally, that may be now used at will against all litigants). Please note that within weeks of my initial Senator Kennedy contact was an official public statement and order and decree that NO Federal Employee may Contact a US Senator or US Congressional Person of their offices.
Seemingly in fact, that US AG John Ascroft order and decree is a 'Impeachable' 'High Crime' and has not been corrected and/or addressed as of today and in the full manner as would be expected.
Also, please note and recall that Senator Kennedy's Office said to me on 11/2002 that Senator Kennedy would not read or hear from me. Please note that the material (Including some of my Whistleblower, case files, MSPB, OSC Correspondence (Beth Slavet!!) I have alleged if acted upon properly would have clearly contributed to the prevention of the horrific tragic events from a seemingly gang of maniacal thugs on 9/11/2001.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
May 13, 2009 3:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
What Did We Learn?
We learned that one Republican and five Dems give a shit...
Although it was nice that Leahy, Feinstein, and Feingold showed up to make a statement, only Whitehouse and Durbin asked any questions.
I understand why Republicans were afraid to show up... but come on... where the f**k were the Democrats???
Who was missing?
Dems:
Herb Kohl, Wisconsin
Chuck Schumer, New York
Ben Cardin, Maryland
Ron Wyden, Oregon
Amy Klobuchar, Minnesota
Ted Kaufman, Delaware
Arlen Specter, Pennsylvania
Republicans:
Jeff Sessions, Ranking Member, Alabama
Orrin Hatch, Utah
Chuck Grassley, Iowa
Jon Kyl, Arizona
John Cornyn, Texas
Tom Coburn, Oklahoma (Coburn was there briefly but didn't speak)
May 13, 2009 3:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
The list of missing Senators is disgraceful.
May 13, 2009 5:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Slightly OT, but if this guy's dissenting memo was ordered destroyed, what do we think happened to the dissenting memos about WMD in the lead-up to invading Iraq?
May 13, 2009 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
We've got Bush and Cheney in our sights. The smoking gun has been located. Obama, give the order to fire ... hello?
May 13, 2009 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
We learned that the otherwise wonderful Sheldon Whitehouse needs a few lesson on how to run a hearing properly. He allowed Sen. Graham to babble on, ask nonsensical questions, and mock and badger the witnesses.
Then he cut the hearings short so he could catch a plane.
What a waste.
May 13, 2009 5:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
what i learned today -- my senator is an ass.
(the "SC" in my name means "South Carolina")
May 13, 2009 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
A lot of cognitive dissonance from Zelikow here.
If he is going to attack Cheney, Gonzo and others involved in sanctioning torture, will he also attack his old friend Condi Rice and her very close friend George Bush? Or are they the ones eggign Zelikow on?
IF Zelikow really thinks that torture is wrong, and produces unreliable intelligence, then is he going to call for his 911 Commission (which was hugely based on "intelligence" extracted under torture) to be re-opened?
May 13, 2009 5:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's not over till the flat lady (Mary Matalin) sings!
May 13, 2009 8:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Zach - please check your first bullet above: KSM wasn't captured until March 1, 2003, well after torture had been sanctioned and used on others.
May 13, 2009 8:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Digg is quoting British press on genital mutilation done at Guantanamo by the US. If true, waterboarding is just one of the atrocities committed in our name Get all the dirt out.
May 14, 2009 12:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
And no one has ever said that Padilla was waterboarded.
Other EIM's were used on him, but a timeline of when they were used has never been made public.
May 14, 2009 2:04 AM | Reply | Permalink