Comments (102)

Mrs Panstreppon wrote on June 18, 2007 12:51 PM:

"Democrats were tipped off to the use of the off the record email system from emails revealed during the Jack Abramoff and U.S. Attorney firings investigations."

The Democras and everyone else were tipped off to GWB43.com by the TPM Cafe's own Citizen 92 right here in the comments section of the TPM Muckraker.

After reading Citizen 92's comments, I checked Susan Ralston's emails and noticed the RNC email address.

I wouldn't be surprised if the ever diligent Citizen 92 tipped off CREW.

C 92? What say you?

Anonymous wrote on June 18, 2007 12:52 PM:

Those e-mails were serving at the pleasure of the president

Dave wrote on June 18, 2007 1:01 PM:

Impeachment by the Fall...The government is in shambles, Iraq is a mess, our military is broken. Unless the Repugs throw this guy out, the Republican party will not last the next election.

C 92 wrote on June 18, 2007 1:03 PM:

The inter-web works in mysterious ways, doesn't it. That's all I have to say about that.

But in the end, it was the DOJ's fault. Back in March, Bush was on a trip to South America, Alberto was under fire, and Bush publicly said that Gonzales needed to 'deal with it himself.'

Alberto's 'dealing with it' led to a document dump including the first public appearance of a gwb43.com e-mail.

Ever since then, the White House has first combed through everything before allowing a 'document dump.'

They only have themselves to blame.

bubba wrote on June 18, 2007 1:03 PM:

The 'rule of law' party.' Bwwwwaaaaahhhhaaaaaa!

krog wrote on June 18, 2007 1:04 PM:

Obviously, there is a need for legislation so that these corrupt practices will be forbidden by specific law.

Additionally, legal investigations need to be conducted in order to determine if illegal activities occurred that should be prosecuted.

A group of special prosecutors needs to be established. The Repubs squeal that Congressional investigations are political. Special prosecutors, headed perhaps by Fitzgerald, would help to prevent any more partisan attacks by Repub lawbreakers and their supporters.

Bring back the special prosecutors!!

Jay M wrote on June 18, 2007 1:07 PM:

What are the penalties enumerated in the Presidential Records Act? Given the suggestion that Rove, Taylor, and Jennings may have committed crimes by evading the Presidential Records Act (and possibly the Hatch Act), and officials at the RNC committed crimes by deleting the emails, why hasn't some maverick at the DOJ started an investigation? Is there really no one left to do this kind of work? Are they just going to drag their feet and follow in the footsteps of Waxman & Co.? Are there at long last NO honest men (or women) left in the Justice Department?

tbhull wrote on June 18, 2007 1:07 PM:

I would agree with Mr. Waxman. Now the question becomes what will Waxman and Congress do that could succeed in addressing BushCo's blatant disregard for any law that provides executive oversight.

Continuing to only cry, moan, publish fancily worded letters and hold soap opera like hearings with no real results will only make the situation worse and will continue to demonstrate the utter ineffectiveness of this Congress.

mbbsdphil wrote on June 18, 2007 1:08 PM:

What will Congress do now that it's uncovered extensive, prolonged and repeated violations of federal law? Go to the Wailing Wall and attack Iran? Moan on the presidential primary ciruit? Or prosecute?

If not the latter, Democrats had better make clear that it is because their Republican colleagues are unanimously against the rule of law and that their collective inaction is tantamount to obstructing justice. Otherwise, voters will assume there's not much difference between Democrats and Republicans, and their hoped for landslide in '08 won't be enough to fill a sandbox.

jolly ranchero wrote on June 18, 2007 1:10 PM:

I'm betting every single one of those 200,000+ emails falls under executive priveledge. Every one of them. Sean Hannity will likely tell me so.

mbbsdphil wrote on June 18, 2007 1:11 PM:

What will Congress do now that it's uncovered extensive, prolonged and repeated violations of federal law? Go to the Wailing Wall and attack Iran? Moan on the presidential primary ciruit? Or prosecute?

If not the latter, Democrats had better make clear that it is because their Republican colleagues are unanimously against the rule of law and that their collective inaction is tantamount to obstructing justice. Otherwise, voters will assume there's not much difference between Democrats and Republicans, and their hoped for landslide in '08 won't be enough to fill a sandbox.

krog wrote on June 18, 2007 1:12 PM:

Perhaps a RICO indictment of the RNC is in order. Could such a successful action result in the permanent dissolution of the RNC and imprisonment of those involved in a wide-ranging criminal conspiracy?

Again, the need for special prosecutors is paramount. Special prosecutors would remove Democratic lawmakers from the partisan squeals of Repigs about "partisanship." Special prosecutors ideally are not partisan, excepting Ken Starr and his ilk of course.

P J Evans wrote on June 18, 2007 1:16 PM:

Impeachment is sounding better and better. Too bad so many in Congress don't have the guts (or other parts) to do the right thing.

JohnHenryCouldHammer wrote on June 18, 2007 1:18 PM:

While we're investigating republican shenanigans, we need take every step to make sure our ethics practices are above reproach.

krog wrote on June 18, 2007 1:21 PM:

Congress can only investigate.

Bush and Gonzalez' Justice Department obviously will not prosecute. If they did prosecute, their conflicts of interest would prevent the appearance of impartiality.

Again, the only solution that satisfies the Constitutional requirement of equal justice for all citizens is: legislation that authorizes the impartial appointment of special prosecutors, plural intended.

