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Hoekstra: Leaking Classified Info Is Terrible -- Except When GOP Does It

Now this is some chutzpah....

You might remember that a few years ago, Washington's Republicans were all up in arms over the fact that classified information about the Bush administration's warrantless wiretapping program had been leaked to the New York Times. The Justice Department began an investigation into the leak, and congressional GOPers gravely declared what a serious crime this was.

As Rep. Pete Hoekstra, the ranking Republican on the House intelligence committee, approvingly put it in August 2007: "The Justice Department is going after those who violated their oath of office by giving classified information to reporters. Those reporters will be sitting in jail by the end of the year until they reveal their sources."

Violated their oath of office?! Sounds like revealing classified information is pretty serious.

Well, maybe it depends on who's doing it. Today, The Hill reports on a classified intelligence briefing held yesterday by the House intelligence committee -- using Hoekstra as a source:

Hoekstra did not attend the hearing, but said he later spoke with Republicans on the subcommittee who did. He said he came away with even more proof that the enhanced interrogation techniques employed by the CIA proved effective.

"I think the people who were at the hearing, in my opinion, clearly indicated that the enhanced interrogation techniques worked," Hoekstra said.

Rep. John Kline (R-Minn.), a member of the subcommittee who attended the hearing, concurred with Hoekstra.

"The hearing did address the enhanced interrogation techniques that have been much in the news lately," Kline said, noting that he was intentionally choosing his words carefully in observance of the committee rules and the nature of the information presented.

"Based on what I heard and the documents I have seen, I came away with a very clear impression that we did gather information that did disrupt terrorist plots," Kline said.

Democrats on the committee, understandably, are slamming Republicans for publicly disclosing classified information.

"I am absolutely shocked that members of the Intelligence committee who attended a closed-door hearing ... then walked out that hearing -- early, by the way -- and characterized anything that happened in that hearing," said Intelligence Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Chairwoman Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.). "My understanding is that's a violation of the rules. It may be more than that."

Of course, the information that Republicans told The Hill is far less specific in nature than the information leaked to the Times about the warrantless wiretapping program. Still, if something's classified, it's classified. Members don't get to make their own judgments about degrees of classification -- in part for exactly this reason.

As for the substance of the GOP claims about what was learned in the hearing, it's hard to evaluate them without more detail on what crucial information was allegedly obtained through torture. But it's worth noting that few torture opponents have maintained that the practice never obtained any usable intel whatsoever. Rather, they argue that the costs -- in terms of false leads, and damage to our international reputation, among other things -- outweigh the benefits.

That issue aside, we look forward to Rep. Hoekstra's forthcoming declaration that he and his Republican colleagues have violated their oaths of office by leaking classified information. Though given Hoekstra's less than sterling reputation for logical consistency, maybe we shouldn't hold our breath.


21 Comments

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It's pretty rare, one would think, that information is declared to be classified because it would harm the nation for it to be public. Rather, information is declared to be classified because it is perceived to be harmful to someone's political career. Likewise, torture isn't committed in order to gain real information, but because it creates a climate of intimidation. Let's get clear about what's going on with these things.

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Absolutely agree.

Phone-tapping is for snooping on political opponents;

Torturing prisoners is for extracting politically useful false confessions;

Hiding horrible photographs is for protecting higher-ups and their political careers;

etc etc ... usual stuff ... the same in other countries too

e.g. UK; expenses of MPs were hush-hush until a few weeks ago.

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Weren't the Bushies unprecedented in classifying documents?

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You nailed it.

I would only extrapolate the political impact of classified/not classified to ALL policy.

Campaign money is an evil but I firmly believe that you could pay these people $5 a year - as long as they could maintain their frequent TV appearances, swanky (self congratulatory) dinners and naming rights to highways, airports and tunnels - and would still get the same result.

For all the made-for-TV animus that Republicans and Democrats in D.C. produce to our detriment, the same people bitching at each other on TV hobnob, socialize and dine together laughing at the stupidity of the rest of us for falling for it - for so long now.

We need to have a jury duty system for Congress. Every registered voter should be required to spend 1 year of their lives serving in Congress AND make the f*ing $160k that year for doing so. If they wanna be a career politician - leave the current system in place for local/state politics (self limiting and a helluva lot less corporatist due to the limits of State level policy).

I'd also like to get rid of the McMansion townhouse system of housing for members of Congress in D.C.. Let the assholes reside in Army style barrack dormitories for their entire time in D.C. (picture John Boehner crouching at a student desk under his bunk bed every night replying to emails =-)

That way they would be forced to LIVE with their colleagues and would be forced to function with little privacy - nothing like cleaning communal toilets to help you grab a glimpse of the opposing policy view.

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He said he came away with even more proof that the enhanced interrogation techniques employed by the CIA proved effective.

"Proof" ought to be in quotes. You can't trust that silly rag, The Hill.

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We were told over and over again during the Bush presidency that the U.S. doesn't torture. Now our government tells us that "we" used enhanced interrogation methods (their euphemism for torture), and that it "worked". Now torture may work like a charm -- to gratify the feelings of captors that they have "done all they could" in their incompetent attempt to gather information; or to obtain a false link between 9/11 conspirators and Iraq. But General Taguba insists that torture is not a reliable means of getting at the truth. He publicly declared that nothing useful was obtained by employing torture in Iraq.
I would go with the General's statement, not Hoekstra's. After all, Hoekstra wasn't at the meeting.

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I wonder what he was doing yesterday that was more important than an intelligence committee meeting.

