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Talking Points Echo
Some talking points are so good they just bear repeating.
As we've pointed out before, in brainstorming for reasons that the U.S. attorneys were fired, one Justice Department spokesperson suggested that since three of the U.S.A.s were from border districts, "you could make the connection that DoJ is unhappy with the immigration prosecution numbers in those districts."
The Justice Department took that ball and ran with it. From The Washington Post:
Another document--internal Justice Department "talking points" about the fired prosecutors--shows that Justice officials used identical language to describe alleged shortcomings in immigration enforcement by two U.S. attorneys.About Carol S. Lam of San Diego, the memo said: "Regardless of what was done by the office in this area, she failed to tackle this responsibility as aggressively and as vigorously as we expected and needed her to do." The same sentence was used for David C. Iglesias of New Mexico, except that "her" was replaced with "him."
Those talking points seem to have been assembled by Monica Goodling, who forwarded them to department official William Moschella the day before he testified before Congress last month.
But in her zeal to demonstrate Lam's failure to take that responsibility aggressively and vigorously, Goodling seems to have gotten too creative. One of the other talking points, for instance, is that 19 members of Congress "complained about her 'catch and release' policies." The only problem with that, of course, is that her office didn't have such a policy.
Catch and release refers to the Department of Homeland Security's policy of releasing captured aliens with a notice to appear before an immigration judge. It has nothing to do with U.S. attorneys.
People in the Justice Department understand that. For instance, in the documents released today is a discussion among Justice Department officials about just that point. Back in April of last year, the officials were discussing how to respond to criticisms of Lam by Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) and other Republicans. "I know the 'catch and release' thing is a DHS issue" wrote one. "The issue of catch and release is an administrative [issue], which is to say - non criminal context. The [United States attorney offices] don't get involved in this part of immigration enforcement," wrote another.
Comments (51)
ahem wrote on April 13, 2007 4:57 PM:And DOJ staff backed up Lam against Issa in August 2006, and seemed satisfied with her explanation of immigration prosecution decisions.
The workup on Lam appears to have been in two stages: one in preparing an instant rationale for her firing in fall '06, and one in prep for the hearings on firings. Goodling was Little Miss Workup, doing the equivalent of oppo research on Lam.
Seeing her use Issa's complaints to smear Lam makes me want Congress to refrain from offering her immunity. Good(ling) Little Christian is obviously a nasty piece of work.
Mrs Panstreppon wrote on April 13, 2007 5:14 PM:What goes round comes round. Bush is getting exactly what he deserves for appointing grads of third-rate law schools to important positions. Bible-based law curriculum, my ass.
I'm still trying to find out why Goodling was prosecuting low-level criminal cases out of the USA's office in Alexandria in the middle of a presidential election campaign. (Link below for case details.)
The way I read that Legal News story about Goodling, it sounded an awful lot like Monica was having an affair with former AG John Ashcroft. I sure hope Goodling was having an affair with Ashcroft. Time to take those sanctimonious Evangelical pricks down a notch or two.
TheraP wrote on April 13, 2007 5:14 PM:"catch and release"
Sounds more like a fishing expedition than "brainstorming."
But perhaps if you r e a l l y think about it, you could view these attorneys as simple "catches" and "releases." And it all occurs at the pleasure of the president. US Attorneys - treated like illegals!
docholliday wrote on April 13, 2007 5:21 PM:Ahem,
Righteousness is a powerful enabler or is it self-righteousness.
Brother Dave wrote on April 13, 2007 5:29 PM:Maybe if she had gone to a real law school she might have known who did what in the justice system. Ya think?
brenathome wrote on April 13, 2007 5:55 PM:Mrs Panstreppon!
But I do understand ... she LOOKS like she is a goody Goodling, but she's as diseased as the rest of them.
code fire
uncle vester wrote on April 13, 2007 6:02 PM:Man, the ONE time they could have just said, "They serve at the President's pleasure! We're going this because we CAN, and you can all go do what the Vice President said!"
And they didn't.
Good God Almighty.
