Comments (41)

Slim Pickins wrote on July 31, 2007 10:51 AM:

"narrowly crafted answers, while legalistic,... technically correct"?

again - a disgustingly low bar for behavior. this denies the entire issue of the ethics of a particular action and solely focuses on "criminal activity" as the only yardstick of behavior. i'm no old codger, but i remember a time when this wasn't the standard - or at the very least not acceptable for a public explanation.

i hope these people are hounded to the end of their days for their behavior. as for arlen “paper tiger” spector, forgive me if i don't take his tone very seriously. if a letter appears, it will be a carefully choreographed act, with WH complicity designed to obstruct any light being shed on these matters.

Troll Patrol wrote on July 31, 2007 10:54 AM:

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You can help. Read or contribute by clicking "Troll Patrol" and that will take you to the Cafe blog set up to understand, post, and analyze the thoughts of an anonymous tpm contributor.

Not off topic, as the DoJ, Gonzo-Lies fiasco seems to have been the source of this poster's comments.

For future reference, if it seems another troll has come to this site, post that for "Troll Patrol" and we will do our best to assist.

Seek wisdom. Strive to do good.

Punchy wrote on July 31, 2007 10:58 AM:

Come ON, y'all. It's Specter. I would bet my car and wife that Specter "will be satisfied" with the "answers and clarifications" that he recieved, and since it's all classified, none of us will ever know how Gonzo lied again to cover up his lies.

Dog and Pony are warming up for the show.

kbmcg wrote on July 31, 2007 11:03 AM:

I expect the letter to include more prevarication, and that it likely won't even satisfy Specter.

OleHippieChick wrote on July 31, 2007 11:06 AM:

Specter acts as if he's still the Cmtee chair. WTF, Leahy?

Drumalong wrote on July 31, 2007 11:06 AM:

I agree with Punchy. This is Specter we're talking about, after all. His guff has no gusto when it comes to standing tall to this administration.

Anonymous wrote on July 31, 2007 11:22 AM:

Am I reading this right, that the White House will be providing a letter detailing how Gonzales didn't lie?

How is that acceptable? Will it be one of their "setting the record straight" documents?

How do they know better than anyone else if Gonzales lied? And how is the White House's word even credible?

EH wrote on July 31, 2007 11:27 AM:

Thirding Punchy.

litigatormom wrote on July 31, 2007 11:29 AM:

The WH's word will indeed be credible enough for Specter. The WH will then point to Specter's pre-letter criticism of Gonzo, note that he's had a change of heart, and then condemn partisan Democrats for continuing a partisan witch-hunt.

This is really to fend off impeachment. The WH is desperately trying to prevent further defections from the GOP, and to bring those Goopers who have already defected back into the fold.

Arlen Specter is a shameless hack. Worse than Orrin Hatch. At least with him even the average person can tell that Hatch is a vacuous shill. Some people out there probably believe that Arlen Specter is a man of principle, and that if he changes his mind about Gonzo, they should too.

Ugh.

"pocket" as in "in the White House's pocket"

sanfelipe bob wrote on July 31, 2007 11:34 AM:

Arlen Specter is not the chairman of the committee so why is it that he is the one who is briefed??? This has a real stink about it.

bobh wrote on July 31, 2007 11:39 AM:

Fourthing Punchy.

Alguien wrote on July 31, 2007 11:41 AM:

The White house has repeatedly expressed FULL CONFIDENCE in Gonzo and Cheney said he is a "big fan".
What else do we need to hear?
My feeling is a much bigger fan will be needed soon to withstand all the s--t that has started to hit it...
I don't know if Specter can be trusted but lately he seems genuinely disgusted with Gonzo so I am hoping that by examining his own historic role in this mess he may realize that his usual permissiveness has allowed this criminal gang to assault the Constitution and the rule of law and ultimately will hurt the GOP. [Inshallah!]

Betty wrote on July 31, 2007 11:41 AM:

Why was Senator Leahy excluded from the briefing? Was he? Had he been already briefed? I know that republicans would rather ignore Senator Leahy's existence but should Arlen Spector have allowed his republican cohorts to show such disrespect to the Chairman?

Alguien wrote on July 31, 2007 11:42 AM:

The White house has repeatedly expressed FULL CONFIDENCE in Gonzo and Cheney said he is a "big fan".
What else do we need to hear?
My feeling is a much bigger fan will be needed soon to withstand all the s--t that has started to hit it...
I don't know if Specter can be trusted but lately he seems genuinely disgusted with Gonzo so I am hoping that by examining his own historic role in this mess he may realize that his usual permissiveness has allowed this criminal gang to assault the Constitution and the rule of law and ultimately will hurt the GOP. [Inshallah!]

