Comments (182)

pholkhero wrote on December 13, 2006 2:17 PM:

I can't believe this isn't bigger new (well, acutally i can believe it, but . . . ) Teh gov't is rounding up citizens and sending them off in buses to 'undisclosed locations.' Hasn't Eichmann been able to get teh trains to run on time yet?

What's more, what sort of legal recourse do these people have now? Who can teh citizen's they've taken get in contact with to help them? My guess is they've been given the same rights as gitmo inmates.

I wonder if 'undisclosed location' = FEMA camps

LPM wrote on December 13, 2006 2:21 PM:

Please don't interpret laziness as malice.

Paul wrote on December 13, 2006 2:25 PM:

Ha ha, anyone remember the Cheech movie "Born in East L.A.?" Life imitates "art". Actually the movie was probably the best one Cheech Marin did.

lutton wrote on December 13, 2006 2:26 PM:

"Do you think it's going to be cold in Mexico?"

What a jerk. Of course parts of Mexico are cold. How idiotically xenophobic.

F'in Librul wrote on December 13, 2006 2:29 PM:

I hope they don't visit baton Rouge while Congress is on break. They might arrest our Governore wanna-be, Bobby Jindal.

He is, after all, brown-skinned.

Mr.Murder wrote on December 13, 2006 2:32 PM:

They will now use these workers as a form of outsourcing.
We'll pay CACI and Halliburton to house, guard, deport them.

To their own recruiting offices in Mexico(where we get many of our Iraq soldiers) and then employ a scheme to have them but entry back here and start the cycle again...

zak822 wrote on December 13, 2006 2:33 PM:

Let's be real here folks. We knew it would happen this way, in this manner. Color is going to be the first sort, simply because most Americans think Mexicans and South Americans are dark skinned. Most have no idea that many Latinos look, well, Polish or German--they look white.

This does not change the facts. Illegal is still illegal; they should be rounded up and deported.

What it does do is demonstrate a clear need to take measure to avoid racial profiling. This is likely impossible, because poilce authorities at all levels tend to view dark skin as meaning you are likely a criminal.

Face it, America cannot absorb the endless flood of people from Central and South America who want to better their situation.

MS wrote on December 13, 2006 2:34 PM:

Reports are that 1000 agents descended on the meat factory to arrest the employees.

It's reminiscent of the anti-Japanese wave and the arrests made in California that put Japanese-American citizens and residents (but not German-American citizens) in camps in the 1940's.

If only that many agents were made available to check the safety of the meat.

Tamar wrote on December 13, 2006 2:38 PM:

It's so obvious how they chose the potential "illegal immigrants!" If the INS has info on a particular work place, they should be required to treat all the workers the same. Accents, skin color, etc. shouldn't affect the treatment and they should be required to the same checks on every person. This would force them to treat everyone better and would also give many naive citizens an idea of what it's like to be an immigrant. I keep thinking of the many occasions when Asian-Americans in this country who are asked "where are you from," and the questioner gets annoyed when the person answers "New York" or "Iowa City." (instead of China, or Japan, etc.).

Brooklyn Girl wrote on December 13, 2006 2:42 PM:

Face it, America cannot absorb the endless flood of people from Central and South America who want to better their situation.

Posted by: zak822

These people were not begging on the streets. They were working in meat packing plants, doing jobs that you probably wouldn't want to do, for money that you probably couldn't live on. I can assure you that the entire restaurant industry in New York, and probably the agriculture industry in California, would collapse if it weren't for illegal workers.

Of course, we need to do something about illegal aliens, but treating them like animals isn't the answer.

And neither is ethnic stereotyping.

Mnemosyne wrote on December 13, 2006 2:44 PM:

So when they do similar sweeps in, say, Chicago, they automatically arrest all of the blonde/blue-eyed people in line because of the large number of Polish immigrants who overstay their visas and become illegal workers, right? Right? Illegal workers from Europe are being treated the same way, right?

Yes, all of the above questions are rhetorical. Any effort to arrest illegal workers who only come from one part of the world will NOT solve the problem.

Flatlander100 wrote on December 13, 2006 2:51 PM:

Bet the meat company owners weren't arrested. Were they?

mdhatter wrote on December 13, 2006 3:00 PM:

did they learn nothing from the "macaca" incident

oh, stupid question.

eric wrote on December 13, 2006 3:01 PM:

Face it, America cannot absorb the endless flood of people from Central and South America who want to better their situation.

Posted by: zak822

Are you aware of a list of U.S. citizens lined up to work in meat processing facilities? In my view, the U.S. cannot maintain our cheap food supply without immigrants that work in such places.

mdhatter wrote on December 13, 2006 3:03 PM:

"Face it, America cannot absorb the endless flood of people from Central and South America who want to better their situation."

