Comments (997)

Castor wrote on March 22, 2007 3:05 PM:

WOW... someone better go check on Jefferson and Washington... I am POSITIVE that they just rolled over in their graves...

Hasn't he heard of Checks and Balances???

bob wrote on March 22, 2007 3:08 PM:

I'm ready. Go ahead Snow, make my day and say that Bush dhould now be addressed as Your Magesty. Americans know exactly what to do with men who would be King.

JPT wrote on March 22, 2007 3:15 PM:

Which Constitution?

Maybe Snowjob is talking about the old Soviet one?

ihatebeets wrote on March 22, 2007 3:21 PM:

You have got to be kidding me. Which Constitution is he reading - oh, I know. The one written in secret by the Neocons at PNAC.

dmh wrote on March 22, 2007 3:22 PM:

God only knows what he and Rove are getting at, and it may be they are getting at nothing at all, but it may mean, in their (erroneous) view Congress only have investigative and oversight responsibility over those Cabinet offices and officers that they have confirmation power over. Ergo, they may call Gonzales before the Committee but not Rove.

Where would that leave Congress. Budget authority--don't fund the EOP until they produce the witnesses. Impeachment--start impeachment proceedings of whomever they are interested in getting under oath.

Bizarre but nothing else makes much sense.

kvenlander wrote on March 22, 2007 3:23 PM:

First Gonzales says that there is no inherent right to habeas corpus in the Constitution, now Snow delegates Congress to a subservient role.

What next?

Kali wrote on March 22, 2007 3:24 PM:

I find Josh's take on this intriguing and that this is part of the strategy to "Gum up" the works and confuse the citizenry in order to cover up multiple criminal acts.

Robin Boerner wrote on March 22, 2007 3:25 PM:

"common sense suggests that we ought to get the whole story out, which is what we're doing."

Then why are you obstructing justice Bush?

Why are we only sticking to these eight fired US Attorney's?

Let's get SWORN testimony from ALL the Patriotic Act US Attorney's. Lets find out why Nelson Cohen is in Alaska.

Happily ignoring a 100% disabled veterans Civil Rights being violated. Apparently with the Bush DOJ's approval.

What is his connection to the FBI raids on Sen Ted Stevens son's offices? The other Republican politicians in Alaska?

What was in those 12 boxes marked EVIDENCE the FBI took out of Ben Stevens office?

Tony Snow is a clown. I am sure he is proud to be the Bush Propaganda Minister.

KestrelBrighteyes wrote on March 22, 2007 3:25 PM:

Okay, I want to know where Tony Snow went to school and the name of his Civics teacher. We need to have a lil chat...

Brent wrote on March 22, 2007 3:27 PM:

Snowjob said this at least three times today. The presser, ABC and CBS (with Harry Smith).

Anonymous wrote on March 22, 2007 3:33 PM:

Baghdad Tony has lost his mind, Bush and Cheney have too.

EasyRider wrote on March 22, 2007 3:34 PM:

"Baghdad Tony" has lost his mind, Bush and Cheney have too.

I forgot my name.

TomInMaine wrote on March 22, 2007 3:37 PM:

The only answer to this band of Constitution highjackers that this country has had to enfure for 6 long years is for congress to innitiate Impeachment proceeding posthaste, otherwise all we will continue to have for the next two years is the bunker mentality that is in force today.

Pelosi did not do this country any favors when one of the first things out of her mouth was to take impeachment off the table.

The grassroots needs to be stirred up to change that mindset.

Enough is enough!

thatguy wrote on March 22, 2007 3:39 PM:

I was thinking earlier today that it would be great if a reporter asked the President if he's read the Constitution lately. After the inevitable "yes, of course I have" the follow-up would be - "ok, do you mind reciting a few lines. you choose what part. Any part will do."
I don't think it's an unreasonable question considering he swore to uphold it. I'd love to see him try.

FMArouet wrote on March 22, 2007 3:42 PM:

For a good primer on Congressional Oversight and related Supreme Court decisions, go to this link:

http://www.rules.house.gov/archives/comm_gp_cong_oversight.htm

Tony is blowing smoke. Somebody hold his own feet to his own fire.

Isn't there a single journalist in the White House Press Corps who has done some research on these issues? White House correspondents who care about doing their job are going to be needing this kind of historical context every day from now on.

Jim J wrote on March 22, 2007 3:50 PM:

I just did my taxes, y'all. And I'm damn sick and tired of pumping more and more money into this fascist quasi-monarchy here. The Declaration of Independence explicitly reserves for us the right to take action against tyrants. We're getting real close to having to exercise that prerogative, IMO.

peacebug wrote on March 22, 2007 4:04 PM:

whoa ... looking forward to olbermann tonight.

keith! keith!

mbbsdphil wrote on March 22, 2007 4:07 PM:

Mr. Snow is hoping that his president*s policies have so failed that our schools no longer teach children how to read, teach basic civics, govt and history, or identify the founding documents on which this country*s current govt rests.

Mr. Snow is an advocate for the president. Even if he has a law degree, he is not describing the law. He is describing his personal hope that his president need not answer to the people, or the other two, co-equal branches of govt.

Mr. Bush has huge discretion to keep confidential military, diplomatic and national security advice he receives. He has considerable leeway in keeping confidential advice on the routine, lawful management of govt. He has NO discretion to keep confidential matters relating to the violation of laws.

Mr. Snow*s obviously well-brainstormed and thoroughly rehearsed line is a pipe dream. Time for the plumber.

mbbsdphil wrote on March 22, 2007 4:12 PM:

Mr. Snow-wall*s line is a conscious spike thrust into Congress' eye. What is it that he hopes Congress will do? Flail blindly? Or, coolly and calculatingly use the other eye to aim at the king who ordered the spike thrown?

JT in Seattle wrote on March 22, 2007 4:19 PM:

Mr. Snow's comments do not bode well. Up until now, I have not given much credence to the speculation that there there might be underlying criminality. However, this is serious bunker talk on Mr. Snow's part.

The only reason that you'd throw out this kind of rhetoric is that there is something that they desperately do not want disclosed.

For the first time in all of this, I think we have a reasonable basis to believe that the situation is exteremely serious and reaches within the Oval.

kvenlander wrote on March 22, 2007 4:20 PM:

It is entirely appropriate for Pelosi to say impeachment is off the table. After all, she's the one with possibility to gain from it... You don't want her to look power mad like Newt, do you? Think what the corporate media would do to her if she called for impeachment herself.

Benjamin wrote on March 22, 2007 4:24 PM:

"wrong" being the security word is alomost too ironic for me.

Jim J,

I'm right there with you on our right to oust the tyrannical when we see fit. We don't have to wait for some consensus or majority. When I see fit I hurt or kill those trying to subvert liberty and I dont feel guilt or look back regretfully on the actions that must be taken to insure our future.

Give me "the bomb" I'll show you what to do with it.

phil james wrote on March 22, 2007 4:32 PM:

From the House webpage on the need for oversight:

-Ensure executive compliance with legislative intent.
-Improve the efficiency, effectiveness, and economy of governmental operations.
-Evaluate program performance.
-Prevent executive encroachment on legislative prerogatives and powers.
-Investigate alleged instances of poor administration, arbitrary and capricious behavior, abuse, waste, dishonesty, and fraud.
-Assess an agency or official's ability to manage and carry out program objectives.
-Review and determine federal financial priorities.
-Ensure that executive policies reflect the public interest.
-Protect individual rights and liberties.
-Review agency rule-making processes.
-Acquire information useful in future policymaking.

Seems several of these are at issue in the USA firings. It looks like Bushco has prepared for this, perhaps for some time though. Snow is simply repeating their contention that Congress' oversight over executive agencies does not extend to the Chief Executive himself (and by extenson his direct advisors) but only to the Executive Branch departments and programs. Hence, providing DOJ e-mails but not WH e-mails. The WH interpretation of precedent probably goes something like this: the only time the issue was ever truly forced was in US v Nixon when there was a crime under investigation, all the others are where the WH caved before it got to that stage. So, so long as they can stonewall and blow enough smoke to confuse the issue of whether in fact the Congress is investigating some criminal act, they can refuse to respond to subpoenas to turdblossom abd company. The guiding principle is that the President arrogates to himself each and every prerogative of government he sees fit to (including rewriting and arbitrarily enforcing the laws as he sees fit with signing statements) so long as no one successfully challenges him. So far, no one has.

Kathy wrote on March 22, 2007 4:39 PM:

Impeachment may be 'off the table' but it is simmering on the stove. In the end, Ms. Pelosi will have to do what the American People want her to do.

Sholom wrote on March 22, 2007 4:47 PM:

"The only reason that you'd throw out this kind of rhetoric is that there is something that they desperately do not want disclosed."

And also hope that the right wing echo machine repeates the meme, in the hope that some of the public will buy it (see, e.g., "Plame was not covert and there was no underlying crime", "science is undecided about climate change", and so forth).

As I wrote in another thread, I can see it now, some guys holding up their copies of the Constitution and saying: "show me where the word oversight is", etc.

Yes, it is an obvious implied right, but it's not explicit. The wingnuts are probably thinking, "well, we might as well run with this and see how it flies."

Only public and media pressure will defeat this kind of thing.

frankly0 wrote on March 22, 2007 4:56 PM:

One perfectly obvious objection to this line of reasoning would seem to be what took place in the Watergate investigations.

Clearly, Congress had extensive access into what went on inside the Nixon WH. If it had not, the Watergate conspiracy would likely never have come to a head as it did.

On what grounds might Bush be less subject to Congressional oversight than Nixon?

Hank Essay wrote on March 22, 2007 5:01 PM:

Somewhere in the White House exists a Prof. John Yoo memo which will explain all of this....He chose his words for a particular reason. That we can be sure of....

Ian wrote on March 22, 2007 5:03 PM:

say they can gum things up enough to hold this off until after the next election, would this be able to be investigated by the next administration? I guess I'm wondering what they gain by delaying. Hoping that it just goes away?