Betty wrote on July 31, 2007 11:45 AM:

Why was Senator Leahy excluded from the briefing? Was he? Had he been already briefed? I know that republicans would rather ignore Senator Leahy's existence but should Arlen Spector have allowed his republican cohorts to show such disrespect to the Chairman?

Dennis wrote on July 31, 2007 11:49 AM:

I agree with sanfilepe bob, since when is Spector chairman of the committee?

Given his past behavior of protecting the Bush administration, I can think of two reasons for Spector's behavior; he's trying to protect the Republican party from further discredit, or, he will be "satisfied" with the answer that he gets from the Bush administration and will try to convience the committee to be satisfied, also.

And perhaps a third thought, if the democrats in particular are not satisfied, Specter will also call further inquiry a "witch hunt" or words to that effect.

You don't have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.

EdNSted wrote on July 31, 2007 11:55 AM:

My money goes with Punchy. There's just no big mystery here.

Anonymous wrote on July 31, 2007 11:58 AM:

Color me silly, but why is a minority member of a Democratic-controlled committee and Congress the conduit through which the executive branch communicates with its co-equal branch at the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue? If it's unofficial, it ain't news. If it's official business, it ain't communication unless it's sent to the guy or gal running the store. And the "mainstream" media calls the Democrats partisan.

DELBERT MATHANEY wrote on July 31, 2007 12:00 PM:

... IF they can knock down Gonzo, they CAN take the field. It would be great the have the term republicans fall into dis use, for the foreseeable atomic future.

midwesterner wrote on July 31, 2007 12:00 PM:

Arlen is a tease. OK, he uses papers instead of fans or veils. He never does do what he pretends he's gonna. Big tease.

Tross wrote on July 31, 2007 12:12 PM:

As usual, expect Specter to be satisfied by whatever the White House letter says. Then expect the White House to attack the perjury investigation as a "partisan witch hunt".

Specter is not to be trusted. Time and again he has carried this administration's water. This time will be no different.

Anna S. wrote on July 31, 2007 12:14 PM:

I'd be interested to know who the 'other senators' were who got briefed: who wants to bet they were all Republicans? The briefing sounds to me like an excuse to craft a strategic exit plan: how to get Gonzalez out of the mess he's talked himself into. The 'expected' letter will likely be a result of that briefing: a carefully worded exoneration that accuses the AG of excessive legalism, but not outright perjury.

Bet you Leahy isn't happy.

Anonymous wrote on July 31, 2007 12:16 PM:

CONGRESS HAS BUDGET LEVERAGE OVER PRESIDENT

Couple of things about this Specter Letter and the McConnel Briefing. What's happening is Congress is getting sand thrown in their face to dissuade Congress from cutting budgets _now_. Congress has the leverage: Until the President and AG cooperate (as opposed to privilege claims and delays in court), Congress needs to cut the funding. The longer the President, McConnel, and Gonzalez delay, the longer the President and his NSA-FISA contractors are _without money_.

Also, recall the lesson of the FISA briefings just after 2001: Members of Congress were not able to fully discuss the details with technical experts, legal counsel and others. Public needs to go to the Members of Congress and ask them whether there are any restrictions on who they could talk to, have at the meetings, or who they could consult with while they were getting the briefing from McConnel. it makes no sense to have NSA issue a "convincing" briefing that is something Members of Congress were not able to apply the lessons of the first botched NSA-FISA briefings.

Details:

1. Fiber Optics

Gonzalez and McConnel, when they're talking about data mining, are playing a game: They're pretending they're talking about one things; but they're _technically/legally_ referring to something else.

Gonzalez goal is to make the Committee believe that the AG, President, DoJ, and DoD "have something" that Congress "needs." The bait is the AG's confusion. The President wants Congress to believe that until the Congress gets _information_, the Congress is stuck with [a] rubber stamping; [b] unable to block the GOP; and [c] litigation. This is an illusion.

2. Turn it around and face reality.

A. Committee Mark Ups Give Congress Leverage

Learn the lesson of Murtha's budget cut of the DoD Congressional Liaison: Congress has the _one_ thing the President wants, needs, and cannot live without: Money. The Congress can zero-out funds. Regardless the GOP Filibuster, Amendments, Presidential veto, the Congress in committee can mark up bills. The President's veto of that marked up bill is meaningless: he still gets no money. The error is to pretend that the Presidents' budget has to be amended "down to zero"; no, it is' the opposite: it's a bottom-up document, that the Committees can zero out, and force the GOP to pass Amendments to add money back.

