Comments (30)

GreatAuk wrote on October 15, 2007 12:41 PM:

"If the small arms fire came from insurgents, chances are you would find Kalashnikov rounds littering the square, and Blackwater guards aren't known to fire the inferior, non-U.S. weapon."

The AK (Kalashnikov) is widely believed to be the best assault rifle ever made. It's reliability and versatility make it far superior to the M-16.

The M-16, which has not been updated since Vietnam (unless you consider the deluge of nearly useless accessories and gadgets), frequently jams and requires tons of maintenance.

If you want to rake some important muck, check out why the pentagon is sending troops into battle with a weapon that has consistently failed the troops for fifty years. You'll find complacency (managing the existing manufacturing contracts is easier) and egotism (new fighter jet bids are cooler).

Markets work. There is a reason the AK is the most popular assault rifle in the world.

danger wrote on October 15, 2007 12:47 PM:

'His reply? It would probably take a "battalion" to thoroughly secure the square sufficiently for a thorough forensic search, so "the jury's still out." He told 60 Minutes' Lara Logan that neither the U.S. military nor the Iraqis performed a "C.S.I."-like investigation.'

This blurb is an interesting look inside Prince's mind. 'The jury [being] out' is akin to the same of Bush's quip on evolution - really a baseless statement but a devious parsing of words to maintain his own story.

But the CSI quote leads me to believe he's living in a delusional alternate reality, perhaps the same one 24 is in. The extremist Christianity already lead me to believe this but referencing a TV show in this matter leads me to believe that he's a megalomaniac with his head in the clouds.

The other story about Prince having replicas of weapons used to assassinate past Presidents was very eye opening too. I would hope the proper authorities would be keeping an eye on him, but even then he's still guarding his own investigations of his company with his own people.

Ferruge wrote on October 15, 2007 12:53 PM:

Even if what Prince is saying were true, the whole situation just goes to show that Blackwater is in way over their heads, and is only hurting matters.

RB-Chicago wrote on October 15, 2007 12:55 PM:

1) He hasn't SHOWN any proof...and,

2) He comes from the Cheeeeney school of truth so,

3) You decide...HA!

MORE LIES.....

tonyd wrote on October 15, 2007 1:03 PM:

Slightly off topic, but relevant nonetheless: I watched the 60 minutes interview last night and was intrigued by the size of the Blackwater USA headquarters. Just how big and how much munitions and war accessories does this "private" company posess?

I'm not a tin foil hat type, but this company appears to be a danger to our country.

Carolyn wrote on October 15, 2007 1:06 PM:

Scary. Gives full meaning to a wolf in sheep's clothing. He came across so rational last night on 60 Minutes. Of course he was not put to the test over the issue of our own military siding with Iraq. Since Ed Rather 60 MInutes has come across as wimps on occasion. (Actually even before.)
My fear is that the uninformed will believe him.

Anonymous wrote on October 15, 2007 1:20 PM:

There is NO evidence to support his claim. All evidence that is known supports the claim of homicide.
Prince is a very wealthy very dangerous fascist. He has great ambitions to become a force in domestic policy. I dont like mercenaries, but mercenaries that have political agenda? That is a militia. A militia that answers to a rabid GOP supporter

jimijazz wrote on October 15, 2007 1:38 PM:

Iraq and the U.S. are negotiating Blackwater's departure from Iraq at this particlular moment so Erik Prince and Blackwater's days are over. It's time for the spoiled little dutch boy to take his war toys and go home.

P J Evans wrote on October 15, 2007 1:38 PM:

So the investigators just ignored all the brass from Iraqi weapons? And never talked to anyone who saw Iraqis firing on them? And all those Iraqis shot from behind were running backwards toward Blackwater?