Honestly, I don't think they're going to be able to blow enough smoke to obscure this one. I think what people forget is that Bush and Cheney are incredibly unpopular, and the Media certainly don't dewll on the fact that this their base of popular support is so very small. This must make the more rational Republicans worried about their prospects in the upcoming elections....

frankly0 wrote on March 22, 2007 5:05 PM:

Think of it this way:

If even Nixon, in the depths of his corruption in Watergate, finally accepted that his aides would have to testify in public sessions before Congress, how much more sinister and crooked would Bush have to be to resist even this?

Jake Bryan wrote on March 22, 2007 5:11 PM:

I think dmh has the right idea. A suitable response from Congress at this point is a refusal to fund the EOP unless subpoenas are complied with.

Yikes wrote on March 22, 2007 5:14 PM:

John Bolton used the same argument on The Daily Show. Somehow this will have a chilling effect on people giving the president advice!!!!!

Bob wrote on March 22, 2007 5:15 PM:

This WH dance all sounds familiar:

We have the absolute right; you can't see the evidence; the proceedings must be in secret, with no witnesses nor record.

Yes, I'm talking about this Administration's "process" for dealing with "enemy combatants."

Jim T wrote on March 22, 2007 5:15 PM:

Snow is living up to his name. Thank the stars the WH Press Corps has finally grown a spine these past several months, and force him to give insights behind the canned remarks. NO OVERSIGHT? Last I looked, this was no monarchy, as much as Rove, Cheney, and Bush would like to think of the Presidency. I would say Watergate, and Iran Contra, two of the worst scandals in the history of this country, prove him wrong. Oh yeah, why is it the biggest political scandals happen during a Republican administration? Right now, the conservatives are hauling the dead horse out to beat again..CLINTON!! LOL...Let's see, sexual misconduct that had nothing to do with the operations of the goverment vs. Nixon's antics, or the purposeful illegal actions of the Iran Contra folks. I can't wait for the elections in 2008...

bibimimi wrote on March 22, 2007 5:26 PM:

Tony keeps barking at the press that he's not a lawyer.

His credentials as a constituional scholar are also suspect.

And after the raft of backtalk and invective he gave Harry Smith this morning, he's a pee-poor press sec'y.

WC wrote on March 22, 2007 5:32 PM:

Considering that Congress can impeach a sitting President and remove him from office, which IS in the Constitution, I'm sorry, Tony, but you don't know what the hell you are talking about when you say Congress "does not have constitutional oversight responsibility over the White House."

Congress just may "oversight" your asses out of the White House.

SamD wrote on March 22, 2007 5:32 PM:

Tony Snow is beginning to sound like Baghdad Bob. Napoleon only crowned himself, while Bush is deifying himself by declaring that he doesn't even answer to God.

Impeach, my friends, the AG, the VP, and the POTUS.

SLOUCH wrote on March 22, 2007 5:34 PM:

"Somehow this will have a chilling effect on people giving the president advice!!!!!"

WTF! Just look at that argument. It's ludicrous! A chilling effect is PRECISELY the reason for oversight: It's supposed to discourage people from advising the President to do illegal, immoral, unethical, or otherwise indefensible things!

secret code = memory (golly those are fun!)

phil james wrote on March 22, 2007 5:35 PM:

Jim T

Last I looked, this was a monarchy, for all intents and purposes that is, from Jan 2001 until Nov 2006. The unitary executive still reigns and the crown will be yielded only extremely reluctantly. Oh where are the adoring crowds?

Agjobs wrote on March 22, 2007 5:39 PM:

Hell Bagdad Bob made more sense than Snowjob. And was more convincing and less delusional!

C. Golding wrote on March 22, 2007 5:45 PM:

Oh Good God. CHECKS and BALANCES anyone?

Proud American Patriot wrote on March 22, 2007 5:56 PM:

To all you all you loony, left-wing liberals out there... the term "Commander in Chief" is not just a catchy phrase.

Ari Rutenberg wrote on March 22, 2007 6:00 PM:

I believe this should cover it. This is an excerpt from Article I, Section 8 of the Unites States Contsitution "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof." The line "Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof" clearly covers the President, who is indeed an officer of the government. It says all powers vested in the government, not the legislative branch. IF the congress decides a law is necessary giving them the power to subpoena the Presidents aides, this is certainly covered by this section. If they would only read the document instead of looking at the words they might actually understand what i means.

Kal wrote on March 22, 2007 6:07 PM:

Surely none of you expects the WH to permit Rove to be questioned under oath? The Congress would not permit him to keep running back and correcting the lie he told the last time.

At some point the GOP will conclude that Bush/Cheney/Rove/Meirs/Gonzalez must leave before they destroy the party. Backing people you will harm you if you don't meekly go along is the easiest way for the GOP to eliminate itself.

Anonymous wrote on March 22, 2007 6:07 PM:

It's good to be the king.

sam wrote on March 22, 2007 6:09 PM:

didnt clinton fire a few prosecutors during his term? where was the leftist outrage then? The president has the right to fire prosecutors without Congress's consent, so shut the fuck up and get over it!

D.T. Nave wrote on March 22, 2007 6:09 PM:

I think Tony best go back and learn his basic constitution (remember 11th grade?).
Odd, they did not seem to think this way when Bill Clinton was president. The Republicans were wanting sworn testomonial and hearings if he so much as dropped a gum wrapper.
And, if he messed around in his office, it was grounds for impeachment.
Give me a break!

DrJazz wrote on March 22, 2007 6:11 PM:

To Proud American Patriot. It's Commander in Chief of the armed forces not of the entire government or the country or the world. And who's looking loony now? Your adored president is an ignorant, incompetant nut-job, surrounded by criminals and bootlickers.

Ari Rutenberg wrote on March 22, 2007 6:12 PM:

And for Proud American Patriot, who posted while I was writing. Indeed Commander-in-Chief is not just a catchy phrase, and neither are any of the other words in the constitution. Nowhere does it say that being CinC(the military abbreviation for commander-in-chief) allows the President to do anything he wants. Nor does the constitution grant him all war making powers. In fact Article I, which covers the congress (notice how its article I and the article establishing the Presidency is article II, clearly establishing primacy of the legislative branch as the main representatives of the sovereign people)Section 8 says the following:
"To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;"
Notice the parts about regulating captures on land and water, meaning Bush cant designate enemy combatants without congressional approval. And also please notice where it says to make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces. So though he is CinC, his power is restricted, even in a time of war, which this is technically not since congress never declared war in Iraq or Afghanistan or against terrorism.
Though I suppose this is all moot anyway since the current scandal about fired Us Attorneys has nothing to do with his powers as CinC anyway, but hey I guess I'm not a real patriot since I chose to follow the constitution instead of the man who occupies the oval office.

Michael Houghton wrote on March 22, 2007 6:12 PM:

Checks and Balances are both in Gitmo. Denying everything while someone flushes the constitution down the toilet in plain sight.

CinReno wrote on March 22, 2007 6:13 PM:

You're right, PAP, Commander in Chief is not just a catchy phrase.

Nor is it something you throw out when you want to sound patriotic.

Mostly, though, it's just not a phrase that in any way applies to this situation.

Jason357 wrote on March 22, 2007 6:14 PM:

There you go. The Bush legacy of authoritarian government and hypocrisy. I never saw Snow take that approach during Clinton's term, when the GOP congress was dragging White Aides through the mud over a BJ in the oval office. Ay least when it comes to tyranny and corruption, the GOP goes all out. Nixon, now Baby Bush.

Craig wrote on March 22, 2007 6:15 PM:

Yes - commander in chief of the armed forces in a time of war... I'm not serving in the armed forces. He's not my commander in chief.

Bush is an "elected" government official who serves for a defined term. He has an obligation to faithfully execute the laws enacted by congress - subject to a veto power.

He is not a king and there has not yet been an overt junta which would make Bush "commander in chief" of the country.

KKat wrote on March 22, 2007 6:19 PM:

Does "Tony Snow," Android # AS-GWB-67577, with his plastic face and plasticine smile, still have a shred of self-awareness left in him/it? He's a bigger shill and liar than Ari and Scott.

So, Congress Has No "Oversight Responsibility over the White House"? The hell they don't, Tony Tumor. What you fear and what the Bush Junta fears above all is that not only might they be taken to task for firing eight justices on loyalty grounds, but that the subpoenas are the first step in blowing open the entire, rotten, festering, squishy, mouldy pumpkin of the Bush Regime's corruption.

DrJazz wrote on March 22, 2007 6:19 PM:

Well Sam, the president does indeed have the right to fire prosecutors without Congress's consent. He just doesn't have the right to do it in order to obstruct justice. You need to get some better talking points from Rush than that one.

Ian wrote on March 22, 2007 6:22 PM:

I wonder if Josh has been able to see how many visits from DOJ and WH domains there have been to this site.

owenz wrote on March 22, 2007 6:22 PM:

"Evidently, Mr. Clinton wants to shield virtually any communications that take place within the White House compound on the theory that all such talk contributes in some way, shape or form to the continuing success and harmony of an administration. Taken to its logical extreme, that position would make it impossible for citizens to hold a chief executive accountable for anything. He would have a constitutional right to cover up."

-- Tony Snow - Op-Ed - St. Louis Post-Dispatch, March 29, 1998

Gregory T. Sagan wrote on March 22, 2007 6:23 PM:

No, no, no, Tony.

Congress DOES have "oversight" reponsibility.

What it doesn't have is "overlook" responsibility.

Fool.

Alex wrote on March 22, 2007 6:24 PM:

Tony Snow completely skipped Social Studies class.

RKMcKee wrote on March 22, 2007 6:29 PM:

Impeachment Now!!!!!!!!

ARREST CHENEY BUSH NOW wrote on March 22, 2007 6:34 PM:

Assmalistration to America:

"Love It Or Leave It."

America to Assmalistration:

"100% CORRECT. YOU ARE BOTH UNDER ARREST."

E. Setser wrote on March 22, 2007 6:35 PM:

Does anyone know what the punishment is for impeachment? Is it the same for treason?