B. Other Program May Or May Not Be Relevant

When Gonzalez and McConnel are talking about "other programs" and "data mining" they're not necessarily referring to _lawful_ programs; nor are they talking about _civilian_ targets. They're mixing apples and oranges _deliberately_. There is open source information about the AT&T training to the DoD and contractors on fiber optic splitting. This is an undersea fiber optic tapping program; when Gonzalez/McConnel are talking about "data mining" they wants Congress to believe that this is something that he is hiding, and is targeting civilians or "not targeting" civilians; no, he could very well be referring to the undersea, DoD program of fiber optics, or the land based interception, or the satellite interception arms of this data mining.

Gonzalez could be hoping to make you believe that he's talking about something "you really need" by way of information; but he's actually talking about something else, which is classified, and you have not means to get details on. Don't take the bait. Focus on the money cutting first; then leave it to the President how _he_ comes into compliance to get what he wants: Money.

C. Issue Stop Work Orders Now

Again, Gonzalez/McConnel are attempting to make Congress believe that the Congress has to "wait for" Gonzalez/McConnel/President to "Clarify" things. No, it's the opposite: _Until_ the President, AG, Joint Staff, OVP provide Congress with the data, Congress needs to zero-out the budgets first. As long as the President, AG, and contractors stall, they will have no money. It's in the interests of the contractors to quickly resolve this issue, and get out of their stop work.
- - - -

3. Entities Subject to Audit

One of the problems has been to discover what the content of the delegated RNC e-mails is. There is a way to do this.

First, when the President audits a firm, he issues guidance. However, when the _real_ audit is different than the _procedures_, there is additional information provided of what to focus on.

Again, getting back to the AG argument: The Congress does not have to "wait" for the President to disclose these instructions: There is way to estimate the orders to the auditors of what they were supposed to ignore, focus on, not do, or skip over.

Here's how. Forget what may or may not happen in the future. Focus only on the known audits that the President has conducted. Look for the entities that the President _has_ audited. You'll want to find the common areas: Go back and revisit these independently, and so some interviews not of the auditors, but of the audit _target_: You're going to want to get a sense of what the President was focusing on.

Your job will be to do the following [a] compare the interview results of the audit target reports was audited; with [b] the audit procedures and requirements. Notice the patterns and inconsistencies: Where there is express direction to do one thing, but something else was done -- as measured by the visits to this historical audit targets -- then we' know the WH-EOP-OMB has issued guidance to not do things in GAGAS; or conversely, to focus on thing that should not have been.

Take that list, then start searching through the non-RNC databases for directions to the audit team leaders. This will form a generalized list of audit communications related to what OMB and the President wanted to emphasize.

This will give you the following:
A. Message traffic time and dates;
B. Subjects of the e-mails
C. The list of personnel involved
D. A generic list of policy memos you know to subsequently ask for

The key on this is not to lose the big picture: Whether the Congress is or is not aware of these entities; or whether they have or haven't been using them is meaningless. The issue is simple: Congress doesn't have to wait independently from _now going forward_ for the President to "turn something over". No, it goes back to the budget: Until the President turns over _what Congress can recreate_, the President gets no money.

IN the meantime. the Congress can identify the contractors who have received this audit guidance, and tell them: We want this information; if you don't give it to us, you get no money; and you're going to be an audit target. This can be done _now_; and this can be done on things that this President 2001-2007 has done. We don't need to wait for new things between 2007 and 2008.
Stop looking at the clock going forward. The argument of 'we're running out of time' is an illusion. That's the President's problem: The longer _he_ delays, the _longer_ he will be _without money_:
A. Cut the budget now
B. Go after the information _outside_ the OMB, WH, and RNC
C. Be direct with the auditing personnel, contractors, and others involved: We know how to get this; you cannot run out the clock; the longer you wait the more time you're going to have to spend rehiring software engineers, auditors, and professionals to get back up and running
D. The FEC data can be linked with this

- - - --

4. RNC Phone Roster: Another Means To Zero In on RNC E-mails

Recall the RNC demonstrations and the list of RNC phone numbers the secret service was excited about. There is a list floating around of all the RNC contractors, staff, and DOJ personnel assigned to the NY Hospital they were using as their headquarters. This list is important to get, and cross reference to the current DoJ Staff IP numbers, which will then cross index with the RNC e-mails, and the work flows showing whether DoJ Staff were or were not doing what the AG says they "did not have enough time" to look at.
The names of the list will then cross index with FEC data, home addresses, and the Instant Messaging systems DoJ Staff were using to discuss non official business with their spouses during official DoJ business. These lead to contracts which the President issued for overseas development.

