Eric Holder is getting support for his decision to announce a criminal probe of torture from an unlikely source: Alberto Gonzales.
The former Attorney General told a radio interviewer for the Washington Times:
We worked very hard to establish ground rules and parameters about how to deal with terrorists. And if people go beyond that, I think it is legitimate to question and examine that conduct to ensure people are held accountable for their actions, even if it's action in prosecuting the war on terror.
Holder has said that CIA personnel who stayed within the Justice Department's legal guidelines will not be prosecuted.
Those people, said Gonzales, "are heroes and and should be treated like heroes for the most part, not criminals."
Gonzo added: "As chief prosecutor of the United States, [Holder] should make the decision on his own, based on the facts, then inform the White House."
Maybe he's wishing he did more of that during his own tenure.

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trblmkr
September 1, 2009 1:31 PM
"We worked very hard to establish ground rules and parameters about how to deal with terrorists."
Or even sometimes when they weren't....
It was hard work going down the DoJ OLC pecking order until Gonzo could find a sycophant like Professor Yoo. Once he found him, David Addington had to test Yoo for loyalty on Cheney's desk while the Boss watched.
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Overreach THIS!
September 1, 2009 10:19 PM in reply to trblmkr
I recommend your comment.
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JNagarya
September 2, 2009 1:51 AM in reply to trblmkr
"We worked very hard to establish ground rules and parameters about how to deal with terrorists."
Except, of course, that we forgot to first determine whether they were actually terrorists.
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Chabuka
September 1, 2009 1:49 PM
Mr. "I don't recall"..? Does he think he will be able to pass the blame on to someone else..? (I was just following orders!) I wouldn't go "bird hunting" with Cheney..if I were you, Gonzo
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sunnysteve
September 1, 2009 1:59 PM
He's publicly defining Holder's ground rules as limiting any prosecution to interrogators who went beyond the guidelines issued by the White House and his DOJ. That's simply in his self interest, because it implies that the torture guidelines themselves were legal. He's only covering his own butt and trying to box Holder in.
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diachronic
September 1, 2009 2:07 PM in reply to sunnysteve
That is a cynical interpretation. I think Gonzo is not all that Machiavellian, he did not draft the guidelines, and his one friend (GWB) has ditched him in the interest of self- preservation.
And unlike Cheney, he has no power base of his own, and no real agenda other than self-preservation. He is seeking new allies, in other words (ie, Holder and others in the new Administration).
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DaleD
September 1, 2009 2:11 PM in reply to diachronic
I'm going to disagree with you. Gonzales' job was to make sure the US follows the laws, including those we are obligated to by treaty. He should have shot this down immediately and forcefully or publicly resigned. He's at least an accessory to the torture even if he didn't write the policies.
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diachronic
September 1, 2009 2:52 PM in reply to DaleD
He is at least an accessory to torture. It seems, too, that he was running his own blackmail game with respect to Congress:
"Looking more specifically, it appears my original guess was correct--that Gonzales' notes from the March 10 meeting with the Gang of Eight was designed to record their complicity in the Administration's illegal wiretapping. We know from the report that when several Democrats disputed Gonzales account of the March 10 briefing, he started sharing the notes with the White House Counsel's office--so he in fact did use those documents to protect himself, at least (remember, he was risk of perjury charges for his statements about the wiretapping program before Congress)"
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/02/the-contents-of-alberto-gonzales-safe-briefcase/
Why would he independently try to keep damning information on Congress? Because he had to figure out his own way to cover his ass. (I'm sure Cheney had more than enough blackmail material to cover any Admin official, so I take it that Gonzo knew his position was precarious.) Conversely, though this is only a guess, he may have kept a private trove of revelations about illegal activities for the purpose of blackmailing Cheney and Bush.
I am sure Holder, and the rest of the us, wuld love to see those.
(OK, machiavellian enough.)
Maybe this is his way of telling Holder that he'll turn on his former bosses now. (The previous commenter was right who said he better not go duck hunting with Cheney.)
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JNagarya
September 2, 2009 1:56 AM in reply to diachronic
Not to sound cynical or anything like that, but I think you're overly optimistic in crediting Gonzales as having some degree of intelligence.
The guy was obviously a sychophantic brown-noser from the outset, and therefore too stupid to realize that he was actually viewed as an asswipe.