Thomas Williams wrote on October 15, 2007 2:02 PM:

If and when Blackwater is prosecuted the stooge Prince of mercenaries, and that is exactly what they are will have to answer a basic question, DID THE FOUNDING FATHERS LIKE MERCENARIES? he has some kind of learning disabilities in that he claims to have read the Declaration Of Independence but he di not by his own actions GET the part about the mercenaries being used by KING GEORGE III being a reason for SCREAMINGLY LIBERAL PROGRESSIVES that founded this nation to sever their ties to the KING AND CROWN OF the British empire and England.

I urge everyone I have a run in with to read that document and decide for themselves if the founders would have HUNG Bush/Cheney/perle/rumsfeld/wolfowitz/all republicans in the house and senate for their actions in this war and their violations of those Inalienable Rights of which they named just 3 while implying it was clear that the real number of those rights was unlimited.

Gitmo and the procedures and justifications used by the REPUGATHUG rapists of the Constitution would have PISSED OFF our founders, and those people were known for pouring boiling pitch over the enemies of democracy, freedom and the rule of law.

the violation of the rights of people to confront their accusers would have gotten the same as the above.

The abuses of the patriot act?
government being used against citizens?
government listing protestors on the TERRORISTS WATCH LIST?
warentless spying?
Privatizing government of the people?
interfering with a citizens right to vote?
ETC.ETC.ETC......

yep the founders would have some serios problems with the modern republican party, hell they (the founders) made it illegal to form a corporation for more than thirty years and such corporations were tightly regulated when they were allowed to form, they prefered locally owned and operated and they were totally committed to the family farmer and the rights of the people were supreme and any business that asserted that it was a 'person with rights' would have been laughed out of town and this country.

So when anyone thinks about high lord PRINCE leader of the republicans mercenary military wing of their party, the founders would have HUNG THESE BASTARDS WITH THEIR OWN ROPE.

centerfielder wrote on October 15, 2007 2:12 PM:

Have State and Blackwater been in charge of the vehicles in the interim?

If so, then they have had the opportunity to shoot holes in their own vehicles to manufacture evidence, so it would appear any forensic evidence, absent proof that the vehicles were secured quickly by an objective an unbiased third party, would be useless.

I don't trust a word coming out of Prince's or Condi's mouths and neither should anyone else.

roger wrote on October 15, 2007 2:29 PM:

That Prince has the freedom to spin like this is sorta sick. I can't imagine, say, John Gotti being given the spin treatment by the press. The man is an accessory to murder, and should be held accountable. As, definitely, the Blackwater mercs who fired on the Iraqis. Instead of soft soaping the president of Blackwater, where are their names? If this was a question of, say, black sports stars accused of murder, you know the media would be hot on the trail to deliver that kind of information.

If Blackwater isn't held accountable for murder, the Nisoor square massacre will go down as historically significant for two countries - for Iraq, which might have an incident to crystalize some kind of national unity around, and the U.S., for an incident symbolizing the decline into a shabby and lawless oligarchy.

jimijazz wrote on October 15, 2007 2:43 PM:

It's interesting you mention John Gotti because when you think about it Erik Prince is using the same tactics as the mob or organized crime. He's trying to portray himself as legitimate at the same time they're in the killing business.

Long Tooth wrote on October 15, 2007 2:50 PM:

"...your efforts are forever vain and impotent--doubly so from this mercenary aid on which you rely; for it irritates, to an incurable resentment, the minds of your enemies, to overrun them with the mercenary sons of rapine and plunder, devoting them and their possessions to the rapacity of hireling cruelty! If I were an American, as I am an Englishman, while a foreign troop was landed in my country, I never would lay down my arms--never--never--never".

Lord Chatham To Parliament 1777

SeeDee wrote on October 15, 2007 2:55 PM:

RE Prince, danger writes, "...he is a megalomaniac with his head in the clouds.."

Certainly he is a megalomaniac...but his head appears to be stuck firmly up his ass instead of in the clouds.

Why this concerted campaign NOW to paint his murderous gang of mercenaries as 'good protectors of American officials' that is going on right now?