SUMMARY

Understand Gonzalez and McConnel are stalling. The Congress has the leverage: It can go to the JCS _now_ and say: "Until you give us this information, you shall issue cease work orders. These contracts are illegal, _until_ you show through a _compliance audit_ that the activity fully complies with FISA."

The burden is not on Congress to prove there is evidence or illegal activity; the President has admitted that the illegal activity is continuing; or that he can "opt out" of the FISA court "any time" he chooses. This is not lawful.

Put the burden on the President to show he is in compliance with FISA; do not take the bait and believe that the DNC "cannot" block the GOP Senate. It's the opposite: The GOP Senate is meaningless. The Speaker in the House can, on her own, zero-out budgets with this assertion: "Mr. President, until you come into compliance, these contracts are under direction to cease work. No funds may be expended. They remain under investigation. If you would like to spend money or get additional appropriations, you need to cooperate with our oversight. Seeing no cooperation, we cannot put any money in these Contracts."

The President's problem is that if he delays litigation, he will be delaying the time when Congress will see, "Yes, these are lawful." The presumption of "lawfulness" has ended; the burden is now on the President to show these programs are lawful. Until he shows that, Congress needs to keep the funding turned off.

Keep in mind when there are "leaks" about data mining, the AG isn't telling you what "other" things he's referring to. He could be referring to something he's imagining; another classified activity; or something that is unrelated to what Congress is looking at, but is real. It doesn't matter. Congress can shut down funding now, as Murtha did with the Congressional Liaison office, and say: "Until you come clean, the money will not flow again. IN the meantime, this is going to be litigated and prosecuted: We will get the documents, even if there are not contractors getting paid; and you will stop hiding evidence of illegal activity."

If Congress will not do the above, then this is not a problem: But it is additional _evidence_ that Congress, knowing about these options, refuses to fully implement them to _comply_ with 5 USC 3331. Again, the analogy of a "Constitution with holes in it" isn't reality: That's what the President wants you to believe. The Constitution is safe. The holes in the Construing are _evidence_: Someone put them there; and there are communications between the RNC e-mails, phone numbers, and the DOJ Staff fully support efforts to hide the evidence to _how_ those holes got there. Again, do not believe the illusion that the Constitution is gone, has holes in it, or is in jeopardy: That is opposite of reality -- the "holes" are there because the President put them there; and the Congress did not oversee _how_ the President breached his oath and the Supreme Law. Holes are not problems, but _evidence_.

Mark F wrote on July 31, 2007 12:16 PM:

Senator Spineless is issuing empty threats and pretending to try to get at the truth again? Arlen Specter is either the world's most feckless politician or one of its greatest actors. Let me look into my crystal ball... Ah, I see Arlen Specter making an announcement. He's saying, "I believe the White House has answered the question to the committee's satisfaction. While not ideal, I believe the committee should consider this matter closed and move on to other business."

Something like that...

JoeW wrote on July 31, 2007 12:19 PM:

It's 12:17 and I've yet to see Specter wave the letter and announce to us that Abu told the truth all along, and that good golly, they're a swell bunch of fellows over at the White House.

Seriously. That's all I expect from Specter.

Billy Pilgrim wrote on July 31, 2007 12:20 PM:

Specter is just following the script he was given about Air Force One last week. The creep is nothing but a five dollar whore. He is a raging disgrace to the good citizens of Pennsylvania.

oldtree wrote on July 31, 2007 12:23 PM:

well, it's almost 12:30, and nothing. as usual

TheraP wrote on July 31, 2007 12:29 PM:

Thanks, anonymous (above). We'll do our best to read carefully and understand your latest comments. And add them to the "project."

drational wrote on July 31, 2007 12:56 PM:

Tony Snow Just announced that the letter will be coming from the DOJ later today.

He also stuck to his guns that Gonzales was honest and was testifying about the TSP.

still no acknowledgement of what exactly was controversial.

Jane wrote on July 31, 2007 1:03 PM:

Was there a transcript and were people under oath at this meeting that Spector and some other Senator attended? Spector is just going along with the Administrations demand for an off the record session.

Given the level and the nature of prevarication from Bushco, the Senators should demand a list of all the programs and their names and answers not specifying a program on the list treated a non-answers to the question.

moondancer wrote on July 31, 2007 1:08 PM:

After 20 plus yrs of arlen being my senator, trust me when I tell you he is the master of the moderate soundbite, but just another GOP lackey under the thumb of his handlers. He really is a worse whore than the regular wingnuts, in that they proudly "wear" their "fringe".

