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Reid Challenges GOP to Filibuster Anti-Immunity Provision
So here is where the FISA debate, which kicked off in earnest this morning, stands.
The first vote today will be on the Senate Judiciary Committee's version of the surveillance legislation, which contains no retroactive immunity for the telecoms who collaborated with the administration's warrantless wiretapping program. That will be at two o'clock this afternoon. There is no agreement that such a vote meet a 60-vote threshold, so when the Republicans move to block that bill, the vote will be held on a 50-vote threshold. If they win that vote, then the bill will revert back to the Senate intelligence committee's bill, which has a retroactive immunity provision.
After that will come a number of amendments, among them Sens. Chris Dodd's (D-CT) and Russ Feingold's (D-WI), which contains a provision to strip the immunity from the bill. Reid says that he supports such a bill. And he said today that Republicans will have to actually filibuster if they want to stop any of the amendments from getting a simple majority vote:
"As I have said before, if there are Senators who don't like these amendments and think they should be subjected to 60-vote thresholds, these Senators are going to have to engage in an old-fashioned filibuster. These amendments are by and large germane, and I believe they should be adopted if a majority of the Senate supports them."
You can Reid's entire statement here.
When Reid said something similar yesterday, a number of people interpreted it as in reference to Sen. Chris Dodd (D-CT) who has said that he would filibuster any bill that contained retroactive immunity. Now it seems as if that remark was meant for everyone.
As for what happens next, I think we'll just have to wait and see. We'll keep you updated.
Comments (34)
Dave wrote on January 24, 2008 12:24 PM:Chris Dodd is giving an amazing speech right now. I kind of was hoping to see him filibuster, but these new developments seem to be a better situation overall.
twirling fartknocker wrote on January 24, 2008 12:24 PM:woo-hoo. one for the good guys. let's hope this holds.
remember, what the immunity is for is to cover the tele-coms asses for PRE-9/11 spying
lestatdelc wrote on January 24, 2008 12:25 PM:Ahhhhh, yet Dodd is in fact having to be the one filibustering. Reid is playing chicken-shit CYA. We need real leadership of the Democratic caucus (in both chambers) not the crap we have had so far from Reid and Pelosi.
Derek wrote on January 24, 2008 12:26 PM:Holy crap he found his spine. This makes me pleasantly shocked and happy!
brian wrote on January 24, 2008 12:29 PM:Retroactive immunity for law-breaking corporations is a sick idea.
The companies broke the law on instructions from the government. Now the government is letting them off. Net effect : the government can break the law at any juncture.
Government eavesdropping is ALWAYS for snooping anyway. It is not for catching 'terrorists'. It is for listening on political adversaries.
JL wrote on January 24, 2008 12:29 PM:what if the amendment doesnt get a simple majority???
Atheinostic wrote on January 24, 2008 12:30 PM:Reid: "Republicans, I DARE YOU to filibuster this bill that you don't want. If you do, I'll give you everything you want. Take that, GOP!"
Wow, what a tough guy. I wonder what the GOP will do, seeing as how they filibustered virtually every single bill last year that they didn't like. He might even break out some tea analogies.
JanL wrote on January 24, 2008 12:34 PM:So, who is right, you or Glenn Greenwald at Salon? He has the opposite take on Reid's maneuvers. I don't trust Reid, given his pathetic record in caving to the GOP since the last election.
MNPundit wrote on January 24, 2008 12:35 PM:So convenient that target one is Dodd and the FISA bill.
stevief wrote on January 24, 2008 12:38 PM:This doesn't pass the smell test. Still, Dodd and others who wish to oppose this via filibuster need to do it "old school" whereas GOP has gotten a pass to filibuster wussy style.
I guess we'll see . . . .
