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Report: Before Congressional Run, Scarborough Represented Killer Of Abortion Doctor
Over the last week, MSNBC has led the cable-news charge in covering the George Tiller murder -- and the questions it's raised about how implicated the wider anti-abortion movement is in the violence. Rachel Maddow, Keith Olbermann, and Chris Matthews have all covered the story -- Maddow with particular distinction. But until today, one MSNBC show has been conspicuous for its reluctance to touch this major story. That would be Morning Joe, hosted by Joe Scarborough.
This morning, Scarborough publicly addressed the story, for what appears to be the first time. But what he talked about was his own past ties to an anti-abortion killer. And his comments -- which seemed designed largely to minimize those ties -- appear to conflict with other reported facts about the incident.
In 1993, David Gunn was killed in Pensacola, Florida, and Michael Griffin, an anti-abortion zealot, was accused of the crime. (Griffin was later convicted and jailed.) And Scarborough -- who the following year would run for Congress as a Republican abortion foe -- made several court appearances, pro bono, on Griffin's behalf.
Speaking this morning on Morning Joe, Scarborough didn't mention having represented Griffin. Rather, he said he was asked by Griffin's family, who knew his own family, to find a lawyer for Griffin. ("The family hired me and they wanted me to find him a lawyer, to make sure he didn't use the Bible as his self-defense in court," he said) He implied that a number of people expressed interest in taking on the case in order because of its political implications ("for all the wrong reasons") and that he was wary of such people. Eventually, he said, he found a "progressive, pro-choice" lawyer who nonetheless understood that everyone has the right to counsel. Scarborough went on to talk about the need to return to civility in American politics.
But when the Village Voice dug into the episode for a cover story on Scarborough last year, it found evidence suggesting Scarborough had sought to play a large role in the case.
Despite Scarborough's claim that he was merely trying to find a lawyer for Griffin, the paper reported:
Griffin already had a court-appointed attorney, and when that attorney made a motion to substitute Scarborough at a June hearing, Scarborough said: "I understand that I come in this case if another attorney is not brought on board, that I will be responsible for representing Mr. Griffin at trial."In fact, Scarborough began representing Griffin shortly after the March murder and didn't find a trial lawyer, Bob Kerrigan, until late June, when he wrote a letter withdrawing from the case.
And Griffin himself told the the Voice, in a letter written from prison, that he signed papers, brought to him by Kerrigan and Scarborough, that would have kept Scarborough on as co-counsel, until a judge rejected the plan. The Voice continued:
According to Griffin, Joe told him "several times" that he would represent him at trial and that he "had three friends still in law school who would help him," adding: "I have an exact memory on this point."
And there's another way in which Scarborough's explanation of his involvement appears shaky. He said this morning that Griffin's family was friendly with his family. (Similarly, he told the Voice that he did it as a "favor for a friend," saying that his then father-in-law was a friend of Griffin's father. And he told the New York Times during the 1994 campaign that Griffin was a family friend.)
But, despite the paper's strenuous efforts, no one would confirm that to the Voice. And Scarborough admitted to the paper he hadn't seen Griffin's father since then. In addition, another lawyer interviewed for the job by Scarborough said that, as he remembered it, "some people in Griffin's church ... knew Joe, and that's how they got in touch." As the Voice points out, that church "was deeply involved in the abortion-protest movement."
Of course, Scarborough would go on to win the House seat the following year, with crucial backing from anti-abortion activists. His biggest single donor, according to the Voice, was the National Right to Life Committee, which gave him $15,210, and his second was the Eagle Forum, founded by anti-abortion hardliner Phyllis Schlafly.
But it makes us wonder: Did Scarborough, planning a run for Congress from a deeply socially conservative Florida panhandle district, sought to get involved in the Griffin case as a way to associate himself with, and build support among, the anti-abortion movement? In other words, was Scarborough's political career launched in part by exploiting the dangerous strain of right-wing extremism that views the defense of an accused killer of an abortion provider as a cause celebre?
At the very least, it's worth asking...

















I guess having defended a cold blood murderer "pro bono" is viewed in some Southern districts as a good platform to run for office ...
That was a GREAT story!
Keep the rakes going until all the conservative hypocrites are finally exposed!
June 5, 2009 5:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agree. Very good highlight.
June 5, 2009 5:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
As Jon Stewart said, Morning Joe Doucheborough.
June 5, 2009 11:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right, because in our system of justice, we wouldn't want cold-blooded killers getting legal representation.