If there is not legislation pending for authorizing the impartial appointment of special prosecutors, which legislators will step forward and introduce such legislation?

And when?

It should be done now, if there is not already introduced such legislation.

Now is the time to act on getting special prosecutors to look into "potential" law breaking by Republican officials.

Repigs would oppose such investigation only if they are trying to hide criminal conduct!

EasyRider wrote on June 18, 2007 1:21 PM:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/6/14/109/19612

Republicans want to obstruct Congress - Here is the remedy!
by MotleyPatriot [Subscribe]
Thu Jun 14, 2007 at 10:04:54 AM EST
Ladies and Gentlemen,

The Republicans, Attorney General Gonzales, the aides, the people who just "don't recall", have obstructed the hearings long enough!

I've heard "but what can we do?"... "but we are doing all we can!"... long enough!

I'm going to put this BS talking point of "congress is doing all it can" to rest right now; they aren't. The laws are clear, the procedures are vague at best, and the Democrats in Congress can be doing a lot more.

So, meet me after the fold.

theWalrus wrote on June 18, 2007 1:23 PM:

As far as they are concerned, the WH, the DOJ and all the other Bushie Loyalists consider themselves above the law.

Destruction of emails? Violations of the Hatch Act? Obstruction of Justice? Lying under oath? Anything they do or have done in the name of furthering The Party is justified and legal. They are truly deluded by this mass psychology and the ONLY way to stop it is by appointing Special Prosecutors and handing down indictments.

mike wrote on June 18, 2007 1:28 PM:

Impeach them now. How much more will it take?

gregor wrote on June 18, 2007 1:29 PM:

Dems would not and cannot do anything about any GOP leader worth a damn even if he raped a thirteen year old in the town green in front of a thousand people in broad daylight. Not even if the event was recorded and broadcast on all networks.

Dems would just lecture on hortatory subjunctive and other esotorica of the english grammar to please their mothers.

This liberal is very disappointed.

tbhull wrote on June 18, 2007 1:30 PM:

Given that Congress will face stiff resistance in getting DOJ off its apathetic and self-preserving ass to bring indictments on these matters, why doesn't Congress consider shutting off all DOJ funding?

Of course repubs would all scream and moan that the democrat controlled Congress is allowing drug dealers, tax cheats and others under federal indictment or about to be charged by US Attys to escape justice's consequences, the counter would be that DOJ cannot dispense any measure of meaningful justice so long as DOJ's own corruption goes unaddressed and unpunished.

Congress must remember where their real power lies and it is in the purse, not in bringing indictments.

Crust wrote on June 18, 2007 1:33 PM:

What about IM's? (i.e. "instant messages") We only seem to hear about emails, but IM's are often stored by various computer systems. And shouldn't they be stored to comply with the Presidential Records Act? In some industries, companies have been systematically storing their employees' IM's for years.

Dennis wrote on June 18, 2007 1:37 PM:

If any good has come out of the past six and one half years, it's the unprecendented exposure of just how corrupt our government is, especially at this time, the Republican party.

The sad thing is that so many conservative Americans, either out of personal ignorance or some fear of "guilt", or their fear of "disloyality" and "putting the country down", still cannot admit that.

You don't have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.

Anonymous wrote on June 18, 2007 1:40 PM:

And yet where's the public outrage? We're nothing but a nation of apathetic slaves. Anyone know when the next season of 24 comes out on DVD?

dm wrote on June 18, 2007 1:41 PM:

Art II S 3: "he shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed"

Mrs P wrote on June 18, 2007 1:41 PM:

C 92, That first doc dump was the best! I've always wondered if someone on the side of truth and justice put it together because it was so revealing.

electricphoto wrote on June 18, 2007 1:42 PM:

Those who allow this to go on without legal consequences are becoming the problem... watching every law on the books being broken and then watching Democrats enforce no punishment is sickening -- it's time to use the courts or what is left of them to see if we still have a functioning judiciary.

1oldlady wrote on June 18, 2007 1:42 PM:

a few points to jump at you...

1. Bush has stated "I don't use email"..

Oh, maybe thats because he used unofficial email address to conduct official business.

2. Last week, the white house counsel beefed up it legal team.

Yea, maybe because they knew of such data was going to be hitting the media and wanted to "again " cover their asses!

Anonymous wrote on June 18, 2007 1:48 PM:

welcome to the hunt club division of the "vault" Yale University.

They have all kinds of special privileges

Privilege - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A privilege—etymologically "private law" or law relating to a specific individual—is a special right or immunity granted by a government to a restricted ...

get my meaning?

those arent "lost" or deleted emails you better believe, ... instead they are just for those that later need to review them before postulating a new way of taking 'Risk" with what the feel is their elite devine right and futhermore their entitlement and birthright and we feel is our country and it's opportunity.

Time to ask them why we would disagree on the basics.

freedom isnt easy to come by and never was

servitude was always preferable to those who could pay for it

asking the country to pay for it's own chains ... uhhh

I'm ready to ask these questions of those who have no problem indicating they want me to pay to their extended benefit while shunning my responsibility to my own and to our society

against all enemies ... foreign and domestic

cervantes wrote on June 18, 2007 1:48 PM:

Yeah, this is so serious that the corporate media is completely ignoring the story.