Mark wrote on March 22, 2007 6:38 PM:

Proud American Patriot is in fact one of the right wing PNAC-loving crowd. Only people like him ignore facts and simply spout Republican talking points such as: wingnuts, looneys, and liberals. Only those kind of people.

They have no morals. They have no need for reality. They have no need for laws. They certainly have never actually read the US Constitution. Most of them have never served in the armed forces. They are the exact opposite of what is good and right about America.

Proud American Patriot, my ass. You are nothing of the sort. We see thru your bluster. You're nothing more than a schoolyard bully. You're a redneck. A mentally disturbed redneck that loves George W. Bush's all hat and no cattle swagger.

Liz B. wrote on March 22, 2007 6:39 PM:

To Sam:

Actually, all US Attorneys submit their resignations at the beginning of a new president's term. The new president then appoints his own US Attorneys. What Clinton did was just normal. In fact, GW Bush did it, too, when he was elected in 2000. THIS, however, firing 8 US attorneys midterm is unprecedented. Clinton fired one in the middle of his presidency, and so did Carter. That's why there is such a stink.

Lord Garth wrote on March 22, 2007 6:39 PM:

"didnt clinton fire a few prosecutors during his term? where was the leftist outrage then? The president has the right to fire prosecutors without Congress's consent, so shut the fuck up and get over it!

Posted by: sam
Date: March 22, 2007 06:09 PM"

"sam" just isn't keeping up, is he? Will someone explain it to him? I'm not in the mood to educate another slack-jawed Bushie.

vernonlee wrote on March 22, 2007 6:39 PM:

I paused my Tivo while watching yesterday's presser and caught Tony mid-grimace as he described members of Congress who plan to pursue subpoenas.

Should anyone be interested, I put up a photo here:

http://vernonlee.blogspot.com/2007/03/lifting-veil.html

Liz B. wrote on March 22, 2007 6:44 PM:

Here's a problem I heard on the radio this morning. If the Congress issues subpoenas for the executive branch, and the executive branch refuses to comply, then the next step would be to present the subpoenas to . . . uh, the US Attorney for Washington D.C., who apparently was not fired for not being a Bush administration puppet. He (or she) can refuse to enforce the subpoenas. What then? Apparently, nothing, because if the US Attorney refuses to enforce the subpoena, there's no place else to go.

eplebneesta wrote on March 22, 2007 6:52 PM:

Begin in depth investigations into the voting process NOW. There is no way in the world that this gang of thugs in the WH is going to yield the power that they've concentrated into the unitary executive to anyone besides their hand picked successor. Does anyone think that there is the slightest chance that Cheney would allow Hillary to wield the power the Dubya has now? Hillary says, "I declare Bush and Cheney to be enemy combatants since the accepted contributions from a confessed terrorist supporter."
Not gunna happen. Read my lips: no Dem presidents.

skip edwards wrote on March 22, 2007 6:54 PM:

Mr. Snow job just announced that the tanks have been sent to the halls of congress to prevent any oversight over what the Bush junta is doing! Next he will announce that marshall law is in effect to protect Mr. Karl Rove's secret governemnt!

hank wrote on March 22, 2007 7:03 PM:

Hey Republicans, put down your Bibles for a minute and spend some time reading the United States Constitution. You may actually learn something for a change.

MediaFreeze wrote on March 22, 2007 7:04 PM:

OH YES THEY DO!

It called "inherent" Contempt of Congress where the trial occurs in the House or Senate and the perp gets locked up in the Capital Jail until he talks.

A very complete discussion of the power can be found in this excellent diary by TerribleTom on dKos:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/22/16552/9412

Anonymous wrote on March 22, 2007 7:05 PM:

precedents, not precedence

bob wrote on March 22, 2007 7:05 PM:

I think everyone is forgetting that the congress can REFUSE TO FUND the EXECUTIVE BRANCH if they do not play ball. Drastic but what else have they? Fuck em. Shut them down if they dont play ball. Shut the fuckers down.

my word is 'rain'

bill wrote on March 22, 2007 7:06 PM:

Tony Snow is a former FAUX "right win nutcase. He is condesending and I'd say not a "snowjob" but a Bl--job!

Anonymous wrote on March 22, 2007 7:09 PM:

Jesus H. Christ. Bush is so f**cking dumb. He keeps hiring dipsh*ts who can barely read, much less do a competent job. 300,000,000 people in the USA and he hires Snow, Miers, Rice, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, Brown, etc. What a dumb*ss. Ever heard about hiring people who can actually do their job? But then again, he can't, so he won't. IDIOT.

Bruce Hayden wrote on March 22, 2007 7:11 PM:

What part of "rope" do you brain-dead SOBS not get?

Mary wrote on March 22, 2007 7:14 PM:

I was amazed to hear Bush say that the US Attorney's "serve at our pleasure." Is that the royal "we"? I have thought ever since the day after the 2004 election that this guy doesn't intend to leave office ever. He was scary that day when he said he had earned political capital and he intended to spend it. George, you are bankrupt now.

Dan wrote on March 22, 2007 7:18 PM:

Question. If the president has the authority to hire and fire U.S. Attorneys at will, as President Clinton did with ALL 93, then why do the democrats think they have the authority to get involved with this matter?

Answer. Because they have no power to get anything passed a presidetial veto so they'll just entertain us for the next two years with useless investigations.

bushblowscheney wrote on March 22, 2007 7:30 PM:

This was no misstep by snowjob. He's parroting what he's heard inside the white house. They are confirmation that my worst private fears that the administration's intentions are to subvert the constitution and the bill of rights. Unless these words are renounced by Bush himself and Snow is immediately fired, we should all march on the white house and take our government back by any means available to us.

Par wrote on March 22, 2007 7:30 PM:

Because obstruction of justice is a CRIME, Dan.

And by the way, it's "past".

Dan wrote on March 22, 2007 7:34 PM:

Hey Par,

What justice is being obstructed? It is not Congress' business why the WH hires and fires the U.S. Attorneys.

Jack Frost wrote on March 22, 2007 7:35 PM:

I saw this quote on wikipedia, and it pretty much sums it up:

"One of the foremost non-legislative functions of the Congress is the power to investigate and to oversee the executive branch."

Dan wrote on March 22, 2007 7:40 PM:

The same "wikipedia" that recently reported that Sinbad the comedian was dead?

Jack Frost wrote on March 22, 2007 7:41 PM:

@Dan.

Yes, INCOMING Presidents have fired as many as all 93, and there's nothing wrong with that. Bush himself did at the beginning of his term.

But this isn't about the fact that they got fired mid-term, which in and of itself is unusual. Rather, this is about the reasons given for their dismissal. Some were fired for not charging Democrats with something before the mid-term elections. Others were fired for prosecuting Republicans.
It sure sounds like they were fired for not playing ball with the WH's sleazy partisan tactics. And THAT is what this is about.

Now, on the subject of the WH's "offer" let me make this statement:
"The ONLY reason not to testify under oath, is if you're not planning on telling the truth."

Jack Frost wrote on March 22, 2007 7:47 PM:

@Dan, again.

Wikipedia itself is not up for debate here, nor is the accuracy of what is written there.

The quote I chose, I chose because it summed up what I was about to say in a longer post, hence my usage of the words "pretty much sums it up".

I don't care if who wrote it is a legal scholar, or even where it was posted. The sentence summed up my point, thus I used it. I didn't see you provide a counter argument. You attack the messenger and try to divert attention from what's being said. A typical tactic of someone who can't argue their case on the merits (very common amongst dittoheads regardless of their political beliefs).

Anonymous wrote on March 22, 2007 7:58 PM:

Don't feed the trolls...

Risky wrote on March 22, 2007 8:07 PM:

Proud American Patriot,

Maybe you ought to go back to civics class because the title of Commander in Chief refers to the President's leadership of the armed forces and has no relevance on the issue of oversight. President is the political title CinC is a military title, back when it was assumed that the President understood how the military functions and didn't spend the 70s snorting cocaine off the bathroom floor when he was supposed to be in the Texas National Guard.

The president does not rule over congress. And, these cretins aren't being subpoenaed because they gave advice...they are being subpoenaed because there is substantial evidence that they were active participants in illegal and unconstitutional acts.

Dan wrote on March 22, 2007 8:09 PM:

Jack,

I attacked your source, not you. And yes, your source is up to debate if the quote isn't an accurate representation of Congress' job.

Oh, and thanks for the personal attack. I had no idea I was a "dittohead".

Archangel wrote on March 22, 2007 8:10 PM:

Impeach this bOZO, ALREADY.

Daniel O'Keefe wrote on March 22, 2007 8:12 PM:

Have any of you asked yourself why President Clinton fired all US attorneys at the start of his first term? Is there no suggestion of any politcal motives on his part? That he may have fired all to provide cover for fact he put a "Friend of Bill" attorney in place in Arkansas to stave off a Whitewater investigation doesn't matter? I am an independent (actually voted for Bill Clinton twice) and read both conservative and liberal blogs and the one clear difference I find between the two is this: at least the conservatives openly debate facts with each other (they might be wrong in their conculsions at times but at least I respect them for openly debating facts and issues) where I find the liberal blogs are largely just full of emotional tirades that steer clear of the facts. There was no crime here: the President can fire US attorneys at will. Yes, Richard Nixon was a criminal and should have been and was investigated. But do you people ever see any rational for a Republican president to invoke executive privilege or are you just so consumed with anger you can't come to rational conclusions when it involves a Republican?

Jack Frost wrote on March 22, 2007 8:20 PM:

@Dan,

I didn't call you a dittohead, I merely pointed out that your response was typical of dittoheads.
How you take that is up to you.

@Daniel O'Keefe,
Reading would help. This has been covered. An incoming President firing US Attorneys is normal. It's expected. Clinton firing the attorneys was not political, it was tradition.
Firing 9 of them mid-term for poorly justified reasons, and in many cases with half-assed reasons given after the fact, is a matter that needs to be examined.

Get with the program people..