Equal protection under the law applies to everyone. Even the people we don't like. If there's substantive proof that Scarborough callously used a murder trial to advance his political aspirations, then he should be tarred and feathered. Short of that, a lawyer working pro bono - ie: for free - for a defendant and working to find him a competent criminal defense attorney is not something for which we should vilify him.
June 5, 2009 6:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
NOBODY said that COLD-BLOODED KILLERS (or warm- blooded ones, for that matter)should not get legal representation.
The fact that Joe S. used his "pro bono" services to a murderer as a banner to get campaign contributions and votes from fringe extremists is what appears very alarming to me, as you figured out in the second paragraph of your response.
June 5, 2009 7:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right. But there's no evidence of that presented. There's speculation based on circumstance and conjecture raised in a poorly-crafted story in The Village Voice. And without actual, substantive evidence, then all we have is the same bullshit rumor-mongering we despise when they pull it.
June 5, 2009 7:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Evidence? Talk about a strawman argument.
The point is that Scarborough's current version is at odds with prior reported facts, and that there is a plausible case to be made that it was in his political self-interest to associate himself with the extremist segment of anti-choice politics. Nothing more is alleged.
It's entirely reasonable to present what's known and to try to resolve the possible contradictions. That is all that Zach Roth is doing.
June 5, 2009 11:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nothing more is alleged?
A man who knows and admits he is unqualified to try a capital offense is alleged to have angled to represent the defendant purely for political gain - to, in effect, risk a man's life for nothing more than the sake of his own ambition, and you don't see that as an incredibly serious accusation to be lobbing at someone without one single shred of proof?
If 'all Zach Roth is doing', as you say, is trying 'to present what's known' and 'resolve the possible contradictions', then Zach should probably have actually looked into more than just the substandard work The Village Voice regularly churns out. Let's take a look at one of their claims from the article, shall we?
The first two abortion doctors murdered by pro-life assassins were shot to death on their way to Pensacola clinics, both during Joe Scarborough's first congressional campaign. In 1993, Dr. David Gunn was killed, and Michael Griffin was accused of his murder.
Scarborough's campaign would not have begun in March-June of 1993. Thus, Gunn's murder did not happen 'during Joe Scarborough's first congressional campaign.' In fact, given the time-frame of most congressional campaigns (especially 15 years ago), it's quite likely the trial - a year later - was already over by the time he began his campaign.
Scarborough represented Griffin pro bono, attributing it, to this day, to a relationship between his then father-in-law and Griffin's father—a relationship that neither would confirm despite numerous calls by the Voice. It is, by any measure, a strange "favor for a friend," which is what Scarborough calls it, though he says he hasn't seen Michael's father, Thomas Griffin, since.
Ok. Griffin's father is a friend of Scarborough's... ex-wife's father. They divorced in 1999, 10 years ago. And he hasn't seen the guy since the murder proceedings! ZOMG! All the divorcees *I* know hang out with their ex's parents!
And 'can you help find my son a lawyer? Your father-in-law said you might be able to help' is a strange favor? I've gotta say, I've got friends who are fairly reputable lawyers within their own circles. If my sister got into legal trouble in their neck of the woods? You bet your ass I'd be asking those friends of mine if they knew anyone who could help. As it is, my family sends all their computer-illiterate friends to me to fix every stupid little problem with their machines. You know someone who can help your friend, you tell them 'hey, see what you can do, please?'
Scarborough attempting to stay on the case, btw? Pure sleight of hand for Griffin's sake. "No, Mike, it's ok, I'll try to be there. We're gonna file this paperwork, see?" even though he knows the judge won't approve it. Why? It lets the client feel like Kerrigan's trying to keep Scarborough, who his father told him was ok, around. This is basic customer-relations crap. I've dealt with it in assembly-floor inspections, medical credentialling offices, landscaping offices, and call centers. You have the guy the client is more at ease with poke his head in every now and again, give the guy a wink and a smile.
The Voice article Zach is using as his only cited source is shite, like most articles in the Voice.
Scarborough comes out and says that he encountered a number of people looking to use the case as a political issue. Who wanted to get into it to make their chops. Interesting fact of human nature: you never, ever, try to make people think about undesirable motives like that if they're your motives, because when you bring them up, that gets people looking for them. Just like Zach is by the end of his piece.
Neither Zach, nor The Village Voice have anything more than hearsay/gossip to base their salacious hypotheses on. This is not unusual for the Voice. I expect better from TPM.