Ellen wrote on April 13, 2007 6:03 PM:I know the talk is to let Goodling off with immunity, but I say hang her. Make an example of her. No immunity for any of these crooks. She's a big fish--unless she hand Rove over on a plate, she swings.
Nor Cal John wrote on April 13, 2007 6:29 PM:"What goes round comes round. Bush is getting exactly what he deserves for appointing grads of third-rate law schools to important positions." .... unfortunately, BushCo (tm) is not the only one stuck with what he deserves.
I don't think Senator Leahy or Congressman Conyers, or their peers, are in any mood to be throwing out any blanket immunity. IANAL, but I would be okay with immunity for the previous preparation Ms. Goodling provided to those who testified falsely (looks like guilty to me, and it is a crime), in exchange for blowing the whistle on the whole cabal (including all she knows about it). I think the line should be drawn with immunity very specifically, and not including that which we may not even know about or about any future actions taken by Ms. Goodling.
Anonymous wrote on April 13, 2007 6:33 PM:Actually, the WaPost got it at least partially wrong. While Goodling's March 5 CYA talking points did indeed cut and paste the same language from the Lam rationale into the Iglesias excuse, Goodling missed one of the "her"s. Thus, at Bates AG1183, Goodling refers to Iglesias as "her." (Note that this is a different document than that linked above, but is in keeping with the subject of this post and is, apparently, the same doc referred to the the Wapo story)
justthetruth wrote on April 13, 2007 6:41 PM:Where is the proof of wrong doing? Everything so far is weakly circumstantial.
Albeit that wrong doing probably has occurred, no one will be prosecuted unless there is hard proof. None of this is enough.
Anonymous wrote on April 13, 2007 6:43 PM:Goodling is going to be the one to bring down these crooks. Just watch.
ahem wrote on April 13, 2007 6:47 PM:Your concern is noted, Monic--- I mean 'justtthetruth'.
EH wrote on April 13, 2007 6:48 PM:Where is the proof of wrong doing?
Are we in court yet? As for somewhat of an answer, how about "no questions seem to be getting answered." Maybe you could take the tack of the lesser commenters at justoneminute and say that it's nobody's business, but the DOJ doesn't seem to be saying that either. So, we don't have any answers and we don't have any "buzz off." What does that leave? An investigation.
santamonicamr wrote on April 13, 2007 7:05 PM:What an odd sentence that starts off with: "Regardless of what was done by the office in this area, she failed to tackle this responsibility as aggressively and as vigorously as we expected and needed her to do."
What does that mean? No matter how good a job her office was doing, she wasn't doing well? We're in such a rush to cobble together an alibi, we can't be bothered to note an internal contradictions?
adsosletter wrote on April 13, 2007 7:07 PM:"Christians have an obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus Christ--to have dominion in civil structures, just as in every other aspect of life and godliness [sic].
But it is dominion we are after. Not just a voice.
It is dominion we are after. Not just influence.
It is dominion we are after. Not just equal time.
It is dominion we are after.
World conquest. That's what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish. We must win the world with the power of the Gospel. And we must never settle for anything less... ."
"Thus, Christian politics has as its primary intent the conquest of the land--of men, families, institutions, bureaucracies, courts, and governments for the Kingdom of Christ."
The above quotes are from George Grant's ("The Changing of the Guard: Biblical Principles for Political Action" pp.50-51) as quoted in Michele Goldberg's ("Kingdom Coming" pp 40-41)
George Grant was D. James Kennedy's executive director of Coral Ridge Ministries, a mega-church based in Florida. Kennedy is a major Dominionist--it is quite safe to say that his philosophy is the same as that informing Monica Goodling and her ilk.
The foxes are definitely in the hen-house.
GO LEAHY!!!
elrapierwit wrote on April 13, 2007 7:10 PM:just the truth
Wrong is wrong, whether it is illegal or not. Remember, everything Hitler did in Germany was legal.
