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Panetta: Too Dangerous To Release Torture Tape Docs

Do we have yet another case of the Obama administration mimicking its predecessor's notorious penchant for government secrecy?

The CIA argued yesterday that Bush-era documents detailing the videotaped interrogations of detainees should not be released, citing national security concerns, reports the Washington Post.

The videotapes, which depicted harsh interrogation tactics, were famously destroyed in 2005. As part of a wide-ranging lawsuit, the ACLU is seeking the release of CIA emails discussing the tapes, handwritten notes taken after reviewing the tapes, and a photograph of one high-value detainee, Abu Zubaydah, among other items relating to the tapes.

CIA director Leon Panetta argued in a statement that releasing the material "could be expected to result in exceptionally grave damage to the national security by informing our enemies of what we knew about them, and when, and in some instances, how we obtained the intelligence we possessed."

Panetta wrote that the "disclosure of explicit details of specific interrogations" would give al-Qaeda "propaganda it could use to recruit and raise funds." He called it "ready-made ammunition."

An ACLU lawyer told the Post that Panetta is in effect arguing: "The greater the abuse, the more important it is that it should remain secret."

This is hardly the first time that the Obama administration has disappointed open-government advocates, especially on issues relating to the war on terror. Last month, the president said he opposed the release of photographs that show harsh interrogation techniques at Abu Ghraib and other military prisons. And the administration has several times invoked the state secrecy privilege to argue for the dismissal of lawsuits on warrantless wiretapping and renditions -- despite the fact that, as a candidate for president, Barack Obama criticized President Bush for invoking the privilege too frequently.

We're going to try to get a read on how this new position taken by the CIA fits into that record, and will let you know what we learn.


27 Comments

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"The greater the abuse, the more important it is that it should remain secret."

So it would seem.

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/the-rest-is-silence/

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Obama is beginning to remind me of our once-great nemesis Adolf Hitler.....soaring rhetoric coupled with actions much less than acceptable. Let's put a small mustache on him and see how he looks.

Oh, my God! Adolf in "blackface"!

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Consumed with hate much lately?

Pathetic

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Not hate at all.

Hitler had a gift for rhetoric seldom seen; he spoke and the German people were in the palm of his hand. While Obama's rhetoric is absent the kind of hatred which Adolf generated, it does inspire the sort of devotion which he set in motion.

Obama, unfortunately, displays a divergence between thought and action that is amazing; and his defense of totalitarian concepts (such as secrecy and "state privilege" is inconceivable in a democracy).

I speak as an 84-year old World War II veteran; not from some textbook or news report. And, I have to confess, I supported and voted for Obama from the primaries through the general election (though there was no acceptable alternative).

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I realize Hitler is very real to you these days, but how is that the best parallel, given that you admit Obama is in fact rather different? Why not compare Obama's rhetoric to MLK Jr, or JFK instead?

The divergence between thought and action is the difference between today and tomorrow - it's called acting in the moment and thinking ahead or planning for the next moments, by reasonable people. Or in your case evidently some people have their thinking stuck in the distant past while acting foolishly in the present.

just sayin' ...

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ronbon,

from another WWII vet who fought his way across Europe, I think Obama is more like Clinton. He's articulate, very intelligent, very likeable, someone who drew millions and millions of Democrats and others to him and someone who was a target for vicious right wing attacks....BUT, who sold out most of those Democrats by getting in bed with the Wall Street Bankers, the boys in the Corporate board rooms and all too supportive of the likes of ex Repug Senator Phil Gramm and the Republican party. We're still paying for that Clinton/Republican/Corporate alliance.

Obamas affinity for some of the Bush programs is like Clinton's affinity for all things Corporate.

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"informing our enemies of what we knew about them"

What does that really mean?

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Compromising intelligence assets - you know, much the same as outing Valerie Plame.

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Actually you can thank Wilson for that. Heh.

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Still fighting reality, I see.

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"Do we have yet another case of the Obama administration mimicking its predecessor's notorious penchant for government secrecy?"

No. We have another case of a loaded rhetorical question.