Wanting to see evidence of actual wrongdoing before you begin to draw potentially libelous inferences of malfeasance and amoral gambling with a man's life is not a straw man. It is a necessary restraint on the irresponsible junior high school gossip-mongering that TPM and other websites rightly take the modern media to task for committing.
Again, I can't stand Joey Scar. I wish to hell he'd get off the air. But this bullshit approach... this isn't just wrong... it's fuckin' weak, man. Just weak.
June 5, 2009 11:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Raising questions is a "bullshit approach" for a journalist to take? Seriously?
"Libelous inferences"? Are you familiar with the holding of New York Times v. Sullivan?
In that 1964 landmark case:
In view of the pertinent rule of law, your hyperbole is stunning.
June 6, 2009 12:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why? Zach's political leanings are obvious from his associations, and contrary to Scarborough's. He's blatantly critical of Scarborough, and many on the left want Scarborough off the air. Since you're the one saying we don't need actual evidence in order to cast aspersions, then isn't that a clear indication of Zach's malicious intent toward Scarborough?
You can't declare one man to be 'fair game' for a low standard of evidence without declaring all men to be so.
No, nevermind. It's already obvious that the sarcasm of it will be lost. Scarborough enjoys the same protections against these unsubstantiated rumors that Zach does. And both should be so protected. Just because we don't like Scarborough doesn't mean we can hold ourselves to a lower standard when dealing with him. If anything, our inherent antipathy toward the guy should compel us to strive for a higher standard of proof, to avoid tripping ourselves up.
Yes, it is perfectly alright for a journalist to raise questions in the context of a story. And when they do, they should also seek to answer those questions, not to simply cast sheer conjecture into the wind. It's not like Zach got that far and then had the paper ripped out of his hands so it could go to press, after all. A reporter reports, he does not simply speculate. If Zach wants to write opinion pieces, then that's fine, but he's listed as a reporter-blogger, not a columnist-blogger.
Once again: TPM takes others to task when they see it, and rightly so. They should not then engage in the same behavior.
June 6, 2009 12:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Evidence is the proof necessary to convince a trier of fact at trial. It's a term that is not applicable in this context.
Despite your attempts to distort what Zach Roth has presented, including your serial misuse of legal terms, you have failed to vitiate Mr. Roth's post or his methods.
As I suspected, you have an agenda. At least you have finally acknowledged that.
Good night.
June 6, 2009 1:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Evidence is the necessary demonstrable positive indicators to take a hypothesis, which is speculation, to the level of theory, which is informed model. Here, there is nothing demonstrable, nothing that can be substantiated. Thus, it is irresponsible to leave pointed and directed inferences that cannot be backed up with (wait for it) substantive evidence.
If I have any 'agenda' it's in expecting TPM to not engage in the behavior they condemn in others. What about yours?
June 6, 2009 3:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
You have no clue. Later.
June 6, 2009 4:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
So you've decided to end this exchange with na na nana na ? My brother can beat up your brother ? I dislike Joe as well; however, IF what he says about a relationship between his father-in-law and the accused's father is true, then enough of what follows makes enough sense to make me hesitant to flat-out accuse the guy of a one-dimensional motive. Maybe there was at least a two-dimensional motive, something which appears with sickening regularity among most members of our vaunted political class.
June 7, 2009 11:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, I just got bored.
June 8, 2009 10:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I thought the Unabomber was put away for life in a high-security prison but it now looks like he has been given access to the Internet to post his ramblings (and his new screen name is BillMcD!)
June 8, 2009 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dude, you so would have been better off going w/Stevens or Cantor or any of the innumerable incoherent blatherers with an (R) after their name, all proud of their twittering. The Unabomber's a luddite - he doesn't like modern tech, remember? If you're gonna settle for mockery instead of actual counterpoints, at least mock in a way that makes sense. ;)
June 8, 2009 9:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Joey the Scar stepped into the case when the defendant already had counsel. That doesn't exactly support a theory of benevolent professional responsibility.
Did he have political motives? Is water wet?
June 6, 2009 2:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
There isn't enough evidence to form any credible theory. That's rather my point. Griffin had a court-appointed attorney, yes. His father apparently had no faith in that court-appointed attorney and through a number of intermediate steps that may or may not be anywhere from 1 to more than 1, contacted Scarborough for help.
Do either you or I know how experienced and compentent the public defender was? Without that information, and a hell of a lot more besides, we can't draw meaningful conclusions about Joe Scar's motives at the time.
At no point am I saying that a year and more later, he didn't find a way to turn it to his advantage. My point is simply that there isn't enough substantive evidence to determine whether or not he went into the situation seeking a later political advantage, which is what Zach's invited speculation regarding.