A despicable swine he is- now and always.

Mark Richards wrote on July 31, 2007 1:11 PM:

>>well, it's almost 12:30, and nothing. as usual

..and

>>Tony Snow Just announced that the letter will be
>>coming from the DOJ later today.

.. ==

yet another "F-You" from the bush maladministration.

SteveW wrote on July 31, 2007 1:14 PM:

It's clear Specter is playing another of his games with the Dems, media, and the American public. In the end, he always finds some accomodation for the loyal Bushies. In public Specter pretends he's on the side of truth, yet his ultimate behavior proves otherwise.

What exactly was that plane ride all about anyway? He and Rove were probably getting a good laugh, "Karl, I'll go back and fuck with the media while you and Addington write the letter we discussed earlier..." and a few knee slaps later and here we have the letter.

moondancer wrote on July 31, 2007 1:32 PM:

Remember, this is the same a-hole that gave us the "emergency" DOJ appt clause. His defense of that action? Pretty much the same as fredo, some underling slipped that in while I wasnt looking. Yaa, right. Junior staffers insert their own little riders all the time, cuz its no big deal.
If arlen told me the sun will rise in the east tomorrow, Id get on my knees and pray because the end would be nigh.

Anonymous wrote on July 31, 2007 1:33 PM:

Do you think the delay is necessary, or is it a tactic to keep the letter out of the news cycle (too late for evening news and morning paper coverage, old news by the next day)? This delay is probably brought to you by the same folks who thought up the Friday night document dump...

Austin Cooper wrote on July 31, 2007 1:59 PM:

Given that I don't trust Arlen "Magic Bullet" Specter, anyway -- I have to wonder how closely his 'demand' for a written response was coordinated with the White House.

Anonymous wrote on July 31, 2007 2:04 PM:

PRESIENT WILL IGNORE CONGRESS AS LONG AS CONGRESS REFUSES TO IMPOSE BUDGET CONSEQUENCES FOR HIS DEFIANCE

"Do you think the delay is necessary, or is it a tactic to keep the letter out of the news cycle (too late for evening news and morning paper coverage, old news by the next day)? This delay is probably brought to you by the same folks who thought up the Friday night document dump..."

Posted by:
Date: July 31, 2007 1:33 PM

-----------------

Yes, it's a delay. It's another reminder to Congress, "Until you cut our budget, we're not paying attention."

The only thing that will get their attention is if the Congress cuts the DOJ budget.

Why would DoJ AG do anything if the DNC, despite his non-cooperation, continues to rubber stamp budgets?

Stop waiting for the AG to "respond" and quit waiting for the President to "agree" and don't delay waiting for the court "outcome" to be clear. Cut the budget _now_; that way, all the delays go on the AG's back: His delays means he and the President are _that much longer_ without money.

jane wrote on July 31, 2007 2:51 PM:

Why not got the budget for Gonzales's office: he can't remember what he is not doing anyway. (snark)

Anonymous wrote on July 31, 2007 3:11 PM:

"gut the budget for Gonzales's office"

Posted by: jane
Date: July 31, 2007 2:51 PM

This assumes he knows where his office is. An AG who has no response, does not need a staff.

Murtha said the same thing about DoD Congressional Liasion. DoJ Staff funding is on the line. Cease work orders, program cancellations, termination; and contracting officers have things to do.

The more AG delays, the more he's going to have to spend time reprogramming funds, without the staff to do it. Doesn't he have a problem. Congress can make his life a living nightmare: Accerlate timelines, change budgets, reterminate contracts restarted; then when he breaches budgets or spends money he doesn't have -- because of _his_ oversight and accounting errors -- he's the one that's got the problem.

Doug wrote on July 31, 2007 5:04 PM:

Think about this. Gonzo resigns during the recess and Bush appoints a new Atty General so he doesn't have to get advice and conset. Bush gets his protection and we get another lacky. Why else all the delay going on?

bluestatedon wrote on August 1, 2007 11:07 AM:

This is all just an elaborate kabuki dance by Spector. As usual, too many otherwise-sensible people were taken in by Arlen's blowing sweet nothings in their ears, and we were treated to 24 hours full of tantalizing hints that he was going to drop some sort of "bombshell" on Bush.

As with all the other supposed "moderate" Republicans, Spector is actually more dangerous than the openly right-wing whackjob Rethuglicans because he simultaneously disarms Democrats with his empty words and gives Bush cover as a supposed "critic" of the administration.

At this point, anyone who believes a single word out of this old fraud's piehole is just like Charlie Brown mindlessly trusting Lucy to hold the football for his attempted kick. Some people never learn.