The way things get spun around is amazing...the fact that it has now been proven that Bush/Cheney/Neocons' war against Iraq was AND IS a criminal enterprise in itself seems to have been lost somewhere.

What the hell makes it necessary to have a parade of 'American Officials' and politicians traipsing around Baghdad at all?

Blackwater (and the other so-called 'private-security' firms) should be dis-banded and those in Blackwater, including 'pretty-boy' Prince, who have ANY responsibility for the Nisoor Square massacre should be charged with mass murder and conspiracy to commit murder on a large scale.

Jeffrey Kilburn wrote on October 15, 2007 3:06 PM:

There are only a few details that significantly differentiate the Nisour Square tragedy from, say, something like the Boston Massacre. Congrats, Blackwater, you just made history as the Bad Guys. Thanks for the tarnish on our national identity.

May you be held responsible for it, just as anyone else would have to do, were they in your shoes.

jimijazz wrote on October 15, 2007 3:07 PM:

The state of Michigan had this group that called themselves the Michigan Militia. I'm sure some of you are aware of this. Nobody wanted these bozos around but yet they still created problems. Blackwater seems to me to be an extension of that only on a much bigger scale. I'm sure this is where Erik Prince got his fascist ideas for Blackwater.

Thomas Williams wrote on October 15, 2007 3:31 PM:

Long Tooth has made a great point and it should be a ringing bell in the minds of people here and abroad, no one likes the thugs those who are weak in mind, spirit, and the justness of their cause always rely upon to do their corrupt bidding.
Decent and just people refuse to do (service members have a right to refuse an order they find to be un-lawfull or immoral) those things which violate their beliefs (in the rule of law for most americans) and for which they can find no legal or moral jsutification.

and it is for the reason above that nothing will ever convince IRAQs peoples to stop fighting and resisting, for the president of the united states has imposed laws not of their making upon them and appointed mercenary forces to have unjust power over them while denying access to the rule of law and a right of redress of thier grievenceses.

Very few people (except for republicans of the repugathug variety) any where in the world (even here) would allow them selves to become subject to mercenaries even ones posing as security forces, no one likes or trusts those who kill for money and obey only their pay master of the moment.
Prince and his company will attack and betray the united states military if thats what they agree to do for the pay they are given.
They already seek to become above the law and exempted from prosecution in any and all jurisdictions (like Iraq,New Orleans, florida, north carolina, and now california illinois and probably every RED state with a RED REPUBLICAN GOVENOR.

Mercenaries always obey only one rule and thats the golden rule and he who has the gold can always command those who will take gold for killing. Wheather its the mob, triads, brute squads, or blackwater the rule of 'their' law is get the gold and do what your told to do for that gold as that is the only way for mercenaries to prove the value of their given word.

Hang them when you find them on the battle field and prosecute them when you find them in the bosom and pay of your nations leaders, (then you get those dirty scheaming leaders cause they used mercenaries in the first place.)

Nell wrote on October 15, 2007 3:43 PM:

Haul this lying little twerp's butt off to jail for lying to Congress.

The Kurds on top of the PUK headquarters saw it all; they specifically say that no one fired but Blackwater and that all the Blackwater vehicles left under their own power. See
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/13/world/middleeast/13blackwater.html?

Another lie: Prince testified in his first go-round that Andrew Moonen, the Blackwater guard who shot and killed the Iraqi VP's bodyguard in the Green Zone last Christmas eve, had had his security clearance taken away. Clearly, that's not so, since the guy went back to work within two months on a DoD contract in Kuwait.

JimBob wrote on October 15, 2007 3:52 PM:

I'm not saying I believe this or that, I wasn't there. But the pockmarks on the vehicles don't mean squat unless there's solid evidence that they weren't there before the incident in question. It's a reasonable supposition that not every time one of those vehicles comes under small-arms fire do they send it to the body shop to be cherried out.