Anonymous wrote on June 18, 2007 1:48 PM:

NEW DOCUMENT DUMP! at the house Jug. site

PBen wrote on June 18, 2007 1:51 PM:

Impeach - starting with Abu Gonzo.

That takes away the "executive privelege" storyline on the emails, if I'm understanding what I've heard correctly.

Once the ball gets rolling, believe me, they'll never get it stopped before the kingpins get knocked over too.

Anonymous wrote on June 18, 2007 1:56 PM:

Question, why does Bud Cummins work as an consult for a fuel company? Does he or does he not work for the DOJ?

In the current dock dump 6.14.07 there is an email with him stating his position as an consultant for a fuel company but using the title for him self as USDOJ?

Can anyone explain this!

ochreous wrote on June 18, 2007 2:06 PM:

I second the RICO comment. They should be treated like any other organized criminal organization and have their assets summarily confiscated by the government.

KilgoreTrout XL wrote on June 18, 2007 2:07 PM:

Electronic data is difficult to permenantly erase. Some would even say that a hard disk drive isn't completely formatted until you format it 15 to 20 times in a row.

Of course, the RNC may have done the next best thing: "Oops! we accidentally traveled to an active volcano and threw every RNC HDD in liquid magma. I don't recall why. Our bad, definitely."

Anonymous wrote on June 18, 2007 2:08 PM:

They've got all kinds of OUR money and resources to fight against this country and call us the "American Taliban".

that wont stop even if we said NO!

The money will be sent to Hallibuton, Dubia anyway.

Oh, and now Paraguay, that can be used to clear brush and test out new death squads and basically intimidate South America political leaders.

Bush aint done although we'd all like to think he's all done and we'd like to be done with that miserable stench he's left of american society and it's international reputation.

Our government under George H.W. Bush creamed the underclass for the rich interests that supported foreign (American Oil Corporations) in a brutal bombing and mowing down of economically suppressed areas of Panama, while using the excuse that they were serving an interrnational warrant for Noriega, for drug smuggling. George knew alot about that because he'd arranged for the first shipments of crack to be delivered to our urban centers to make some profit and buy some guns and replacement parts for Iran and to "kill some *iggars" and street trash here.

Watch Panama Deception if you can find it (the press quite effectively has suppressed it from being avaiable on DVD (awesome when you consider it's an Academy Award winning documentary from that year

too bad so sad

when Bush Sr says New World Order it's in a mocking way

He and the Jewish Mafia think they own this country

We have to sit around wondering which of these two is gonna screw the other one 1st

Anonymous wrote on June 18, 2007 2:17 PM:

Take a look at the attributes on page 5 of 45 of most recent document dump: Stripping out the US Atty/DoJ aspects, we're left with this: [ </o= /OU = /CN = /CN= ]

OU stands for DoJ. Google this, and you'll see more samples of the records: [ </o= /OU = /CN = /CN= DoJ ]

Compare it with this E-mail Archive:
[thelist] CN=Wendy Fite/OU=DCA/OU=AO/O=USCOURTS is out of the office.[thelist] CN=Wendy Fite/OU=DCA/OU=AO/O=USCOURTS is out of the office. Wendy_Fite@ao.uscourts.gov Wendy_Fite at ao.uscourts.gov Tue Nov 21 15:19:28 CST 2006 ...
lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20061120/186384.html

1. This tells us that the attributes can be cross indexed with common archiving systems. What methods has the DoJ and WH used to retrieve not the e-mails, but the _archive_ of the data; and where on the internet, behind which firewall, can this URL be found for this archive?

2. Has the WH/DoJ discussed the use of the attrirbutes on page 5 as it relates to the external archives kept of the communiations?

3. When the WH/DoJ says it has no e-mails, is it talking about the archives as well as they related to the attributes listed above?

4. What kind of e-mail archive lists does WH/DoJ keep, oustide e-mail systems, that are similar to this: [ lists.evolt.org/archive/Week-of-Mon-20061120/186384.html ]; has DoJ provided to the Congress samples of these weekly archives, as they are linked with the attributes on Page5; and are there any differences bewteen [a] what GOP/WH said was available; vs. [b] what was available in the archive; vs [c] what was available at the URL

Anonymous wrote on June 18, 2007 2:22 PM:

Bud Cummins Number Listed: 501 "831-6152" page 20 of 45; redacted on page 23 of 45

Anonymous wrote on June 18, 2007 2:27 PM:

31 of 51 shows the US Attorney Net. This is an important URL [ usanet.usa.doj.gov ], because Congerss can subpoena all records to find out which IP have hit the URL to determine:

A. Which RNC-related URl/websites/computers were access this site;

B. Which DoJ-related contractors/outside counsel were hitting the site;

C. Wich e-mail was sent via RNC servers _close_ to times that personnel at DoJ/WH/EOP/Outside counsel revivewed information attached to this US Atty website.

D. Identify the IP numbers of all personnel at DoJ, EOP, WW, OVP, and outside counsel who have hit the site; and thier other activities; then compare it to what they are contract for; and compare the differences.

Legalize wrote on June 18, 2007 2:28 PM:

The time for high-minded rhetoric from the Democrats is over. That ship has long since sailed. It is now time to determine what legal action shall be taken against those implicated in criminal behavior - in public, under oath, with a transcript. If thise Congress does not at least get the ball rollig in the direction of ACTUAL accountability for those at the top of the Bush criminal enterprise, what the hell is the point? If they do not stand up for the rule of law, what do we have?

denise k wrote on June 18, 2007 2:36 PM:

Like father like son [http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0NEW/is_1993_June_9/ai_14018367]

Kasta wrote on June 18, 2007 2:44 PM:

Imagine "Dick" Nixon ordering his staff to destroy all of the recordings......!