There simply isn't enough there to engage in anything more than bald-faced rumor-mongering and out-and-out guesses - which will invariably be more indicative of our own biases than of any hard facts regarding his motives and state of mind... because we haven't been given any to work with.
June 6, 2009 3:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Don't forget the possibility of a tacit quid pro quo deal -- represent our guy and our people will fund your campaign.
June 5, 2009 10:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Or, more likely, from the vantage point of someone who works in this field, family or friends of Griffin didn't have confidence in his court appointed attorney given the nature of the crime, and turned to Scarborough for help.
Scarborough, not being a criminal defense attorney -- in a potential capital case -- agreed to help but with the understanding that he would attempt to find an experienced defense attorney to represent Griffin, and would substitute in himself until a properly qualified attorney could be found. That would account for the clarification that he understood that if another attorney could not be found, he would represent the defendant.
Courts would not normally let an attorney substitute in for an appointed attorney simply as a "placeholder" for a Lawyer-To-Be-Named-Later.
As for the fee, since Scarborough wasn't intending to handle the case himself, but simply to assist in finding a qualifed defense attorney, why would he take a fee? The money for defending Griffen was saved for the attorney later hired to actually handle the defense.
June 5, 2009 6:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
a RATIONAL scenario, thank you for the breath of fresh air. I am not a in any form a JS fan; but, fair is fair.
June 6, 2009 10:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
So, what's new?
This is what you get on TV news, day in and day out, when you have literally dozens of political operatives posing as "journalists."
The state of the new media in this country is beyond critical. It's hopeless.
June 5, 2009 6:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
So why was there a dead woman found in his office?
June 5, 2009 7:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Griffin already had a court-appointed attorney, and when that attorney made a motion to substitute Scarborough at a June hearing, Scarborough said: "I understand that I come in this case if another attorney is not brought on board, that I will be responsible for representing Mr. Griffin at trial."
In fact, Scarborough began representing Griffin shortly after the March murder and didn't find a trial lawyer, Bob Kerrigan, until late June, when he wrote a letter withdrawing from the case.
This is something I really, really dislike about The Village Voice, and have for quite some time: sloppy writing, and poor editing. Can you spot it?
Scarborough is substituted in 'at a June hearing', which means as far as the court is concerned, he's not representing Griffin until June. Then the Voice tries to sensationalize it taking him less than 4 weeks to find a trial lawyer to step in.
The case is a slam-dunk. Griffin didn't flee the scene, never denied his involvement, and told the police 'We need an ambulance.' The jury took all of 3 hours deliberating.
And it only took 4 weeks, while at the same time preparing a case - because if he couldn't find someone by the time it went to trial, he's gotta do it - to find an experienced trial lawyer, someone the family feels ok with, someone the defendent feels ok with, who's willing to work for what the family can afford (or possibly for nothing, have we turned up that detail?), and is willing to take the case?
Keep in mind the defense actually used in Griffin's trial wasn't that he didn't do it, but that the murder was actually the responsibility of the larger view: that a local anti-abortion leader's method of indoctrination drove him to extremism.
That's an incredibly radical defense for 15 years ago. That is, in fact, the same indictment of Operation Rescue's leaders and others in the anti-choice movement that Maddow and Olbermann and others have made this week. And that was the defense used by the lawyer Scarborough found.
The Voice tells us (though Zach doesn't give us their basis for concluding this) that Scarborough represented Griffin, at the outside, from March to June. 4 months, at most. The trial started the following March. So that's 8 months after Scarborough leaves the legal team.
Without seeing what makes the Voice assert that he began representing him in March (and not just began giving the family advise, which is also possible), we have only the court paperwork that brings him on in June. And that brings us back to 4 weeks. 4 weeks to find an attorney who then spends 8 months preparing to indict the anti-abortion movement itself. That's some fairly significant context that's been omitted here.
And then the question 'worth asking'... did Joey Scar callously use a politically-charged murder trial to springboard his ambitions?
Let me rephrase that in a slightly different way...
Do you have any actual evidence that he did, or just speculation to impugn someone you don't like? I'll be frank, I don't like the guy, either. But I haven't liked a lot of people. I don't tend to go spinning up salacious and malicious gossip to cast aspersions on their past, though.
Without clear and demonstrable evidence of such amoral activities, to speculate about them is irresponsible, and wrong. It is exactly the kind of half-informed inference we have excoriated the Right-wing for spewing.