JimBob wrote on October 15, 2007 3:56 PM:

Longtooth's point, while interesting historically (and a bit of a no-brainer) doesn't apply very well to today's situation. Blackwater really isn't a mercenary force in the accepted definition of the term. As Prince says, they are Americans working for America. In the Rev. War, Englishmen and Americans were hard to distinguish; in fact Americans as a people were metaphorically being born out of the souls of Englishmen. I don't think anyone is gonna say that Iraqis are tearing themselves away from a mother country to become Americans, nor the other way around with our soldiers. I haven't expressed this terribly well, but it really is a different variety of fruit.

Dee Illuminati wrote on October 15, 2007 4:30 PM:

Look at the LA Times article:

By Julian E. Barnes, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
October 15, 2007
WASHINGTON -- As the Bush administration deals with the fallout from the recent killings of civilians by private security firms in Iraq, some officials are asking whether the contractors could be considered unlawful combatants under international agreements.

As if the author had no idea that the
Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act of 2000 was in effect, YAWN!!!

I guess what irks me is that if the Neoconservatives had suggested: hey lets go camping, six years later they would be cold, without a tent, no matches, surrounded by angry natives, and an incredible shrinking dollar in their pocket. And their response to going camping ill equipped?

Blame Yogi Bear!

Talk about looking in the wrong area for a problem and a solution.

I don't fault Blackwater nearly as much as I do Rumsfeld and the Neocons.

matt rose wrote on October 15, 2007 4:56 PM:

Why has no-one asked Mr Prince why Blackwater was preventing the US Military from looking at the Blackwater vehicles which supposedly came under fire?

Mooser wrote on October 15, 2007 5:17 PM:

A militia that answers to a rabid GOP supporter...

Yes, and a couple of Federal agencies totalling several hundred thousand armed officers who only know one thing: "George Bush and his "War on Terror" got me my job, and it must never, never end!"
I'm talkin' about Homeland Security and a plethora of Federal security agencies besides. And then we get to the private contractors.

Just great.

Thomas Williams wrote on October 15, 2007 5:45 PM:

JimBob you can try that line on some republicans and maybe they will let it go by but the composite nature of the americans---
(being drawn from some two dozen european countries, africa, and native americans)
(read the list of participants of the boston tea party heavy on englishmen irishmen and scots and in a charter coloney area that was to be expected but how do you account for the freed slaves and european bond servants -both groups given english names- and even an indian was there)
---should be enough to convince even you that your analogy is wrong the colonies were under the authority of only two potential masters but even the charter colonies ultimatly came under the authority of the crown.
It was because so many english men did not support his war that he had to hire mercenaries,
JUST LIKE KING WANNABE GEORGE,
and in the end it means the same thing no matter which KING GEORGE it is they lose then and now.
Mercenaries found on the battle field should be executed no matter who hired them and I am sure more than a few american commanders on the ground in IRAQ would love to do exactly that even if they are american citizens they fight for pay and not their country.

Another issue about Prince and his employees: the recalls to duty that BUSH has used to force some 40,000 americans back into the service dont apply to Prince (navy SEAL under the age of 46) or those persons employed by his company, WHY ARE BLACKWATERS CEO AND HIS EMPLOYEES EXEMPT FROM RECALL ORDERS????????????

Are Blackwaters people considered supranationals? Why does every american but (blackwater americans) have to serve and be forced back into the military?

He lied when he said his company was'nt poaching the best and most expensivly trained from americas armed forces, cause on that day after his statement the exact thing he denied was found to be true and THEY HAD THE CIRCULAR to prove it, and no one has called for him to be charged with purgery and making false official statements (official because it was testimony), wait a minit the dems have said they want his statements investigated and him to be charged for LYING.

so if its a varity of fruit were talking about this mercenary thug lord Prince is a standard hand me down conservative fruitcake some (composite of anti-american idealogies claiming to be an american) that no one but repugathugs want or can stomach.