Anonymous wrote on June 18, 2007 2:50 PM:

denise k...

Wow! That is so scary! And that artical goes back over 10 years! That should be sent to Connors, because he was on that committee even back then, and it just might jolt his memory!

Jason wrote on June 18, 2007 3:06 PM:

"These violations could be the most serious breach of the Presidential Records Act in the 30-year history of the law."

AND YET I PREDICT NOTHING SUBSTANTIAL WILL BE DONE. NO JAIL TIME. Who said there are two different laws for America. One for the wealthy and powerful and one for the rest of us.

Anonymous wrote on June 18, 2007 3:11 PM:

Ms. Ralston stated that in 2001, Mr. Rove was asked to search his political computer in response to a request relating to an
23 See Bush Aides’ Use of GOP Email Probed, The Associated Press (Apr. 11, 2007).
24 The White House, Press Briefing by Dana Perino (Apr. 13, 2007).
25 Memorandum from Alberto Gonzales, Counsel to the President (Feb. 26, 2001) included within The White House, White House Staff Manual (Feb. 2001) (redacted copy provided to Committee on Oversight and Government Reform).
26 The White House, White House Staff Manual (Feb. 2001) (redacted copy provided to Committee on Oversight and Government Reform).
8 | INTERIM REPOR T: POSSIBLE VIOLATIONS OF PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS ACT
investigation of Enron. She testified that the
Below is a quote from the report on email's. Also, done by H. Waxman! So, here in California they new about the engery criss and the tie it had with the white house! IMPEACHMENT!!! Page 12/13

...White House Counsel’s office would have known about these searches “because all of the documents that we collected were then turned over to the White House Counsel’s office.”27 According to Ms. Ralston, this investigation was related to the Vice President’s energy task force and contacts with Enron.28
In addition, Ms. Ralston testified that Mr. Rove searched his RNC e-mail account in response to several subpoenas from Patrick Fitzgerald during the investigation of the...

1oldlady wrote on June 18, 2007 3:15 PM:

This post was piggy backed on the post above, how is that possible? I posted it under my user name?
------

Below is a quote from the report on email's. Also, done by H. Waxman! So, here in California they new about the engery criss and the tie it had with the white house! IMPEACHMENT!!! Page 12/13

...White House Counsel’s office would have known about these searches “because all of the documents that we collected were then turned over to the White House Counsel’s office.”27 According to Ms. Ralston, this investigation was related to the Vice President’s energy task force and contacts with Enron.28
In addition, Ms. Ralston testified that Mr. Rove searched his RNC e-mail account in response to several subpoenas from Patrick Fitzgerald during the investigation of the...

VJB wrote on June 18, 2007 3:17 PM:

How about estimating the number of deleted emails and getting a judgment fining the WH or RNC $1k apiece? Might produce a few more. I guess we can't really hope for the GOP to be outlawed the way the communists were in Russia for a while. A boy's gotta dream...

biltud wrote on June 18, 2007 3:20 PM:

"Are there at long last NO honest men (or women) left in the Justice Department?"

ding ding ding -- I believe we have a winner.

Wasn't this their idea all along?

DCB wrote on June 18, 2007 3:24 PM:

Tell me again why impeachment is off the table?

The clearest print cannot be read through a gold coin.

mikebee wrote on June 18, 2007 3:27 PM:

the smart people work hard to get the truth to keep themselves informed , but most people are lied too and brainwashed by the coporate media organizations who are so deep in bush's and cheney' pocket. their mouths are forever attached kissing their asses.
how can you expect things to get better when the outright lying goes on right now and tommorrow and in september etc.
These scum have sold out america ,its people, and our laws. in return they get monopolies, huge profits and unprecedented power to keep the lies rolling.
WHO LET THIS HAPPEN?
yeah us.

parrot wrote on June 18, 2007 3:29 PM:

Read the end of the executive summary link above (page 3). Looks like Bush-Cheney 04 campaign has refused to give the committee of Congress any information regarding who the emails were to and from and what their content might be. So, the Bush-Cheney campaign committee believes that it is above oversight by the US Congress? Hmm...wonder what those communications contain? Me too.

Mooser wrote on June 18, 2007 3:32 PM:

Impeachment by the Fall...The government is in shambles, Iraq is a mess, our military is broken. Unless the Repugs throw this guy out, the Republican party will not last the next election.

Posted by: Dave

You must be new around these United States. Yes, all those things have happened, but don't be too sure about where the blame will be placed. When the MSM acts as your personla publicity agency, for free, some amazing shifts in blame can be accomplished. Everything you mention will be the fault of the Democrats, and their allies, "the left" by election time.
Or, as the SC says: screw.

IBB wrote on June 18, 2007 3:37 PM:

This apparently happened with the implicit approval of the White House Counsel's Office (under Alberto Gonzales).

Funny, he says something different publicly:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=ikbenbangde

1oldlady wrote on June 18, 2007 3:37 PM:

The white house has been evacuated because of a bomb scare. in the white house press room!