June 5, 2009 7:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
What kind of evidence would you need? If you found a guy splattered all over the sidewalk underneath an open window on the 10th floor, wouldn't it be reasonable to say that he jumped? Or if you found that famous trout in the milk, wouldn't it be reasonable to accuse the farmer of diluting his milk? There are people in jail right now who have been convicted on less evidence than is presently available in this case.
June 5, 2009 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, if I found a guy splattered underneath an open 10th story window, it would not be reasonable to conclude he jumped. It would be reasonable to conclude that he might have come out of that window. He might have had something heavy dropped on him from that window, which was then removed. If he did come out of that window, then he might've jumped. He might've fallen. He might even have been pushed.
What kind of evidence would I need? How about any to start? President Obama dealt with Blago. By your standard, we can infer all manner of corruption because the two knew one another. We can infer that Obama supports the goals of the Weathermen because he never overtly disavowed Ayers. Etc, etc, etc.
It's all bullshit, and totally unproven. How about this for evidence: A single piece of paperwork saying 'hey, Joe, if you want funding, here's a cause to get involved with'. Or even any single person stepping up to say 'You know, Joe told me when he was considering taking this that it would make a great line-item for his political resume.' Or maybe if he hadn't been put on the defensive over his involvement in the case by the Times during his campaign?
There's no evidence. Without evidence, groundless speculation is irresponsible, and hypocritical.
June 5, 2009 10:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
bill, you're right on. like you, i got no use for this scarborough douchebag, but i can't say this is a real story. yet.
June 6, 2009 10:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think the evidence presented was the campaign contributions.
If your primary funding is from the evangelical-money-machine, then it stands to reason you would do their bidding.
With all your wonderfully described trees, I believe you ask us all to fail to see the forrest.
June 6, 2009 8:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, what I'm asking is you not put the cart before the horse.
There is a difference between 'Joe Scarborough sought (and received) contributions from these donors because his actions a year earlier had provided him with a foot in the door' and 'Joe Scarborough took those actions to get a foot in the door with these donors.'
It's the difference between my saying to my friend Jennifer 'hey, I'm going to be in Dallas for a day next month, any chance I can crash on your couch?' and cultivating a friendship with her for the sole purpose of providing myself with crash-space in Dallas.
Again, that Scar turned the experience to his advantage isn't in question. The question, as Zach posed it, is whether he went into this seeking that advantage - and there's just nothing presented that can inform us one way or the other about that.
June 6, 2009 10:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well he did not offer help to this person because he deep-down believes that even cold-blooded killers deserve legal representation....as if the murder of an abortion provider had nothing to do with it. Anybody who ever watch Joe for 5 minutes on TV would agree about that.
So why did he stick his neck out for this murderer?
And why should we not wonder about how it profited him so handsomely to do so - especially when Joe's money came directly from the misogynist evangelicals who's interest the killer furthered with his violence?
June 6, 2009 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sure, we can wonder. Wondering about things like that is human nature. Drawing conclusions without a single shred of any substantive evidence, though, is wrong.
Did Joe Scarborough get involved in the case as a political move? We don't know. That's as far as you can take it with any sort of definitive statement. Is there enough to cause us to wonder? Sure. Is there plenty of room for denial? Almost certainly. But is there enough information presented here, or in The Village Voice to actually draw a reliable conclusion?
No, there is not. And because there is not, we are best served by remaining open to further information, rather than subscribing to any premature conclusions.
And, added to that is the whole hypocrisy angle. Once again: We bitch about it when the right-wing does it. If we complain about them using unsubstantiated inference to pose leading questions, and label it a baseless smear tactic, then we can't go around doing it ourselves and pretending that it's somehow nobler or fair.
June 6, 2009 3:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
You said....."Equal protection under the law applies to everyone. Even the people we don't like. If there's substantive proof that Scarborough callously used a murder trial to advance his political aspirations, then he should be tarred and feathered. Short of that, a lawyer working pro bono - ie: for free - for a defendant and working to find him a competent criminal defense attorney is not something for which we should vilify him."
First, this is not a court of law.
Next...what we are saying here is that Joe intervened on behalf of a cold-blooded killer because he supports the killer's political intentions. Not because he believes in civil justice for all. So besides these two motives can YOU suggest any plausible others? Even one? And for believability's sake - try making a motive up that also explains the big donations that followed shortly after Joe's help - and why Joe has never helped any other killers like this.