Risky wrote on March 22, 2007 8:20 PM:

Daniel O'Keefe,

I understand what you are trying to say, BUT you are incorrect. Yes, Clinton did fire a large number of US attorney's AT THE START of his administration. To fire US attorney's this many during a term is unprecedented. In fact, if you go back in history, the only attorney's who got fired during a president's term were fired because of their personal illegal actions and certainly not politically motivated. The Bushies fired 8 in one week. There haven't been 8 fired in the last 25 years. If Bush had fired these attorney's at the beginning of his (uh-um) election, then no problem...standard procedure. But when a president fires US attorney's during his administration when they start looking into the wrong-doing of his political party, that is wrong, illegal, and unconstitutional. This is not so different than how Rome fell. When leaders refuse to abide by the rules of democracy and declare their supremacy over other branches of government, the republic is lost.

Jack Frost wrote on March 22, 2007 8:23 PM:

@Dan,

also, I don't care what you think is "accurate" or not. I was posting my opinion. Out of courtesy, I pointed out the source of my quote. The source is irrelevant. The quote itself is the point.
You haven't argued that point, you attacked the source.
If I had left out mentioning the source from which I copied the quote, would you have argued the point on its merits, or would you have looked for other irrelevant things to attack? Would you even have replied in the first case?
Seeing as you still haven't so much as offered a single argument with a countering opinion that didn't involve a red-herring or a strawman of some kind, I think it's fair to say you don't know what you're talking about and you're just regurgitating GOP talking points.

Win wrote on March 22, 2007 8:24 PM:

This whole thing is an effort to keep the public eye off of the real issues - both the Republicans and Democrats are using this charade to confuse the public - and it's working. Rove is a sick genius.

Jim wrote on March 22, 2007 8:27 PM:

In affirming Congress' oversight powers, the Supreme Court in McGrain v. Daugherty stated that "the power of inquiry – with process to enforce it – is an essential and appropriate auxiliary to the legislative function." In Watkins v. United States the Court described Congress' oversight power by stating that the "power of the Congress to conduct investigations is inherent in the legislative process. That power is broad." The Supreme Court also observed that "a legislative body cannot legislate wisely or effectively in the absence of information respecting the conditions which the legislation is intended to affect or change." The Legislative Reorganization Act of 1946 mandated that House and Senate committees exercise "continuous watchfulness" of the administration of laws and programs under their jurisdiction. The Legislative Reorganization Act of 1970 permitted House standing committees to "review and study, on a continuing basis, the application, administration and execution of laws" under its jurisdiction.

From http://www.rules.house.gov/archives/comm_gp_cong_oversight.htm

DreadPirate KRRead wrote on March 22, 2007 8:27 PM:

In my view, Snowjob just exposed the WH strategy and intent to contest the subpoenas by taking this to the Supreme Court on "constitutional grounds".

Demented as their justification for this would be asserted, the Bushies clearly hope to depend on their buddies; SC Justices Robert, Alito and Scalia, to succumb to their pressure and this subversion of American justice.

Dan wrote on March 22, 2007 8:29 PM:

The president can hire and fire U.S. Attorneys at any time for any reason. Where the president is in his term is irrelevant. This is a non story, and just more proof of liberal hatred for this president.

John Guerra wrote on March 22, 2007 8:30 PM:

I can't add much to the excellent comments entered by those above, except that it's not strange at all that someone like Tony Snow would say such a ridiculous thing. The reasons I'm not surprised is this:
Tony Snow's start in "journalism" was at the Washington Times, which has only hired second- and third-rate reporters since its launch. Snow is the reporter who wrote the articles containing "details" about the Clinton staff's "trashing" of Air Force One and alleged trashing of White House offices and theft of White House furniture by the Clintons before Bush entered office. Turns out, Sbow made it all up, including during interviews and in columns he wrote for the Washington Times. All fantasy, every bit of it. Now he's the White House spokesman, and he hasn't got the knowledge, the training, the understanding. But that's OK for this White House. He never learned Civics 101.

Second, the Bush administration is FILLED with people who don't understand anyhing about government, including Bush himself. There is no policy arm of experts anywhere near this administration, but political operatives like Rowe, who leads them all.
From Meyers, to Gonzalez, to Brownie, to his labor secretary, to Rice ... all have been chosen because they've known Bush since he was a teen or younger. They are virtually unemployable anywhere else.
This staffing of amateurs throughout is why everything EVERYTHING is screwed up in this country. There is no policy, only the message from Bush, which is, I am THE LEADER, THERE IS NO CONSTITUTION.
]Bush really does believe the president doesn't have to answer to Congress or THE PEOPLE. Remember, he ignores polls. He's operating as a one-man show and may very well destroy this nation in a senseless and wide war in the Middle East--because everyone else operates in the normal and legal constraints of the Constitution while he doesn't, won't and doesn't understand why it's so important that the Constitution be followed.
We have a sociopath in the White House and amateurs like Tony Snow are beholden only to him and to no one else.
Sycophants led by a mental case.
Impeachment is too slow. Send a team of eight marines to the Oval Office and arrest him immediately.

=[]

Risky wrote on March 22, 2007 8:30 PM:

Win,

I disagree. This IS the issue. It's the abuse of power that paved the road to Iraq. It's the abuse of power that has allowed corruption to reach unprecedented levels, both in congress and in the private sector. It's the abuse of power that has tortured, wire tapped, and spied on Americans. This IS this issue, or at least a symptom of a very ill republic. The ONLY medicine is to hold people accountable, which means Impeachment.

Anthony Look wrote on March 22, 2007 8:37 PM:

Ok everyone focus. Repeat after me. "This is about obstruction of Justice". Keep repeating it, repeated to your friends. Thats our talking point. These "firings" were a calculted effort to prevent investigations and prosecutions. Remember "Obstruction of Justice".

Risky wrote on March 22, 2007 8:37 PM:

Dan,

Yes, the president can fire US attorneys, but not on a whim. He does need to have cause. So, he can fire them. But Congress also can also investigate. That is at the heart of oversight and having three separate branches of government. Now, if the Bushies didn't do anything wrong and they had good reasons to fire these people, then fine. Let's hear the reasons. That's called transparency. And the administration should have no problem testifying.

But, no one protests as loudly as a guilty man.

vernonlee wrote on March 22, 2007 8:55 PM:

Oy.

Is there no end to the excuses Right-Wing Authoritarians are willing to make for Bush?

It's always misdirection - I know you're saying this about Bush, but look over there! A birdie!

You see, Dan, you WANT some big manly man to be in charge, tell us what to do, and sit quietly and submit.

The rest of the 70% of the country do not.

And that's the difference between you and the rest of us.

The rest of us think BUSH works for AMERICA, not the other way around.

Too bad the noise inside the echo chamber of your own asshole is too loud for you to hear.

richard wrote on March 22, 2007 9:00 PM:

We do not believe anything they say anymore ...
Democrat or independent, no more republicans ...
Since I was in high school , a string of criminals have sold our country and taken a commmission every step of the way ...
nixon,regan,bush41,43 ...
we must stop the lying and killing ...

Dan wrote on March 22, 2007 9:04 PM:

Th president can hire and fire the U.S. Attorneys for any reason. The fact that the president has not given the Congress the reason is irrelevant. But to watch the Congress automatically assume they have some sort of oversight in this matter is humorous. If they wish to change his authority, let them. Until that happens, they're pissing in the wind.

End of story

David Fortenberry wrote on March 22, 2007 9:15 PM:

Where the president is in his term is irrelevant. This is a non story, and just more proof of liberal hatred for this president.

Come on Dan. I'll admit, I never liked the guy. He replaced a very succesful governor here in Texas (Ann Richards), and proceeded to drive the state into the ground, where it still dwells.

There is evidence of obstruction of justice, and that is a crime, and it deserves investigation.

The lies that keep changing are all the evidence that is needed to demand testimony under oath.

And don't forget that Carol Lam, who prosecuted Duke Cunningham, was expanding the investigation when she was "asked to resign".

The guy who bought him his yacht, for 140,000, had just gotten his first ever goverment contract, for 140,000, just 2 weeks before. To provide furniture and computers for Dick Cheney's office.

Something stinks like hell. And the wind is coming from Washington D.C..

Dan wrote on March 22, 2007 9:17 PM:

Where justice is being obstructed?

And what "lies" keep changing? The Administration has not, and is not obligated, to explain why these 8 were fired.

Bruce warner wrote on March 22, 2007 9:18 PM:

i wonder what it is that Bush has on these people that gets them to make theses outrageously false and delusional statements.

Dr. Donald B. MacGowan wrote on March 22, 2007 9:18 PM:

It doesn't take a scientist, although I am one, to understand that this is either a case of malicious ignorance or aggressive stupidity.

Or he's just lying again.

Ahem....Mr Snow? Y'all might want to mosey over to fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL30240.pdf [fas.org] and take a gander at this here, before y'all go shootin' yer mouth off again and makin' y'sef and yer boss look dumber'n usual.

From the page: "From the Congressional Oversight Manual.

The Constitution grants Congress extensive authority to oversee and investigate executive branch activities. The constitutional authority for Congress to conduct oversight stems from such explicit and implicit provisions as:

1. The power of the purse. The Constitution provides that 'No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law.' Each year the Committees on Appropriations of the House and Senate review the financial practices and needs of federal agencies. The appropriations process allows the Congress to exercise extensive control over the activities of executive agencies. Congress can define the precise purposes for which money may be spent, adjust funding levels, and prohibit expenditures for certain purposes.

2. The power to organize the executive branch. Congress has the authority to create, abolish, reorganize, and fund federal departments and agencies. It has the authority to assign or reassign functions to departments and agencies, and grant new forms of authority and staff to administrators. Congress, in short, exercises ultimate authority over executive branch organization and generally over policy.

3. The power to make all laws for 'carrying into Execution'Congress's own enumerated powers as well as those of the executive. Article I grants Congress a wide range of powers, such as the power to tax and coin money; regulate foreign and interstate commerce; declare war; provide for the creation and maintenance of armed forces; and establish post offices. Augmenting these specific powers is the so-called 'Elastic Clause,' which gives Congress the authority 'To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.' Clearly, these provisions grant broad authority to regulate and oversee departmental activities established by law.