It's time we return the statue in NY harbor, apparently.

"Give me your huddled masses" means nothing to the selfish.

Art wrote on December 13, 2006 3:04 PM:

and this is a raid that we know about. it's amazing that many times the gov't is willing to look the other way on many other violations (some of them being more "morally reprehensible") because it will stunt productivity. now it seems that the gov't will commit morally reprehensible acts which could stunt productivity. i guess racism/xenophobia comes before the almighty dollar sometimes...

textaddict wrote on December 13, 2006 3:08 PM:

"In my view, the U.S. cannot maintain our cheap food supply without immigrants that work in such places."

In my view, a cheap food supply that depends on ignoring lawbreakers is already at risk. If our food industry can't survive paying people a living wage something's gotta give, as they say...

dhonig wrote on December 13, 2006 3:10 PM:

the real problem is that the company, which (if DHS is correct in carrying out the raid in the first place) is the real heart of the problem, was allowed to stay in business. So long as we are just arresting and deporting the workers, but winking at the businesses that pay cut-rate wages to maximize profits, the problem will continue. It must be terribly hard to be a Republican these days, what with hating brown people but loving the companies that exploit them.

cp1919 wrote on December 13, 2006 3:16 PM:

Illegal is still illegal;
Posted by: zak822

ICE says Swift & Co. will not be charged.

ICE responded Swift was knowingly employing illegal workers...
Posted by: gjdodger

some are more equal that others....

On the Clock wrote on December 13, 2006 3:23 PM:

Anyone know where these folks are going to be held prior to deportation? Maybe in one of those Halliburton detainment centers? If anyone has a list of those center locations, now would be a good time to publish it.

Lee wrote on December 13, 2006 3:25 PM:

What I've never understood about the theory that we can't absorb this "flood" is there are no facts to bear it out. If they are taking American jobs from Americans, unemployment would be rising. Perhaps even skyrocketing, to judge from the alarm with which this theory is trumpeted to the masses. Yet unemployment among remains stable or even trending downward, depending on who you believe.

These people are hard workers. They've trudged 500 miles, or been smuggled in the backs of unventilated semis in order to get a job picking cabbage for what, 50 cents an hour? They work harder than a lot of the fat as*es sitting at their keyboards bemoaning the jobs that these people are supposedly stealing away from us by the hundreds of thousands.

As for breaking the law-maybe we should make it easier for Hispanics to get in the country. For Cubans, you just have to set foot on our soil and you're safe. Granted, they're fleeing the "horrors" of life under Castro. But in actually, they are really only looking for a better life, same as Mexicans, Hondurans, etc. Very very few of the people from Cuba actually came here as political refugees.

Anyway, our overall immigration policy is in serious need of an overhaul, without somehow trying to justify white racist tendencies.

Brianm0122 wrote on December 13, 2006 3:28 PM:

maybe I missed this, but none of the news articles on this story seem to mention it:

How many Swift, inc. managers were arrested for hiring illegal workers?

Isn't that illegal too?

NDP wrote on December 13, 2006 3:42 PM:

Some well-intentioned person offered above: "Please don't interpret laziness as malice."

I think this sums up the problem nicely. Treating another person's rights casually (lazily) is, indeed, treating them in a harmful (malicious) manner. Constitutional rights are only meaningful when they are respected equally and without exception. Oterhswise, they would be 'constitutional privileges.'

Of course, this can be taken to extremes. Hurting my feelings because you can't guess my ancestral country of origin from my surname is not malicious. Arbitrarily putting me into a line of people to be deported based on my skin color is malicious.

Knowing the difference in the above examples probably requires that you experience it at some level. Tragically, until they come for you, you don't have an appreciation for the difference.

RR wrote on December 13, 2006 3:43 PM:

Let's see, the majority of individuals under investigation or having been arested working on the Hill (congress, lobbyists etc.) have been older white men. How about a spectacular raid and lining up all the suspects until they've been "cleared".

Yikes.

Phoenix Woman wrote on December 13, 2006 3:46 PM:

Bet the meat company owners weren't arrested. Were they?

Of course not; they weren't even fined. They would have been penalized under the Clinton Administration, but Bush all but scrapped enforcement of those laws when he took over the White House.

pseudonymous in nc wrote on December 13, 2006 3:47 PM:

So, when are we going to hear about the raids on bars in Boston and New York, where the palest workers got tagged? I'm sure the story's going to break soon on how Conan O'Brien got mistakenly arrested. No?