Just in time for reporters to start asking questions!? or not!

bjobotts wrote on June 18, 2007 3:52 PM:

Congress can't have it both ways. They can't demand accountability and then take accountability off the table. The constitution has a clear mandate as to how to deal with this kind of an Administration to hold them accountable. When you remove that option then why should Bush and company worry about oversight? Pelosi already said congress was not going to do anything about it.
The corruption is overwhelming, it's everywhere, and it's running rampant. There has never been a time when impeachment was more called for than now.
A special prosecutor needs to be assigned and the RNC records need to be seized and their activities investigated. The corruption couldn't be more obvious.

The sad part is that Democrats will suffer more by not impeaching Bush/Cheney than Bush/Cheney will suffer from being impeached and indicted.

Pelosi will go down in history not for any of her accomplishments, but for the Speaker of the House who took impeachment off the table during the administration of the most corrupt and worst presidency in the history of our nation.

BTW...Shock and Awe has turned into the most Awful Shock...The "purge" has become the "Splurge"... and supporting the troops means protecting them from Bush.
I mention this because there were two reasons we elected a democratic majority...2 issues that trumped all others combined...1)stop Iraq-bring the troops home...and 2) end the corruption--impeach Bush/Cheney...(You see...we knew the corruption was there and rampant and we're still waiting for congress to do something, not just point at it).
So far it's 0-2.

Roger Mexico wrote on June 18, 2007 4:01 PM:

Impeach. Prosecute. Convict. Punish.

Sick of saying it.

Long Memory wrote on June 18, 2007 4:42 PM:

It ought to be the rule henceforth that when these White House activities are referred to that they be called "criminal activity," or something just has inflammatory. If the White House doesn't like it, then there's a sure way to prove that what they're doing is aboveboard. Release the material.

Otherwise, what is there to hide?

Ron Byers wrote on June 18, 2007 4:46 PM:

Since the repeal of the special prosecutor law, the AG, or his deputy, has to appoint any special prosecutor. Not going to happen.

The only arrow left in the quiver is to impeach Alberto Gonzales. That will allow the Congress to appoint a full team of people from within it's ranks to conduct the "prosecution." Lord knows there is plenty of evidence that the AG broke committed any number of high crimes.

steambomb wrote on June 18, 2007 5:16 PM:

Everything that we see and hear points to the creation of a dictatorship and a fascist/corporatist government.

steambomb wrote on June 18, 2007 5:16 PM:

Everything that we see and hear points to the creation of a dictatorship and a fascist/corporatist government. sleep

Disgusted! wrote on June 18, 2007 5:20 PM:

I have never been so disappointed in our government as I am at present. The Dems, the ones who are supposed to be the good guys, I feel like they've stabbed me in the back. They just aren't fighting hard enough for the things that matter to we the people- no health care reform, no going after the oil industry, caving into Bush on Iraq, pussyfooting around when it comes to attack Bush and his cronies for their crimes.......this nation needs a major enema and it ain't happening. I don't care if they don't get those things but if they care about them, if they care about us people who gave them money and put them in power, they will make them the core issues and put the Republicans on the defensive. But going on the offensive seems completely foreign to the Democrats. Don't ask for me anymore money Harry Reid. Not until you start fighting for we the people and tell the corporate interests to take a backseat. I expected you people to fight like hell and all I see is capitulation and half hearted rhetoric. You would think being caged up, being in the minority for so long would have pissed you people off. I guess in the old boys club of Washington no one ever gets angry. So damn depressing.

Powysian wrote on June 18, 2007 5:31 PM:

Many good points are being made here, including the urgent need to get impeachment back on the table where it has belonged for a long time. Too bad that included among these many worthy missives is one from an anti-Semitic bigot who calls himself "Kilgore Trout " and who debases the memory of the late Kurt Vonnegut by ranting that the country is being run by Bush and the "Jewish mafia." To anticipate any future claim that he isn't attacking all Jews, only the ones whose views he doesn't like, I will ask him here to explain why Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld et al are not similarly lumped into the "Christian mafia." If he replies that Bush and company aren't representative of all Christians, then I'll ask him why he considers neocons who happen to be Jewish deserving of being singled out on the basis of their religion while Bush and Cheney are not. Of course, that's the way bigots always operate, but it's a shame to see one of them polluting a liberal website in this way.

tekel wrote on June 18, 2007 5:35 PM:

Jay M: (paraphrased) "what are the criminal penalties for violating the Presidential Records Act?"

I was just asking myself that. And reading the PRA, there doesn't seem to be a section dealing with penalties, see

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode44/usc_sup_01_44_10_22.html

so I don't know the answer. Anybody else?

Anonymous wrote on June 18, 2007 5:40 PM:

Here is a DOJ page which lists all of the DOJ Court and USA nominations to date, with outcomes.
Nice place to look to see where the displaced USA's since 2001 have moved up to.

http://www.usdoj.gov/olp/nominations107.htm

heh..code word: smell

Anonymous wrote on June 18, 2007 5:51 PM:

to tekel...

check out this web site...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0NEW/is_1993_June_9/ai_14018367

drational wrote on June 18, 2007 6:02 PM:

Tim Griffin Held RNC account.
1/2 of his email addresses in the doc dump are redacted.
is this his RNC account, and was he still using it when acting USA in Arkansas, sending emails to Goodling and Sampson?

