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Yet More Obama Secrecy: Won't Release Info On Visits From Health-Care Execs
And the beat goes on....
Here's the latest example of the Obama White House mimicking its predecessor's reflexive preference for secrecy over openness: the administration has turned down a request from a good-government group to release the names of the health-industry execs who have gone to the White House to discuss health-care reform, reports the Los Angeles Times.
Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington had sent a letter to the Secret Service asking for the names of the 18 industry execs. But in response, the Secret Service said it considered the names to be presidential records, and therefore not subject to public disclosure laws. That was the argument used by the Bush administration to justify not releasing the names of the oil industry execs who were part of Dick Cheney's Energy Task Force in 2001. CREW now says it will file suit.
This isn't a new position for the Obama White House. Last month, in response to another request from CREW, it refused to release information on visitors from the coal and energy industries, citing the same argument over presidential records. CREW is now suing for those records too. The White House also turned down a request from MSNBC.com for a list of all White House visitors since President Obama took office.
CREW seems to already have information on some of the health-care industry chieftains. In its letter to the White House, reports the LAT, it asked about visits by Billy Tauzin, the president of PhrRMA, Karen Ignagni, the president of the top health insurance trade group, William Weldon, the CEO of Johnson & Johnso, and J. James Rohack, the AMA president, among others.
When President Obama took office, he promised a new era of openness and transparency. But on many secrecy issues, his administration has not significantly differed from President Bush's.
Josh
Zachary
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" as Lord Acton wrote. For Obama to support, maintain and even expand secrecy initiated by the Bushco regime this early in his Administration indicates Obama’s pledge of transparency was a lie. I guess he and his want their goodies and the Republic be damned.
July 22, 2009 10:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. That's right, I'm cool!
July 22, 2009 10:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is b/s. As critical as the health care reform is did anyone think he is doing this just to perhaps get more folks on his side.
Give this guy some credit please.
July 22, 2009 10:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Then why can't he release their names? Nobody is questioning his meeting with them. We just want to know who. And we have a right to know who. The point is the kneejerk secrecy, and for that I give him absolutely no credit.
July 22, 2009 11:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
He covered this last night and pointed out that all the reporters who are saying this were there taking pictures of everyone there and he also said last night that his office posted their names on his website or were doing it as he gave his conference.
This is much ado about nothing. Get a life folks.
July 23, 2009 10:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Go to the WH website. The names were posted last night. Get your head out of your conspiracy ass and do some reading instead of posting idiotic crap.
July 23, 2009 10:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
It should be obvious by now that the only reason the names were posted is because of the reaction. How would I have known to read the White House website, since the article plainly states that they refused to publish the names?
In the future, kindly refrain from criticizing people, after the fact, for failing to anticipate the administrations embarassed reversals, before the fact.
July 24, 2009 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is BS. As critical as energy policy is did anyone think that BUSH was doing this just to perhaps get more folks on his side?
This BUSH some credit, please.
July 22, 2009 11:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Like I've been saying, hate the game but don't hate the player.
July 22, 2009 11:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's right. Don't hate CHENEY, hate the game.
July 22, 2009 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Every day he just proves Cheney was right.
If Obama doesn't surrender these Bush-era powers, they will never be surrendered. They'll have to be taken away.
July 22, 2009 11:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good timing, Zach -- I was worried that the president would be able to refocus the debate back on the need to get health reform passed in the face of increasing opposition.
July 22, 2009 11:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, I'm sorry. I thought it was OBAMA who said you can do two things at once. You know, as a dig on McStain. I'm pretty sure that Snowbama can work health care and defend the indefensible at the same time.
July 22, 2009 11:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama, can work on two things at once. Almost all Presidents can. (Bush II was just unusually dumb for a President) However,...
The public can't. They focus on one thing at a time. If we want the discussion to be about health care then that is what we need to talk about. Any other so-called controversies are counter-productive.
July 22, 2009 11:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
p.s. I bet the LA Times reporters were happy to be able to rush this one out there in record time. With Bush and Cheney, it took months and years for the story to gain traction, now we can get this just in time for fighting health care.
Monday, the Washington Post breathlessly pushed "Obama sinking poll numbers" story on the top of the front page -- I'm sure there were some sleepless nights to get there out there in time. Whew! A Monday morning hit on A1, just in time for a big week on health care? High fives all around.