Would you have been waiting for proof?
lol, code word is expert
JEP wrote on April 13, 2007 7:10 PM:justdenythetruth at 6:41 PM
"None of this is enough"
LOL 707 LOL 707 L)L 707
I am still rolling around on the floor, laughing out loud, please somebody stop me!!!
Who are you, anyway? You should write cigarette commercials...
Is this Karl???
Jim Pharo wrote on April 13, 2007 7:36 PM:I don't see how anyone looking at these materials can fail to conclude that these people are simply lying about the reasons for sacking these people. And are probably more terrified of the truth coming out about the other 80+ USA's who were retained.
The Dems are a little rusty at this, so let me help them out: put an offer of immunity on the table for the first official who can tell the Congress the entire -- and truthful -- story.
The rest can hang.
RandyR wrote on April 13, 2007 8:23 PM:To: justthetruth
You ask, "What is the proof of wrong doing?"
The "wrong doing" is that it appears that the US Attorneys both prosecuted and failed to prosecute cases based on political party. In Carol Lam's case she prosecuted Republican a congressman and appointed CIA agents and was fired for it. In Iglesias case he wouldn't prosecute in a time frame to sway an election and he was also fired. An analysis of state and local prosecutions by US Attorneys have shown that they have been prosecuting Democrats at a rate of seven times greater than they have been prosecuting Republicans. And that's the wrong doing. Using the power of the Department of Justice to reduce the power of the people to elect their representation. That's a huge crime. And further they have used a political test to hire for career positions filling the ranks with not the best qualified but political hacks. This subverts the very nature of our country.
Denning wrote on April 13, 2007 8:35 PM:Not a good cut-and-paste job either.
Barbara wrote on April 13, 2007 8:49 PM:She still uses the proboun "her" in that paragraph for Iglesias.
Read again.
Heard Newt Gingrich on Tavis Smiley tonight and he got away with saying Clinton fired all 93 so what's the big deal? No response from Tavis Smiley. No mention of ANY of the stuff being reported here.
I've also heard Diane Rheam allowing some pretty stupid crap from her Republican guests lately. What's up at NPR?
Books Alive wrote on April 13, 2007 8:54 PM:Adsosletter mentions the Coral Ridge Ministries. Here's another example of how they work.
Chris Hedges, in his latest book, "American Fascists," describes attending a seminar at the Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church complex at Coral Ridge, Florida. "The five-day seminar is designed to train us to teach Evangelism Explosion. The program was begun by Kennedy in 1967 and is designed to train evangelists in the tactics and methods used to save souls for Christ." Then they turn to their workbooks (no kidding) and learn hands-on how to approach the customer and make the sale.
Taking over the US government department by department has got to be a real high for these zealots.
Books Alive wrote on April 13, 2007 8:58 PM:Barbara, same with Wolf Blitzer, in his segment with David Gergen. I sent in an objection to Gergen's glossing over the current events by saying there's "no underlying criminal event" as in Watergate.
Hah! Not one event, rather one continuous attempt to subvert the rule of law.
Al in Austex wrote on April 13, 2007 9:01 PM:So AHEM ,, maybe we shouldn't give any of these Dominionist Whack Jobs any immunity -since by now
adsosletter wrote on April 13, 2007 9:20 PM:I am pretty sure that every incriminating email from gwb.43 has been put into the Hill Staffers data base, even all the redacted stuff. Those "rumours on the internets electronic doggies have all been rounded up and put into the Leahey / Conyers OK Corral -Get yourself ringside seat for the Shoot Out !"
And Adsoslester re the Dominionist remember the Upton Sinclair quote "When fascism comes to the USA , it will be wrapped in our Flag & carrying a Bible "
Books Alive
Yeah, their approach to "sharing the Gospel" is an odd one. I actually have no problem with religious groups proselytizing: with their own money, on their own time.
It's the whole "seize all of the institutions of power and influence in the country for the sake of Christ" thing that gives me pause...and all in the name of a guy who told Pilate "My kingdom is NOT of THIS earth; if it were THEN would my followers fight for me...".