4. The power to confirm officers of the United States. The confirmation process not only involves the determination of a nomineeâ's suitability for an executive (or judicial) position, but also provides an opportunity to examine the current policies and programs of an agency along with those policies and programs that the nominee intends to pursue.

5. The power of investigation and inquiry. A traditional method of exercising the oversight function, an implied power, is through investigations and inquiries into executive branch operations. Legislators often seek to know how effectively and efficiently programs are working, how well agency officials are responding to legislative directives, and how the public perceives the programs. The investigatory method helps to ensure a more responsible bureaucracy, while supplying Congress with information needed to formulate new legislation.

6. Impeachment and removal. Impeachment provides Congress with a powerful, ultimate oversight tool to investigate alleged executive and judicial misbehavior, and to eliminate such misbehavior through the convictions and removal from office of the offending individuals."

David Fortenberry wrote on March 22, 2007 9:37 PM:

And what "lies" keep changing? The Administration has not, and is not obligated, to explain why these 8 were fired.
Posted by: Dan

Do you even read the real news? AG may be even be up for perjury charges.
The administration HAS, in spite of your ignorance, tried to explain why these USA's were fired, and been proven to be liars.
That justifies an investigation of "shrub" and his handlers.
And they are obligated, even though the feel they are hitler in his prime.
Squashing an investigation that reaches to the administration IS obstruction of justice.
I'm guessing you failed civics class.

Dan wrote on March 22, 2007 9:53 PM:

David,

Thanks for the ad hominem attack. Now, please tell me how it is not the president's authority to hire and fire the U.S. Attorneys at will.

Also, what is the reason the WH has given for the firings?

Macman wrote on March 22, 2007 10:06 PM:

I agree with Slouch; transparency in government minimizes the corruption, especially with government officials advising the WH, the chilling effect of knowing that America is watching"PRECISELY the reason for oversight: It's supposed to discourage people from advising the President to do illegal, immoral, unethical, or otherwise indefensible things!" This administration doesn't have that, no checks and balances thanks to a sleeping Republican Congress. Now people will be held accountable in government, the way they should be.

Obstruction of Justice is the issue here. Playing politics. BUT my question is, how will Congress prove that these firings broke the law, as in actually obstructing prosecutions and against crooked politicians the WH is trying to save? Do they hold there own trial? and if they discover illegal wrongdoing, what then?

Cititzen J wrote on March 22, 2007 10:22 PM:

Both President Bush and Karl Rove have argued that the administration’s U.S. Attorney purge is a “normal and ordinary” process that was also carried out by President Clinton. ThinkProgress has spent some time debunking this claim, but the Congressional Research Service has put the nail in the coffin.

A CRS report released yesterday examines the tenure of all U.S. Attorneys who were confirmed by the Senate between the years 1981 and 2006 to determine how many had served — and, of those, how many had been forced to resign for reasons other than a change in administration.

The answer:

– Of the 468 confirmations made by the Senate over the 25-year period, only 10 left office involuntarily for reasons other than a change in administration prior to the firings that took place in December.

– In virtually all of those 10 previous cases, serious issues of personal or professional conduct appeared to be the driving issue…

http://thinkprogress.org/

Cititzen J wrote on March 22, 2007 10:31 PM:

Sorry, more specifically:

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/03/20/crs-clinton-attorney-purge/

Cititzen J wrote on March 22, 2007 10:37 PM:

Former Rep. Bob Barr (R-GA), who served as a U.S. Attorney under President Reagan, appeared today on CNN.

Barr blasted the White House, saying “the integrity of the Department of Justice is being used as a political football by the administration to prove who’s the toughest hombre in all this.” Rather than fighting accountability, Barr said, “the administration really ought to be going out of its way to do what prior administrations have done, such as the Bush 1 administration and Reagan administrations, and that is take whatever steps are necessary to assure the American people that the integrity of our justice system has not been compromised.”

Barr added that members of Congress “have a pretty clear right to demand information” related to the U.S. Attorney purge. “These, after all, are all people, whether Karl Rove or a U.S. Attorney or an attorney general, who are paid by the taxpayers with funds appropriated by the Congress. And Congress has a right to assure itself that these funds are being used properly.”
...

"CNN: That all being said, if the president were to call you a little bit later on this afternoon, what type of advice would you give him for this particular situation?

BARR: If course, I’d have to pick myself up off of the floor.

CNN: He doesn’t call you all the time?

BARR: But I would certainly say, Mr. President, your predecessors in office, your father was under great pressure when I was U.S. Attorney General in Atlanta, Georgia, to take action against me for political reasons. Your father resisted those efforts. President Reagan, your supposed hero, resisted those efforts. Please do something to assure the American public that this is an open process, that it is not run on political considerations where the rubber meets the road and that’s with the United States Attorneys across this country. Work with the congress. and let’s see if we can work this out. Because there’s far more at stake here than either you or the attorney general proving who’s the toughest hombre in this dispute."

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/03/21/barr-attorney-purge/

Cititzen J wrote on March 22, 2007 10:40 PM:

Last September, CREW named Rep. Rick Renzi as one of the most corrupt members of Congress in our report, "Beyond DeLay." Last October, the Associated Press reported that Renzi was under federal investigation for a land deal. In December, Paul Charlton, the U.S. Attorney in Arizona who was investigating Renzi, was fired. Speculation is growing about whether the Renzi investigation led to Charlton's dismissal:

In October, Justice Department officials confirmed that Renzi was the subject of an inquiry into a land swap that would benefit a friend and business associate. Renzi has denied any wrongdoing. He could not be reached Tuesday.

Renzi is a Bush loyalist. When Renzi was locked in a battle for his congressional seat last year, the president came to Arizona to campaign for him.

When the first list of U.S. attorneys targeted for ouster was drafted, Charlton's name was not on it. But his name was on a subsequent list, drafted in September. Although the Renzi inquiry was not yet public, it is likely the Justice Department was aware of the investigation, said a former U.S. attorney who is familiar with the protocol when a sitting lawmaker is involved.

"If we had anything of a major investigative nature, I would notify the Justice Department," said Melvin McDonald, who was Arizona's U.S. attorney in the Reagan administration. "Typically, that's what happens."

The newest e-mails, memos and other records raise fresh questions about whether there were political motivations for Charlton's ouster, as the documents indicate that Justice Department officials were still - after the fact - trying to settle on a complete explanation for why Charlton was called on Dec. 7 and told to resign.

http://blog.citizensforethics.org/node/743

chuckles wrote on March 22, 2007 10:53 PM:

I wonder if he wishes he were back at FOX? That had to be better than this job.

David wrote on March 22, 2007 11:06 PM:

It is his scope to fire USA's at his will, Dan.
But to fire them for investigating and prosecuting repugs, or failing to indict dems on bogus charges, is against the law.
I didn't mean to attack you, but you reich wingers make it so easy and obvious it's hard to resist.
And the reason the WH gave for the resignations was for performance issues, even though all except one were given good to absolute glowing performance reviews.
They were too good at what they do. That is a definate no-no in this administration, where incompetence is a badge of honor.

bob frisby wrote on March 22, 2007 11:13 PM:

...here comes another false flag op...and then
martial law...and then...so freaking sad.

Paul wrote on March 22, 2007 11:45 PM:

How about the seperation of powers. Why is violating the Constitution so natural for this Democratic Congress? And hypocritical when you compare it to Clinton's move to fire 93 U.S. attorneys while the White Water investigation was going on?

phil james wrote on March 22, 2007 11:48 PM:

BARR: But I would certainly say, Mr. President, your predecessors in office, your father was under great pressure when I was U.S. Attorney General in Atlanta, Georgia, to take action against me for political reasons. Your father resisted those efforts. President Reagan, your supposed hero, resisted those efforts. Please do something to assure the American public that this is an open process, that it is not run on political considerations where the rubber meets the road and that’s with the United States Attorneys across this country. Work with the congress. and let’s see if we can work this out. Because there’s far more at stake here than either you or the attorney general proving who’s the toughest hombre in this dispute."

Here's the problem with Barr's purportedly helpful response: There is no way that Bush can stand before the American people and tell them that his DOJ is not run based on political considerations and not be lying through his teeth. Period. Other than flat out lying, there IS nothing that Bush can do to reassure the public. But thanks anyway...

Anonymous wrote on March 22, 2007 11:59 PM:

Paul, read upthread for a debunking of that Clinton nonsense. Where'd you get that latest detail, Tucker?

If violating the Constitution comes so "natural" to any party, it's certainly been shown time and again it's the Republican party.

Ever Wonder wrote on March 23, 2007 12:02 AM:

I think they know exactly what they are doing. It has been the insanity of all Bush supporters(Including their voters)which have provided a certain consistency. That which has led to a concerted strength, a single-mindedness and a guarantee. It easy to argue the argument while eluding the facts. Cause confusion and move on. Lemmings do it all the time. More lemmings just keep coming. Its easy to be a lemming. Cons find it easy to die, liberals know it is better to live, even if it asks more of us.

Claire wrote on March 23, 2007 12:11 AM:

Someone should tell the Bush Admin that they really shouldn't hire people who failed civics.

DanJoaquin wrote on March 23, 2007 12:14 AM:

Hi Dan,

You're absolutely right. The President can fire US attorneys. That is not in dispute. Furthermore, the executive branch is not required to explain those firings, even though, being mid-term, they were HIGHLY unusual. If, however, the White House DOES explain the firings to Congress, as AG Gonzalez did (under bi-partisan pressure incidentally) he is ABSOLUTELY required to tell the truth. Lying to Congress is illegal. It appears Mr Gonzalez either lied or mis-spoke when he said that:

1) The Attorneys were fired over "performance" issues, when most were recently given excellent performance ratings by the DoJ, had outstanding conviction rates etc. He would have been better off saying nothing. He really didn't have to say anything. But since he did speak - and this is the crucial part Dan - he was obliged to do so truthfully. As Scooter Libby now knows, perjury is serious.
2) The second un-truth or mis-speech was his assertion that the idea for the sackings was Harriet Miers & that neither he, Karl Rove or the President had any direct involvement in the decisions. From records released we now know that was patently untrue. If it was intentionally untrue then it's perjury. If it was perjury that was intended to cover-up some other wrongdoing - then it's also obstruction of justice. Once again, Gonzalez was at that stsge under no legal obligation to say anything about who made the decision to fire the USAs. He also could have said he didn't recall. However, having chosen to speak, he was legally OBLIGED to speak truthfully.
That is what the Congress is now actually constitutionally obliged as part of its' oversight capacity to investigate.