Seems like a full court press to derail health reform by vested interests. Good job, Zach.
(And particularly astute work as well -- Obama's "secret meetings" seem so relevant here, since Obama is the obviously the one who is calling for delays and watering down of this bill and opposing a public option. Nice catch!)
July 22, 2009 11:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
The rules haven't changed just because we agree with him politically doesn't mean the rules have changed. It's that simple. He should release the names, and live up to his pledge of transparency.
July 22, 2009 11:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ah screw it, sorry. Just ignore the first sentence.
July 22, 2009 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Which is more important? Providing health care to millions, or providing names to CREW? Is this the fight we need to pick with the WH right now??? IS this the story TPM needs to push on its top page right now? I'm sure the GOP would love to have *this* discussion for the next two weeks, not why they oppose health care and a public option.
Even on the merits, this is lame. This reads like a CREW press release, not a TPM one. The WH says they are still reviewing this. But apparently not fast enough for CREW. Is that news?
Also, the logic of Zach and David doesn't make sense. Is Obama the one standing in the way of reform? Perhaps some muckracking about the Blue Dogs and Gang of Six who want to torpedo health care would better serve the public.
Cheney's secrey with the energy companies was suspicious because the policies were overwhelmingly favorable to them. In this case, the WH agenda is at odds with the industry.
Cheap and glib stuff that makes less sense the more you think about it.
July 22, 2009 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, is this the same Obama that promised a new openness in health care reform brought to you on cspan as a knock on Hillary in the primary? Now he can't be bothered to release the names of the folks they met with? Nice.
July 22, 2009 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Djamo, you're still bitter?? I guess since Hillary failed at health care, you'd rather have Obama too? I see.
July 22, 2009 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
He covered this last night and pointed out that all the reporters who are saying this were there taking pictures of everyone there and he also said last night that his office posted their names on his website or were doing it as he gave his conference.
This is much ado about nothing. Get a life folks.
July 23, 2009 10:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
Apology accepted.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0309/Streaming_live_Healthcare.html
July 22, 2009 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sorry... that you are so gullible :)
that streamed session was PR. It's not where the real work is done. When the White House got the industry to agree to cost-saving measures, that wasn't televised. He'll, comgressdoesn't evenknow the full details of the agreement. The private meetings with tauzin et al is where the real work is happening and they won't simply reveal who they've met with.
This is not transparency on healthcare reform. It is not transparency in TARP. That's not bitterness. It's the truth.
July 22, 2009 3:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hear what you are saying, but your beef is more with the media's handling of the story.
I'm not in a froth about it, or calling him OBush or whatever. I would just like to know who the select few stakeholders are that have been invited to the White House to discuss policy that will affect many many millions of Americans.
July 22, 2009 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with you. But where are the dates in this story, or the LA Times one??? When did these meetings take place? It's weird, there aren't any dates.
I get the impression these meetings were like a month ago, and CREW just doesn't want to wait for the WH to review it's policy.
July 22, 2009 1:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
If that's true about the dates, then this story is more about the media framing, I grant you that.
July 22, 2009 1:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
He covered this last night and pointed out that all the reporters who are saying this were there taking pictures of everyone there and he also said last night that his office posted their names on his website or were doing it as he gave his conference.
This is much ado about nothing. Get a life folks.
July 23, 2009 10:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly! Don't place attention on the people who are trying to obstruct this, go after the President who is fighting harder than anybody for it to get passed. So what are we supposed to believe, that Obama is trying to obstruct healthcare?
July 22, 2009 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Again, good point, TPM and others can be criticized for their handling of the whole HC reform debate.
But what about the underlying issue? Are we just supposed to shut up and fall in line, or can we ask our President to let us in on the process, rather than creating his own version of the Cheney Energy Task Force? How are the Health Industry execs who went up to the WH any different than the Oil Execs who met with Cheney? As long as he keeps their names secret, they aren't. If we knew who they were, and what they were saying, maybe we could fairly evaluate whether their interests line up with our own.
July 22, 2009 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I read some of these posts and I feel that the posters have turned the economic meltdown into President Obama's 9/11 in that everything indefensible or anathema to the Constitution is excused.
July 22, 2009 11:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Don't worry Rectal, your reactions fit right in here with all the drama. No doubt Obama should release the names and no doubt that Obama needs to work harder in order to back up his claims during the campaign to bring/ensure transparency when it comes to reform.