Anonymous wrote on June 18, 2007 6:25 PM:

to tekel...

ok, I found the case in which may answer your question.
-----------------
Scott Armstrong, et al., Plaintiffs, Executive Office of the President, et al., Defendants.

Civil Action No. 89-142 (CRR)

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

810 F. Supp. 335; 1993 U.S. Dist.

January 6, 1993, Decided
January 6, 1993, Filed

------------------

also,

Armstrong v. Bush, 139 F.R.D. 547 (D.D.C. 1991)

if you have access to lexisnexis you can find it there. good luck.

Anonymous wrote on June 18, 2007 6:33 PM:

Below are court cases that are regarding presidental records act From bush 1 going back to 1990. Interesting read if you are into this stuff!
good luck

139 F.R.D. 547, 551

Armstrong v. Bush, 288 U.S. App. D.C. 38
288 U.S. App. D.C. 38

Armstrong v. Executive Office of President, 810 F. Supp. 335

mo2 wrote on June 18, 2007 6:35 PM:

See The Gavel for interesting Susan Ralston testimony:
http://www.speaker.gov/blog/?p=494

Q Do you know what his personal e-maìl account address was?

A It was an AOL account. I don’t remember right now,

Q Do you know whether Ken Mehlman used a political e-mail account?

A You know. Karl also had a “Rove.com” e-mail address .

Q You are referrìng to a personal e-mail address?

A Well, it was — it wasn’t — I don’t know how you would classify it, but it was a “Rove.com” e-mail address. There were — I can’t remember when, but at some point his Rove. com e-mai ls all went to the same political account. So if you sent an account — if you sent an e-maìl to George W. Bush.com or if you sent an e-mail to him at Rove.com, it went to the same place.

Q Do you know why his e-mail was set up that way?

A I don’t.

Q Do you know whether he made any official communications over his Rove.com e-mail account?

A He may have, but I can’t think of — I mean, he may have, because he used it all the time.

See Ralston May 10 deposition in full:
http://oversight.house.gov/documents/20070618105351.pdf

gtash wrote on June 18, 2007 7:56 PM:

Waxman leads a committee ostensibly to consider how laws and regulations can be changed to work better. That's fine.

But who drags these Republican crooks, liars and evidence destroyers into court? It appears to me that laws were broken. Period.

If someone starts telling me , "oh well, it's just a misdemeanor" or some low order violation, that is beside the point. Misdemeanors are punished too, aren't they.

Throw the book at them even if it is a small book.

BC Expat wrote on June 18, 2007 8:07 PM:

Quote of the day -

Tony Snow commenting on the missing emails:

"This is an administration that is very careful about obeying the law. We take it seriously. The White House legal counsel's office takes it seriously."

(Please insert your own joke here.)

molly wrote on June 18, 2007 11:26 PM:

It is very discouraging to continue to see and hear how republicans break the law and get away with it. And for just about all the opposition party and it's spokes people to say impeachment is off the table. They should say,"There are two justice systems ...one for republicans and one for all the rest of us." The republicans if convicted only go to jail for a couple of years no matter how serious the crime. Poor people 3 strikes and you are out. Bad checks...life in prison. Republicans lose thousands of voter registrations or votes ...slap on the wrist. Move on. Our govt. is full of traitors who deserve life in prison because they are dangerous. Cheney, Bush and his father come to mind.

Anonymous wrote on June 18, 2007 11:28 PM:

tekel,

if there is no penalty listed for violating a federal law involving conduct of the executive, it would stand to reason that impeachment is the penalty.

little d wrote on June 18, 2007 11:29 PM:

tekel,

if there is no penalty listed for violating a federal law involving conduct of the executive, it would stand to reason that impeachment is the penalty.

JNagarya wrote on June 18, 2007 11:40 PM:

Posted by: Mrs Panstreppon
Date: June 18, 2007 12:51 PM

_A-L-L_ bashings of Democrats as "do nothing" are either by ignoramouses or pro-Bushit trolls.

Waxman is not working alone. Neither is Conyers. Neither is Leahey.

I'm tired of explaining that Congress knows more about Congress than those who bash Democrats instead of the foot-dragging Republicans.

Waxman isn't the only Democrat who is sweet.

SC = wheel. As in, That which goes around goes around. So sayeth all spokes.

JNagarya wrote on June 18, 2007 11:47 PM:

Impeachment by the Fall...The government is in shambles, Iraq is a mess, our military is broken. Unless the Repugs throw this guy out, the Republican party will not last the next election.

Posted by: Dave
Date: June 18, 2007 01:01 PM

Waxman (and Pelosi) has expressly siad: "It's only a matter of time." By September, Republicans will begin falling all over themselves to be on the right side the line _from_ Bushit.

Waxman also spoke of the 2009 elections as the "demise" of the Republican party.

I think those who put party before country, reducing all to relativism, nihilist assault on standards, are going to get a bracing/sobering factual kick in the teeth in summative response ot their insistence that reality is a fantasy.

SC = range. As in, "Old homie on the range".

JNagarya wrote on June 18, 2007 11:58 PM:

What are the penalties enumerated in the Presidential Records Act? Given the suggestion that Rove, Taylor, and Jennings may have committed crimes by evading the Presidential Records Act (and possibly the Hatch Act), and officials at the RNC committed crimes by deleting the emails, why hasn't some maverick at the DOJ started an investigation? Is there really no one left to do this kind of work? Are they just going to drag their feet and follow in the footsteps of Waxman & Co.? Are there at long last NO honest men (or women) left in the Justice Department?