The evangelical anti-abortion movement is political. That makes the killer a domestic terrorist by most uses (and abuses) of the term these days - no? And when I ask you why Joe intervened to protect a domestic terrorist you say we can only wonder. Here, we are saying that any reasonable person looking at the circumstances would easily come to the same conclusion. Especially since he later voted against Democratic & Republican bills protecting clinics.
So he does the bidding of the evangelical anti-abortion movement and shortly thereafter gets paid by them. Your argument is that we can not legally (in a court of law) infer intent. You say we can only wonder...
June 7, 2009 8:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ok, taking this by the numbers...
First, this is not a court of law.
No, it's not. I never said it was. But you'll note that as you quoted, I wasn't speaking about this as a court of law. I was speaking about jumping to conclusions and making assumptions on a man's motives without having anything that can be substantiated on which to draw those conclusions. After all, one doesn't go into a court of law hoping the jury will 'vilify' the bad guy, which is the word I used. You go in trying to convict.
I'm saying we should not be engaging in a campaign of spreading rumors and allegations we cannot back up with anything more than 'you see how this looks, right?' I'm saying that as human beings, our natural inclination - indeed, our biologically developed instinct - is to take incomplete information and find patterns in it that let us infer conclusions. Our natural inclination is also to trust our pre-existing biases, because they've gotten us this far without being eaten by a lion.
Those natural, biologically programmed inclinations serve us very well in a large number of pursuits. One place they do not, and have never done so, is in seeking truth. This is why the scientific method calls for rigorous testing of any hypothesis - not tests designed to prove, mind you, but designed to disprove the hypothesis - before it can properly be called a working theory. Our natural inclination to believe the ideas that fit with our pre-existing biases and beliefs must be cast aside. It can do nothing but lead us astray.
So besides these two motives can YOU suggest any plausible others? Even one?
It's right out there in the article. It's a powerful motive, and the one that, given the potential for this case to have been an anchor around his neck, seems to me to make the most sense:
Griffin's father knows a guy. He goes to his friend for help, because his friend has mentioned that his son-in-law's a lawyer. The friend then goes and talks to his son-in-law. He's not asking him to represent the guy, 'you don't have to go to trial for this guy, just, you know, see if you know somebody. His father thinks the court-appointed lawyer's crap.'
So he gets involved, mostly to get his father-in-law off his back. And maybe the court-appointed attorney really is an overworked guy with only slightly more experience than Scar in court. So he decides he's gonna try to find this guy a better option. Why? Because his wife wants him to do it. It'll get the guy's father off her dad's back about 'why hasn't your son-in-law found anyone yet?'
And there's your motive for putting his name on the paperwork and then spending a few weeks looking for another lawyer: to placate his wife and make his own life a little easier at family functions over the summer.
And for believability's sake - try making a motive up that also explains the big donations that followed shortly after Joe's help - and why Joe has never helped any other killers like this.
I would like to point out, before I address this, that this question not only goes far beyond Zach's framing - which was 'why did Scar get involved?' but conflates two things. This is like asking for a theory on the development of the universe that also - for believability's sake - explains why the universe should develop in a way that's just perfect for us. First, it's not perfect for us, 99.9999% of the universe would kill us instantly if we were there, and second, because we're a result of it, rather than it being tailored to us. Same basic thing here.
So, you're Joe Scarborough. A year ago, you had this stupid, time-consuming thing you had to do to avoid sleeping on the couch all summer long. Now you want to run for Congress. Who do you hit up for money?
That Scarborough, a year later, was able to use his involvement to get donations and favorable treatment from the evangelical anti-abortion crowd isn't in question. I don't think even he would hesitate to say that yes, he was able to turn this incident to his advantage in fundraising. But that proves nothing.
I have been fighting an encroachment of bamboo in my back yard. There's an adjacent property where they refuse to do anything about containing it, which means all of my efforts are ultimately futile. However, five years ago, I worked for a landscaping company. I didn't get the job at the landscaping company in order to kill bamboo. I got the job because I needed to pay the bills. That I learned quite a bit about how to remove bamboo, and used that knowledge to my advantage this spring, in no way affects - or indicates - my motivation in entering into that job situation.
Turning past experience to present advantage is something we all do, all the time. You drive a certain way because you know how traffic patterns flow. You take your car to a certain mechanic because the last time you had trouble, he treated you right.
Ultimately, what he did later can't be taken by itself as an indicator of his intentions when entering this situation. In order to be able to reasonably draw that conclusion, we need additional evidence that supports it - we need substantiation from something. Otherwise, it's just blue-sky speculating.
Especially since he later voted against Democratic & Republican bills protecting clinics.