Just because Bush did something doesn't make it wrong. Every president maintains national security secrets. It's a fact of life. Obama and the CIA have determined that releasing additional torture material right now is adverse to American security interests because: 1) we are in the process of trying to repair our image in the Muslim world generally; 2) our soldiers are on the ground in Af-Pak trying to destroy al Qaeda; 3) our allies in Pakistan are in the midst of a crucial military offensive against the Taliban that is critically dependent upon support from its Muslim populace; 4) we are still militarily engaged in Iraq, yet another Muslim country; 5) Obama is attempting to negotiate a comprehensive mid-east peace plan that will likely depend upon the continued viability of moderate Islamic governments.

So you have all those national interests militating nondisclosure to be weighed against, what, exactly? Really. Why must this material be disclosed and disclosed right now? So we can flagellate ourselves? So we can vilify the previous administration? So we can undermine our Muslim allies and allow our enemies to incite further violence against our troops? So al Qaeda can recruit more suicide bombers?

Sorry. I am firmly with Obama on this.

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+1

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The only real use for these documents is as evidence in legal proceedings. Simply doing a document dump to the public will serve no interest other than that of the headline writers.

There is value in releasing these documents - and the additional photos we know are out there - in the proper context. That context has nothing to do with either sensationalism or self-flagellation.

Therefore: Co-sign.

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wbgonne you are wrong. this is all stupid, disengenuous BS. if we are worried about angering Muslims, and giving AQ recruiting advantages we would stop killing innocent people with missiles, and bombs, and stop occupying their countries.

If you want to live your life based on what bin laden wants, you are a chicken shit coward, and you let the terrorists win. Bin Laden's main beef is the US military stationed in the "holy land". So if your primary function in life is to appease AQ, and quake in your boots, then we should get our army bases out of the Middle East.

Instead, we are fed this ridiculous argument that "the photos are not groundbreaking" and at the same time they are the worst EVAH, and will lead to the deaths of army members. Well, all the more reason not to torture people. Instead, we are forced to listed to idiots say: the lesson we should learn is that covering up crimes is the solution. The solution is not to torture people, and anybody with half a brain should get that.

Now Obama, who campaigned on change, open govt, and criticized Bush for exactly what he is now doing - becoming the cover upper in chief. The man in charge of enforcing the laws, instead spends his efforts to fight the law, fight the courts' unanimous decisions. Obama wants to undo the FOIA law that has been in place for 40 years, in the spirit of keeping voters scared, ignorant, and using the safety of the troops as his backstop.

Without knowing what our government does, how exactly are you supposed to have an informed vote? Transparency is a need for democracy, and Obama is fighting it tooth and nail.

Also, these photos are evidence of all the lies from torture apologists, and the liars who say a few bad apples. They will impact public opinion about accountability for war crimes, which will help us to rejoin the international community as a civilized society, not some rogue dictatorship.

but for some, when Bush did it the secrecy was wrong, but IOKIYABO

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You're an embarrassment, Panetta. That weak-ass worthless argument sucked shit when Bush used it. You couldn't come up with a phony reason that sounds a little more convincing? Why not just claim executive privilege?

All that al Qaeda could learn from those documents are things that they've been well aware of for years. The only people who would learn something new would be the American public. Best to keep them in the dark, right?

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And I'm not the Director of Central Intelligence or anything, but wouldn't our national security be compromised only if these torture methods are ones we still employ?!?

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And I think you could also argue that if the US continues to conceal evidence of torture and refuse to prosecute--or even investigate--those who were involved, it sends a message to our friends and enemies that nothing has really changed.

It says that, whether or not Obama uses torture, he's set a precedent for any future Bushes or Cheneys who want to use it: Don't worry about prosecution. Nobody will come after you. Just claim it had to be used in the defense of the nation and that presidents are above the law, as are any people they chose to designate as also being above the law.

What's it going to take to end this crap?

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Looks like anyone who takes over the CIA gets a bad case of bullshititis, doesn't it ? This is a no-brainer for me. Either you believe in freedom or you don't. Recent history has painfully demonstrated the fact that the longer such information is withheld the worse it is when it comes out. Either we begin to treat the majority of the populace (in the USA and elsewhere) as sufficiently mature (or potentially so) to handle the ugliness of human behavior and, thereby, to begin to use this as a starting point to improve our behavior and our image, or we don't. Unfortunately it's as easy as that. Remember Christ: the truth shall set you free, wasn't that about it ?