Well, at least it keeps Lou Dobbs from exploding from his own self-importance for a week.

P2 wrote on December 13, 2006 3:48 PM:

Yeah, what happened to the owners that hired them. Or for that matter the consumers that dont' care how their products get to them as long as it's cheap at WalMart?

This country is descending into morass of xenophobia, hatred and blaming everyone else for the problems of the world.

They'll be coming for us next. Don't kid yourself.

Phoenix Woman wrote on December 13, 2006 3:48 PM:

Here's the cite for Clinton's record v. Bush's WRT going after the employers of illegals: http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/06/dean_on_bushs_b_1.php

Tres Skeptique wrote on December 13, 2006 3:52 PM:

Swift better hope that none of the arrested illegals have any "connections" to "terrorists." The Patriot Act is explicit about what happens to those commercial enterprises that aid and abet.

Then again, a TPM story pointed out yesterday that the Bush DOJ is all talk and no execution, so at least prosecution-wise, they may be safe.

Without a large portion of their labour force, that is! Just another way to continue offshoring US industry, I guess.

bryan wrote on December 13, 2006 3:55 PM:

Maybe the movie "Fast Food Nation" had something to do with the raids. The movie did a good job of exposing how the meatpacking industry is heavily reliant on undocumented workers to staff its plants.

Swift needs to be made an example of. The company should face heavy sanctions for its lax enforcement of US labor laws. Will that happen? It all depends on which legislators Swift contributed to in the last election cycle.

Soft in the Head wrote on December 13, 2006 3:56 PM:

I can't wait for the beef and pork processing industry to follow the poultry business. Beginning this year, chickens may be slaughtered in the US and sent to China for processing. Can beef be far behind?

rdf wrote on December 13, 2006 3:58 PM:

Here is a recent report from Texas on the net economic gain from the undocumented workforce. By the state's own estimate it amounts to about $17 billion a year in increased revenue.

Let's finally put the bogus claim that immigrants are a drain on the economy to rest. Here is a link to the full report (PDF).

Undocumented Immigrants in Texas

Gary wrote on December 13, 2006 3:59 PM:

zak822 is just plain ignorant.

Living in New York City, there are plenty of illegal Irish and Polish immigrants (and they're not even brown!)

More importantly, as the facts are reported here this is a clear example of invidious racial discrimination which is unconstitutional.

If the reports are accurate, this could be a big deal.

And I also know some illegal Mexican immigrants; they are by far the hardest working people I have ever met.

Deport Tancredo!

rdf wrote on December 13, 2006 3:59 PM:

Apparently this new interface eats HTML here is the link without any attempt to make it readable:

http://www.cpa.state.tx.us/specialrpt/undocumented/undocumented.pdf

bob wrote on December 13, 2006 4:05 PM:

More refutation of zak822's nonsense:
http://www.cato-unbound.org/2006/08/20/douglas-s-massey/seeing-mexican-immigration-clearly/#comment-2853

hermesten wrote on December 13, 2006 4:08 PM:

1. The "illegals" are just trying to make a living. Companies like Swift exploit the illegal status of workers in order to get cheap labor and put money in the pockets of management.

2. There is no way the Feds don't know about these practices, at Swift, or any other large corporation. So, it sorta looks like Swift musta skipped some protection payoffs.

3. La Migra arresting dark skinned people is nothing new. They were arresting and carting of American citizens of Mexican descent where I worked 30 years ago.

Julie wrote on December 13, 2006 4:17 PM:

They did the same thing during the Depression. It was covered in the movie, "Mi Familia" and Woody Guthrie wrote a song called "Deportees (Plane Wreck at Los Gatos)" documenting the time when a plane load of Mexican immigrants -- and some US citizens -- crashed in Los Gatos Canyon on the way to Mexico, killing all aboard. Back then, they didn't distinguish between citizens and non-citizens, either. If you were brown, had an accent or a Spanish surname, you were considered illegal and deportable.

Sue wrote on December 13, 2006 4:27 PM:

Wow. No mention AT ALL from ANYONE about the fact that these hard working illegals were using false papers with VALID social security numbers - that's identity theft. Oh, and barriers within Homeland Security prevent the government from telling the people whose SSNs were used. Was it yours? Mine?

I've got a heart, but they knew they were here illegally. They knew deportation was a risk, but they decided to bring/raise families anyway. Don't they bear ANY responsibility for their situation?

And yes, immigration policies need to be reformed - badly (as well as additional training for ICE agents). I've lived in South Florida all my life and have seen first hand the unequal treatment, specifically between Cuban & Haitian immigrants.