Now, as a result of Mr.Gonzales (...ahem...) factual inaccuracies, the USAs were subpoenaed to testify about their firings. From their testimony, FoI & the public record we know that several USAs had been improperly approached by Administration officials & Republican Congress members about proposed prosecutions. Apart from the fact the desired prosecutions were of a Democratic candidates & were baseless, it is also extremely illegal for a Representative to contact a USA in this way about a prosecution. It goes to the heart of Separation of Powers. We also now know that one USA (Lam) was involved in ongoing prosecution involving senior Republicans when she was fired. Now, if it can be shown that her firing was either obstructive in or punitive for those prosecutions then that's EXTREMELY illegal as well. That's an obstruction of justice at the most serious level.

Regards.

Dave wrote on March 23, 2007 12:29 AM:

er..Paul. We've only had a democratic congress for 4 months. They are trying to enforce the constitution.
You know what the constitution is, don't you?
That would be the piece of browned paper that shrub swore to protect, but has spent the last 6 years spitting on......and he ain't texan enough to chew tobaccy....in other words, a transparent pretender.
Cutting a little brush with a chain saw doesn't make you a rancher..or a Texan.. or a cowboy.
And he sure as heck ain't an American.
I would say saudi, given his performance.
You know saudis don't you? The guy's that caused 911? And he still kisses their butts?
Explain that to me, Rush.

Dan wrote on March 23, 2007 12:54 AM:

"We also now know that one USA (Lam) was involved in ongoing prosecution involving senior Republicans when she was fired. Now, if it can be shown that her firing was either obstructive in or punitive for those prosecutions then that's EXTREMELY illegal as well. That's an obstruction of justice at the most serious level."

Posted by: DanJoaquin

Really?

"Attorney General Janet Reno fired all 93 U.S. attorneys, a very unusual practice. Republicans charged the Clintonites made the move to take U.S. Attorney Jay Stephens off the House Post Office investigation of Ways and Means Chairman Dan Rostenkowski."

"Rep. Richard K. Armey (R-Tex.) urged the administration to allow Jay B. Stephens, the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, to stay on the job until he completes his investigation of the House Post Office scandal and the role House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dan Rostenkowski (D-Ill.) may have played in it.

Stephens said Tuesday he was about a month away from "a critical decision with regard to resolution" of the probe....

Presidential spokesman George Stephanopoulos said it was not unusual for a president to ask for such resignations, although Republicans said presidents in the past have not asked for mass resignations, replacing them over a period of time as replacements were found."

http://newsbusters.org/node/11399

StrangerThanFiction wrote on March 23, 2007 1:10 AM:

Irrelevant, nice multi-syllable word, dan

Picard: I will resist you with my last ounce of strength.
Borg: Strength is irrelevant, resistance is futile, we wish to improve ourselves, we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own, your culture will adapt to service ours.
Picard: Impossible, my culture is based on freedom and self-determination.
Borg: Freedom is irrelevant, self-determination is irrelevant, you must comply.
Picard: We would rather die.
Borg: Death is irrelevant.

Anonymous wrote on March 23, 2007 1:25 AM:

Dan is too angry to think clearly and ask important questions like; "ARE our leaders going too far?" He will not ask that question to himself. Go ahead and try it Dan. Haha,..you won't and can't. Not with your present mind set. It's easier to just "wage war" with "liberals". In his present state, he wouldn't see a dictatorship coming it it was darkening the whole sky. How many,..is it about a third of the people of this country think the way Dan does? Many of them listen to Rush,..who uses terms like; the "liberal agenda" ,..odd thing,.. I am a liberal,..(and in good company,.so was Jesus. Whooaaa!! I bet that one would raise some hackels!But it's truth,.deal with it) I know of no friends of mine who are whispering anything akin to any "agenda". I see only people who are refusing to turn a blind eye toward things that are, at this stage, so blatently unlawful, that the elephant in the room demands attention.

Dan Joaquin wrote on March 23, 2007 1:37 AM:

Dan,

As has been mentioned here & elsewhere, incredibly often, asking for the resignations of all USAs is standard practice at the beginning of a new Administration. Reagan did it. Both Bushes did it. Clinton did it. Asking for resignations in the mid or 3/4 term is extremely unusual & usually for very serious misconduct.

Allegations of impropriety in the Clinton administration were investigated exhaustively. No one could say that the Republican led Congress in the Clinton years didn't take its' oversight function extremely seriously. So they should have. So should all Congresses. If Janet Reno had genuinely attempted to pervert the course of justice, obstructed justice or perjured herself, I have no doubt she would have been zealously prosecuted & convicted for doing so. Are you actually suggesting that the Republican led Congress failed to do their constitutional duty in regards to investigating or prosecuting AG Reno? That they gave her a free pass on a proveable issue of obstruction or corruption?

Dan, don't you think any Attorney General should be answerable for misleading Congress?
Equally, if it's possible that any Administration sacked USAs for either:
1. Prosecuting the guilty or
2. Failing to prosecute the innocent
Don't you think that's worthy of investigation?
Shouldn't that ALWAYS be investigated regardless of which political party is in the White House?

This isn't about partisanship. It's about the law & the Constitution.

Regards

Gelee wrote on March 23, 2007 1:47 AM:

Dan,
I have never read blogs before, but have found this quite interesting...as have been your comments and those trying to educate you. I sincerely hope you make a copy of the entire group of messages just in case a Democrat becomes our next president and repeats what is currently being done inthe Justice Department. I want you to be fully able to rebut the liberals who might take your current stance. I however intend to copy all the comments and pass them out to my United States Government classes so the students can explore the difference between yours and some others views and the U.S. constitution. Thank you for offering the real life misconceptions that exist within our electorate.

Gelee wrote on March 23, 2007 1:48 AM:

Dan,
I have never read blogs before, but have found this quite interesting...as have been your comments and those trying to educate you. I sincerely hope you make a copy of the entire group of messages just in case a Democrat becomes our next president and repeats what is currently being done inthe Justice Department. I want you to be fully able to rebut the liberals who might take your current stance. I however intend to copy all the comments and pass them out to my United States Government classes so the students can explore the difference between yours and some others views and the U.S. constitution. Thank you for offering the real life misconceptions that exist within our electorate.

Dave wrote on March 23, 2007 1:54 AM:

Hey Dan, Reagan replaced all us attorney's also. I don't hear you crying about that.

SLOUCH wrote on March 23, 2007 2:06 AM:

Please, friends, PLEASE STOP engaging the trolls.

Throughout this story the comments section at TPM Muckraker has been a VITAL and ESSENTIAL source of information and tips for the TPM staff. Were it not for some key posts here, some of the most important connections may never have materialized.

If this section gets choked off with hundreds of useless comments, one of the most powerful tools in TPM's arsenal is fatally compromised.

YOU ARE PARTICIPATING IN THE NEW FOURTH ESTATE. PLEASE TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.

We can't stop the trolls, but we can protect this resource by holding ourselves to a higher standard.

If all you have to say is F*CK BUSH, or SNOW IS A DIPSH*T, please post it somewhere else. Everyone needs to vent, but there's too much at stake here.

If you're fed up and you need to pick a fight, (sometimes we all do) there are a lot of other political forums were cyber-brawling is accepted and even encouraged.

If you're being baited, do everyone a favor and disappear. Do something worth your time, like some document diving or some calls to your D.C. folks.

This is the forum that makes things happen. Take pride in that and keep the standards high.

Dan wrote on March 23, 2007 2:45 AM:

Gelee,

You are the quintessential liberal that talking heads like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity opine about daily. Liberals always believe they have to educate those "evil" conservatives about how this government is suppose to work, all the time being completely oblivious to the fact the majority of organized corruption in government comes from the left, not to mention the left's propensity of destroying the U.S. Constitution through misinterpretation.

BTW, when Clinton fired ALL 93, I didn't care. It was his prerogative.

Kent Mueller wrote on March 23, 2007 3:22 AM:

There are some talking points here that no one is using:

Yes the US Attorneys serve at the pleasure of the President, but they do not serve at the pleasure of the Republican Party.
They are to serve "without fear or favor". Any indication of partisanship in the face of legitimate or illegitimate investigations casts doubt on everything the USAs do.
There are indications of several possible violations of U.S.C. 18 here, involving obstruction of justice at the least.
In order to claim executive privilege, then clearly the President must have been involved and in the loop. Congress is not seeking information on communications between the President and his advisors necessarily, but anything short of that is fair game.
If executive privilege extends to all executive branch employees at all times in each and every matter, then a White House custodian could use it to contest a parking ticket in DC municipal court.

Kay wrote on March 23, 2007 6:20 AM:

Dan--the issue isnt if he can fired USA's -- of course he can.

My issues: 1. DoJ officials lied/misled in sworn Congressional testimony. 2. DoJ, AG and WH have changed their stories so many times, no one knows what the truth really is. 3. USA's testified under oath to Congress they felt threaten and intimitated. 4. Two Congresspeople have admitted they personally contacted USA David Iglesis (sp?) inquiring about on-going cases and sealed indictments (a big no-no and they knew it when they did it and they know it now cause both have hired lawyers). 5. More and more info points to political pressure being applied on USA's to either reduce Republican investigations or pursue more Democratic investigations. 6. This "bunker" mentality gives the impression of hiding something.