Posted by: Jay M
Date: June 18, 2007 01:07 PM

You're a pro-Bushit troll. The law already exists, as Waxman made clear. And it isn't Waxman who is "behind the curve," but those you would hope to successfully distract from the facts.

Go back to the White House: We the people have you surrounded. No: we are not a divine right kingly "moat". We are democracy, which cannot exist without the rule of law.

JNagarya wrote on June 19, 2007 12:11 AM:

ALL --

Stop bashing Congress. Stop bashing the Democrats. The Democrats are presently thoe only ones showing that the wrong-doing is in the Executive branch/White House.

Or continue to be pro-Bushit trolls.

SC= paint. As in, Paint reality as reality, not as some bullshit idiotology which requires brainwashees bash anyone but those who are the actual criminals.

Reality is not a fantasy.

Mrs Panstreppon wrote on June 19, 2007 12:11 AM:

JNagarya@June 18, 2007 11:40 PM

Fuck you and your endless stream of stupid and boring posts that consist of copying someone's comment and then insulting the commenter.

If anyone here is a Bush troll, it is you. You can't possibly believe that you are saying anything of any consequence or of any interest to anyone.

JNagarya wrote on June 19, 2007 12:18 AM:

What will Congress do now that it's uncovered extensive, prolonged and repeated violations of federal law? Go to the Wailing Wall and attack Iran? Moan on the presidential primary ciruit? Or prosecute?

If not the latter, Democrats had better make clear that it is because their Republican colleagues are unanimously against the rule of law and that their collective inaction is tantamount to obstructing justice. Otherwise, voters will assume there's not much difference between Democrats and Republicans, and their hoped for landslide in '08 won't be enough to fill a sandbox.

Posted by: mbbsdphil
Date: June 18, 2007 01:08 PM

1. The foot-draggers are the Republicans.

2. You instead bash the Democrats.

3. You are a pro-Bushit troll.

SC = scale. As in, Do you work for scale, sucker?

JNagarya wrote on June 19, 2007 12:21 AM:

Impeachment is sounding better and better. Too bad so many in Congress don't have the guts (or other parts) to do the right thing.

Posted by: P J Evans
Date: June 18, 2007 01:16 PM

It isn't an issue of "guts". It is an issue of votes.

Because the foot-draggers are the Republicans.

So you bash the Democrats.

Because you are a pro-Bushit troll.

It's lazy to confrom. It requires effort to _T-H-I-N-K_.

JNagarya wrote on June 19, 2007 12:31 AM:

denise k...

Wow! That is so scary! And that artical goes back over 10 years! That should be sent to Connors, because he was on that committee even back then, and it just might jolt his memory!

Posted by:
Date: June 18, 2007 02:50 PM

His name is Conyers. Who isn't in touch?

How does it feel to be a pro-Bushit troll against your country?

SC = like. As in, Like, know what you're talking about before popping off.

JNagarya wrote on June 19, 2007 12:39 AM:

"Waxman leads a committee ostensibly to consider how laws and regulations can be changed to work better. That's fine.

But who drags these Republican crooks, liars and evidence destroyers into court? It appears to me that laws were broken. Period."

And, Mr. Certitude?

"If someone starts telling me , "oh well, it's just a misdemeanor" or some low order violation, that is beside the point. Misdemeanors are punished too, aren't they."

Make it up as you go along rather than know what's actually going on. That's intelligent -- not.

Stop smeaing in advance those who haven't yet not prosecuted wrongdoing.

Okay, jerk?

"Posted by: gtash
Date: June 18, 2007 07:56 PM"

ASSHOLE: "A system of laws, and not of men." -- John Adams.

We operate according to the rule of law. Not according to the "law" of Bushit.

You hate the Republicans because of the way they act. And you hate Democrats because they don't act like Republicans.

Let us know when you've fig'gered out how to make sense.

SC = moon. As in, Even the moon provides more ligt than your notion of sun.

JNagarya wrote on June 19, 2007 12:49 AM:

if there is no penalty listed for violating a federal law involving conduct of the executive, it would stand to reason that impeachment is the penalty.

Posted by: little d
Date: June 18, 2007 11:29 PM

A law which prohibits an act includes penalties for violating the prohibition.

Attend to the facts, instead of "thinking" on your own.

SC = summer. As in, There is no vacation from rule of law.

JNagarya wrote on June 19, 2007 1:09 AM:

It is very discouraging to continue to see and hear how republicans break the law and get away with it. And for just about all the opposition party and it's spokes people to say impeachment is off the table. They should say,"There are two justice systems ...one for republicans and one for all the rest of us." The republicans if convicted only go to jail for a couple of years no matter how serious the crime. Poor people 3 strikes and you are out. Bad checks...life in prison. Republicans lose thousands of voter registrations or votes ...slap on the wrist. Move on. Our govt. is full of traitors who deserve life in prison because they are dangerous. Cheney, Bush and his father come to mind.

Posted by: molly
Date: June 18, 2007 11:26 PM

The ultimate check on gov't is We the people. We the people initiate impeeacment, and persuade Congress.

But let's get down to your level of stupid:

Third in line for the presidency is the Speaker of the House. The Speaker of the House is Pelosi.

Obviously, therefore -- for anyone with any awareness of ethics -- Pelosi is the _last_ person who shouuld urge impeachment.