SeaGuy wrote on December 13, 2006 4:27 PM:

As wrong as this is, it's not really that surprising.
Sure, act outraged and all that. That's what's expected.
Now, do something about it.

Check out:
http://www.brownequalsterrorist.com/artiststatement/

Powkat wrote on December 13, 2006 4:31 PM:

It's practice. KBR has been building camps for 'immigration emergencies' for the last couple years. Who doesn't think more and more of us are going to end up there? And the compliant media keeps it quiet, or announces it in a way that sounds like dangerous criminals were rounded up.

These guys are cornered, viscious, and not giving up without a nasty fight. Keep alert.

CG wrote on December 13, 2006 4:33 PM:

For On the_Clock:

This will get you going on detention camps:
http://infowars.com/cc_archive.htm

Martha Gillis wrote on December 13, 2006 4:48 PM:

This sounds exactly like the stories we used read about the Nazis arresting the Jews in Germany. Undisclosed location! It is frightening!

quixote wrote on December 13, 2006 5:03 PM:

There's a simple solution to the problem of illegal workers. Like universal (and cheaper) health insurance, it's well known in other developed countries. It's called work permits. But guess who's against that here? No, it's not just the unions. Business is violently opposed. And that gets to the heart of the whole issue of illegals: BUSINESS DOES NOT WANT LEGAL WORKERS. Legal workers can complain. Legal workers can demand minimum wages and human treatment. Business wants illegal workers. They'd rather have men and women dying, women getting raped, people unable to see their families for years on end, as the cost of doing cheaper business. And so, when it comes right down to it, would the rest of us who like our cheaper meat and veg.

Linda Lou wrote on December 13, 2006 5:04 PM:

pack meat

Tony Prentakis wrote on December 13, 2006 5:25 PM:

We Americans need to choose between two evils: racial profiling, or a national ID card.

When we look at a white, middle-aged, pudgy, balding man, what the hell makes us think he's _not_ an illegal alien? Now change the description to dark-skinned, youngish woman with a Hispanic accent. What the hell makes us think she _is_? How do we expect either of them to prove they are "legal"? Personally, I have a fancy certificate that proclaims my citizenship, but I have never had to display it, because I fit the first description. A native-born citizen fitting the second description, if challenged by a boneheaded DHS officer, is supposed to display ... well, what?

Sure, a national ID card sounds creepy. On the other hand, most of us long ago gave up anonymity in favor of convenience: does anyone here _not_ have a credit card?

K O wrote on December 13, 2006 5:29 PM:

The only two problems I see wrong with this scenario are:

1. They should have questioned all workers.
2. The employer should be held responsible with a heavy fine and arrest of the owners because you just know they knew these workers were illegal & of the stealing of people's social security numbers.

I don't have much sympathy for any person here illegally because they broke our laws to come here and knew in advance there were risks to themselves involved. Come here the correct way and you are welcome. Come here as an illegal I just lost any sympathy I may have had for you.

Our government is the real problem for turning a blind eye all these years particularly during the Bush years. Now they claim there is no way to make all illegals go home. There certainly is, cut off all benefits they are receiving and they will leave.

Both parties want cheap labor which also has the effect of pushing all wages down. We are our own worst enemy if we allow all these problems to continue.

Then we have our own citizens supporting letting illegals stay because they want cheap prices and don't care about the overall effect of allowing our borders to be flooded.

As long as our government stalls and does nothing this problem will only become worse. Start a guest worker program at our peril. All children born of these guest workers will become citizens and cost us even more in social and economic problems because their parents aren't citizens. A guest worker program is just another form of amnesty whether Congress admits it or not. Once you have amnesty it only encourages ever more illegals to come. That's exactly what happened after Reagan granted amnesty.

Go ahead. Support keeping illegals here and watch your own wages plunge ever more downward.

MM wrote on December 13, 2006 5:37 PM:

@Julie, perhaps nobody is making mention of the identify theft because "But ICE said 1,217 of the detainees were being held on immigration charges alone and only 65 were facing identity-theft or other criminal charges?" And why were they encouraged to engage in identity theft for the few who apparently did? Could it be the federal program that Swift implemented to check ID is deeply flawed in that it couldn't even catch ID theft?

K O wrote on December 13, 2006 5:39 PM:

The glaring problems are:

1. They didn't question all workers and the employer.
2. Swift was not fined nor were owner(s) imprisoned.
3. Our government has neglected their duty to keep illegals out. No other country would allow this and just ignore the problem so ever more would continue coming.

Our government wants these people here illegally because they provide the wonderful benefit of cheap labor while helping to drive our citizen's wages ever more downward.