However I sympathize with many of the comments and posts which echo my thoughts on health-care legislation. Basically the MSM and much of the print media is basically begging Obama to step up and define what he wants the Health-bill to look like. Last time I checked legislating reform is under the Congressional branch of government but if you are to believe all the reporting it seems quite obvious that many business (COC, National Org of Hospitals), lobbyist for industry and politicians themselves are reluctant to have any meaningful change to the system. I mean fuck Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart has even stepped up to the plate! So what does the MSM and the politicians really want, they want Obama out front leading the charge and they want to take him on but the American people are being deceived. Some form of national health-care has been proposed by presidents as far back as Teddy Roosevelt, yet it only seems after horrible incidents (depression/WW II) did any meaningful progress happen on Health-care reform. Truman tried and failed, Nixon tried and failed, LBJ reformed a little (and he was a powerful SOB in Congress, Clinton tried and failed and now we have Obama. It is clear that the Presidents intentions alone won't get health-care reform done, that is up to Congress and if any of the blame of our current system can be placed, it falls squarely on two major parties Congress and the Health-care community. Of course this does not mean that either of these parties only contain obstructionist and sabotuers, surely there are many who want a better system, but I echo the comment on TPM's front page yesterday, "If our government can not come together to solve the current unsustainable crisis we have on health-care now (with the last election being fresh in many minds) then I believe that US may be a failed democracy.
As for the transparency issue from this article maybe yesterday's comments on health-care echo many who fear that our current system is dysfunctional and broken.
July 22, 2009 12:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
He should not release the names. This is the whole problem with our party. It's like insisting that Obama play by the campaign finance rules because he can raise more money than his opponent.
Meeting with industry executives to discuss health care reform does not mean that Obama is some sort of crooked politician. Refusing to release the names of those he met with does not mean he is some sort of crook, either. By refusing to release their names, Obama helps ensure that the industry officials provided honest advice. This is particularly the case if Obama promised them their names would not be released.
Should the Supreme Court have to televise the conversations the justices have with their clerks? Should every federal agency have to disclose the names of every industry official that has met with every federal employee? It's ridiculous. This is a non-story being pushed by people who want to destroy health care reform. Stop.
July 22, 2009 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Honest advice from industry "officials"? That's truly hysterical. Sort of like a harbor seal asking a great white shark for survival tips, or investing with Bernie Madoff, or ... the analogies are endless.
July 22, 2009 3:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
is that your position on cheney and the energy execs/lobbyists, too?
secrecy does not make lobbying more honest. quite the contrary.
July 22, 2009 7:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is some justifiable frustration to be found here, but the hyperventilating in the comments is getting annoying.
Yes, the WH needs to knock this off. And if they can't be troubled to release these names because of the sensitivity of the negotiations, then do it sooner rather than later after the bill is passed.
But no, the parallel to Bush/Cheney does not hold up and using it just marginalizes the argument. Is Obama creating a special "Health Care Task Force" composed almost entirely of health care execs to create an entire policy? No. Is Obama meeting with several powerful constituencies who are inherently hostile to his agenda? Yes. Might Obama sell out some principles to these goons to get a bill passed? Possibly. But the last question is really the most relevant to why we need a list of names, but it hardly amounts to Cheney level indecency.
And to those who can't remember past a few months, don't believe for a second that Obama is relishing all the goodie new powers he inherited from his predecessor. His first day in office included an executive order reversing Bush's order on classifying presidential records. This was extraordinary for a president to rescind a power of secrecy that would've applied to himself.
Read the order here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/ExecutiveOrderPresidentialRecords/
Keep some perspective, guys, and get a grip. And yes, this controversy is a distraction from the message of the day.
July 22, 2009 12:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, Christ! This is getting silly.
David Kurtz just updated the story with the following:
"Late Update: It's an especially painful continuation of Bush policies since candidate Obama promised to let CSPAN in to cover the creation of a health care bill and his campaign website still promises transparency in meetings between White House staff and outside interests."
Does anyone else remember the freaking live-streamed breakout session on health care last March?
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0309/Streaming_live_Healthcare.html
You'll never hear me say that I agree 100% with the WH decisions or that my image of the first year of the administration exactly matches the reality. But what's with talk of personal pain and anguish?
