Jeebus liam, come in off the ledge.

If Obama's candidacy was such a hot-house flower that open debate within his base would wither it on the vine, then it never had a chance.

You also might want to take a cue from Obama:

Democracy cannot exist without strong differences...So I appreciate the feedback through my.barackobama.com, and I look forward to continuing the conversation in the months and years to come. Together, we have a lot of work to do.

Dissent != Losing the Election.

Posted at July 3, 2008 6:20 PM in response to Obama Responds To FISA Group On His Web Site

Feh, non-issue. So he's saying he's not going to make a iron-bound commitment on the exact pace and timing of a withdrawal ahead of getting some intel briefings and maybe scheduling a couple meetings with, you know, generals and stuff.

The only traction this is going to get is by virtue of how breathlessly the cable news networks repeat the McCain camp's talking points. And even then, most everyone's going to look at what Obama's saying and think: 'that sounds reasonable.'

The McCain camp is obviously gearing up for the throw-it-all-at-the-wall-and-pray-enough-sticks phase of the election. Must be Karl's understudy--Schmidt--at the helm.

Posted at July 3, 2008 4:06 PM in response to Obama Suggests He May "Continue To Refine" Iraq Policies

What is this? Argument by innuendo?

Timelines describe events that occur over a period of time (often an extended period). If they've mostly been used on this site to track the abuses of Republicans, then I guess the application of one in this instance could tell you two things:

1) The events described occurred over an extended enough period of time that the editors thought a timeline would be useful for cataloguing the salient events/statements.

2) This is serious enough to want to get the facts straight.

Finally, a link to the Rezko timeline:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03/obama_rezko_purchase.php

Posted at July 3, 2008 2:13 PM in response to A Time-line Of Obama's Statements On FISA

Well, it's always easier to demonize the other side than actually engage them, and obviously they're people on both sides of the FISA issue making this same mistake.

Posted at July 3, 2008 12:37 PM in response to OMG We Might Disagree

As previously stated, I've never said that.

If others have accused you of that, I think it's regrettable, but until a poster chooses to tar my with their favorite brush, I give them the benefit of the doubt, as I've given you in the past.

Posted at July 2, 2008 3:21 PM in response to OMG We Might Disagree

Good post, Marquis. It is ironic to find people on the boards at TPM who equate less than complete support for everything Obama does as a betrayal of progressive values, and further accuse such dissenters of mindlessly following people like Kos and Greenwald.

In my few dissents I've never accused anyone of mindlessly following Obama and yet have been called the liberal version of a dittohead (and worse) for holding similar opinions as Kos, Greenwald, John Cole and others. The fear (often unfounded in my opinion) that dissent equals losing the presidency is a rhetorical maneuver that has been used by many posters to justify dismissing the views of the dissenting minority.

Posted at July 2, 2008 1:46 PM in response to OMG We Might Disagree

Look you're free to dispute it; I would expect people to do just that. But you're not offering much in a substantive counter point, other than one other poll that we don't seem to have access to, and a general argument that seems to hue to the CW that only lefties care about this issue.

As an aside, I'd just like to point out that if the CW was always right you and I wouldn't be debating about candidate Obama's stance--we'd be talking about candidate Clinton's stance.

Obviously nothing I'm going to say is going to sway you, but perhaps you can see how your stance (at least as you've presented it so far) is far from airtight.

Posted at June 28, 2008 9:55 PM in response to How Expedient Is Obama's Support for the FISA Bill? (redux)

No, I'm not saying all Republicans and I didn't mention "right leaning independents." I'm citing a poll that shows a majority of voters 61%(all voters not just Dems as you said up thread) oppose blanket warrants. This breaks down as follows along party lines:

Democrats (74%)
Independents (59%)
Republicans (52%)

I'm using this to suggest that the public at large doesn't see FISA as some sort of inside baseball concern that only lefties worry about, and that the public at large doesn't see the rule of law as interfering with national security. Yes, it is one poll but that's 100% more evidence than you've cited so far.

Posted at June 28, 2008 7:11 PM in response to How Expedient Is Obama's Support for the FISA Bill? (redux)

You're right that Hunter piece was a good summation, nice link.

Here's John Cole's take from over at Ballon Juice [link]:

Before, when he accepted the compromise but promised to fight for removing immunity, it was one thing. This is a total collapse and a rapid abandonment of principle. ... As to whether I like it, no. I could understand the politics of supporting the filibuster and voting for the bill, but I don’t understand or accept getting out in front of this piece of shit and giving us more of the same “You can’t handle the truth.” It is a craven capitulation, and failure to support the filibuster tomorrow really is deciding the politics of fear trump “change.” We all know there are threats- the question is one of constitutionality and the Imperial Presidency. We are against it.

So certinaly disappointing, but it just means that we'll have to keep a closer eye on him than we might have thought otherwise. Speaking of which, did you see the article Greg posted about the facebook group that has formed on myBarack.com to pressure Obama on FISA? It's an interesting application of the website to say the least.

Posted at June 28, 2008 4:32 PM in response to How Expedient Is Obama's Support for the FISA Bill? (redux)

It is naive and romantic to believe the country is ready for some enlightened awakening as all of us come together and agree on every issue all at once, but that isn't how shit happens in this country.

I agree that would be naive; luckily that's nothing like what I'm arguing about so I think we can just ignore that strawman.

Posted at June 28, 2008 1:37 PM in response to How Expedient Is Obama's Support for the FISA Bill? (redux)