I don't have any sympathy for anyone coming here illegally because they knew the risks in advance and chose to break our laws and come anyway.

I am against any guest worker program (we already have guest worker programs anyway)and particularly when it allows them to come here for several years. In the meantime, illegals will continue to have babies who become citizens during that time (8 yrs. really)and only make the problems worse. The anchor baby feature allows babies of illegal people to become citizens whether their parents are citizens or not. Then with the low wages we pay illegals these families end up drawing benefits because they have a child who is a U.S. citizen.

Take away the anchor baby benefit which would likely require a Constitutional amendment and it will help resolve some of the incentive to come illegally.

chuck wrote on December 13, 2006 5:44 PM:

The use of the social security numbers of others is so common it has become a source of income to some legal residents with relatives who come illegally, or even just rented to friends. The owner of the number gets earnings added to their social security records. The user gets no questions. It's a legit number after all. The renter charges the user cash. a regular capitalist notion. This has been going on awhile. I just love how Swift "co-operated". What a joke. They know who is working for them.

Capn wrote on December 13, 2006 5:50 PM:

"Take away the anchor baby benefit which would likely require a Constitutional amendment and it will help resolve some of the incentive to come illegally."

Yeah, because that totally helped the Germans keep the Turks out.

Every group that's already in a country vilifies those who are just arriving, because they tend to be from the lower classes and are seen as a dangerous cultural and economic element. Problem is, every single time this has happened in the US (and in Europe) it's proven to be positive economically and culturally in the long run--those people often become more patriotic than those already in-country. That's why you don't see any "No dogs or Irish" signs anymore, or why a Catholic can become President.

But no, everyone locks onto the small percentage who are either stridently foreign or illegal, claiming all kinds of idiotic things about them ("they take our jobs" "they live off our welfare" "they don't pay taxes") all of which may be true in individual cases, but not in aggregate. It's usually nothing more than a cover for base classism or racism.

Stephen wrote on December 13, 2006 6:02 PM:

I'm sure the plant operators were shocked, shocked to find out that illegal immigrants were working in their plant...what, exactly, is the point of randomly rounding people up and deporting them?

JH wrote on December 13, 2006 6:13 PM:

Were they really sorting just by shade of skin, or were they just sorting out those who looked Hispanic? If so, can you think of a more effective first filter for finding illegal aliens from Hispanic countries? However, I agree the comment made by that officer to be completely unacceptable.

"It's reminiscent ... that put Japanese-American citizens and residents (but not German-American citizens) in camps in the 1940's.

Contrary to what many in the US believe, German-Americans WERE interned in the 1940's. Putting innocent people in camps during wartime was nothing new in WWII. Canada did the same in WWI as well, with my own great-grandfather being being forced against his will to work on a farm for the duration of the war.

"It's time we return the statue in NY harbor, apparently. "Give me your huddled masses" means nothing"

Those people entered legally. How hard is that to understand?? America still allows large numbers of people to immigrate legally.

CNYorker wrote on December 13, 2006 6:20 PM:

Actually these raids are similar to those that happened in during the Depression in California. If you were brown and walking down the street - you were deported to Mexico EVEN if you were a citizen. All of this legal vs. illegal stuff betrays the usual US inability to know anything that happened in the past. When the Poles, Italians, Greeks, Jews and etc. reached NY -- they were checked for diseases...none of them "applied" for legal status...you got in and were made legal if you were healthy -- and still millions of others came here illegally -- they were without papers or WOPs like Senator Pete Dominici's mom...so this whole thing is a crock ...someone at Swift & Co. did not pay someone off---------

brendan wrote on December 13, 2006 6:37 PM:

Flatlander said, "Bet the meat company owners weren't arrested. Were they?"

Of course not. You see, a roving gang of illegal immigrants held the CEO at gun point and forced him to give them low paying, dangerous jobs.
And it's happening all over this country: batallions of armed Latinos roaming the countryside, giving helpless conglomerates the choice: "shitty jobs, amigo: o muerte!"

The CEO at Swift was helpless, just helpless to resist It was like a scene out of Red Dawn, but in Spanish.

How could anyone reasonable press charges?

Anonymous wrote on December 13, 2006 6:38 PM:

@zak822 & ur ilk who say:
"Illegal is still illegal; they should be rounded up and deported...Face it, America cannot absorb the endless flood of people from Central and South America who want to better their situation"

What amerika can't afford is crackers like you who think whitey's shit don't stink!

Go perform an anatomically impossible sex act.