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EH
September 1, 2009 2:13 PM in reply to diachronic
I tentatively agree. Gonzo might be a lamer but I hold out the possibility that he got screwed in the deal and knows it, as if he was a victim of the Peter Principle. Of course it may be that everybody in the Bush Administration knew he was a dope and kept him from knowing the truly damaging stuff, in which case any torture investigation may not have much to do with him.
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diachronic
September 1, 2009 2:59 PM in reply to EH
"everybody in the Bush Administration knew he was a dope and kept him from knowing the truly damaging stuff"
That is why he started running his own blackmail operation, see my post above.
As for being a victim of the Peter Principle, I totally concur. Remember, Cheney and Addington are probably the most adept in history at exrecising their particular talent (exploiting the U.S. bureaucracy to subvert laws and commit mass crimes).
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SqueakyRat
September 1, 2009 10:06 PM in reply to diachronic
Hey, if he wants some new allies, there's an easy: start squealin', Abu.
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DaleD
September 1, 2009 2:08 PM in reply to sunnysteve
Exactly. This isn't support for a probe into torture, it's support for punishing the low-level personnel and again turning a blind eye to the criminals that created the policies.
Make no mistake, those that actually did the "work" need to be punished right along with those that told them to go do it.
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wyt
September 1, 2009 4:31 PM in reply to DaleD
In fairness, there are two issues here: (1) Do you prosecute people who trust the guidelines coming down from above and follow them? and (2) Do you prosecute people who violate the guidelines coming down from above? Plus a bonus issue: (3) Do you prosecute people giving bad guidelines? Personally, I'd say a strong yes to 2 and 3, but am uncertain about 1. You do not want a situation in wartime where every single person in the field is encouraged to question every order for its lawfulness. (Yes, we said you do want that in prosecutions following WWII, but maybe that was a mistake?) But if you (a) believe orders should be followed, (b) believe orders should not be violated by excess, and (c) believe those violations were seriously criminal, then of course 2 should be prosecuted fully.
I'd love to see 3 prosecuted fully too. I can only hope that in time the course of the law will get around to it. But independent of that, instances of 2 are serious - from any perspective - and failing to prosecute them would be a serious lapse. Gonzo would seem to agree on this. We should welcome that much.
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SqueakyRat
September 1, 2009 10:13 PM in reply to wyt
What is this "above" you're talking about? You see, I think a guy who gets orders from "above" should be expected to know that the people he's getting them from are just that: people. And if he's an interrogator for the CIA, he should also know what the Geneva Conventions and American law require of him, and of them. No one is "above" that.
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JNagarya
September 2, 2009 2:00 AM in reply to SqueakyRat
Agreed. The CIA interrogators are not "in the field" grunts. They wear suits and ties, and have a background in the applicable laws -- the latter being necessary so they don't violate the law.
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RobbyLove
September 1, 2009 2:28 PM
Call me cynical but I think Gonzo is supporting it because he thinks (cynically) that it is political poison for the Obama administration. Once a Bushie, always a Bushie.
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Mr.E.
September 1, 2009 2:39 PM
First, Gonzo's career is on thin ice, so as a lawyer he has to (finally) occasionally say something along the lines of, oh, maybe, let's follow the law.
Second, special prosecutors tend to have their own egos, and therefore agendas to follow once unleashed. LOTS of cases started out as limited investigations, but once started could not be constrained.
Third, I believe the chronology has already been created showing that torture practices started BEFORE the offensive DoJ briefs were signed. That begs the question who authorized that behavior, and without Cheney and Addington controlling the investigation, the investigators will quickly rat out the higher-ups that directed their actions. The CIA memos already document that EVERY action involving the detainees were being monitored closely and directed from above. Eventually, we may get to Cheney, red-faced in a witness stand, snarling "You can't handle the truth!" right before he's arrested and read his rights for committing war crimes.
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prouddem
September 1, 2009 8:44 PM in reply to Mr.E.
Thin ice indeed! He has nothing to lose at this point since his career is in the dumper. Let the rehabilitation begin!
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JohnW1141
September 1, 2009 2:47 PM
I will give Gonzo 20 minutes after he answers his next phone call to start backtracking.
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VictorLaszlo
September 1, 2009 2:51 PM
Gonzales: We worked very hard to establish ground rules and parameters about how to deal with terrorists.
He still can't bring himself to say 'suspects.' That alone pretty much disqualifies him from being taken seriously.
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GTFOOH
September 1, 2009 3:14 PM
Walking that comment back in, 5, 4, 3, 2,
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GuyFromLA
September 1, 2009 4:02 PM
He did what??? What did he setup again??