Here's a question: if this bill sinks, how many progressive news outlets like TPM will be kicking themselves for not devoting more energy to the industry ties to Blue Dogs or obstructionist freshmen Dems who have been delaying the process? How about a media analysis of cable TV hosts and newspaper editorials that have been distorting the facts?
All of these angles would be more productive than this side-show.
I hate to sound like such an Obama shill in my comments, but this is getting out of hand.
July 22, 2009 12:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am pretty sure most of us can do two things at once, too...supporting reform while (reasonably) trying to keep the White House honest should not be beyond folks' capabilities.
OK, well, some of us.
July 22, 2009 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not sure if this comment is an "amen" or a "screw you," but just in case the argument is that we should be hounding this transparency angle b/c we can do two things at once, let me state the following for the record.
Each day the pro-reform coalition spends attacking each other or distracted on something less than the policy message is a day that the industry consolidates itself and a day that the delayers gain ground.
This is a campaign. And in campaigns, we all prioritize goals and push aside smaller differences until after the election, or whatever it is were striving for. Health care is the goal now. Everything else either contributes to delay or defeat.
July 22, 2009 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I will just mark you in the "not able" column, then :)
July 22, 2009 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ha! Or maybe as the Prez says, it's not about me. If I believed that the news cycle could handle two things at once, I'd be singing a different tune.
July 22, 2009 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
if obama wants to control the message/news cycle, keeping visitor logs secret is his mistake. keeping them secret (instead of keeping his promises) is what creates the story. no amount of complaining about the story changes that.
July 22, 2009 7:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
All of the angles you cite are right on target, and deserve more time in this and in other forums. But leaving aside the Media's tin ear and fat head in covering these things, isn't transparency a vitally important part of the "change" we all hoped Obama would help us deliver?
July 22, 2009 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, and I agree for the most part. However, I think at this critical moment in the health care fight, we need to prioritize our energies (see my comment above).
My impression of Obama's commitment to transparency is a mixed bag, and in some cases disappointing. But you'll never hear me say that we've made no progress in the last 6 months. That's why some of these overreactions are off-target. Plus, Obama bought a lot of good will, in my opinion, with his Day 1 executive order. We'll have to judge how he changed the culture of secrecy further into his administration. These things sometimes take time, especially when there's an agenda to push.
Right now, the fight is for health care. That's where it ends for me, at least this week.
July 22, 2009 1:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm OK with what you are saying, because I found myself saying it many times during the campaign. Let's not miss the forest for the trees, I guess.
July 22, 2009 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
He covered this last night and pointed out that all the reporters who are saying this were there taking pictures of everyone there and he also said last night that his office posted their names on his website or were doing it as he gave his conference.
This is much ado about nothing. Get a life folks.
July 23, 2009 10:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
There is some justifiable frustration to be found here, but the hyperventilating in the comments is getting annoying.
The only hyperventilating you'll find in these comments comes from those who, in a stunning about-face from 12 months ago, attribute dark, evil motives to everyone from CREW to TPM to the LA Times for daring to suggest that a candidate's promises of transparence be honored. CREW isn't doing anything different from 12 months ago. Neither is TPM. The only thing that has changed in the last 12 months is the occupant of the White House.
July 23, 2009 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Off-topic, but more on-topic than this crappy TPM headline:
http://mediamatters.org/research/200907220012
July 22, 2009 12:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Slightly off-topic, but still relevant. For TPM, it's not a matter of focusing too much on setbacks but getting caught up in the third-tier stories or letting impurities take on a larger than life size.
July 22, 2009 12:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's right.
July 22, 2009 12:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
The goal is not to be a distraction to this incredibly important debate. I happen to to believe transparency is critical in actually getting an effective reform enacted.
July 22, 2009 1:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Overall, though, wouldn't you say that the process has been pretty straight-forward? The plans in place mostly contain elements that were hashed out in detail through two years of intense national campaigning. We've been debating more or less the same thing for 15 years. We know who the players are, where the money is, and where most of the politicians stand. The Prez is giving news conferences, hosting unfriendly town halls on ABC with the health industry fully represented.
Most of the shadiness is coming from delay-and-defeaters and the industry special interests.
Compare this to what we're used to and I'd say we're pretty clear on what's in store, barring last minute surprises.
July 22, 2009 1:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with that. In this HC reform process and overall, Obama's committment to openness has been pretty good.