{õ£õ} wrote on December 13, 2006 6:38 PM:

@zak822 & ur ilk who say:
"Illegal is still illegal; they should be rounded up and deported...Face it, America cannot absorb the endless flood of people from Central and South America who want to better their situation"

What amerika can't afford is crackers like you who think whitey's shit don't stink!

Go perform an anatomically impossible sex act.

Anonymous wrote on December 13, 2006 6:45 PM:

It seems kinda obvious that the people planning this raid and deciding how it would be executed knew that any number of citizens and legal residents of the US could be swept up and taken to some undisclosed location for some unknown period, with no access to representation. So what I'm wondering is why USC 18:242 wouldn't apply:

"This statute makes it a crime for any person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom to willfully deprive or cause to be deprived from any person those rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution and laws of the U.S.

This law further prohibits a person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation or custom to willfully subject or cause to be subjected any person to different punishments, pains, or penalties, than those prescribed for punishment of citizens on account of such person being an alien or by reason of his/her color or race.

Acts under "color of any law" include acts not only done by federal, state, or local officials within the bounds or limits of their lawful authority, but also acts done without and beyond the bounds of their lawful authority; provided that, in order for unlawful acts of any official to be done under "color of any law," the unlawful acts must be done while such official is purporting or pretending to act in the performance of his/her official duties."

In addition, since the planning of the raids appear to have included plans to unlawfully imprison any citizens or legal residents swept up in the raid, "if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon ... shall be fined or imprisoned up to ten years or both,... or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap ... shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death."

Donald from Hawaii wrote on December 13, 2006 6:45 PM:

zak822: "Face it, America cannot absorb the endless flood of people from Central and South America who want to better their situation."

Have you been to Sacramento, CA lately? I would hazard to say that a tremendous percentage of the "Migras" are either Russian, Ukainian, or Belorussian. They certainly seem to dominate the taxicab and hotel/airport shuttle trade in town. What about them?

pseudonymous: "So, when are we going to hear about the raids on bars in Boston and New York, where the palest workers got tagged?"

I was working in an Irish Pub and restaurant in San Francisco that was the subject of an INS raid in 1989. They pulled aside all the kitchen help for the third degree, because they were either Mexican or Filipino. Meanwhile, they failed to question the two real "illegals" who were working for us -- one was Irish and the other Quebecois (Canada).

There is probably nobody on this site who doesn't recognize that illegal immigration is a potentially serious problem confronting this country. However, thinly-veiled racism and xenophobia contribute nothing of substance to the discussion.

Rick Hickey wrote on December 13, 2006 7:06 PM:

CRIMINALS, many arrested were also criminals such as Child Molesters & Social Security Fraud is a Felony.
Yes, Americans have always done these jobs and still will for an American paycheck.

Hopefully ICE will keep this up and just like in 1954, Millions will self deport.

Did you read today that Freightliner is firing 4,000 American workers? Opening plants in Mexico is why.

Swift had better pay better because they cannot move to Mexico. It worked in GA. when Cryder plant lost 700 Illegal Aliens, They immediately started to pay more and hired Homemless from shelters, who are no longer homeless!

manaen wrote on December 13, 2006 8:16 PM:

"Swift had better pay better because they cannot move to Mexico."

I don't know why they couldn't; when I was a missionary in Argentina, I toured one of Swift's plants there.

Name Withheld wrote on December 13, 2006 8:40 PM:

I worked for a small manufacturer here in the Midwest 10 years ago. Personnel in the plant then earned anywhere from 9 to 13 dollars an hour. Now they are hiring illegals and paying 6.50 an hour. I still know someone in the office. This year they had three workers change their name and SS#.

Robert wrote on December 13, 2006 11:30 PM:

I say this is wonderful news, white, brown, deport them all if they broke the law, no sympathy here.
As for you bleeding hearts out there, you're welcome to leave too. I'm sick and tired of all the excuses for not enforcing our laws. Get er done!

K O wrote on December 14, 2006 12:45 AM:

Xenophobia: fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or anything that is strange or foreign.

Illegal: not according to or authorized by law.

I am tired of people claiming someone is xenophobic the instant they speak out against illegal immigrants. The real purpose of this accusation is to silence anyone who does not agree with the oppositions opinions about illegals immigration.

To my knowledge no other country in the world would allow people crossing their borders or coming in by other means to stay in their country illegally. Most countries protect their borders and expel anyone they find who has come in illegally. There is no excuse for our own government not doing likewise. None.

Then we find our own citizens supporting those who come illegally. Cheering them on.

Now if I break any laws I would be arrested, but illegals are supposed to remain hands off. What nonsense.

We should be reporting anyone we know is here illegally. Not encouraging them to stay here unauthorized.