It takes some serious scripture twisting to justify what these folks are after. And besides, the issue is moot. The United States, as a political/civil entity, was designed as a secular government, despite what the likes of David Barton and his ilk would try to have us believe (and all-too many are buying his argument, despite the fact that honest historians can, and have, shredded it).
We were never meant to be an extension of the colonial Commonwealth of Massachusetts, in all its intolerant, witch-hanging, dissident-banishing, public-stocks-humiliation, forced-church-attending, heretic-hunting, glory.
I apologize for going off topic; not trying to hijack or disrupt the thread.
But its something we all need to be thinkin' about.
GO LEAHY!!!!!!!!!!
adsosletter wrote on April 13, 2007 9:38 PM:I hear ya' Al in Austex
That Nazi stuff from Germany in the 1930's looks so unbelievably outrageous to us, but it clearly resonated with a majority of the German people, at one level or another (Blood and Soil!).
Our own demagogues have to redefine our own cultural hot-buttons: flag, "patriotism", "bible", "mom & pop", "support the troops" etc. and brand people as "enemies" if they don't accept their definition of such.
Richard L. Adlof wrote on April 13, 2007 9:53 PM:Offer Monica immunity on anything and everything she speaks about under oath. If she does not name names or give details then she can still be nailed for conspiracy . . . Spell it out for her then let her spill it.
wls wrote on April 13, 2007 10:27 PM:Just a point of information for TPM -- the BP "Catch and Release" policy WAS a result of the policy in the SDCA to not prosecute illegal entry cases unless/until the defendant had numerous illegal entries and deports. I have seen it reported that the number was 13. So, when the BP caught an illegal alient, if that alien's A-File didn't show at least 12 prior arrests and deports, the alien was not held and referred for criminal prosecution, they were simply ticketed for administrative deportation proceedings.
Illegal Entry under 8 USC Sec. 1325 is a petty misdemeanor punishable by no more than 6 months for a first offense, and is a felony punishable by up to 2 years for every subsequent offense.
Now, the practical reality is that US Attorneys Offices would grind to a halt, and bring the district courts to a halt, if they filed a 1325 count against every illegal alient the BP arrested.
So, lets assume the BP could arrest 500 illegals on any given night on the border. Since 500 a day can't be prosecuted criminally, how do you exercise any prosecutorial discretion in selecting the ones that are approprite for criminal prosecution, and what do you do with the rest?
The USAttorney for the SD Calif. chose to prosecute those that had 10+ prior illegal entries, and to have the BP cite and release for deportation proceedings the rest.
So, contrary to the ignorance spewed forth here, one policy is the result of the other.
But both are the result of reality.
Dr. Wu wrote on April 13, 2007 10:38 PM:One's attorney rarely throws up his hands and says "Sir, you are correct. My client is a lying sack of shit." However, there must be some staff attorneys at DOJ who are seriously contemplating that route at the moment.
JEP wrote on April 13, 2007 11:18 PM:"What is the proof of wrong doing?"
two of the best proofs...
Sampson telling Waxman's committee that Gone-Zo actually DID know wazzup...
the line "very important to Harriett and Karl"
But we also know the hardest truth has been redacted or deleted, which in and of itself constitutes a crime.
And you really know when you got em' when they have to come up with a, apriori story to justify their mistakes...
JEP wrote on April 13, 2007 11:22 PM:Did Goodling "serve at the President's pleasure?"
Or was it Griffin's pleasure she served?
Looking at the docudump and her determined promotional work for Timmy Griffin, one might wonder...
Viva la Blogs!
Anonymous wrote on April 13, 2007 11:50 PM:It's all about rigging the 2008 election.
John Latimer wrote on April 13, 2007 11:54 PM:Didn't mean the post above to be so cryptic by not posting a name. I really do feel if they keep digging they'll find that 1 in 5 million e-mails that lays it on the line.
Buck wrote on April 14, 2007 12:27 AM:This will drag out till the next election. They've got the goods.
"Patience can do many things, have you ever tried it?"
..as my grandmother used to say.