You can tink, or you can stupidly repeat what other assholes say.

SC = flag. As in, The flag of reason is being waved in your face. Are you at all paying attention _and_ engaging with that _critical thinking_?

Me_again wrote on June 19, 2007 5:19 AM:

"These violations "could be" the most serious breach of the Presidential Records Act in the 30-year history of the law."

Either this IS a breach of Presidential Records Act or it isn't---

I mean really, what is it with the "could be" stuff. Of course it's a breach and at any rate, it's like Sen. Leahy said - there should be some of those emails or some residual parts of emails left on some RNC server, somewhere, and if such email resides not in a Whitehouse server, but a an RNC server, it would seem to me that the Bushies could longer redacted whatever portions they want – and seeing as how the Whitehouse failed to follow the proper channels – WHY can't law officials impound the RNC servers RIGHT NOW, but of course, knowing our always FAR too late and slow to react Dem congress – those servers will have their hard drives completely wiped before Sen. Leahy or Rep. Waxman will actually do anything about it.

Since this was already news awhile back, and we've know for sometime that the Bushie were using the RNC for Whitehouse email, and the Dems have already given the Bushies plenty of time to destroy any and all of the evidence - it' typical Dem draging feet response. Better for Waxman and Leahy to play it save and not make waves. I really don't think those two congressman care about anything. They talk big and DO nothing.

Sen. Leahy said that losing email was like saying the "dog ate my homework" and THAN Leahy did nothing to follow through.

Concerned to say the least wrote on June 19, 2007 8:09 AM:

Although we have be able to prove time and time again of wrong doing by members of our current government, even the President.. what do you think will become of these new findings??? NOTHING! Because the decisions that are being made on Capitol Hill are being made by the "Good 'Ol Boy Network".

Take Karl Rove for example, if ANY other citizen were caught smuggling records or documents out of the National Archive we'd be currently living in the basement of Leavenworth. However, the entire thing is sweep under the rug and forgotten about.

This latest cover up is just one of a huge list that should have more than half of our current administration behind bars.

Look at how many people have either been sent to jail and are already out, or are currently going to jail for the CIA scandal. Everyone around the Vice President has been prosecuted, but yet we're still being led to believe that the Vice President didn't know anything about what was going on? P-l-e-a-s-e. Again, another perfect example of the "Good 'Ol Boy Network".

As a former active duty Marine that loves my country and everything that it stands for, seeing our countries good name being dug into the ground seriously makes me sick.

disposable email person wrote on June 19, 2007 8:30 AM:

Tomorrow will have some Senior White House Official saying it's no big deal, Fox will somehow manage to turn it into a negative for liberals, and Bush will laugh about it, the dems will bitch about it and do nothing and life will go on, just as it has for the other bagillion violations, crimes, and moral standards surrounding this administration which have come out in the past year.

Jenny
http://www.spaml.com

Bucketochicken wrote on June 19, 2007 10:07 AM:

So... we're definitely going to war with Iran then. Super.

JEP wrote on June 19, 2007 10:17 AM:

"Attend to the facts, instead of "thinking" on your own."

Is this guy a scientologist?

security keyword; "expert" ...how cosmic.

Irene wrote on June 19, 2007 10:21 AM:

White House seriously needs an effective email management solution. Ever wondered about how many emails does bill gates receive ? :-)

Irene
Spaml free disposable email addresses
http://www.spaml.com

Jane wrote on June 19, 2007 10:39 AM:

19 minute gap? That's chicken feed. How about the new and improved 19,000 email gap?

Billy Pilgrim wrote on June 19, 2007 11:29 AM:

Mrs P @June 19, 2007 12:11 AM

Thank you for stating perfectly what everyone at this site has been wanting to say.

For new TPM bloggers, you can more efficiently review the fine postings on this site by skipping over everything signed

JNagarya

victoria2dc wrote on June 19, 2007 12:11 PM:

Okay, so this is the tip of the iceberg concerning this administration's crimes. The question is (1) is this an impeachable offense; (2) can this "crime" be prosecuted, and if yes, then how?

How can the Justice Department investigate this when they are part of the problem?

Bindarra wrote on June 19, 2007 1:25 PM:

"These violations could be the most serious breach of the Presidential Records Act in the 30-year history of the law."

Then why haven't impeachment proceedings begun? This is a hell of a lot more serious than Clinton lying about a blowjob!

SC: pocket -- as in, out of pocket ...

fastfeat wrote on June 19, 2007 11:31 PM:

As Bob Dylan said: "Steal a little, they throw you in jail. Steal a lot, and they make you King..."

Anonymous wrote on June 20, 2007 1:57 AM:

Impeachment proceedings would of happened a long time ago if they ever planed to do anything to them all. This bunch has really made their own laws, and a majority of people like myself don't think that the USA has any intentions of ever stepping up to the plate, and saying... "Enough is enough, you are out of here!" None of these bad guys will be happy until the whole world hates our guts. God have mercy on the next President because he/she will I hope be the one to clean up after them. If not, the USA will be in the gutter quickly, and all Americans will be lowering their heads in shame for years to come. Thanks to the Bush Administration.

Gary Verostko wrote on June 20, 2007 9:26 AM:

The Bush library will be simple: an empty hard drive will suffice.

Gary Verostko wrote on June 20, 2007 9:26 AM:

The Bush library will be simple: an empty hard drive will suffice.

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