So he does the bidding of the evangelical anti-abortion movement and shortly thereafter gets paid by them.
Turn this one around. He does something that could totally screw up his career - which this could have - and finds a way to turn it to his advantage. Except he's a Congressman, not a Senator. He's gotta get re-elected every 2 years, and he has to do it with a fairly small voter pool - one congessional district, not a whole state. That means he's got to go back to the people who donated to him last time. In effect, by taking their money in that first election, he's beholden to them. He's their little bitch from that point forward.
The scenario there is not that he did the bidding of the evangelical anti-abortion movement and then got paid. Rather, it's that he relied on their money, and after getting it, did their bidding. Which is pretty much the norm in politics, on both sides. Contributors aren't paying you for what you've done, they're paying for what you will do for them.
Your argument is that we can not legally (in a court of law) infer intent.
No. My argument is that as rational beings, we do not have enough evidence to draw reliable conclusions. Period. My argument has nothing to do with court or the law. It is simply thus:
In order to reliably draw conclusions which have a high likelihood of being correct, we need a sufficient set of observed data which supports those conclusions in real, substantive ways. The more corroborating data we have, the more confident we can be in our theories and conclusions. This is the scientific method, the primary method by which human beings have sought the truth for centuries, and the only methodology for seeking truth that has produced real, demonstrable, and consistently reliable results. Drawing conclusions prematurely has been shown to be unreliable, time and again.
This has nothing to do with the law, or the courts - beyond that our current legal paradigm for seeking the truth through evidence uses the scientific method, as well.
June 7, 2009 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
The issue is "GOP in the Morning" or, I guess, "Morning Gop" not whether a defendant is entitled to an attorney. Congressman Scarborough said this morning that he was "an insurance lawyer" at the time, certainly not in a position to represent a defendant charged with murder and I strongly suspect he had no such intention to do so. While he is pretending to oppose murders of abortion doctors in his current incarnation, it appears that this may be a disguise for tv purposes.
With the Air America version of Rachel's show on at 5am (a bit too early for me), and Imus' current radio show bogged down by too many commercials and other diversions to be useful, I am having trouble finding something as a wake me up background while I get ready for work. The Gop brewed by Starbucks is fading fast for me.
June 5, 2009 7:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Because Comcast refuses to carry MSNBC in my area I rarely see much of Joe and his morning crew so I guess I'm not yet as angry at him as some. That being said this story make me feel much the same as I did when the Right went after those willing to risk their careers to defend those In GITMO. All the rest is way too much in the so-called weeds to matter to the masses.
June 5, 2009 8:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
This undeterminable script reader has more to offer from his closet.
What does he have on msnbc that keeps him there?
Look, dead girls in his office??
How does he explain that one?? Have heard his "statement" but does being on TV make your lies ok?
Just asking.
So, joeman.Ever heard of the truth?
Can you say what you really think or has that been deleted.
Funny guy.
All these media people are funny.Like cartoons.All in some fantasy.
What if no one likes joe anymore?Where will he go?
Or is joe just a nice kinda simple person?
Semi like that "plumber".
Does joe know where he is going? Or, more important, where he is?
June 6, 2009 12:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Joe is notoriously soft on domestic WASP/C right wing nut terrorism, his head fasteners went kaflooey over the HSD internal security threat assessment, done by the Bushies, but left on the shelf the better to impact the Obama administration.
June 6, 2009 1:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Some good reporting here Zach! Thanks for taking this one on. I am amazed at what is said on Morning Joe, without being challenged! The only time Scarborough's show is any good, is when he allows Lawrence O'Donnell to come on.
June 6, 2009 11:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Scarborough is a Constitution defender, a law and order, family values, good christian, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, take responsibility for your actions, Republican. As such he has volunteered over the years to work pro bono for a number of other murderers regardless of the circumstances.
Why, I even read a report that suggested he offered legal help to Charles Manson and a hit man for La Cosa Nostra.
June 6, 2009 1:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
The reason this is such a big deal is because it explains the short shrift that this doochebag has given this story. I can't stand this man. I watch his show each morning hoping to see someone come on and stand up to him. Last week Katrina Van Den Heuvel did a great job. Joe's idiot side kick and as I've taken to calling her, the Star Search spokesmodel Mika is a complete moron who allows this tool to scream at her, repeatedly cut her off and is generally condescending to her. I have no sympathy for this idiot. Scarborough is basically a duplicitus clown. He crowed for weeks when the "Dick and the Daughter" were all over the airways claiming that 2 classified memos prove torture worked but, when Senator Levin came out and said that he's seen the memos and they prove nothing of the sort, Doucheborough ignored this story completely. He yelled and Carlos Watson a few weeks ago and Carlos didn't defend himself well as far as I'm concerned. He's one of those ignorant types that, if you're winning the argument with facts he just yells over you to try and drown out the truth. All Republicans are MORONS!