It's just hard to keep the alarm bells from going off in my head when I hear about Corporate Execs having secret WH meetings. Not that there's anything corrupt or wrong about the meetings, or people advocating for their interests. It's just that they are representatives of Corporations. Though they may legally be defined as "persons", Corporations can't vote, and they usually aren't looking out for you and I, unless their bottom line and our self interest happen to converge. So I get worried when they have this access at the highest levels, and we can't even know who they were. All the secrecy does is spawn suspicion and discontent among people like me, who would give my right arm, leg, a lung, kidney or anything he asked to see this President succeed.
If it's not National Security that protects the identities of the attendees of these meetings, then what the heck is it?
July 22, 2009 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, I am losing hope, myself. The polsters frame the question in such a way as to assure a negative response and then the nitwits, er...networks run with it.
Obama had better do his magic tonight, or the repubs will succeed in killing reform the same way they did it so many years ago. I am disgusted, and getting very discouraged. Obama needs to string that bunch of holier-than-thou blue dogs up by their ears and let them know that if we win on health care, Dems will stay in power. If we lose, the whole country is lost.
Picture this:
Palin/Cheney (Liz, that is) -- I can actually see it with the ignorance that abounds.
July 22, 2009 12:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not giving up hope even amid waves of frustration. The fact is the reform opponents, that includes the press, are throwing everything they have at Obama right now because they have to. The obstacles to success are getting much more attention than they probably deserve, but it's designed to crush morale. I refuse to let that happen.
While the WH is still pushing and the costs to Democratic failure remains higher than the risks of success, we're still going to get this done.
Don't think of the news conference tonight as a hail mary pass--it's more like the next play in the drive that began with Obama's new media push this week.
July 22, 2009 1:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
These kinds of articles...scare the public into believing that President Obama is going to end up passing a Health Care Plan that will be harmful to the average household and citizens...that again there is some sort of a "secret plan" that will give even more money and power to the Insurance Executives and screw the consumer (like Cheney's secret energy commission)...is exactly why the support for Obamas Health Care Plan reform is "slipping", why trust in Obama's plan is fading...do your selves a favor..stick to the facts, wait until the final plan is available to digest befor you start squawking the "sky is falling" and scaring people with your "but, wait, what about this!!?, "Be afraid, be very afraid of government secrecy", you just can't trust the government!!!"....lets talk about "knowns" like Corporate Health Care Insurance Executives manipulation, profits and secrecy instead..
July 22, 2009 12:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hardly a day goes by that I don't see a headline that tells me Obama is getting to be more like Bush/Cheney gang every day.
July 22, 2009 12:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
And that is exactly what Obama's enemies want you to think, maybe even some of his allies want you to think this way. Either way the MSM is pushing two things about health-care: Slow downs and how this bill is utter crap. I have been reading about health-care issues at least as far back as the beginning of the campaign, what the hell was Congress doing? You think they did not know this might be coming? Is it a surprise that Obama wants to do health-care reform after Presidents as far back as Teddy Roosevelt were asking for some sort of Public Health-care? What is amazing is that our system seems inheriently built against any sort of fast change on a major issue, with the exception of waging war. That we do quick, with haste and ask questions later, maybe.
July 22, 2009 3:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Josh,
My comment wasn't referring to health care per se, it was to his keeping the health care meeting participants identities secret. Skuzball Cheney was raked over the coals for doing the same thing with his energy pals. My comment also referred to his adopting so many Bush policies regarding the Presidency, the 'war on terror' and his reluctance to investigate the Bush/Cheney years, not to mention his backtracking on 'don't ask don't tell.'
After supporting Obama with time, labor and money during the campaign I don't like him anymore, I see him as a Judas Goat.
July 22, 2009 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry to hear that but I am willing to listen to your complaints about Obama's seeming similarities to Bush. Can you please tell me with the context included how as you say, ". . . to his adopting so many Bush policies regarding the Presidency."
You have been on this site for some time and I have usually found that your insights provide for a good game of discourse but my perception of Obama is quite different than yours.
Thanks for the comment.
July 22, 2009 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Josh,
much, but not all, of what I get is from Glenn Greenwald of Salon.com and Johnathan Turley who comments on Olbermann's show.
the secrets act, escalation in Afghanistan, preventive detention, discouraging investigations into illegality during the Bush/Cheney years to name a few./.
and per Glenn Greenwald;
"...Obama wants Congress to change FOIA by retroactively narrowing its disclosure requirements, prevent a legal ruling by the courts, and vest himself with brand new secrecy powers under the law which, just as a factual matter, not even George Bush sought for himself."