Alyosha` wrote on December 14, 2006 4:54 AM:

Just because it's illegal doesn't mean it's wrong. Congress passes bad laws all the time, encroaching on our freedom. Personally I think the idea that I need government's permission to work, to get money, to feed myself is a shitty law. Are we not the land of the free, the land of liberty? It's right up there with the anti-miscenegation laws we used to have.

Lao Tzu said that as laws increase, criminals increase. Immigration law makes criminals out of otherwise law-abiding citizens for no damn good reason. The solution to illegal immigration is to decriminalize it.

I know the reality. I know people who have fake Social Security numbers. I'm not happy about it. They're not happy about it. But they need to take the mark of the beast to buy and sell and make a living. It's a sad fact right now, but I'd no sooner punish them for doing what our government makes them do, then I would imprison a poor man for stealing bread.

To those who say that America can't handle the "flood" of immigrants -- let's put aside the mounds of evidence that immigrants contribute more to America that they take out, that if you want to talk about the leeches of society, let's talk about the native-born, the guy who works the same crappy-ass job that the immigrant is trying to "steal", but someone who has the advantages of both being legal and knowing the system from birth. How come you never talk about THAT guy, even though he was born in Nogales, Arizona and the other one was born in Nogales, Sonora?

If you think we're in danger of being "swamped" by immigrants when we got twice as many native-born poor folk living here right now -- you, my friend, are living in a smaller America than I am. My America is a big country, blessed with abundant riches, land of immigrants and one of the highest per-capita incomes in the world. My America is strong enough to help shoulder the burden of the poor, the tired, the yearning masses longing to breathe free. I don't know what fragile, weak-ass America you live in.

frank f*cking rizzo wrote on December 14, 2006 8:48 AM:

As for you bleeding hearts out there, you're welcome to leave too. I'm sick and tired of all the excuses for not enforcing our laws. Get er done!

Hey Robert -

You're welcome to go fuck yourself. I was born here; this country is as much mine as it is yours.

See, what I'm sick and tired of is right-wing droolers like yourself claiming that the only people entitled to live here are ones who think like you.

notatool wrote on December 14, 2006 9:10 AM:

hey robert-

Now if I break any laws I would be arrested, but politians are supposed to remain hands off. What nonsense.

This country was stolen from the indians, and you apparently want to give it back, eh?

If not, you should be quiet.

Brent wrote on December 14, 2006 9:38 AM:

Everyone so busy bashing our country and calling people who support LEGAL immmigration racists, but no one is taking a look at the wonderful Mexican Gov that supports Drug lords and craps on it's own people. Now it becomes the job of working people in the US who are struggeling themseves to support illegals and their babies and be expected to learn spanish because these illegals are to lazy to learn english. Must be nice to come in somewhere illegaly, get free health care, education,and other bennifits. Not to mention wave the flag of your native country that shit on you.
There are Americans who will do these Jobs that "Only Illegals will do" for HUMAN WAGES. It's really simple. If you support Illegals, than you support the componies that exploit them and in turn, support the republicans that allow these companies to pull this shit.

sulphurdunn wrote on December 14, 2006 10:32 AM:

Some of us will be whistling a different tune once professional class illegal immigration drives down salaries and is justified as a need to find people to do jobs doctors, lawyers, teachers, engineers, bankers, scientists et-al don't want or won't do for the money.

Anonymous wrote on December 14, 2006 2:35 PM:

Hey Brooklyn Girl, remember the constant argument for illegal labor, that they do jobs Americans don't want to do? Americans held those meat packing jobs in years past, and made a living wage.

Now the wages are so low Americans can't make ends meet working there. Economic arbitrage is a game we can't win, there is always someone willing to work for less. If the illegals weren't so readily available, simple economics would force wages up.

But to my original point, America can't absorb all of the people who want to come here. It doesn't matter if they are willing to work, the employment resources here are finite and the supply of people from Central and South America who want those jobs is inexhaustable. We can't solve the problems of those countries by bringing in their excess capacity.

As for you, {õ£õ}, you don't know anything about me. Calling me a cracker is as far off the mark as you could get. Illegal immigrants are a serious threat to the employability of African-American workers. For example, hotel housekeeping positions used to be staffed overwhelmingly by African-Americans. Now those jobs are staffed overwhelmingly by people from Central and South America. The same thing is happening with construction jobs in some cities, like Chicago.

You can be as crude as you want to be, but it won't change the facts. There are more people in Central and South America than we can provide jobs for.

Alyosha, I live in the fragile weak-ass America that's watching what used to be good jobs go to people who are not here legally, the America that scrapes to make it day to day. I want those jobs for people who play by the rules. Please enjoy your time in Utopia.

sulphurdunn, you're right on the money.