I wish this was simply a mater of the president firing USA’s, but it doesn’t appear to be. This may prove to be absolutly nothing (man, I hope so). Or, this possibly could be a horrific attempt to rig the United States’ judicial process, or maybe just another glaring example of this administration’s stupid, incompetent cronyism.

Either way, without an honest, objective, non-partisan judicial system, we’re just another banana republic asking for more abuses to our way of life.

Dont know about you, but I want my justice blind as a bat--not threaten or intimitated into following the Party's Policies (Republican or Democratic). I want it objective, non-partisan and following the rule of law.

Now, Dan, ask yourself "What if this was Clinton we were discussing?" What side would your arguments be on then?

Gregarious wrote on March 23, 2007 6:53 AM:

Oh geezz. Here we go again.

"Teacher! Teacher! Look what mifter Snow said!!! OOOooooo hes so baaaaadddd." You libs.....end the war....like you can even see beyond your own hysterics long enough to realize you are powerless. Powerless because you want talk more than you ever have been able to act. Keep going...keep spouting this crap... long enough for us to identify every single one of you traitor assholes. We dont have ENOUGH camps for all of you

Eric wrote on March 23, 2007 7:06 AM:

When I last checked Karl Rove IS a private citizen meaning that he is like the rest of us smucks, he must testify or go to jail for contempt. Am I missing something here? Please educate me.

jhl wrote on March 23, 2007 7:18 AM:

No surprise about Snow's comments given the arrogance of the administration. Do they think they are accountable at all? I often wonder if post-9/11 fears, which led many to put blind trust in government, and particular the administration, plays a part here. Whether or not this is s perogative of the administration, there are questions that should be answered.

Though I do not believe I am powerless, Gregarious has a point - talk, talk, talk. Where are the actions? Not only that, before we ring the alarms, are we trying to understand the Constitution, and come to grips with the ambiguities there?

I am an independent. I was aggrieved over the amount of time and money spent on impeachment proceedings against Clinton. I hope the Dems in Congress are not trying to even a score here.

Dave Swaney wrote on March 23, 2007 7:21 AM:

I voted for Bush even, and I'd like to wring his neck. I can't believe the crap he pulls, and I think he's a horrible person, in his soul.

John wrote on March 23, 2007 7:30 AM:

I'm so sick of the "Clinton did it. . . " b.s. arguments. Under this view (that the president can fire any prosecutor at any time during his term for any reason or no reason, and so we should just "get over it"), Clinton could have simply fired Ken Starr. I'm glad he didn't (despite the uselessness of Starr's pornographic quest) because it set a precedent of respect for the rule of law and Congress's power of oversight over the executive branch, which precedent is now being ignored.

Paine wrote on March 23, 2007 7:45 AM:

I wanted to bring to attention a comment from the bottom of the page. This child's mentality ( I can only assume young age as any decent American with a brain that functions independently of Sean Hannity no longer holds these views as any sort of truth) is that of the modern-day Tories/Loyalists. The patriotism that they speak of is covered in filth and blood. Each person who still waves their flag in favor of our government's current weak and pathetic state should wake up every morning soaked in the death of American soldiers. They should have to crawl over piles of rotting corpses and gushing wounds to get around their home.

__________________________________________________

Oh geezz. Here we go again.

"Teacher! Teacher! Look what mifter Snow said!!! OOOooooo hes so baaaaadddd." You libs.....end the war....like you can even see beyond your own hysterics long enough to realize you are powerless. Powerless because you want talk more than you ever have been able to act. Keep going...keep spouting this crap... long enough for us to identify every single one of you traitor assholes. We dont have ENOUGH camps for all of you
Posted by: Gregarious
Date: March 23, 2007 06:53 AM

__________________________________________________

"Keep going...keep spouting this crap... long enough for us to identify every single one of you traitor assholes. We dont have ENOUGH camps for all of you." This is who we are dealing with. Blind. Deaf. Dead. There is nothing left to reason with in those that are so far gone as this one. The tyranny of this government has soaked into the minds of those who have forgotten to not let history repeat itself. They call the guradians of freedom traitors when they are the ones turning their backs on their own country. If there has ever been a time when liberty was on her death bed, that time is now.

Tulkinghorn wrote on March 23, 2007 8:02 AM:

If Rove is advising the President to commit a large-scale conspiracy to obstruct justice, it is pretty important that such advice not be privileged. If he were a private attorney there would be no privilege, although it may be pretty hard prove the conspiracy through non-privileged communications first.

It strikes me that Congress may be best off starting with low level DOJ folks and working their way up. If the DOJ folks close ranks, that would be the end of it, though.

Diane wrote on March 23, 2007 8:02 AM:

Earth to Tony Snow. Earth to Tony Snow.

Tony: Call me. I will personally pay for a tattoo of the following to be permanently inscribed on your forehead:

“This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.” PLATO

(call me)

Lena wrote on March 23, 2007 8:11 AM:

President Bush swore to uphold the constitution, then pretty much just XXXed out the parts he didn't particularly like after the fact. And whats wrong with that?

Having sex in the whitehouse is much worse.

Davis X Machina wrote on March 23, 2007 8:34 AM:

Shorter Dan, Gregarious, and others:

Il Duce ha sempre ragione.

It really is that simple.

tola wrote on March 23, 2007 9:02 AM:

i liked jon stewarts takes on this:

1) if [they] knew that someday [they] would have to testify under oath to advice [they] gave the president [they] would have to limit that advice to things that weren't shameful, illegal, or spectacularly boneheaded..

and

2)to my mind, i don't know why [they] can't just walk up to congress, put [their] hand on a bible and tell the f--ing truth

Daniel Kim wrote on March 23, 2007 9:07 AM:

Today's LA Times (March 23) has a useful article called "A history of replacing U.S. attorneys" at

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-talking23mar23,0,6549303.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Ge wrote on March 23, 2007 9:51 AM:

So does that mean by your checks and balance scheme, congress can override every branch of govt?

Checks and balances ensures that one branch can't dictate to the other branches what to do.

Congress doesn't run the whitehouse
Congress doesn't run the supreme court
Congress isn't the commander in cheif

Anonymous wrote on March 23, 2007 9:55 AM:

Read the Constitution you stupid Idiots - Congress does NOT have oversight and never has

Sean wrote on March 23, 2007 9:56 AM:

In actuality he is correct.. http://www.rules.house.gov/archives/jcoc2aq.htm

It is not enumerate in the constitution however it is implied. The Supreme Court did uphold that congress does have congressional oversight in the 20's. I agree 100% that we do need congressional oversight and not wanting it goes against everything American and the American people. I think it borders on treason.

Robert wrote on March 23, 2007 10:02 AM:

As neither a fan of the Republicans or Democrats, I'd just like to say I think a lot of people are missing something very important. The president is legally allowed to fire any and all US attorneys. Clinton demanded the resignation of every US attorney the second he stepped into office. And that was his prerogative. While I'd certainly love to know WHY Bush or Clinton fired them, we may not find out.

But the democrats seem bound and determined to try and generate "scandal" after "scandal" to score political points. Which is what this is. Nothing illegal occurred. And no one is even accusing anyone of doing anything illegal.

Also, the Congress cannot constitutionally compel the testimony of any whitehouse cabinet member about what is discussed with the president. This rule was put in place so that the presidents' staff would not be hesitant to give their advice for fear of future retribution by other politicians.

It's dangerous to set a precedent of congress stepping outside the bounds of its constitutionally prescribed powers. While it may the serve the interests of the Democratic party now, it's important to remember that the Republicans could try the same thing to a democratic president down the road.

Learn your history, and be careful of politicians who want to overreach their power under the guise of going after someone you hate. Next time, they might use those powers to do something you might not like.

Don Lingerfelt wrote on March 23, 2007 10:05 AM:

Sorry folks, Tony Snow is right. In fact, it goes beyond that: the president can do things that he feels is constitutional even if the Supreme Court disagrees. Look into a thing called "the principles of '98". There is a precedent where Jackson refused to obey an order and he just said "I'm sorry but I disagree".

Iota wrote on March 23, 2007 10:26 AM:

Yes, the president has the right to fire USAs. Yes, they serve at his "pleasure." So, if he wanted to fire 8 USAs, then why didn't he just do that? Why not just say, straight from the beginning, I fired them because I wanted to and it's my right? Why even give Congress a reason? But the reasons keep changing. First the reason is that these USAs were "underperforming." But these USAs were not underperforming - five or six of them had 95% conviction rates, were in the top ten of all USAs and had received evaluations that did not make any mention of performance issues.

It is not the act of firing that is the problem -- it's the reactions, the misinformation, the confusing stories, etc. And isn't it interesting that that there was an amendment in the re-authorized Patriot Act (which Congress has since revoked) that allowed the President to appoint new USAs without Congressional approval.

Every president before this one has had the power to fire and appoint USAs. But, in turn, the legislative branch has always held the power, dare I say, oversight, to approve or not approve the appointee. That's the system of checks and balances that was put in place in the constitution.

Those who are asking why the Democratic (barely in the majority) Congress wants to investigate this matter further, ask yourself, honestly, if the parties were reversed, (i.e., if the president were a member of the democratic party and the Congress had a republican majority), would you be for or against the need for Congressional oversight in this particular situation.

Because, eventually, there will be a president of another party in the White House. And during the past six years, the power of the executive branch has grown, and the system of checks and balances has been weakened. I do not want any future president, of any party, to have as much power as this president has accumulated. What happens now sets precedent.

Karen wrote on March 23, 2007 10:30 AM:

Actually, Congressional Oversight as such isn't mentioned in the Constitution- it's one of the "implied powers", however, it is outlined in Federalist Paper #51 and is accepted as one of the main responsibilities of the legislative branch. Ge is wrong- although it isn't in the Consitution, it has been an accepted power since the ratification.

DallasNE wrote on March 23, 2007 10:31 AM:

My dear Tony Snow, you are describing an audit function. An audit is much different than oversight. Auditors report to a board with recommendations on how to better conduct business.