This issue makes me not very comprehensible cause we are talking about SCUMBAG MERCENARIES as if there is something good about them and considering the party and the idealogy of this man ................I have pain jabbing here and it makes me crazy (ala M. Kahn style hand to head gestures)just thinking about it.

parrot wrote on October 15, 2007 5:47 PM:

He didn't say whether Blackwater was fired upon before or AFTER Blackwater started firing at Iraqis. In the U.S., if someone starts firing their guns into a crowd, unprovoked, you, as a law abiding citizen, supposedly have the right to fire back at them to make them stop. Doesn't that hold true in Iraq too? Or does that "rule of fairplay" not apply there either?

Seriously, he's trying to head off the fact that some Iraqis might have fired back in self-defense IMO. Trying to head off that argument by shutting it down. Bloggers should call his bluff...if you are killing innocent people for the heck of it, those innocent people do have a right to defend themselves. Period.

5thEstate wrote on October 15, 2007 7:18 PM:

On the larger point: Prince claims Blackwater follows procedures and guidelines and runs 'a tight' ship, yet all he can offer in this very serious circumstance are assertions of opinion. In addition Blackwater's corporate response to the 'Fallujah Bridge Four'suggest a pattern of not only a denial of responsibility but also of callous obstructionism.

A minor point: The US M-4 (AR-15/M-16 variant) is not "inferior" to the AK-47 and as one commenter suggested the superior sales of the AK-47 have less to do with its efficacy than with its availability and lower price, and politics.

The British SAS, who get to pick any weapon they like, prefer the M-4 to the British SA-85 or indeed the AK-47, despite the fact that they tend to operate in areas where the AK is the opponents weapon and thus any discarded M-4 rounds would provide clear evidence of their activites.

It took several minor but essential modifications and several years for the M-16 to match the AK-47's reliability in the field. The AK fires a heavier and larger tound (7.62 mm) than the M-4/M-16 ( 5.56mm). The AK thus has greater penetration at the expense of effective range. The M4 has a significantly greater range, but less kinetic power overall. But an M-4 equipped soldier has the "reach" that renders the AK-equipped soldier dead or wounded when conditions allow. In closer quarters, say 300 yards or less, the relative kinetic power becomes somewhat moot. The M-4/M-16 then delivers a higher rate of fire and thanks to its lighter ammo, more accurately, than the AK-47. So the M-4 is not "inferior" to the AK.

The most relevant point though is the obvious forensic difference in the rounds and cartridges. Though a soldier or mercenary might carry an AK47 as a back-up or as a means to "plant" evidence by briefly using it, I doubt they would be so machiavelian in the Iraq environment.

bruce wrote on October 16, 2007 8:52 AM:

I am amazed a the lack of understanding people have of Blackwater and what their mission is. People who do not understand the job or who these people are, should do a better job of researching a topic before making uninformed comments about who Eric P. is and how BW carries out out their mission. Remember that Iraqi's are the worlds biggest liars, BW employees are decorated special forces and LE veterans, they wouldnt just fire into crowds because they feel like it. Think people.

dasher wrote on October 16, 2007 12:28 PM:

That's it, 'bruce'. Just keep those eyes closed and fingers stuffed firmly into ears. Hear no evil, see no evil.

It isn't just the Iraqis. ("world's biggest liars". Niiiccce. THAT'S the way to win hearts and minds!) Are the U.S. forces and the FBI that investigated this attack (not to mention all the previous ones) the "world's biggest liars", too?

bw wrote on October 17, 2007 9:35 PM:

i'm not an apologist for Blackwater, but has anyone considered the possibility that some of our MISSING WEAPONS were being used by insurgents during this incident? perhaps i'm mistaken, but it seems possible both sides used the same weaponry: if so, it wouldn't exactly be simple to tell how many parties were involved. just a thought.