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"Based on what I heard and the documents I have seen, I came away with a very clear impression that we did gather information that did disrupt terrorist plots," Kline said.

This is indeed careful wording. He says they gathered information, not how the information was gathered. Others have already said that important information was gleaned without EIT.

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I'm always disappointed when a Muckraker post violates the mission statement by providing muck rather than raking it. Presenting muck in a mucked-up fashion only exemplifies the problem of muck, it doesn't even organize the original muck for proper presentation.

Thank you for admitting that there is a big difference between what the Times "leaked" and what the subcommittee "leaked" to the likes of Hoekstra so that he could "leak" what he did to the public to keep the "politics as usual" game lumbering along as stupidly as ever.

Now personally, I'm in favor of what the Times did, and not in favor of Hoekstra's agenda. But that doesn't mean I'm in favor of TPM mucking it up the way done here. The problem is that you have no evidence that anything classified was improperly shared with 1) the subcommittee, 2) other members of Congress, or 3) the public. So you're just bullshitting about bullshitters, maybe to meet a quota of TPM posts to keep your job, for all we know.

Kline, who was briefed directly, gives the usual bullshit answer which doesn't answer the point of the question in the same way Cheney has avoided the point: There were roughly two ways to get info - ordinary interrogation (make nice, traditional MFM, traditional FBI) and extraordinary interrogation (enhanced methods, outright torture, criminal rendition to other countries,...).

It's not newsworthy that the former achieved good ends in the intel domain. So if the briefing was about both ways to get info, and the info got, ... so what? But if the briefing was about only the extraordinary methods, that could be newsworthy. Since Kline plays it cozy, we can assume either way. Now if you could corner Kline with this point and get something out of him, that would be a worthy use of your rake.


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"Based on what I heard and the documents I have seen, I came away with a very clear impression that we did gather information that did disrupt terrorist plots," Kline said.

One might believe that court would call that hearsay. Kline is an idiot too as are most Republicans.

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"Democrats on the committee, understandably, are slamming ..."


It's interesting that Zachary is not quoting ANYONE from that meeting who came out with a different conclusion.

Wasn't this is big big big deal for so long, the ineffectiveness of torture?

Democrats on the committee, understanding, are running interference because Obama's own government says it works.

And no spin is too far for Zachary Roth.

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I think we should keep in mind that thus far, every significant intelligence success that was been trumpeted by the former administration has been shown to have come from traditional interrogation. The burden of proof is certainly on the pro torture crowd in this respect. Where was the ticking bomb diffused? I still don't see it.

This is hearsay from a guy who heard something from a guy who was in a meeting where they heard stuff from yet another person. It's a pretty safe bet talk smack because it's illegal for anyone to provide details to refute the assertions. Like these assholes have never bald-face lied to us before? Color me unimpressed.

But even granting they got bits of information that turned out to be true; to make a real analysis, they also need to disclose the quantity of bad information they extracted as a result of these techniques. Additionally they should show that the accurate information was immediately actionable or to what extent delays resulted from having to discern the good intel from the bad.

Also along this line, they need to account for any collateral damage (subsequent torture/detention of innocents, erroneous deadly strikes/raids, etc.) that occurred as a result of false confessions. In addition to being subjected to a criminal act; every innocent person abused can be assumed radicalized, and those improperly killed can reasonably be expected to have increased the hostility and recruitment efforts. We need to get a handle on how many American lives were likely lost as a result.

It should be pretty easy to do a comparative analysis of the above data points against the results of traditional interrogations employed in the WOT. But it's really irrelevant. War crimes don't become OK because committing them "works". The fact that it's largely useless is sort of icing on the cake. Not only did they lead us down the road followed by the most brutal regimes, but it was *also* counterproductive.

"Effective" is defined by how a policy advances American goals, not by fragmentary bits of intel gleaned.

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Nice. A few quibbles --

"War crimes don't become OK because committing them "works". "

That feels off somehow, maybe it's the first two words which seem excessive.

" "Effective" is defined by how a policy advances American goals, not by fragmentary bits of intel gleaned."

PNAC had specific goals which WERE American goals while its members dominated the Executive Branch.

"every significant intelligence success that was been trumpeted by the former administration has been shown to have come from traditional interrogation"

Depends on the time frame. al-Libi was tortured into giving false info and that was trumpeted in the early days. It's certainly not something they are crowing about NOW, now maybe they are eating crow instead! :-)

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"PNAC had specific goals which WERE American goals while its members dominated the Executive Branch."

I like it. If one considers that the goals of PNAC and AIPAC were to foster a perpetual war between the Christians and the Moslems for the benefit of the Israelis, the past eight years become crystal clear.

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I liked this part: "then walked out that hearing -- early, by the way -- "

And that violated some committee or Congressional rules??

We should remember that "closed door" doesn't necessarily mean "classified" in a strict sense.

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No it means he missed the second part, where it was conslusively proven that the first part was wrong and it actually doesn't work.

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But you just chastised the Demos for not making this point! ... or at least reporters for not saying Demos ...

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Every now and then Lalo just does the right thing: he calls 'em like he sees 'em. Objective-like. Rare occurrence, but it DOES happen!

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dont the fucking lame spineless democrats have an outrage bone on their worthless bodies

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From the same assholes who bought us Valerie Plame

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Come on no one's really shocked.

These are republicans. They will do anything to win.

In fact they'll leak classified info from their hones in Kuwait where they went to avoid paying taxes.

These are the republicans after all. Their only patriotism is to the dollar.

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