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JohnW1141
September 1, 2009 5:58 PM
Here we have a guy who was one of the Governor/President's best friends, a lawyer who became Attorney General of the U. S. who, upon leaving Government and Bush's side, can't even get a decent job.
Maybe this venture into the public arena again is a sign that Gonzo may be writing a book?
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prouddem
September 1, 2009 8:46 PM in reply to JohnW1141
You don't go public until the book comes out. Otherwise, you waste your "bang" effect. Leave it to Gonzo to screw that up too!
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Bo
September 1, 2009 10:17 PM
Looks to me that Holder is being forced by political pressure against his will and the strong preference of the current administration to open an investigation into torture. Indications are that it will be as soft and weak as possible.
Perhaps Gozales figures this investigation is the least worst chance he has of staying out of jail. That if a real investigation by someone who is not part of the bi-partisan ruling elite team gets started, that the whole game may unravel.
Better to support the whitewash than risk something worse down the line.
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arias
September 2, 2009 1:14 AM in reply to Bo
What pressure? Once a special prosecutor is appointed, which has been done, I'm not sure what political pressures can be applied unless the prosecutor comes back to DOJ asking for more specific parameters in defining his duty which at this point as been made pretty clear.
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JNagarya
September 2, 2009 2:06 AM in reply to Bo
I'm not going to pretend to be able to read Gonzales' mind (presuming he has such a thing).
The same "bi-partisan ruling elite" assertions were made during the 1960s -- BEFORE Watergate. And that, though it didn't go far enough, did not get whitewashed.
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SadButTrue
September 2, 2009 12:50 AM
"We worked very hard to establish ground rules and parameters about how to deal with terrorists."
That sounds almost like a confession to me. If a good prosecutor were trying to nail Gonzo, he could work with
a) - the fact that there were already established ground rules and parameters in place -- ie, the Geneva Convention and US criminal law.
b) - the outcome of Gonzo's hard work was to subvert those laws and treaties.
c) - as Attorney General Gonzo had an affirmative duty to follow those laws and see that others in government also followed them. He had taken an oath to that effect.
I'm sure that if I had actually trained in law I could come up with at least d) through m) and maybe even work my way to the end of the alphabet.
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Bo
September 2, 2009 2:44 PM
JNaqarya brings up Watergate which is an excellent precedent.
I recently found the Walter Karp essay on Watergate. Karp has been dead for almost twenty years, so the essay is not written as a lesson on parallels to the Bush administration. Karp was an editor of Harper's and Lewis Lapham's right hand guy.
Karp details the stalling and excuses of the Democratic Party hacks to let Watergate go down the memory hole. If one did a search-and-replace within the article and replaced "Nixon" with "Bush" it is really stunning how fresh the article would be. Partly because Karp was drawing supportable conclusions which were unthinkable thoughts both now and then. Like maybe the Democratic Party hacks and the Republican hacks had more in common with each other than with reformers within their own parties.
I could abstract Karp's piece but it is available online if one googles "Watergate" Karp.
I think Karp was our greatest political analyst and Bill Moyers, Christopher Hitchens, Hannah Arendt and Greil Marcus are also fans of Karp.
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Bo
September 2, 2009 2:47 PM
JNaqarya brings up Watergate which is an excellent precedent.
I recently found the Walter Karp essay on Watergate. Karp has been dead for almost twenty years, so the essay is not written as a lesson on parallels to the Bush administration. Karp was an editor of Harper's and Lewis Lapham's right hand guy.
Karp details the stalling and excuses of the Democratic Party hacks to let Watergate go down the memory hole. If one did a search-and-replace within the article and replaced "Nixon" with "Bush" it is really stunning how fresh the article would be. Partly because Karp was drawing supportable conclusions which were unthinkable thoughts both now and then. Like maybe the Democratic Party hacks and the Republican hacks had more in common with each other than with reformers within their own parties.
I could abstract Karp's piece but it is available online if one googles "Watergate" Karp.
I think Karp was our greatest political analyst and Bill Moyers, Christopher Hitchens, Hannah Arendt and Greil Marcus are also fans of Karp.
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johnnydoughey
September 3, 2009 12:59 AM
"I was doing God's work, but those other guys are sinners, bowing and obeying satan."
TRY THEM!!! They were ALL inhuman and working for everything BUT what this nation has stood for... and do not deserve to be free while REAL patriots are giving their lives for this nation....
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