Anon8 wrote on January 24, 2008 12:40 PM:Atheinostic: The difference, as I see it, is that this is legislation the Republicans and the administration want to see enacted in their own preferred form. If Senate Republicans filibuster this bill and Reid holds his ground, the net result is no FISA bill passes, and the surveillance program's authorization lapses. Despite the administration's dire warnings that this will precipitate another 9/11 with days if not minutes, I think removing the program's Congressional authorization would be a positive outcome to this legislative wrangling.
Joyce wrote on January 24, 2008 12:44 PM:If Democrats do not support Dodd, it's time to throw all the Democrats who support corporate interests out and elect those who aren't in corporate pockets.
This goes for Presidential candidates who have been purchased by corporate interests even when they "pretend" to care about the people.
Dale wrote on January 24, 2008 12:53 PM:Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...
"...which contains a provision to strip the immunity from the bill. Reid says that he supports such a bill."
If Reid REALLY supported removing Telecom Immunity, he would have put forward the other FISA bill which did not have immunity in it and then let required the 60 vote threshold to amend the original bill.
Which is exactly what he has NOT done, while also ignoring a Senator's Hold request (from his own party) AND making Dodd and Feingold actually filibuster if they want to prevent this White House Written and Supported bill to not pass.
Yeah, Reid is totally against telecom immunity.
Why were Democrats given control of Congress????
rockfish wrote on January 24, 2008 12:54 PM:If I understand this correctly, starting with the SJC bill (no immunity) the rethugs have to filibuster it. The debate then moves to the SIC bill (with immunity) and all amendments including Dodd/Feingold stripping immunity must be voted on. Finally, after all amendments are considered and voted on, if the SIC bill still has immunity in it, Dodd et al will have to filibuster it. At least if this reading is correct, it front loads all of the heavy lifting onto the rethugs and with a 50 vote threshold leaves open the possibility that we could get the better bill the first time. Let's hope
Atheinostic wrote on January 24, 2008 12:55 PM:Anon8: Letting the PAA simply expire would be a best case scenario, but it won't happen. Reid will bring the Intelligence Committee bill up if the Judiciary version gets filibustered by the GOP (which it will), forcing the Democrats to try and filibuster.
If Reid actually wanted to stop telco immunity, or if he was worth a flying f**k, he would force the Republicans to filibuster the Judiciary bill, and tell them it was either that bill or nothing.
spencer wrote on January 24, 2008 12:55 PM:Holy crap he found his spine.
I'll believe that when I see it. This isn't over yet.
wglad wrote on January 24, 2008 12:56 PM:Reid is getting better at leading the Senate. This is the way he should have handled all of the Dem bills to pull out of Iraq. If he had made the Republicans actually get up and filibuster, we might be exiting Iraq right now.
Atheinostic wrote on January 24, 2008 1:00 PM:Here is my illustration of how Reid's plan is designed to turn out:
http://www.dailyawesome.com/images/pussing%20out.jpg
Bruce Sims wrote on January 24, 2008 1:04 PM:It's way beyond time to call the Senators Hatch,Bond, Chambliss, Warner, and Burr what they really are and that is fascists.
el segundo wrote on January 24, 2008 1:04 PM:Watching Hatch on CSpan I always get this urge to run to the toilet and throw up.
They just can't seem to realize that they are the 'terrorist' whose target is the Constitution. These people don't have any respect even for the laws they pass; if they did they wouldn't make laws that change the definition of a 'person' in the U.S. Code on a sectional basis and ignore the construction definitions in Title 1.
Hatch is still running off his mouth raising the flag of fear; apparently he doesn't believe in the words of the Star Spangled Banner which says 'land of the free, home of the brave'.
here is how i see it first they give immunity and then they vote to try to strip it out?
NC-11-CD wrote on January 24, 2008 1:21 PM:this is just cowardly and a way of saying oh well we tried but giving the lawbreakers exactly what they want.
is this correct?