Above Jim provided the following link.

http://www.rules.house.gov/archives/comm_gp_cong_oversight.htm

This link makes two very salient remarks regarding oversight. 1. Congress has the power to "investigate alleged instances of ... capricious behavior". 2. The Supreme Court in Watkins v. United States said "oversight power .. is broad".

This completely shoots down any notion that oversight is limited to possible criminal activity, though that too is included.

These ruling, for the most part, took place when Cabinet agencies had full responsibility in their respective areas. Successive Presidents have attempted to subvert these court rulings by creating departments inside the Whitehouse and beyond Congressional oversight. Such is the case here. This is a matter that should have been handled wholly within the Justice Department, subject to oversight as a "capricious behavior".

Executive priviledge is not broad like the oversight provision. It is limited to communication between the President and members of his staff. It does not cover communications between the Presidents staff and either the departments or other staff. Communications between Rove and Miers or Miers and Gonzales are not protected. Communication between Miers and Bush would be protected. (This last part is my reading rather than documented fact).

Anonymous wrote on March 23, 2007 10:50 AM:

Robert, catch a clue please: it's ILLEGAL to lie to Congress. Gonzo and his ilk have done so repeatedly over many issues, but this one specifically. You lecture us all to "learn our history", well, I'd advise YOU to study up on "Propaganda". Or perhaps, you're *already* very well educated on that subject, hmmmmm?

"Il Duce ha sempre ragione"- absolutely right. Gregarious, do you types *realize* you're authoritarian fascists, the *furthest* thing from an American?

nate wrote on March 23, 2007 10:54 AM:

Gregarious,

What the hell are you doing in this country? Don't you realize there is a wonderful place called North Korea where you actually can put people in camps for disagreeing with the government? I doubt that this country will ever live up to your ideal of repression. Your master, Bush, is trying, but the neocons have a nasty surprise waiting for them when they finally try to drop the hammer on Americans, as do you if you try to put me or anyone else in a camp. Take my advice, don't suffer under freedom any longer, you love servitude and repression, so put yourself in a camp, or sell yourself into slavery, or just move to a country like north korea where they appreciate your point of view.

Anonymous wrote on March 23, 2007 10:54 AM:

John Dean:

"The Constitution is silent regarding Congress's power to investigate the president, and his constitutional partner, the vice president. It is equally silent about the power of a president and vice president to withhold information from Congress, when it is requested."

Dean cites the responsibilities of the House Rules Committee,

"..."Congressional oversight is one of the most important responsibilities of the United States Congress," the Committee on Rules of the U.S. House of Representatives states, adding that this responsibility extends to "the review, monitoring, and supervision of federal agencies, programs and policy implementation, and it provides the legislative branch with an opportunity to inspect, examine, review and check the executive branch and its agencies." For all practical purposes, then, there is nothing that transpires within the Executive Branch that is beyond Congressional oversight."

He cites Historical Practice:

"...There is almost no area of presidential activity into which Congress has not previously made inquiry. Thus, Bush and Cheney are going to be hard-pressed to justify any refusal to cooperate with the Democratic Congress...Often, Congress folds when the president invokes executive privilege, for there is no real judicial remedy (as noted above, courts tend to punt, citing the "political question" doctrine). However, a determined Congress - or committee thereof - can prevail over a recalcitrant president (or vice president) if its members are determined and persistent...if the 110th Congress, controlled by the Democrats, fails to get the information it needs -- and the public wants -- about the workings of the Bush/Cheney presidency, it will not be because it does not have the tools with which to obtain that information. Rather, it will be because it lacks the will to use those tools."

And, finally, Dean cites Forcing Executive Compliance with Congressional Information Requests:

"...When Congress plays hardball, it gets the information it wants from the president. The Congressional Reference Service (CRS) has prepared a complete manual on oversight, which they updated recently. In the manual, CRS has laid out all Congress needs to know to crack any stonewall Bush and Cheney may erect to block their oversight efforts.

Lou Fisher, one of the authors of the CRS manual, catalogued a number of the methods available to Congress in his essay: "Congressional Access To Information: Using Legislative Will And Leverage." Drawing on historical examples, Fisher shows that Congress has a host of tools, of various size and shape and depending on the situation, to "extract information from the President."..."

http://www.law.duke.edu/journals/dlj/articles/dlj52p323.htm

sal wrote on March 23, 2007 11:10 AM:

Not sure what Mr. Snow's copy says; but mine has the following text in Article One, Section 8 under "Powers of Congress"

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

nurse diesel wrote on March 23, 2007 11:18 AM:

I see a lot of people here complain about republican echo machines reciting mindless misdirection and party lines. There are some good comments that people make, but the actual majority here seem to be uninformed liberal teenagers who spout out anti-Bush cliches and emotion-driven attacks against the conservative right.

I would not call myself an expert or a legal scholar, but the constitution does not explicitly give Congress "oversight responsibility" over the executive branch. Congress DOES exert certain powers over the executive branch, there is only a precedent for oversight responsibility, not a constitutional mandate. Chances are White House policy-makers and representatives like Tony Snow know exactly what they are saying and have actually know the constitution a hell of lot better than the most of the mindless bush-haters in here. True, the Bush administration is being sneaky, evasive, and probably power-hungry, but they are not all necessarily idiots just because Bush got average SAT scores.

Anonymous wrote on March 23, 2007 11:28 AM:

You Libs are just mad because ONE man who happens to be a rebublican has poweres EQUIL to our LIB run congress.

Get used to it! This is what the framers intended.
You guys would be screaming if a Rebublican congress was trying to control a Dem. pres.

Anonymous wrote on March 23, 2007 11:53 AM:

Republican popularity just keeps rising and rising...haha idiots.

sDow wrote on March 23, 2007 12:16 PM:

I'm pretty sure that this was a plot point in one of the George Lucas movies.

Chowderhead wrote on March 23, 2007 12:40 PM:

The funniest comments on here are those associating "childish comments" to liberals. There are a number of lengthy comments on this board, using the Constitution, showing EXACTLY why Congress has the right of oversight by "evil libs". Nothing anything by the other side except "Clinton Clinton Clinton...."

The responses by the 30 percenters are hilarious. Hopefully America can recover from the last 6 disaster-filled years.

Yellow Dog wrote on March 23, 2007 12:59 PM:

SLOUCH: Precisely. It's the thread, stupid - the trolls' purpose is to close off discussion, exchange of information and honing of arguments.

Every time you respond to them, you accomplish their goal of shutting down free speech.

It's next to impossible to resist, I know, especially when we've all seen troll-responders rise to incredible heights of eloquence.

But the price is too high. Save your eloquence, erudition and insights for original comments that ignore the trolls.

Bless you all (non-trolls) for the great service you do for this country by participating in forums like these.

Security code: Keep (As in keep the faith, and keep on keepin' on!)

blue dog wrote on March 23, 2007 2:41 PM:

you yourself are the troll who refuses to read or admit a balanced argument, only accepting points as valid if they come from "intelligent" liberals who think for themselves.

you are a hypocrite who wants to "ignore" any counter-arguments for the sake of your emotionalized ranting and your lack of ability to actually carry on an intellectual argument.

easychange wrote on March 23, 2007 2:57 PM:

why not just have bush "dissolve" congress and be done with it then? sheesh!

Chowderhead wrote on March 23, 2007 3:04 PM:

I was going to respond to the 30-percenter-post above (the empty rant that started with "you yourself are the troll who refuses...").

However, the security word that TPM has given to me to enter is ... "sheep". As in the sheep who watch Faux "news". That is the organization that based a court case on their claim that something they call "news" doesn't have to be truthful.

That says it all.

ROTFLOL!

Defender1 wrote on March 23, 2007 3:29 PM:

The laws of this country were originally written (and edited along the way) to give all the citizens a fair chance in life.

If we have become a nation of ignorance and conformity and have chosen not to care, then why should the people in power care. We are being pushed and pushed and we have yet to push back. Their arrogance along with the shameless abuse of law and questionable actions are direct results of our inactions.

The day must come when we as Defenders face down the Decider and remove him from power.

Vote: Independent or bow down to this and the next Emperor.

noblinders wrote on March 24, 2007 2:00 AM:

"While it may the serve the interests of the Democratic party now, it's important to remember that the Republicans could try the same thing to a democratic president down the road."

To this I say; if anyone tries to obstruct justice,..there should be consequences. I see a lot of comments that suggest every Dem is "just trying to cause scandel" To this I say; How bad does it have to stink before you look for the cause? I was thinking of listing all the things that smell about this administration,..but it wouldn't help. Some people, because they are so emotional, can't think clearly. If you are one who thinks "all Dems are ***-holes" or "all Rebs are ***-holes" you are part of the problem.

And to those who keep getting all tweaky over so much "talk" and "no action" This is a a place where we talk. You don't know what people in this thread, or any thread, do when they are not at their computer. You are engaging in a discourse just like us. Do you assume every one in here just sits at the comp all day doing this? Some may. But not all. Lighten up. I like reading other peoples take on things,..some are interesting,.some thought provoking,..and some are infantile. BUT,..the best part is no one can interrupt the other! WOOHOO!

"Fools argue, wise men discuss"

And one last quote,..that needs to be looked at from a nonpartisan perspective. That isn't easy if you think only YOUR party is right about everything, and others are insane,.. And no,..I am not talking about the president devulging secrets regarding national security, I am referring to questions regarding acts of unethical intent)

The quote is: "TRUTH FEARS NO QUESTION!"

True or false? If you say true,..then you are ready to answer questions anytime anyplace, without hesitation. If you think there is any "grey area" in this quote,..I'd like to hear it.

blindersoff

Bert wrote on March 25, 2007 6:41 AM:

Maybe Congress needs to engage the services of The Donald, to speak the Magic Words to the rest of BushCo: "You're Fired!"

pre amerikkkan wrote on March 25, 2007 5:26 PM:

When posters write" blah, blah, blah, if you don't agree with me. . . that's it, period. Story over." does that mean they will not post again? Please?

Roger wrote on March 27, 2007 9:45 AM:

At least Nixon resigned.

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