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Panetta wrote that the "disclosure of explicit details of specific interrogations" would give al-Qaeda "propaganda it could use to recruit and raise funds." He called it "ready-made ammunition."

While I'm certain the Bush Administration classified documents to protect their cabal from prosecution for war crimes, I have to agree with Panetta on this.

While I'm no fan of the "state secret/national security" defense, the president has made it very clear that the release of photos and documents related to this disturbing chapter in American history would put our troops in danger. And unlike his predecessor, I'm inclined to trust Obama on this.

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If the videos are "too dangerous" to release, then clearly crimes have been committed. WHERE ARE THE PROSECUTIONS?!

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"the Obama administration has disappointed open-government advocates"

I believe the fact that we are not prosecuting known torturers of Muslims is much more viable as being dangerous... than showing pictures of the acts. Not prosecuting sends a clear picture that this so called Christian nation condones and protects those folks who torture other religious folks who MAY or may NOT be guilty of heinous crimes... something we have never done to Christian enemies.

Not making these pictures available protects the folks who have committed crimes against humanity and other criminal behavior. Showing these may get more Americans to see the light and may just give more incentive to promote the equal justice we seem to want every nation in the world to follow... except us, of course.. IMHO

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For those that claim, imply or advocate to be interested in this TPM Article concerns, there is a website know 'your-rights.com' has an excellent documentary video on this exact concern even though it is entitled 'Bush linked to Kennedy Assassination'. (scroll down a few inches on 'your-rights.com' main center page to 'Bush linked to Kennedy Assassination').

If this documentary is viewed in its entirety (patience), it should leave the viewer with a general glimpse towards a greater comprehension and understanding of these exact concerns within the recent past 50 plus years.

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"Too big to fail" means the trust-busters need to do their job.

"Too dangerous to release" means the legal system needs to do its job.

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Petraeus said to release the pictures, to "lance this boil" before people thought the pictures were worse than they are. Guess the Administration won't be marching Petraeus in front of Congress this week.

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Which is a better recruiting tool for Al Queda:

(1) Fabricated and imaginary mental images which are used to describe pictures of torture so unbelievably cruel that allow them to be seen by the public would cause worldwide violence (which seems to be the approach taken currently).

(2) Actual pictures which will be shocking to see when first released being released by a new leader in a country which has renounced the practices of its former leaders and sought to punish those responsible for the actions depicted.

Seems to me that Al Queada will benefit from these pictures as a recruiting tool until about a year after they are released, it doesn't matter when that is.

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Releasing past torture photos or docs would give Obama the opportunity to reject and denounce the actions of the past and say "the US does not stand for this." IMO, such a move would only help to further repair relations with the Muslim world rather than implying "you can't handle the truth." Of course al-Qaeda will use it as propaganda. But for Panetta to (astonishingly) call the info "ready-made ammunition" is to give it too much power already.

Frankly, the argument that we cannot release this info because it will harm the troops is an insult to the very troops they claim to be protecting. Admin officials are simply using the troops as an excuse to protect Bush officials from their past offenses and they are also using the troops as an excuse to protect the prosecutions of tortured Gitmo detainees.

There's no doubt that this is a gigantic clusterfuck, but the way out is not more secrecy. It's owning up to our past mistakes, laying them out on the table and moving forward. That's what the world admires.

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You can't win (stop the killing)with dishonest and hidden secrets.
makes you the same as the evil one and it give them strength

How does it work to torture then protect the ones doing it.
What the hell are we afraid of the truth for.

  1. Because we are hiding rapists
  2. Murders
  3. God forbid worse?
  4. Or are we as criminals hiding evidence of our own crimes?

No way will this help the "war"

Is this kind like the war on drugs
Hasn't worked yet
Unless you like the large profits(Mexican cartels not street drug dealers)for selling hard to get drugs
or you have stock in prison services

If you haven't been around the world lately most people are afraid of the USA
They think we kidnap anyone we want or will kill civilians with our missiles if they are even close to a so called suspect.
We be teaching respect?

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