This sounds like the retroactive immunity for giant telecoms who illegaly spied on American citizens during the Bush years.
Under Bush, half the country was trained to recite all sorts of dangerous propositions about how important it is to vest The President with all sorts of powers to keep us safe, how vital it is that he keep things secret to protect us from the Terrorists, how we can trust in our leaders to exercise in ways we don't understand because we know he's good at heart.
And now, with Obama, a significant portion of the other half of the country is being trained to recite the same things.
So, Obama IS acting like Bush in some ways.
July 22, 2009 4:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
He covered this last night and pointed out that all the reporters who are saying this were there taking pictures of everyone there and he also said last night that his office posted their names on his website or were doing it as he gave his conference.
This is much ado about nothing. Get a life folks.
July 23, 2009 10:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
The executive, no matter who is president, is not going to cede power back to Congress that Congress has willingly given up. If Congress wants the people to have unfettered access to the White House visitor logs, as the people's representative, it needs to pass a law to that effect. The Republicans who ran this place from 2000-2006 were astoundingly short sighted. Apparently they just figured Republicans would be in charge forever. Now that the shoe is on the other foot they are howling in the wind. Hoist on their own petard, says I...
July 22, 2009 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
it was wrong when cheney did it and it's wrong when obama does it. what's worse is that obama explicitly promised to end these types of practices.
i have been very disappointed in obama's continuation of state secret claims, transparency as to who is visiting the WH, executive authority for indefinite detention and refusal to investigate bush's criminal activities in the WH.
i'm glad TPM is calling him out on the visitor logs.
i want health care reform as much as anyone, but that doesn't mean giving obama carte blanche to backtrack on campaign promises and continue to press bush's absurd secrecy claims.
simply because i agree with most of obama's agenda and i want him to succeed does not mean we can overlook areas where he deserves criticism.
constructive criticism is healthy and the republicans are certainly incapable of providing it.
ultimately, criticism over this is not going to derail healthcare reform and it's important to provide push back where obama deserves it.
visitor logs are public information. being president means being accountable to the public. the american people have a right to know who their elected officials are meeting with.
candidate obama agreed with that sentiment.
July 22, 2009 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're full of crap.
Here is what Cheney was doing: going to the energy companies and trying to ascertain how much money they would need from the federal government to ensure that we continue relying almost exclusively on oil and coal as our natural resources.
Here is what Obama is doing: going to the health care companies and asking them what it would take to obtain their support for a health care bill that:
a.) insured everyone;
b.) provided the public with a viable option ; and
c.) reduced America's overall health care spending.
What Cheney did was much different than what Obama did. Until those of us on the political left understand this, Obama will fail. He needs us to distinguish his policies -- designed to bring people up -- from Cheney's policies -- designed to keep large corporations up.
My hunch is that you guys are all just a bunch of Red-Staters that are hijacking the site. It's too bad because this approach is harming the democracy.
July 22, 2009 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
So anyone who disagrees with you is a RedState troll?
I would respectfully submit that it's you who's full of crap.
July 22, 2009 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Beneath the caustic tone was a good point:
Obama's plans are at odds with the interests of these insurers. That's very different than Cheney, who was in bed with the energy cos. I guess context matters.
July 22, 2009 5:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
the problem is, the health care reforms we are likely to see from obama and the dem controlled congress are far less at odds with the interests of these execs and lobbyists than would be best for the american people. let's not pretend that obama is delivering single payer or something just because you find good guys vs bad guys to be a more compelling storyline.
July 22, 2009 7:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Obama is having this hard a time passing what you claim is modest reform, imagine how much a nonstarter something like single payer.
I just don't think Obama is the problem here. It is all Congress (with a dose of MSM bias thrown in (see that mediamatters link in this thread)).
July 23, 2009 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's not let the perfect get in the way of the good. We're at a point in health care reform where realistically, negotiations can't take place in public. You folks here demanding perfection from Obama need to take a chill pill. You're not always going to get your way. While not perfect, this is almost certainly the most transparent, inclusive, respectful and communicative administration in history.
July 22, 2009 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe so, but we're not asking for transcripts of the meetings, just who was at the meetings.