Anonymous wrote on December 14, 2006 2:52 PM:

Donald from Hawaii said "...thinly-veiled racism and xenophobia contribute nothing of substance to the discussion."

Donald, the article I responded to talked about how "The rest, mostly Latinos with brown skin" were treated diffently because of the skin tone. Latinos generally come from Central and South America. I haven't heard of many from Belorus or the Ukraine. And, I was in Sacramento 3 weeks ago. I travel a lot.

I responded to the article. Maybe you should have read it before you jumped on me. I never said, or implied, that people of European extraction were not in the pool of illegal immigrants. But it is certainly true that they are not walking across a wide open border or riding in by the truckload. They do not constitute a flood, as do the illegals coming in from Central and South America.

Your response to me, and Garys comment, simply prove that Justins post is accurate, which I did not dispute. Dark skinned people are routinely treated as criminals and light/white are not. This is not news.

Not every Democrat, and not every African-American, supports illegal immigration. They are unfair competition in the labor market.

Last, I seriously question the "studies" that find no problems with this.

James Lewman wrote on December 14, 2006 7:30 PM:

How many bosses at the meat packing plant were arrested for hiring illegals. Those are the real criminals. They don't pay unemployment they don't pay taxes. They don't pay what I pay to and for my legal workers. They are cheating us and need to go to jail.

eddie wrote on December 15, 2006 10:44 AM:

Can I ask if the folks who are arguing on behalf of non-citizens working under the table in this country are the same folks who are demanding a raise in the minimum wage?

Seriously, you raise the minimum wage, then provide an easy, available alternative to overpaying your fry cook, or lawn mower, or whatever.. and what do you think is going to happen?

Our immigration allotments are the most liberal they've ever been. We take a larger percentage of people in legally every year than ever before, and considering we have our largest population now the actual number is considerably larger. Yet, this isn't enough. Instead, millions of latin americans are coming over the border to work and send billions of dollars back home through Western Union. By the way, the ones sending money back home? those are the good ones... the mostly law-abiding ones who siphon of a chunk of the economy and mail it away. The others are the ones providing the bulk of the southwest's prison population, and the legwork of the narcotic importation industry.

The argument that they're doing work that Americans won't do is patently ridiculous. I mean, seriously, did we have no one working at fast food restaurants before the mexican invasion? No one doing landscaping? No one packing meat? Hell, even now 26% of all low-level agricultural jobs, the hand pickers, are not immigrant. What you actually mean is Americans won't or can't (legally) do the jobs that illegals will do for $2 or $3 an hour...

This has nothing to do with fear of brown skin... xenophobia... or anything else. It has to do with an external culture moving here wholesale, contrary to this nation's laws (and frankly I don't know of a single nation on earth you're allowed to move to unsupervised and undocumented). It has to do with unfair competition, ask a landscape contractor if he can survive hiring legal workers with all his competition employing illegals. It has to do with the culture of tagging, the joy of latin gangs, the intrusion of bilingual everything, the corruption of politicians who see new voters instead of aliens...

It's not color, it's not language, it's the illegality and the scale: I'd have a problem with 10 million Australians walking in, undercutting wages, and staying, too.

Nixol wrote on December 15, 2006 10:23 PM:

Posted by: pholkhero
Date: December 13, 2006 02:17 PM

Please don't interpret laziness as malice.

----

In some instances they're the same thing.

NYC Reader wrote on December 21, 2006 2:09 PM:

Eddie said:

"It's not color, it's not language, it's the illegality and the scale: I'd have a problem with 10 million Australians walking in, undercutting wages, and staying, too."

EXACTLY.

Dr. P wrote on December 23, 2006 7:34 PM:

Hello? Most Illegals are from South America.
Just like nearly all terrorists are Muslim.

While it is not right to single out anyone for
race, it's certainly a filtering criteria.

It looks ridiculous when they frisk a blonde
girl at the airport, and let the arab walk right
through.

Sorry, but sometimes physical traits are a good
starting point.

And yes, America is getting serious about the harm
that illegals are doing to our country, both
in terms of national security and the economy.

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Food For Thought:
"A line in the Sand: Confronting the Threat at the Southwest Border" Homeland Security
http://www.house.gov/mccaul/
Much cheaper to send back. We should stop voting in politicians that incourage illegal immigration.
We should stop buying from the Contractors and Big Corporation that get rich from cheap labor. We are tired of paying for the hospitals, schools, police, jails, prisions, roads, parks, and possibly social security after 18 months!

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