Guys,
I'd love it if TPM would check this out -- Aziz Huq at alternet says that there is no real sunset provision in the bill:
East-West wrote on January 24, 2008 1:36 PM:"Finally, some advocates and legislators have taken comfort in the law's six-month sunset provision. But this means that the act will be up for authorization in the middle of the presidential campaign, an environment in which the pressures to accede to Administration demands will be even higher than usual. And the law doesn't really sunset after six months: The provision is artfully drafted to allow the NSA to continue wielding its new surveillance powers for up to a year afterward."
- Aziz Huq
Okay, so while on break somebody sneaked some testosterone into Harry's warm milk. It's gonna wear off, you know.
oleeb wrote on January 24, 2008 1:44 PM:Sorry, but we don't have to wait and see. Reid is sinking the Judiciary Committee's bill and enabling the retroactive immunity for the criminals who spied on us all in flagrant violation of federal law. It is sickening.
Noam Sane wrote on January 24, 2008 1:47 PM:Joyce is right. If one of the Dem candidates want the support of the netroots, he or she had better get their ass back to DC and throw down.
Reid is a letdown. Pelosi too.
pasco wrote on January 24, 2008 1:57 PM:Don't get your hopes up. This is all a false by Reid. The stripping of immunity won't get 50 votes because all Repub will vote against it and Rockefeller and his ilk as well. The republicans will appear the good guys because they allow a simple up and down vote (since they win) and Dodd and the rest bad guys because they will have to filibuster the Intelligence Committee bill.
The Constitution will lose.
former dem wrote on January 24, 2008 2:18 PM:this is why I left the democratic party. while someone like ron paul has some goofy ideas, why do you think so many net types gravitated towards him from both parties - it is because both parties have been sellout our our civil liberties and the bill of rights and very few on either side have spoken up .
i wish chris dodd were our president though much more than ron paul - but i would take ron paul over nancy pelosi or harry reid
Official A wrote on January 24, 2008 2:26 PM:Will Harry may shut down the Senate again if the Phase II investigation doesn't begin in earnest by, say, mid-2006? That Harry is a real fighter!
Hey, Harry, I understand it's festival seating in the Senate today. Lieberman has his his blanekt out in the aisle and he's got a warm spot saved just for you.
bart wrote on January 24, 2008 2:28 PM:This is bamboozlement. Don't fall for it.
Bruce Sims wrote on January 24, 2008 2:34 PM:Senate just voted 60-34 to kill the Judiciary bill; as usual , the Nelsons, Landrieu,etc. voted with the Repubs; AND neither Obama nor Clinton were present; so neither of them will get my vote either in the primary or election as they didn't see fit to make an appearance on so important a subject.
Crust wrote on January 24, 2008 2:50 PM:Folks, this is pure Kabuki. If Reid really wanted to stop telco amnesty he would have respected Dodd's hold and brought the other version of the bill. Reid's just trying to have it both ways.
xargaw wrote on January 24, 2008 2:51 PM:I do not trust Harry Reid. He has repeatedly struck bad deals with the GOP capitualating on important issues. He is one of the weakest Majority Leaders in history. Here's hoping the courageous leadereship of Dodd and Feingold will prevail. Either one of the men are eminently more qualified to be and would be a superior Majority Leader. The Democratic Party will only make inroads into repairing this country if they show courage and persistence when it matters. Feingold has been a real hero in this regard.
Atheinostic wrote on January 24, 2008 2:51 PM:Democrats got elected into the majority for three key reasons: ending the war, ending warrantless wiretapping, and cracking down on corruption.
They have now failed on all three issues.
This is bad. I'm actually considering voting libertarian.
nellieh wrote on January 24, 2008 2:57 PM:Rockefeller is reading his and Sen. Bond's(R) ammendment to FISA. EVERYBODY has to be sleeping. Nobody is paying attention and it is putting me to sleep. He keeps going back to bi-partisanship which is a conception unknown to this congress. I can't understand why the Democrats don't just do what the Republicans did. Take it or leave it. They are more interested in comity than doing the njob.
Official A wrote on January 24, 2008 3:04 PM:Don't look now, but Reid and Lieberman are kissing.