Denning wrote on April 14, 2007 12:30 AM:How about asking Monica to hire a lawyer from her own law school to defend her, instead of the REAL lawyer she has now?
Peter Duffy wrote on April 14, 2007 9:02 AM:Monica is looking good sheltering behind the Fifth and cutting a deal, UNLESS,
Mrs Panstreppon wrote on April 14, 2007 10:22 AM:she is trumped by canny Karl copping a plea.!!!
Monica being granted immunity? We don't know the extent of her crimes yet. If Monica participated in a plan to deliberately hang corruption charges on Democrats so as to influence the outcome of elections, she is in a whole lot of trouble.
I'd advise Monica to start talking and talk fast if she wants to retain any prospects for a reduced prison sentence.
The voters spoke in November 2006 and they are not happy about government corruption, something Goodling ought to keep foremost in her mind.
Anonymous wrote on April 14, 2007 12:40 PM:It's still too early to grant Goodling immunity. With every passing day, more information is revealed without her.
trank wrote on April 14, 2007 12:47 PM:numerous confusing excuses is a common strategy- the uncertainty repulses authoritarians, who are addicted to certainty, so they gravitate toward the excuse that provides biggest dose of certainty- and are very practised at denial and hypocrisy.
Sharon A wrote on April 14, 2007 2:34 PM:ummm....about Monica.
She might be a faux martyr lookin' for a place to happen.
When today's Christians roll over other folks with their dogma, it's considered collateral damage of their holy crusade. When they're called to be accountable for their deeds, they pull out the Persecution card.
Karen Johnson wrote on April 14, 2007 3:13 PM:Don't you take the 5th AFTER you've been asked the questions? She hasn't even been asked to appear yet, or am I wrong about this part?
"It's all about rigging the 2008 election." And why shouldn't it be, they got away with stealing the previous two! I suspect THAT is what they are so desperately trying to cover.
Pinta wrote on April 14, 2007 4:03 PM:Isn't there a more recent picture to post? Out here in Panama, it looks like y'all are massacrin' virgins. I think not. But.....
Jerry Custer wrote on April 14, 2007 8:03 PM:Re the quote from A1 in Austex:
it's not from Upton Sinclair, but Sinclair Lewis, whose novel "It Can't Happen Here" is on my recommended reading list these days (along with "The True Beliver by the longshoreman-philosopher Eric Hoffer, as other correspondents have mentioned elsewhere).
SC: porter as in 'pret a porter,' ready-to-wear orange jumpsuits ... all the latest fashion in the West Wing, I hear
Al in Austex wrote on April 14, 2007 10:56 PM:Jerry Custer ,
Anonymous wrote on April 14, 2007 11:26 PM:Thank you , it is Sinclair Lewis who needs credit for that line about American fascism carrying a Bible.
And now for the bonus round whose the author of "For evil to triumph its only necessary for good men(& women) to do nothing.( I think it was Lord Acton)
But back to Goodling yes she and her ilk have been active down South for a long time. But what is breath taking is how remorseless they are about the means to their ends- they don't care who get hurts as long as we all "Come to Jesus".
They are all true believers ala Hoffer's definition - and we cannot afford to ignore or worse underestimate the danger they pose to our Republic.
One more for the congressional committees (and he sounds willing where they are concerned)
from Tony Mauro's 16-Apr-07 interview of Daniel J Metcalfe on law.com at http://www.law.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/View&c=LawArticle&cid=1176455062969&t=LawArticle
there in fact was a situation in which, rather than being asked to do something for purposes of a political agenda, I surely was asked to refrain from doing something quite ordinary for a reason that I later learned (and earlier had surmised) was indeed very much a "political" type of agenda. That situation does stand apart in my government experience, but I will refrain from saying anything more about it here, other than that it did occur during the early months of 2005
adsosletter wrote on April 14, 2007 11:30 PM:Al in Austex:
I do believe your quote is from Edmund Burke
:)
angry wrote on April 14, 2007 11:56 PM:You could be right, Pinta. Are you saying a virgin can't commit horrendous crimes in the name of a twisted biblical interpretation?
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