July 22, 2009 3:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
He covered this last night and pointed out that all the reporters who are saying this were there taking pictures of everyone there and he also said last night that his office posted their names on his website or were doing it as he gave his conference.
This is much ado about nothing. Get a life folks.
July 23, 2009 10:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is how TPM joins the fight for health care? My God how unimportant is this in the middle of the week that could decide if people get adequate healthcare? If you want to fight this transparency battle do it AFTER we get health care passed. I would expect this of GOPolitico, but really this is just so disappointing for TPM to continue to jump on the negative bandwagon regarding this difficult task.
July 22, 2009 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is how David Kurtz does it, at least. No sign of Josh today. Josh is more astute and measured than the acerbic Kurtz.
And as another poster pointed out, Kurtz is simply wrong:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0309/Streaming_live_Healthcare.html
This was on CSPAN. TPM needs to make a correction.
Agreed: Health care is a monumental task/struggle. TPM should be joining in the battle against the forces of "No" instead of snarking from the sidelines.
July 22, 2009 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed there's definitely a different tone on David's days. Pity. He's really good, but he's getting distracted by the shiny objects.
July 22, 2009 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
so is your advice that tpm should put partisan politics ahead of accurate reporting? not to report any 'bad news' when it could be disadvantageous to obama or the dems?
unlike obama, tpm doesn't just talk about transparency when there are partisan points to be scored.
July 22, 2009 7:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I should damn well hope the secret service doesn't just hand out lists of who visits the president. Has anyone bothered to actually ask the president or his office? If they haven't then this is just silly.
July 22, 2009 1:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Honest advice from industry "officials"? That's truly hysterical. Sort of like a harbor seal asking a great white shark for survival tips, or investing with Bernie Madoff, or ... the analogies are endless.
July 22, 2009 2:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry. Misplaced. Meant as reply to Mateo.
July 22, 2009 3:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
He covered this last night and pointed out that all the reporters who are saying this were there taking pictures of everyone there and he also said last night that his office posted their names on his website or were doing it as he gave his conference.
This is much ado about nothing. Get a life folks.
July 23, 2009 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Yet More Obama Secrecy: Won't Release Info On Visits From Health-Care Execs"
No offense, Zack, but who gives a shit? If we don't get universal health care now we are fucked. If we don't address global climate change now we are fucked. If we don't get the economy going soon we are fucked. Obama is the only one who can make those things happen. If you care about these issues, how about lending a hand instead of undermining Obama every chance you get?
July 22, 2009 3:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
i think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of tpm's mission and their conception of journalistic integrity.
July 22, 2009 7:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do I? So you think obsessing on trivial distractions at the expense of critical matters demonstrates "journalistic integrity"? And is it really TPM's "mission" to enable those seeking to undermine the president who represents the only chance for major reform we have had in 50 years? You want muck? Go do some investigative work on the money gushing into Congress from the energy and health insurance industries trying to derail policy initiatives critical to the nation's well-being. Now THAT would be a worthy "mission." Or how about some work on why the Blue Dog Democrats in Congress are strangling the health care initiative? THAT would show "journalistic integrity." Puerile foot-stamping demonstrates neither integrity nor dedication. Oh, and by the way, the names of attendees at the meetings have now been released. Mission accomplished through a surfeit of integrity. Now can we try to get universal health care?
July 23, 2009 7:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
He never said, specifically, what his administration would be transparent about. He's still a gazillion times better than Bush no matter how much people try to say he's the same as Bush.
July 22, 2009 4:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
He covered this last night and pointed out that all the reporters who are saying this were there taking pictures of everyone there and he also said last night that his office posted their names on his website or were doing it as he gave his conference.
This is much ado about nothing. Get a life folks.
July 23, 2009 10:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
He covered this last night and pointed out that all the reporters who are saying this were there taking pictures of everyone there and he also said last night that his office posted their names on his website or were doing it as he gave his conference.
This is much ado about nothing. Get a life folks.
July 23, 2009 10:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm just wondering how many times in the same thread you can post the same asinine comment. So far you're up to nine in this thread. Maybe you should consider getting a life, or at least a new talking point.
July 23, 2009 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
This seems to be the update of what is going on the state in the US. This kind of article featuring President Obama had made a widespread in the internet.
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August 12, 2009 3:02 PM | Reply | Permalink