June 6, 2009 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Zbigniew Brzezinski to Joe Scarborough
(Re: Mideast Crisis): " "You Have Such a Stunningly Superficial Knowledge of What Went On That It's Almost Embarrassing to Listen to You"
http://bucknakedpolitics.typepad.com/buck_naked_politics/2009/01/zbigniew-brzezinski-to-joe-scarborough-re-mideast-crisis-.html
June 6, 2009 3:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Last week Scarborough began one of his frequent phrases when the Star Search Spokesmodel said something he disagreed with. In his usual loud and overbaring voice he said "That is stupidest thing you've ever said on this show. How can you say that when...blah, blah, blah, etc. He actually yells at people like he's chastising one of his kids. His wife sent him 3 consecutive text messages which read:
Calm Down!
Stop Yelling!
and finally,
Shut Up!
I too love those mornings when Lawrence O'Donnel is on because he doesn't take any of Joe's garbage and especially, Pat Buchanan's crap. I honestly don't know why MSNBC feels the need for foist this clown on it's largely liberal audience. This asshat belongs over at faux news where "fair and balanced" have never met!
June 6, 2009 2:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Joe has become a very bad cup of coffee in the morning. The absolute dregs. He only talks about his book, his Chevy Suburban, and Ronald Reagan. He insists that America is right of center. Joe will soon flame out. If someone disagrees with him, he fills the guest's spot with his drivel. That he would would represent a right wing assassin is no surprise.
June 7, 2009 4:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
A very bad cup of coffee indeed, given the show is now a Starbucks-sponsored whore.
June 7, 2009 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I also do not get the necessity of Morning Joe. Three hours, wazzup with that? He's a right-wing sellout & a pompous ass. As soon as anyone begins to shut him down or make an opposing point, he butts in & force feeds his slanted view down their throats. He makes me turn off the TV. Hello MSNBC. Buchanan & he compound to equal an even bigger pile of sh*t. And, is Mika really her fathers daughter? Daddy puts Joe right in his place but Mika just sits back & takes the lashings. How not liberal.
Pseudo defending the killer to earn brownie points to get elected sounds just about Joes' speed as does the unexplained dead woman thing.
In other words, this disingenuous preppy punk needs to go!
June 7, 2009 11:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just another rightwing domestic terrorism sympathizer.
June 8, 2009 9:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
What really gets me, is how Scarborough thinks he is getting away with portraying himself as some kind of centerist Libertarian, just because he says a few bad things about the Bush administration. He is actually a bigger kook than Pat Buchanan. At least he will admit that he and his sister are a couple of Nazis.
June 8, 2009 10:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Do not take this as a defense of Scarborough but don't take a lot out of the info above. First, however he was introduced to Griffin - someone did it, family church whatever - frequently family/friends will do whatever they need to do in order to find private counsel, rather than have someone represented by the public defender (I do not know anything about Florida Public Defenders - they may be great or may not be - don't know so I can't comment on the motivation).
As for indicating as he appeared that unless other counsel came in he would represent the accused through trial - means nothing - standard pro forma. That's always the case - once you are in you are likely in for good unless replaced by another attorney.
Finally, the murder took place in March and Scarborough was replaced in June - 3 months is nothing in terms of a crimial case - there are shoplifting cases that are continued for 3 months - in other words coming into the case in month 3 is essnetially the beginning.
Scarborough is many things noxious - just don't read as much into this situation - a lot of it seems to be ordinary course of business in criminal law - in other words not something out of which much will grow.
June 9, 2009 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, Scarborough's involvement in the case got his run for Congress financed . . . Follow the donor base.
Yes, everyone requires a vigorous defense AND some things are indefensible.
June 9, 2009 1:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seems clear that Joe found some advantage for getting money and attention by involving himself while it was convenient.
Morning Joe belongs on Fox News. At least then Rachel, Keith, and Chris would take him to task for some of the bs he spouts.
June 11, 2009 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
And of course Joe is now going around saying that Conservatives running for national office should drop social issues like abortion and gay marriage because those should be for the states anyway.... right Joe; because that is how you got elected, right?
June 15, 2009 12:49 PM | Reply | Permalink